auto ISO sucks with X cameras

Started May 3, 2014 | Discussions
justin_time Contributing Member • Posts: 787
Re: auto ISO sucks with X cameras

Ray Sachs wrote:

wblink wrote:

Christof21 wrote:

Fuji could have implemented the minimum shutter speed but still taking account the focal length (most camera makers do have this implementation !). Do you know any recent camera which has an implementation like Fuji ?? If so, please tell me.

Surprise:

When you choose minimum shutterspeed, Fuji just ignores it when you are at max iso .....

That's the same logic everyone uses - Fuji, Nikon, Ricoh, Samsung, probably others. It honors the minimum shutter speed as long as it possibly can, but when the light is such that you're pegged at the maximum ISO the user has defined and the minimum shutter speed is too fast to get enough light to the sensor, SOMETHING's gotta give. It either blows through the max ISO, reduces the minimum shutter speed, or underexposes the shot. Given that it's part of an auto-ISO setting (where I think it's reasonable for ISO to take priority), the shutter speed is what is compromised. That's the same logic I'd use when setting things manually, so it makes perfect sense to me...

How would you have them program it?

-Ray

You could have
 hard ISO/shutter speed limits which work as per current limits but add soft iso/shutter limits below these. Above soft iso/shutter limit you would increase Iso AND reduce shutterspeed - ie a compromise setting.

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KariP
KariP Veteran Member • Posts: 4,844
Do experts use auto-ISO ?

Christof21 wrote:

Hi,

This is not the first time I complain about it in some replies. The way it behaves by ignoring the 1/focale rule to set the shutter speed is a huge problem in my case.

The 1/focale rule was fine for me. I often switch lenses, use zooms and now I have to always keep an eye on the minimum shutter speed.

I admit that I am really surprised that this issue is not often mentioned.

......

or 3 fixes. An expert camera should have these issues fixed.

I can not call myself an expert ,  but i have owned several cameras since ...

I want to use fixed ISO so that i can expect some fixed  image quality.  Why and when are you using auto ISO ? Is it some special genre or something ?

-- hide signature --

Kari
SLR photography started in 1968, Canon DSLR cameras, lenses and now also a Fuji X-E1
60.21 N 24.86 E

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OP Christof21 Veteran Member • Posts: 3,265
Re: Do experts use auto-ISO ?

KariP wrote:

Christof21 wrote:

Hi,

This is not the first time I complain about it in some replies. The way it behaves by ignoring the 1/focale rule to set the shutter speed is a huge problem in my case.

The 1/focale rule was fine for me. I often switch lenses, use zooms and now I have to always keep an eye on the minimum shutter speed.

I admit that I am really surprised that this issue is not often mentioned.

......

or 3 fixes. An expert camera should have these issues fixed.

I can not call myself an expert , but i have owned several cameras since ...

I want to use fixed ISO so that i can expect some fixed image quality. Why and when are you using auto ISO ? Is it some special genre or something ?

-- hide signature --

Kari
SLR photography started in 1968, Canon DSLR cameras, lenses and now also a Fuji X-E1
60.21 N 24.86 E

I could ask the opposite question. Why do you fix ISO ??  But anyway, I don't want to start another debate between ISO shooters and auto iso shooters,  Yes, I mainly use auto iso except for some very specific cases.

bowportes Veteran Member • Posts: 3,486
Re: auto ISO sucks with X cameras

Jim in Hudson wrote:

Christof21 wrote:

Steve W wrote:

Christof21 wrote:

Christof21 wrote:

Hi,

This is not the first time I complain about it in some replies. The way it behaves by ignoring the 1/focale rule to set the shutter speed is a huge problem in my case.

The 1/focale rule was fine for me. I often switch lenses, use zooms and now I have to always keep an eye on the minimum shutter speed.

I admit that I am really surprised that this issue is not often mentioned.

Fuji could have implemented the minimum shutter speed but still taking account the focal length (most camera makers do have this implementation !). Do you know any recent camera which has an implementation like Fuji ?? If so, please tell me.

Others propose an improvement of this implementation (with a multiplying factor if you want to take into account OIS). But Fuji broke the rule of 1/focale. I don't call this an auto mode !!

All the Fuji x-cameras have the same "problem" ...

I think I can't go back and uninstall the last firmware on my x-e1. I don't have any solutions for my problem, this is a bad joke from Fuji.

Before, I was complaining also about auto iso when you set aperture and shutter speed. The ec is ignored. This is a mode I really like...

So auto-iso is really a problem for me and I hope Fuji will take seriously into account this in the future firmwares. Please improve auto Iso and solve these two issues !!!

If some of you know how to uninstall the last firmware, it could interest me.

Thanks and sorry for complaining. I really like my camera but it would be much better with just 2 or 3 fixes. An expert camera should have these issues fixed.

I am an "auto iso" shooter. The only exceptions are when I am fully manual (when I shoot with a tripod or with a flash).

I don't really care about the new ISO dial on x-t1... Almost useless for me or so rarely. But I really care about having a good auto-ISO implementation.

Other people shoot differently, it is their own personal preference. So far, in this thread, nobody could give me the name of a recent camera which did not have the option to take into account the focal.

Somebody suggested a good auto-ISO implementation. Everybody would be happy. This is the main conclusion.

The poll reveals very contrasty opinions about this topic, but for some people, it seems to be a very important feature. They should not be ignored. I really hope Fuji will listen to these users.

Not true. I said the the auto ISO on my Canon's have you specify minimum shutter speed. They don't use a 1/F rule from what I can tell unless there is another setting I'm missing.

I confirm the previous answer, this rule is of course not ignored by Nikon or Canon. I would not suspect Nikon or Canon, they have so many users, it would have been impossible for them to not take into account this rule !!

This is possible with Fuji, its offer is more "exotic" compared to the big ones. People are more forgiving, a bit too forgiving in my opinion. What are they waiting to solve the problem with the ec that is ignored when you set aperture and shutter speed ???? The ec is also ignored when you use focus lock AF-L) !!! I wish it could be a product more "finished" with modes that work as we expect them to work.

Agree, this is "broken" on the Fujifilm X system. Other camera makers allow + or - EC with a fixed shutter speed and aperture combined with auto ISO. It's not true manual mode anyway despite what my VF declares. Sure, if you fix all three: shutter, aperture, and ISO then EC becomes meaningless and shouldn't work. But not when ISO is in Auto.

It would be kind of meaningless on the XT-1 now. Why insist on spinning the dial on the right to change the setting of the dial on the left (ISO)? Just turn the ISO dial to watch the exposure change.

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Jim in Hudson Senior Member • Posts: 2,208
Re: auto ISO sucks with X cameras

bowportes wrote:

Jim in Hudson wrote:

Christof21 wrote:

Steve W wrote:

Christof21 wrote:

Christof21 wrote:

Hi,

This is not the first time I complain about it in some replies. The way it behaves by ignoring the 1/focale rule to set the shutter speed is a huge problem in my case.

The 1/focale rule was fine for me. I often switch lenses, use zooms and now I have to always keep an eye on the minimum shutter speed.

I admit that I am really surprised that this issue is not often mentioned.

Fuji could have implemented the minimum shutter speed but still taking account the focal length (most camera makers do have this implementation !). Do you know any recent camera which has an implementation like Fuji ?? If so, please tell me.

Others propose an improvement of this implementation (with a multiplying factor if you want to take into account OIS). But Fuji broke the rule of 1/focale. I don't call this an auto mode !!

All the Fuji x-cameras have the same "problem" ...

I think I can't go back and uninstall the last firmware on my x-e1. I don't have any solutions for my problem, this is a bad joke from Fuji.

Before, I was complaining also about auto iso when you set aperture and shutter speed. The ec is ignored. This is a mode I really like...

So auto-iso is really a problem for me and I hope Fuji will take seriously into account this in the future firmwares. Please improve auto Iso and solve these two issues !!!

If some of you know how to uninstall the last firmware, it could interest me.

Thanks and sorry for complaining. I really like my camera but it would be much better with just 2 or 3 fixes. An expert camera should have these issues fixed.

I am an "auto iso" shooter. The only exceptions are when I am fully manual (when I shoot with a tripod or with a flash).

I don't really care about the new ISO dial on x-t1... Almost useless for me or so rarely. But I really care about having a good auto-ISO implementation.

Other people shoot differently, it is their own personal preference. So far, in this thread, nobody could give me the name of a recent camera which did not have the option to take into account the focal.

Somebody suggested a good auto-ISO implementation. Everybody would be happy. This is the main conclusion.

The poll reveals very contrasty opinions about this topic, but for some people, it seems to be a very important feature. They should not be ignored. I really hope Fuji will listen to these users.

Not true. I said the the auto ISO on my Canon's have you specify minimum shutter speed. They don't use a 1/F rule from what I can tell unless there is another setting I'm missing.

I confirm the previous answer, this rule is of course not ignored by Nikon or Canon. I would not suspect Nikon or Canon, they have so many users, it would have been impossible for them to not take into account this rule !!

This is possible with Fuji, its offer is more "exotic" compared to the big ones. People are more forgiving, a bit too forgiving in my opinion. What are they waiting to solve the problem with the ec that is ignored when you set aperture and shutter speed ???? The ec is also ignored when you use focus lock AF-L) !!! I wish it could be a product more "finished" with modes that work as we expect them to work.

Agree, this is "broken" on the Fujifilm X system. Other camera makers allow + or - EC with a fixed shutter speed and aperture combined with auto ISO. It's not true manual mode anyway despite what my VF declares. Sure, if you fix all three: shutter, aperture, and ISO then EC becomes meaningless and shouldn't work. But not when ISO is in Auto.

It would be kind of meaningless on the XT-1 now. Why insist on spinning the dial on the right to change the setting of the dial on the left (ISO)? Just turn the ISO dial to watch the exposure change.

That's a valid point.  OTOH, the XT-1 is the only Fujifilm camera with an ISO dial (I think).  Why not have a solution that works on all of the X-System cameras in the same way?  Fixing shutter speed and aperture while allowing ISO to float is not an uncommon way to shoot -- sometimes referred to as TAv mode.  Allowing the EC dial to work in this mode would be functional across the whole product line (all cameras with an EC dial, that is).

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MayaTlab0
MayaTlab0 Senior Member • Posts: 2,366
Re: auto ISO sucks with X cameras

bowportes wrote:

It would be kind of meaningless on the XT-1 now. Why insist on spinning the dial on the right to change the setting of the dial on the left (ISO)? Just turn the ISO dial to watch the exposure change.

The whole point of aperture + shutter priority mode is precisely to let the auto exposure float with or without exposure compensation. Using the ISO dial, in other word being in full manual mode, prevents the exposure to float according to the meter.

Anthelix Regular Member • Posts: 478
Re: Do experts use auto-ISO ?

HI. I'd rather drop autofocus and matrix metering than auto Iso. Why? Because this is the 'dumbest' and then the most predictable one. It will always try to get the lowest Iso value.

I was very happy with the old Auto Iso implementation. It was perfect for non moving subjects. Not only for my comfort. When a subject doesn't move, it doesn't mean you have plenty of time. Light can change very quickly.
Of course camera shake depends on many parameters. But still one of them is focal length. This is why I would like to get back this 1/fl rule, this time with a selectable multiplier.

Many people wanted to manually set the minimum shutter speed. I'm happy they got it. I don't think this should be one group of users against another.

We could all benefit from an improved firmware mixing both the user-set minimum shutter speed for moving subjects and automatic minimum shutter speed for still subjects. The camera would not only be useable with a wider range of conditions. It would appeal to a larger crowd of users, which would mean more money for Fuji to develop lenses, improve firmwares etc.

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