SL1 vs EOS M for my daughter

Started Apr 28, 2014 | Discussions
Peter63 Senior Member • Posts: 1,503
Re: Unfortunately...

Abu Mahendra wrote:

Abu Mahendra wrote:

Abu Mahendra wrote:

Some pix from the M to thicken the plot...the first one would not be possible with the SL100 for it is at 11mm with IS.

The 11-22mm f4-5.6 EOSM lens isn't available here, but the EF-S 10-22mm f3.5-4.5 fits right on the SL1 (and the EOSM with the adapter).

Yes, but it is more expensive, heavier, bigger than the EF-M 11-22, and it lacks IS and STM.

I am very interested in the EF-M 11-22, it seems like it might help to overcome the speed limitation of the M.

Have you tried using BBF and just zone focusing?

Does the focus by wire and lack of distance scale make this method seem less useful?

Does the focus point change after turning it off and back on?

I have not zone focused the 11-22, but I do know that the hyperfocal distances wide at f4 and long at f5.6 are 1.6m and 2.6m, respectively. I also know that the corners are sharp wide open, and I have posted images here proving it, rather than asking people to take my words for it.

The focus point does not change when turning off and on the camera.

Thanks, the focus remaining constant when power is switched is useful. When shooting with an ultrawide, I am often shooting landscape and once set don't need to refocus much.

 Peter63's gear list:Peter63's gear list
Canon EOS M Canon EOS 6D Canon EOS Rebel SL1 Canon EOS M5 Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM +22 more
rjjr Forum Pro • Posts: 14,054
Re: I think, that would be me.
1

Abu Mahendra wrote:

There's wonderful no-bull, no-unicorns forum on audio called Hydrogenated Audio. One of the forum rules is that you have to put up or shut it. That is, if you assert something you have to provide verifiable evidence to support your spiel. How I wish this forum and forum users would adopt that attitude.

Actually, I don't have to "do" anything. I happen to have access to the three cameras to be able to make such an assessment...how about you? What real life usage comparisons have you done between those three cameras?

How about you "put up" your own real life usage comparison of the three cameras to support your claim that I'm "seeing things that don't exist"? Like you said..."You have to put up or shut it"

R2D2 Forum Pro • Posts: 17,548
Re: SL1 vs EOS M for my daughter

needmoretoys wrote:

R2D2 wrote:

needmoretoys wrote:

I don't think that the SL1 is any less capable than the T5i as a primary camera. They are both less capable than the 70D, but they are basically equal. Each has small advantages over the other.

On paper they may look quite similar, but that swivel screen really opens up new possibilities for shooting angles. I just love it, and now feel incredibly constrained when shooting a camera that doesn't have one (ie Canon 6D).

My FZ200 has a swivel screen and I never use it.

No worries. I can't force you to use the feature if you don't feel it's beneficial to you. However I certainly enjoy using the swivel screen (esp when shooting people) and also find that it really enhances the creative side of the photographic process with many kinds of shooting.

The pro cameras don't have a swivel screen and pro photographers somehow get great photos with a fixed screen.

Nonsense.  I have quite a few pro friends that I shoot with, and none of them ever uses that argument.  In fact, to a man (and women!) they very easily recognize the utility of this feature, especially when they see the photos I shoot.

Another feature that I take complete advantage of is the faster 5 FPS vs the 4 FPS in the SL1. In fact, one of the main reasons I never bought a Rebel previous to the T4i was the slow frame rate. I shoot bursts a lot, not only for BIFs and Sports, but also in low light (ala "Poor Man's Image Stabilization"). One FPS may not seem like a lot when simply looking at the spec, but in actual shooting it makes quite a difference (more so than going from say 7 FPS to 8).

If you need 5 fps to get a good photo while 4 fps doesn't do it then you are doing something wrong.

Sounds like you simply do not know the difference.  It's OK if you want to continue shooting at 4 FPS (doesn't affect me in the least).  I'll continue at 5 FPS and reap the additional benefits.  My experience is that 5 is better than 4, and my keeper rate reflects that.

What frame rate do you think Ansel Adams or NG photographers of 30 years ago used?

LOL.  By your very argument, everyone should still be shooting film then?!  Come on.

Technology can be used to help us become better photographers.  Just because you don't use a certain feature doesn't mean that it's not important to others.

And speaking of low light, when the built-in flash is needed, the 700D's is twice as powerful.

True, but if you want to get the best flash photos you will use an external flash.

True.  It's what I use and what I espouse.  But of course some folks still find the built-in flash very useful.  Can you imagine the uproar if Canon eliminated the built-in flash on all of their cameras?!!  It's still very popular even if you personally snub it.

By the way, how powerful is the built in flash on the 7D or 1Dx?

A lot less powerful than the one on the 700D that's for sure    .

Look, the OP's daughter does not fit into your Pro category (at least not yet), so don't push the "Pros don't need it so you don't either" argument on them.  It's a disservice.

A useful feature is a useful feature.  The smart people will recognize this and use it to the best of their ability.

These aren't merely cosmetic differences like the size of a grip or differences in control layout. I contend that these features (or lack of) will actually affect how and what someone shoots, and the results they will see.

I guess that's why pro photographers can't shoot great photos without the above T5i features.

Here's that same tired old argument again.  No need to get so defensive about your SL1.  The T5i is simply a more capable camera.  You made your choices, no prob.

In fact I might end up getting something like it at some point in the future (but only if it gets the new Dual Pixel sensor).  However even then it'll still be a "second" to my main DSLR.

Hey, you need only check my galleries (in my sig) to see where I'm coming from.

R2

-- hide signature --

Good judgment comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad judgment.
http://www.pbase.com/jekyll_and_hyde/galleries

 R2D2's gear list:R2D2's gear list
Sony RX100 II Canon EOS 70D Canon EOS M5
Abu Mahendra Veteran Member • Posts: 4,738
Re: I think, that would be me.

Abu Mahendra wrote:

There's wonderful no-bull, no-unicorns forum on audio called Hydrogenated Audio. One of the forum rules is that you have to put up or shut it. That is, if you assert something you have to provide verifiable evidence to support your spiel. How I wish this forum and forum users would adopt that attitude.

Actually, I don't have to "do" anything. I happen to have access to the three cameras to be able to make such an assessment...how about you? What real life usage comparisons have you done between those three cameras?

How about you "put up" your own real life usage comparison of the three cameras to support your claim that I'm "seeing things that don't exist"? Like you said..."You have to put up or shut it"

You were the one to make the assertion so the burden of proof is on you. Period.

 Abu Mahendra's gear list:Abu Mahendra's gear list
Canon EF 100mm f/2.8L Macro IS USM Canon EF 70-200mm f/4L IS USM Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II USM Canon EF 40mm f/2.8 STM Canon EF-M 22mm f/2 STM +3 more
Peter63 Senior Member • Posts: 1,503
Re: I think, that would be me.

If we are going the "no-bull" route, maybe knock-down, drag-out, did-too/did-not  arguments that have no bearing on the OP's question should be restricted to PM's.

Write it off to copy variation and let it go already. There are differences between the SL1 and M which actually merit discussion and might be helpful to someone.

 Peter63's gear list:Peter63's gear list
Canon EOS M Canon EOS 6D Canon EOS Rebel SL1 Canon EOS M5 Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM +22 more
Abu Mahendra Veteran Member • Posts: 4,738
Re: I think, that would be me.

If we are going the "no-bull" route, maybe knock-down, drag-out, did-too/did-not  arguments that have no bearing on the OP's question should be restricted to PM's.

Write it off to copy variation and let it go already. There are differences between the SL1 and M which actually merit discussion and might be helpful to someone.

Agree. But whenever possible they need to be supported with evidence stronger than he-said, she-said. I called him on it, and he's yet to provide a single shred of verifiable, replicable evidence to the initial that got us down this sorry path.

 Abu Mahendra's gear list:Abu Mahendra's gear list
Canon EF 100mm f/2.8L Macro IS USM Canon EF 70-200mm f/4L IS USM Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II USM Canon EF 40mm f/2.8 STM Canon EF-M 22mm f/2 STM +3 more
rjjr Forum Pro • Posts: 14,054
Wrong...

Abu Mahendra wrote:

You were the one to make the assertion so the burden of proof is on you. Period.

You made the assertion that I was "seeing things"  that shifts the burden of proof on you.  Period.

Your ad hominem BS means nothing compared to actual experience.

Why not try it your self and see what you come up with.  Sample variation is a very real phenomenon and most likely the reason for my results.

rjjr Forum Pro • Posts: 14,054
Re: I think, that would be me.

Peter63 wrote:

Write it off to copy variation and let it go already.

Exactly.

rjjr Forum Pro • Posts: 14,054
Re: I think, that would be me.

Abu Mahendra wrote:

Agree. But whenever possible they need to be supported with evidence stronger than he-said, she-said. I called him on it, and he's yet to provide a single shred of verifiable, replicable evidence to the initial that got us down this sorry path.

You put us on this "sorry path" with your snarky, ad hominem BS in defense of your favorite widget. And I already stated in my original post on this part of the topic that posting the samples is not possible be cause I knew someone would pull that kind of nonsense. Congratulations, you were that someone.

Try it yourself and see what you come up with.

45trekker Forum Member • Posts: 81
Re: Good point...

I have a 600D t3i? and more recently bought an EOS-M as a travel camera. I now leave a telezoom on the SLR and use the EOS M for most shots.
Regarding flash the Eos m and all the recent Rebels can control an ETTL or manual slave flash or flashes with ratio control. This works beautifully on both of my cameras with a cheap Yongnuo 565EX. I think I read that the SL1 is the exception and is incapable of slave flash control.

 45trekker's gear list:45trekker's gear list
Canon EOS M Canon EOS M3 Canon EOS M6 Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM +5 more
tonywong Regular Member • Posts: 292
Re: SL1 vs EOS M for my daughter

GadgetNeil wrote:

I wonder what views there are on this:

I have a Canon 60D and several lenses (ultrawide angle, macro, zoom telephoto, lensbaby), and I do photography purely as a hobby. My daughter just graduated from university, and when asked if there was something she would like as a graduation present, she said "an SLR camera". She has a point and shoot, but has played with my camera, and would like the creative options of an SLR, probably when she is traveling, or for general use.

She is petite, with small hands, so I was thinking that the SL1 would be great for her, and if she had a Canon dSLR, we can share lenses. But then she asked about mirrorless cameras, and I gather the EOS M has a similar APS-C sensor, so would give her similar picture quality, and the controls of an SLR. Any thoughts on the benefits of the SL1 vs the EOS M? Or for that matter, it looks like the T5i is similar in cost to the SL1, so is it a better option?

I would go for the SL1 or T5i over the EOS M. I got the EOS M a few weeks ago and just picked up a SL1 to test. No experience on the T5i, though, my next step up is a 7D.

Your daughter is interested in an SLR, and having lens compatibility with your 60D is a huge plus. EOS M autofocus is just too pokey to make it a primary camera, but you could get away with it if you really wanted the compactness of the M over the SLRs.

Depends on what she wants to shoot but the SL1 or T5i will be a good starter camera for her. Both are good choices but if she was going to get a T5i, I'd look for a better deal on a T4i, since the T5i doesn't add very much according to DPr:

The Canon EOS 700D / Rebel T5i is the company's latest addition to its novice-oriented 'Rebel' series. With more than two decades of continuous success in its film and digital incarnations, these little SLRs have been improved and refined to the point that Canon's biggest challenge seems to be finding new ways to distinguish its updated models. Place the new EOS 700D / Rebel T5i alongside its predecessor the EOS 650D and the differences are so minimal to be of little real importance.

  • Real-time preview of Creative Filters in Live View mode
  • Redesigned new mode dial that turns 360 degrees
  • New 'upmarket' textured body finish.
 tonywong's gear list:tonywong's gear list
Panasonic FZ1000 Canon EOS 300D Nikon D300 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH1 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH2 +114 more
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads