Cactus RF60 HSS

Started Apr 23, 2014 | Discussions
ktownbill Senior Member • Posts: 2,191
Cactus RF60 HSS
1

Has anybody used the Cactus RF60's for HSS?

From what I understand, you have to use multiple flashes set to fire in sequence by setting progressively longer trigger delays on each flash. A most interesting approach to HSS that eliminates the power-loss normally associated with HSS. The RF60 has user-settable delay function in millisecond increments.

Interestingly for me, this is exactly how I wanted to do HSS with my multiple Vivitar 285's. I was going to trigger 3 of them in sequence using a programmable logic controller. At $85 for each flash this was a no-brainer solution for affordable HSS with no power loss.

I do see a disadvantage to the Cactus HSS and that is it has to be in optical mode to use HSS. I see that as a deal-killer. C'mon Cactus, if you are reading this, give us something more useful.

The idea of using multiple flashes in sequence for full-power HSS is most appealing to me.

Side note: The Cactus V6 RF transceiver is slated for an early May release. It's claim to fame is it works across all brands. The RF60 is also backwards compatible with the V5 controller.

A 4-pack of RF60's is $539. They function as a controller also.

http://www.cactus-image.com/feature.html (RF60 reviews)

-- hide signature --

Bill

Brian Hursey Junior Member • Posts: 27
Re: Cactus RF60 HSS

I talked to them about radio hss. Issue is it is either they make it a ttl trigger brand specific and throw out everything else, or keep it the way it is. As long as one of the flashes sees the ttl pre signal it passes hss to all of the rest of the flashes via radio. The thing is the camera has to think it sees a ttl flash to go into hss mode. Then the RF60 sees the hss pre flash and uses that signal to trigger hss. I slaved mine of of a ttl flash in my softbox using a yn622c. Although in bright sun if it is not able to see the signal i could see where it could be a problem. I am seeing if there is a way to use the v6 to mass the signal that way you could put the v6 closer to the hss ttl flash. It still is an intresting concept. I got a little carried away with my testing. The RF60s are the top row of flashes. https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7358/13022083514_0a0cc604e4_b.jpg

OP ktownbill Senior Member • Posts: 2,191
Re: Cactus RF60 HSS

Brian Hursey wrote:

I talked to them about radio hss. Issue is it is either they make it a ttl trigger brand specific and throw out everything else, or keep it the way it is. As long as one of the flashes sees the ttl pre signal it passes hss to all of the rest of the flashes via radio. The thing is the camera has to think it sees a ttl flash to go into hss mode. Then the RF60 sees the hss pre flash and uses that signal to trigger hss. I slaved mine of of a ttl flash in my softbox using a yn622c. Although in bright sun if it is not able to see the signal i could see where it could be a problem. I am seeing if there is a way to use the v6 to mass the signal that way you could put the v6 closer to the hss ttl flash. It still is an intresting concept. I got a little carried away with my testing. The RF60s are the top row of flashes. https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7358/13022083514_0a0cc604e4_b.jpg

Brian, thank you for sharing this information. I like your set-up using a remote flash to trigger the RF60's into HSS mode.

I think the various articles are misleading readers into thinking that you can do HSS with just a single RF60. I'm guessing that it takes 3 RF60's to achieve sufficient burn-time to effect HSS or can you do it with just 2 units?

Why doesn't Cactus use an outboard module that plugs into the flash allowing for RF enabled HSS?  If only the engineers were photographers too!

-- hide signature --

Bill

Brian Hursey Junior Member • Posts: 27
Re: Cactus RF60 HSS

ktownbill wrote:

Brian Hursey wrote:

I talked to them about radio hss. Issue is it is either they make it a ttl trigger brand specific and throw out everything else, or keep it the way it is. As long as one of the flashes sees the ttl pre signal it passes hss to all of the rest of the flashes via radio. The thing is the camera has to think it sees a ttl flash to go into hss mode. Then the RF60 sees the hss pre flash and uses that signal to trigger hss. I slaved mine of of a ttl flash in my softbox using a yn622c. Although in bright sun if it is not able to see the signal i could see where it could be a problem. I am seeing if there is a way to use the v6 to mass the signal that way you could put the v6 closer to the hss ttl flash. It still is an intresting concept. I got a little carried away with my testing. The RF60s are the top row of flashes. https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7358/13022083514_0a0cc604e4_b.jpg

Brian, thank you for sharing this information. I like your set-up using a remote flash to trigger the RF60's into HSS mode.

I think the various articles are misleading readers into thinking that you can do HSS with just a single RF60. I'm guessing that it takes 3 RF60's to achieve sufficient burn-time to effect HSS or can you do it with just 2 units?

Why doesn't Cactus use an outboard module that plugs into the flash allowing for RF enabled HSS? If only the engineers were photographers too!

You can do HSS with just one RF60 however it has to see the has pre flash from a HSS flash, AKA an on camera hss ttl flash, or one on a hss trigger.  So for example:

Setup A: Canon 580EXII on Canon 60D in hss mode ->  rf60 optical slave in HSS mode.  If the RF60 sees the ttl flash it will go into hss sympathy mode.

Setup B: YN622C on Canon 60d -> yn622c off camera with Canon 580EXII -> rf60 optical slave in hss mode.

When the rf60 sees the hss pre flash it switches into hss mode, which does the same as standard ttl flashes firing fast pulses of light to cover the frame. It is not a hyper sync type of burn in.

Im a tester We talked about the HSS option adding to the Cactus v6. The issue is the flash trigger would have to actually truly be ttl protocol to allow the camera to go into auto fp mode. By moving to ttl you would basically throwing out all of RF60 and v6's features, and backwards compatibility and so on and just moving to a standard brand specific ttl system.  The RF60 and v6 are as brand agnostic as they can be. You can not break out just the hss portion out of the protocol. Also most of cactus engineers are photographers.

OP ktownbill Senior Member • Posts: 2,191
Re: Cactus RF60 HSS

Brian Hursey wrote:

ktownbill wrote:

Brian Hursey wrote:

I talked to them about radio hss. Issue is it is either they make it a ttl trigger brand specific and throw out everything else, or keep it the way it is. As long as one of the flashes sees the ttl pre signal it passes hss to all of the rest of the flashes via radio. The thing is the camera has to think it sees a ttl flash to go into hss mode. Then the RF60 sees the hss pre flash and uses that signal to trigger hss. I slaved mine of of a ttl flash in my softbox using a yn622c. Although in bright sun if it is not able to see the signal i could see where it could be a problem. I am seeing if there is a way to use the v6 to mass the signal that way you could put the v6 closer to the hss ttl flash. It still is an intresting concept. I got a little carried away with my testing. The RF60s are the top row of flashes. https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7358/13022083514_0a0cc604e4_b.jpg

Brian, thank you for sharing this information. I like your set-up using a remote flash to trigger the RF60's into HSS mode.

I think the various articles are misleading readers into thinking that you can do HSS with just a single RF60. I'm guessing that it takes 3 RF60's to achieve sufficient burn-time to effect HSS or can you do it with just 2 units?

Why doesn't Cactus use an outboard module that plugs into the flash allowing for RF enabled HSS? If only the engineers were photographers too!

You can do HSS with just one RF60 however it has to see the has pre flash from a HSS flash, AKA an on camera hss ttl flash, or one on a hss trigger. So for example:

Setup A: Canon 580EXII on Canon 60D in hss mode -> rf60 optical slave in HSS mode. If the RF60 sees the ttl flash it will go into hss sympathy mode.

Setup B: YN622C on Canon 60d -> yn622c off camera with Canon 580EXII -> rf60 optical slave in hss mode.

When the rf60 sees the hss pre flash it switches into hss mode, which does the same as standard ttl flashes firing fast pulses of light to cover the frame. It is not a hyper sync type of burn in.

Im a tester We talked about the HSS option adding to the Cactus v6. The issue is the flash trigger would have to actually truly be ttl protocol to allow the camera to go into auto fp mode. By moving to ttl you would basically throwing out all of RF60 and v6's features, and backwards compatibility and so on and just moving to a standard brand specific ttl system. The RF60 and v6 are as brand agnostic as they can be. You can not break out just the hss portion out of the protocol. Also most of cactus engineers are photographers.

Brian, thank you for clarifying that issue for me and any readers that I led astray. I got my mis-information from Gadget Infinity and MPX when I inquired about hss functionality.

Can multiple MP60's be fired sequentially using the built-in user-settable delay feature to accomplish HSS?  (The idea being to retain full-power flash bursts.)

-- hide signature --

Bill

Brian Hursey Junior Member • Posts: 27
Re: Cactus RF60 HSS
1

ktownbill wrote:

Brian Hursey wrote:

ktownbill wrote:

Brian Hursey wrote:

I talked to them about radio hss. Issue is it is either they make it a ttl trigger brand specific and throw out everything else, or keep it the way it is. As long as one of the flashes sees the ttl pre signal it passes hss to all of the rest of the flashes via radio. The thing is the camera has to think it sees a ttl flash to go into hss mode. Then the RF60 sees the hss pre flash and uses that signal to trigger hss. I slaved mine of of a ttl flash in my softbox using a yn622c. Although in bright sun if it is not able to see the signal i could see where it could be a problem. I am seeing if there is a way to use the v6 to mass the signal that way you could put the v6 closer to the hss ttl flash. It still is an intresting concept. I got a little carried away with my testing. The RF60s are the top row of flashes. https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7358/13022083514_0a0cc604e4_b.jpg

Brian, thank you for sharing this information. I like your set-up using a remote flash to trigger the RF60's into HSS mode.

I think the various articles are misleading readers into thinking that you can do HSS with just a single RF60. I'm guessing that it takes 3 RF60's to achieve sufficient burn-time to effect HSS or can you do it with just 2 units?

Why doesn't Cactus use an outboard module that plugs into the flash allowing for RF enabled HSS? If only the engineers were photographers too!

You can do HSS with just one RF60 however it has to see the has pre flash from a HSS flash, AKA an on camera hss ttl flash, or one on a hss trigger. So for example:

Setup A: Canon 580EXII on Canon 60D in hss mode -> rf60 optical slave in HSS mode. If the RF60 sees the ttl flash it will go into hss sympathy mode.

Setup B: YN622C on Canon 60d -> yn622c off camera with Canon 580EXII -> rf60 optical slave in hss mode.

When the rf60 sees the hss pre flash it switches into hss mode, which does the same as standard ttl flashes firing fast pulses of light to cover the frame. It is not a hyper sync type of burn in.

Im a tester We talked about the HSS option adding to the Cactus v6. The issue is the flash trigger would have to actually truly be ttl protocol to allow the camera to go into auto fp mode. By moving to ttl you would basically throwing out all of RF60 and v6's features, and backwards compatibility and so on and just moving to a standard brand specific ttl system. The RF60 and v6 are as brand agnostic as they can be. You can not break out just the hss portion out of the protocol. Also most of cactus engineers are photographers.

Brian, thank you for clarifying that issue for me and any readers that I led astray. I got my mis-information from Gadget Infinity and MPX when I inquired about hss functionality.

Can multiple MP60's be fired sequentially using the built-in user-settable delay feature to accomplish HSS? (The idea being to retain full-power flash bursts.)

Another tester was able to do this.. With a Cactus v6 transceiver to off camera rf60s. I am trying to figure it out. I will update once I have figured it out. I have 5 RF60s LOL so I think i can do it don't you? LOL The cactus v6 transceiver that goes with the rf60 should be out in may http://brianhurseyphotography.com/blog/?p=574

OP ktownbill Senior Member • Posts: 2,191
Re: Cactus RF60 HSS

Brian Hursey wrote:

ktownbill wrote:

Brian Hursey wrote:

ktownbill wrote:

Brian Hursey wrote:

I talked to them about radio hss. Issue is it is either they make it a ttl trigger brand specific and throw out everything else, or keep it the way it is. As long as one of the flashes sees the ttl pre signal it passes hss to all of the rest of the flashes via radio. The thing is the camera has to think it sees a ttl flash to go into hss mode. Then the RF60 sees the hss pre flash and uses that signal to trigger hss. I slaved mine of of a ttl flash in my softbox using a yn622c. Although in bright sun if it is not able to see the signal i could see where it could be a problem. I am seeing if there is a way to use the v6 to mass the signal that way you could put the v6 closer to the hss ttl flash. It still is an intresting concept. I got a little carried away with my testing. The RF60s are the top row of flashes. https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7358/13022083514_0a0cc604e4_b.jpg

Brian, thank you for sharing this information. I like your set-up using a remote flash to trigger the RF60's into HSS mode.

I think the various articles are misleading readers into thinking that you can do HSS with just a single RF60. I'm guessing that it takes 3 RF60's to achieve sufficient burn-time to effect HSS or can you do it with just 2 units?

Why doesn't Cactus use an outboard module that plugs into the flash allowing for RF enabled HSS? If only the engineers were photographers too!

You can do HSS with just one RF60 however it has to see the has pre flash from a HSS flash, AKA an on camera hss ttl flash, or one on a hss trigger. So for example:

Setup A: Canon 580EXII on Canon 60D in hss mode -> rf60 optical slave in HSS mode. If the RF60 sees the ttl flash it will go into hss sympathy mode.

Setup B: YN622C on Canon 60d -> yn622c off camera with Canon 580EXII -> rf60 optical slave in hss mode.

When the rf60 sees the hss pre flash it switches into hss mode, which does the same as standard ttl flashes firing fast pulses of light to cover the frame. It is not a hyper sync type of burn in.

Im a tester We talked about the HSS option adding to the Cactus v6. The issue is the flash trigger would have to actually truly be ttl protocol to allow the camera to go into auto fp mode. By moving to ttl you would basically throwing out all of RF60 and v6's features, and backwards compatibility and so on and just moving to a standard brand specific ttl system. The RF60 and v6 are as brand agnostic as they can be. You can not break out just the hss portion out of the protocol. Also most of cactus engineers are photographers.

Brian, thank you for clarifying that issue for me and any readers that I led astray. I got my mis-information from Gadget Infinity and MPX when I inquired about hss functionality.

Can multiple MP60's be fired sequentially using the built-in user-settable delay feature to accomplish HSS? (The idea being to retain full-power flash bursts.)

Another tester was able to do this.. With a Cactus v6 transceiver to off camera rf60s. I am trying to figure it out. I will update once I have figured it out. I have 5 RF60s LOL so I think i can do it don't you? LOL The cactus v6 transceiver that goes with the rf60 should be out in may http://brianhurseyphotography.com/blog/?p=574

Excellent, that they were able to trigger rf60's in sequence!  I hope that capability made it to the production V6's.....

Will I be able to use my 580exII off-camera in hss mode using V6's as receiver and transmitter?

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Bill

Brian Hursey Junior Member • Posts: 27
Re: Cactus RF60 HSS

Looks like to get HSS or hypersync to work it is either through the ttl protocol, or optically see the flash pre sync.   You cant do that from the center pin trigger signal. The camera needs to think it has an HSS flash on camera. The RF60 will see the pre signal then go into HSS pulse mode. So right now the only option is optically, which both the RF60 and V6 have.  I am going to do further testing today, although its not the most idea situation if your only focus is HSS. However its cheaper than buying 400$ flashes.  I am going to do some more testing today. What type of camera do you have?

OP ktownbill Senior Member • Posts: 2,191
Re: Cactus RF60 HSS

Brian Hursey wrote:

Looks like to get HSS or hypersync to work it is either through the ttl protocol, or optically see the flash pre sync. You cant do that from the center pin trigger signal. The camera needs to think it has an HSS flash on camera. The RF60 will see the pre signal then go into HSS pulse mode. So right now the only option is optically, which both the RF60 and V6 have. I am going to do further testing today, although its not the most idea situation if your only focus is HSS. However its cheaper than buying 400$ flashes. I am going to do some more testing today. What type of camera do you have?

I understand getting HSS via optical mode but above you also said thru ttl protocol?  Please explain.

I use 7D and 5Dm3 cameras.

-- hide signature --

Bill

Brian Hursey Junior Member • Posts: 27
Re: Cactus RF60 HSS

ktownbill wrote:

Brian Hursey wrote:

Looks like to get HSS or hypersync to work it is either through the ttl protocol, or optically see the flash pre sync. You cant do that from the center pin trigger signal. The camera needs to think it has an HSS flash on camera. The RF60 will see the pre signal then go into HSS pulse mode. So right now the only option is optically, which both the RF60 and V6 have. I am going to do further testing today, although its not the most idea situation if your only focus is HSS. However its cheaper than buying 400$ flashes. I am going to do some more testing today. What type of camera do you have?

I understand getting HSS via optical mode but above you also said thru ttl protocol? Please explain.

I use 7D and 5Dm3 cameras.

What I meant was you need ttl to get it to work. The camera has to think there is a ttl flash on the camera.  Although with further testing. I was able to get my RF60s to work in HSS mode via radio through a work around.  I used a YN622C to have the camera go into has mode, then I connected a Cactus v5 to the sync port of the YN622C.  The v5 triggered the RF60s through the pre flash signal from the YN622C sync. Causing the RF60s to flash. Since they have a HSS pulse mode it ends up acting just like any other HSS flash. I was able to get a clean uniform frame at 1/8000.   Although to get it to work you need a v5 and a YN622C. The neat thing is. I can just also have my yn622C receivers with other ttl flashes in hss I know not perfect but it works.

OP ktownbill Senior Member • Posts: 2,191
Re: Cactus RF60 HSS

Brian Hursey wrote:

ktownbill wrote:

Brian Hursey wrote:

Looks like to get HSS or hypersync to work it is either through the ttl protocol, or optically see the flash pre sync. You cant do that from the center pin trigger signal. The camera needs to think it has an HSS flash on camera. The RF60 will see the pre signal then go into HSS pulse mode. So right now the only option is optically, which both the RF60 and V6 have. I am going to do further testing today, although its not the most idea situation if your only focus is HSS. However its cheaper than buying 400$ flashes. I am going to do some more testing today. What type of camera do you have?

I understand getting HSS via optical mode but above you also said thru ttl protocol? Please explain.

I use 7D and 5Dm3 cameras.

What I meant was you need ttl to get it to work. The camera has to think there is a ttl flash on the camera. Although with further testing. I was able to get my RF60s to work in HSS mode via radio through a work around. I used a YN622C to have the camera go into has mode, then I connected a Cactus v5 to the sync port of the YN622C. The v5 triggered the RF60s through the pre flash signal from the YN622C sync. Causing the RF60s to flash. Since they have a HSS pulse mode it ends up acting just like any other HSS flash. I was able to get a clean uniform frame at 1/8000. Although to get it to work you need a v5 and a YN622C. The neat thing is. I can just also have my yn622C receivers with other ttl flashes in hss I know not perfect but it works.

Very pleased to hear this.  I have 3 V5's that can be put to good use now. Will this set-up work with a V5 in the pass-thru hot shoe of the camera mounted yn622?

Thank you again for sharing your findings Brian.

-- hide signature --

Bill

Brian Hursey Junior Member • Posts: 27
Re: Cactus RF60 HSS

You have to connect the YN622C to the V5 with the pc-> 3.5mm cord to get the pre signal to work to allow for HSS to work. Through the center pin on the hot shoe it is not a pre signal.  And yes you put the YN622C on top of the camera, then the v5 on top of it connected with the sync cable.  I then had my RF60 off camera set in HSS mode in slave I turned the optical slave off that is auto enabled with HSS mode. I had my camera set to manual, I believe if you do TTL you may have to adjust the timing, however this can be done easily on the delay option on the RF60. It was syncing at 1/8000 fine. I tried the same with my canon 580EXII and basically got very very close to the same exposure.  Think about it I have 5 of these things. And I have a bracket that can hold 4 and I can add an additional 2 flash plate.  Can you say some outside overpower the sun awesomeness in a 28 inch softbox?

So say we do 5 RF60s's that is 139 each soo 695 total. You add a v5 which is 39$ and then a YN622C which is what 45? = 749 without tax.

Now we try the same thing with say a YN568EX So 189x5=945 + 6x YN622C's =534= 1579

Now with Canon 580EXII's 440x 5 = 2000 x 6YN622C's = 534 = 2534

Of course with the last 2 you get TTL.

OP ktownbill Senior Member • Posts: 2,191
Re: Cactus RF60 HSS

Brian Hursey wrote:

You have to connect the YN622C to the V5 with the pc-> 3.5mm cord to get the pre signal to work to allow for HSS to work. Through the center pin on the hot shoe it is not a pre signal. And yes you put the YN622C on top of the camera, then the v5 on top of it connected with the sync cable. I then had my RF60 off camera set in HSS mode in slave I turned the optical slave off that is auto enabled with HSS mode. I had my camera set to manual, I believe if you do TTL you may have to adjust the timing, however this can be done easily on the delay option on the RF60. It was syncing at 1/8000 fine. I tried the same with my canon 580EXII and basically got very very close to the same exposure. Think about it I have 5 of these things. And I have a bracket that can hold 4 and I can add an additional 2 flash plate. Can you say some outside overpower the sun awesomeness in a 28 inch softbox?

So say we do 5 RF60s's that is 139 each soo 695 total. You add a v5 which is 39$ and then a YN622C which is what 45? = 749 without tax.

Now we try the same thing with say a YN568EX So 189x5=945 + 6x YN622C's =534= 1579

Now with Canon 580EXII's 440x 5 = 2000 x 6YN622C's = 534 = 2534

Of course with the last 2 you get TTL.

I like your work-around, especially the math!  I look forward to trying it.  Is this scheme the same one the other testers came up with?  Is the flash power still variable when in hss mode?

It still seems to me that Cactus could incorporate a manually selectable mode that synthesizes the same signal the you sent to the RF60 with your work-around. And it would be non-brand specific or brand-agnostic as you call it which follows Cactus philosophy.

Do you see a use for a V6 parameter that would trigger each group in sequence with a user selectable delay period?  Utilizing just such a function would allow full-power hss accomplishing what you did with half the number of flashes.  What say Cactus?  Perhaps I am missing something?

-- hide signature --

Bill

Brian Hursey Junior Member • Posts: 27
Re: Cactus RF60 HSS

Brian Hursey wrote:

You have to connect the YN622C to the V5 with the pc-> 3.5mm cord to get the pre signal to work to allow for HSS to work. Through the center pin on the hot shoe it is not a pre signal. And yes you put the YN622C on top of the camera, then the v5 on top of it connected with the sync cable. I then had my RF60 off camera set in HSS mode in slave I turned the optical slave off that is auto enabled with HSS mode. I had my camera set to manual, I believe if you do TTL you may have to adjust the timing, however this can be done easily on the delay option on the RF60. It was syncing at 1/8000 fine. I tried the same with my canon 580EXII and basically got very very close to the same exposure. Think about it I have 5 of these things. And I have a bracket that can hold 4 and I can add an additional 2 flash plate. Can you say some outside overpower the sun awesomeness in a 28 inch softbox?

So say we do 5 RF60s's that is 139 each soo 695 total. You add a v5 which is 39$ and then a YN622C which is what 45? = 749 without tax.

Now we try the same thing with say a YN568EX So 189x5=945 + 6x YN622C's =534= 1579

Now with Canon 580EXII's 440x 5 = 2000 x 6YN622C's = 534 = 2534

Of course with the last 2 you get TTL.

I like your work-around, especially the math!  I look forward to trying it.  Is this scheme the same one the other testers came up with?  Is the flash power still variable when in hss mode?

It still seems to me that Cactus could incorporate a manually selectable mode that synthesizes the same signal the you sent to the RF60 with your work-around. And it would be non-brand specific or brand-agnostic as you call it which follows Cactus philosophy.

Do you see a use for a V6 parameter that would trigger each group in sequence with a user selectable delay period?  Utilizing just such a function would allow full-power hss accomplishing what you did with half the number of flashes.  What say Cactus?  Perhaps I am missing something?

The cascaded could be accomplished but the thing is you still need the pre sync from a on camera hss flash triggering say a v6 . If not the curtain is to far already. So that pre sync trigger signal needs to be a established first. That can be via a hss ttl trigger. Or a hss flash on camera triggering a v6 or rf60 optically. I was able to get hyper sync that way but with one flash you have a peak then trail soo you could with a delay add to that to make it even. However just putting the rf60 in hss made the frame even. It actually basically matched my canon 580exII at 1/800 in output. Currently I only can get the YN622c to trigger a v5. V6 isent working. So yn622c -> v5 works , yn622c -> v6 currently doesn't work. Working with cactus to see if we can find out why. But in the yn622c -> v5 setup you can hand hold a v6 and control the power. Sorta like you do with the Godox system. I hope to get the v6 working with the yn622C via firmware upgrade later if it's possible. More testing to be done. The v5 combo seems solid. I'm going to try and trigger all of my hss flashes together today. That's 8 flashes total! :O. It's gonna be very top heavy. :/. I although only can fit 7 on one bracket.

Brian Hursey Junior Member • Posts: 27
Re: Cactus RF60 HSS

Brian Hursey wrote:

You have to connect the YN622C to the V5 with the pc-> 3.5mm cord to get the pre signal to work to allow for HSS to work. Through the center pin on the hot shoe it is not a pre signal. And yes you put the YN622C on top of the camera, then the v5 on top of it connected with the sync cable. I then had my RF60 off camera set in HSS mode in slave I turned the optical slave off that is auto enabled with HSS mode. I had my camera set to manual, I believe if you do TTL you may have to adjust the timing, however this can be done easily on the delay option on the RF60. It was syncing at 1/8000 fine. I tried the same with my canon 580EXII and basically got very very close to the same exposure. Think about it I have 5 of these things. And I have a bracket that can hold 4 and I can add an additional 2 flash plate. Can you say some outside overpower the sun awesomeness in a 28 inch softbox?

So say we do 5 RF60s's that is 139 each soo 695 total. You add a v5 which is 39$ and then a YN622C which is what 45? = 749 without tax.

Now we try the same thing with say a YN568EX So 189x5=945 + 6x YN622C's =534= 1579

Now with Canon 580EXII's 440x 5 = 2000 x 6YN622C's = 534 = 2534

Of course with the last 2 you get TTL.

I like your work-around, especially the math!  I look forward to trying it.  Is this scheme the same one the other testers came up with?  Is the flash power still variable when in hss mode?

It still seems to me that Cactus could incorporate a manually selectable mode that synthesizes the same signal the you sent to the RF60 with your work-around. And it would be non-brand specific or brand-agnostic as you call it which follows Cactus philosophy.

Do you see a use for a V6 parameter that would trigger each group in sequence with a user selectable delay period?  Utilizing just such a function would allow full-power hss accomplishing what you did with half the number of flashes.  What say Cactus?  Perhaps I am missing something?

The cascaded could be accomplished but the thing is you still need the pre sync from a on camera hss flash triggering say a v6 . If not the curtain is to far already. So that pre sync trigger signal needs to be a established first. That can be via a hss ttl trigger. Or a hss flash on camera triggering a v6 or rf60 optically. I was able to get hyper sync that way but with one flash you have a peak then trail soo you could with a delay add to that to make it even. However just putting the rf60 in hss made the frame even. It actually basically matched my canon 580exII at 1/800 in output. Currently I only can get the YN622c to trigger a v5. V6 isent working. So yn622c -> v5 works , yn622c -> v6 currently doesn't work. Working with cactus to see if we can find out why. But in the yn622c -> v5 setup you can hand hold a v6 and control the power. Sorta like you do with the Godox system. I hope to get the v6 working with the yn622C via firmware upgrade later if it's possible. More testing to be done. The v5 combo seems solid. I'm going to try and trigger all of my hss flashes together today. That's 8 flashes total! :O. It's gonna be very top heavy. :/. I although only can fit 7 on one bracket.

I mean 1/8000 with my 580exII

OP ktownbill Senior Member • Posts: 2,191
Re: Cactus RF60 HSS

Brian Hursey wrote:

Brian Hursey wrote:

You have to connect the YN622C to the V5 with the pc-> 3.5mm cord to get the pre signal to work to allow for HSS to work. Through the center pin on the hot shoe it is not a pre signal. And yes you put the YN622C on top of the camera, then the v5 on top of it connected with the sync cable. I then had my RF60 off camera set in HSS mode in slave I turned the optical slave off that is auto enabled with HSS mode. I had my camera set to manual, I believe if you do TTL you may have to adjust the timing, however this can be done easily on the delay option on the RF60. It was syncing at 1/8000 fine. I tried the same with my canon 580EXII and basically got very very close to the same exposure. Think about it I have 5 of these things. And I have a bracket that can hold 4 and I can add an additional 2 flash plate. Can you say some outside overpower the sun awesomeness in a 28 inch softbox?

So say we do 5 RF60s's that is 139 each soo 695 total. You add a v5 which is 39$ and then a YN622C which is what 45? = 749 without tax.

Now we try the same thing with say a YN568EX So 189x5=945 + 6x YN622C's =534= 1579

Now with Canon 580EXII's 440x 5 = 2000 x 6YN622C's = 534 = 2534

Of course with the last 2 you get TTL.

I like your work-around, especially the math! I look forward to trying it. Is this scheme the same one the other testers came up with? Is the flash power still variable when in hss mode?

It still seems to me that Cactus could incorporate a manually selectable mode that synthesizes the same signal the you sent to the RF60 with your work-around. And it would be non-brand specific or brand-agnostic as you call it which follows Cactus philosophy.

Do you see a use for a V6 parameter that would trigger each group in sequence with a user selectable delay period? Utilizing just such a function would allow full-power hss accomplishing what you did with half the number of flashes. What say Cactus? Perhaps I am missing something?

The cascaded could be accomplished but the thing is you still need the pre sync from a on camera hss flash triggering say a v6 . If not the curtain is to far already. So that pre sync trigger signal needs to be a established first. That can be via a hss ttl trigger. Or a hss flash on camera triggering a v6 or rf60 optically. I was able to get hyper sync that way but with one flash you have a peak then trail soo you could with a delay add to that to make it even. However just putting the rf60 in hss made the frame even. It actually basically matched my canon 580exII at 1/800 in output. Currently I only can get the YN622c to trigger a v5. V6 isent working. So yn622c -> v5 works , yn622c -> v6 currently doesn't work. Working with cactus to see if we can find out why. But in the yn622c -> v5 setup you can hand hold a v6 and control the power. Sorta like you do with the Godox system. I hope to get the v6 working with the yn622C via firmware upgrade later if it's possible. More testing to be done. The v5 combo seems solid. I'm going to try and trigger all of my hss flashes together today. That's 8 flashes total! :O. It's gonna be very top heavy. :/. I although only can fit 7 on one bracket.

I mean 1/8000 with my 580exII

In trying to wrap my head around why a pre-sync is needed I concluded that the flash needs a head-start on the shutter which further leads me to believe that the camera itself needs the pre-sync to actually delay the shutter curtain until the flash has time to fire from initial triggering. I'm talking about ALL flashes on ALL cameras with f/p shutters. Nothing to do with what you are doing with rf60's.

I say this because you said the curtain already started its travel prior to the flash getting up to speed so to speak.  Am I anywhere close to understanding this?  lol

Regarding how you accomplished HSS with an RF60 via radio-link I understand in concept how you did it just not in theory.

Would love to see your mass firing of multiple flashes in HSS in a utube video!

-- hide signature --

Bill

Brian Hursey Junior Member • Posts: 27
Re: Cactus RF60 HSS

ktownbill wrote:

Brian Hursey wrote:

Brian Hursey wrote:

You have to connect the YN622C to the V5 with the pc-> 3.5mm cord to get the pre signal to work to allow for HSS to work. Through the center pin on the hot shoe it is not a pre signal. And yes you put the YN622C on top of the camera, then the v5 on top of it connected with the sync cable. I then had my RF60 off camera set in HSS mode in slave I turned the optical slave off that is auto enabled with HSS mode. I had my camera set to manual, I believe if you do TTL you may have to adjust the timing, however this can be done easily on the delay option on the RF60. It was syncing at 1/8000 fine. I tried the same with my canon 580EXII and basically got very very close to the same exposure. Think about it I have 5 of these things. And I have a bracket that can hold 4 and I can add an additional 2 flash plate. Can you say some outside overpower the sun awesomeness in a 28 inch softbox?

So say we do 5 RF60s's that is 139 each soo 695 total. You add a v5 which is 39$ and then a YN622C which is what 45? = 749 without tax.

Now we try the same thing with say a YN568EX So 189x5=945 + 6x YN622C's =534= 1579

Now with Canon 580EXII's 440x 5 = 2000 x 6YN622C's = 534 = 2534

Of course with the last 2 you get TTL.

I like your work-around, especially the math! I look forward to trying it. Is this scheme the same one the other testers came up with? Is the flash power still variable when in hss mode?

It still seems to me that Cactus could incorporate a manually selectable mode that synthesizes the same signal the you sent to the RF60 with your work-around. And it would be non-brand specific or brand-agnostic as you call it which follows Cactus philosophy.

Do you see a use for a V6 parameter that would trigger each group in sequence with a user selectable delay period? Utilizing just such a function would allow full-power hss accomplishing what you did with half the number of flashes. What say Cactus? Perhaps I am missing something?

The cascaded could be accomplished but the thing is you still need the pre sync from a on camera hss flash triggering say a v6 . If not the curtain is to far already. So that pre sync trigger signal needs to be a established first. That can be via a hss ttl trigger. Or a hss flash on camera triggering a v6 or rf60 optically. I was able to get hyper sync that way but with one flash you have a peak then trail soo you could with a delay add to that to make it even. However just putting the rf60 in hss made the frame even. It actually basically matched my canon 580exII at 1/800 in output. Currently I only can get the YN622c to trigger a v5. V6 isent working. So yn622c -> v5 works , yn622c -> v6 currently doesn't work. Working with cactus to see if we can find out why. But in the yn622c -> v5 setup you can hand hold a v6 and control the power. Sorta like you do with the Godox system. I hope to get the v6 working with the yn622C via firmware upgrade later if it's possible. More testing to be done. The v5 combo seems solid. I'm going to try and trigger all of my hss flashes together today. That's 8 flashes total! :O. It's gonna be very top heavy. :/. I although only can fit 7 on one bracket.

I mean 1/8000 with my 580exII

In trying to wrap my head around why a pre-sync is needed I concluded that the flash needs a head-start on the shutter which further leads me to believe that the camera itself needs the pre-sync to actually delay the shutter curtain until the flash has time to fire from initial triggering. I'm talking about ALL flashes on ALL cameras with f/p shutters. Nothing to do with what you are doing with rf60's.

I say this because you said the curtain already started its travel prior to the flash getting up to speed so to speak. Am I anywhere close to understanding this? lol

Regarding how you accomplished HSS with an RF60 via radio-link I understand in concept how you did it just not in theory.

Would love to see your mass firing of multiple flashes in HSS in a utube video!

Im not sure why exactly it is needed, however it is for hss. The camera has to go into HSS mode which is the lightning bolt with a h next to it. if its not in that hypersycn, or HSS wont work.

I might not be able to have time 2 do a video. Two kids and all but I just went out and took pictures with 4 RF60s's now it was not completely as bright as mid say sun. It still is verry bright. There was some light hazey clouds over the sun but still definitely needed HSS. I was at 100iso 1/3200 and f5.

Setup: 4x RF60s on Phottix multiboom 16" in phottix 28 inch softbox. Softbox was about 3 feet away.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/bhursey/14016653276/

Tward the sun:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/bhursey/14036676492/

Other direction.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/bhursey/14040245674/

Brian Hursey Junior Member • Posts: 27
Re: Cactus RF60 HSS

Brian Hursey wrote:

ktownbill wrote:

Brian Hursey wrote:

Brian Hursey wrote:

You have to connect the YN622C to the V5 with the pc-> 3.5mm cord to get the pre signal to work to allow for HSS to work. Through the center pin on the hot shoe it is not a pre signal. And yes you put the YN622C on top of the camera, then the v5 on top of it connected with the sync cable. I then had my RF60 off camera set in HSS mode in slave I turned the optical slave off that is auto enabled with HSS mode. I had my camera set to manual, I believe if you do TTL you may have to adjust the timing, however this can be done easily on the delay option on the RF60. It was syncing at 1/8000 fine. I tried the same with my canon 580EXII and basically got very very close to the same exposure. Think about it I have 5 of these things. And I have a bracket that can hold 4 and I can add an additional 2 flash plate. Can you say some outside overpower the sun awesomeness in a 28 inch softbox?

So say we do 5 RF60s's that is 139 each soo 695 total. You add a v5 which is 39$ and then a YN622C which is what 45? = 749 without tax.

Now we try the same thing with say a YN568EX So 189x5=945 + 6x YN622C's =534= 1579

Now with Canon 580EXII's 440x 5 = 2000 x 6YN622C's = 534 = 2534

Of course with the last 2 you get TTL.

I like your work-around, especially the math! I look forward to trying it. Is this scheme the same one the other testers came up with? Is the flash power still variable when in hss mode?

It still seems to me that Cactus could incorporate a manually selectable mode that synthesizes the same signal the you sent to the RF60 with your work-around. And it would be non-brand specific or brand-agnostic as you call it which follows Cactus philosophy.

Do you see a use for a V6 parameter that would trigger each group in sequence with a user selectable delay period? Utilizing just such a function would allow full-power hss accomplishing what you did with half the number of flashes. What say Cactus? Perhaps I am missing something?

The cascaded could be accomplished but the thing is you still need the pre sync from a on camera hss flash triggering say a v6 . If not the curtain is to far already. So that pre sync trigger signal needs to be a established first. That can be via a hss ttl trigger. Or a hss flash on camera triggering a v6 or rf60 optically. I was able to get hyper sync that way but with one flash you have a peak then trail soo you could with a delay add to that to make it even. However just putting the rf60 in hss made the frame even. It actually basically matched my canon 580exII at 1/800 in output. Currently I only can get the YN622c to trigger a v5. V6 isent working. So yn622c -> v5 works , yn622c -> v6 currently doesn't work. Working with cactus to see if we can find out why. But in the yn622c -> v5 setup you can hand hold a v6 and control the power. Sorta like you do with the Godox system. I hope to get the v6 working with the yn622C via firmware upgrade later if it's possible. More testing to be done. The v5 combo seems solid. I'm going to try and trigger all of my hss flashes together today. That's 8 flashes total! :O. It's gonna be very top heavy. :/. I although only can fit 7 on one bracket.

I mean 1/8000 with my 580exII

In trying to wrap my head around why a pre-sync is needed I concluded that the flash needs a head-start on the shutter which further leads me to believe that the camera itself needs the pre-sync to actually delay the shutter curtain until the flash has time to fire from initial triggering. I'm talking about ALL flashes on ALL cameras with f/p shutters. Nothing to do with what you are doing with rf60's.

I say this because you said the curtain already started its travel prior to the flash getting up to speed so to speak. Am I anywhere close to understanding this? lol

Regarding how you accomplished HSS with an RF60 via radio-link I understand in concept how you did it just not in theory.

Would love to see your mass firing of multiple flashes in HSS in a utube video!

Im not sure why exactly it is needed, however it is for hss. The camera has to go into HSS mode which is the lightning bolt with a h next to it. if its not in that hypersycn, or HSS wont work.

I might not be able to have time 2 do a video. Two kids and all but I just went out and took pictures with 4 RF60s's now it was not completely as bright as mid say sun. It still is verry bright. There was some light hazey clouds over the sun but still definitely needed HSS. I was at 100iso 1/3200 and f5.

Setup: 4x RF60s on Phottix multiboom 16" in phottix 28 inch softbox. Softbox was about 3 feet away.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/bhursey/14016653276/

Tward the sun:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/bhursey/14036676492/

Other direction.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/bhursey/14040245674/

Cactus has updated firmware where now the V6 will also work with the YN622C for HSS with the RF60.

OP ktownbill Senior Member • Posts: 2,191
Re: Cactus RF60 HSS

OBrian Hursey wrote:

Brian Hursey wrote:

ktownbill wrote:

Brian Hursey wrote:

Brian Hursey wrote:

You have to connect the YN622C to the V5 with the pc-> 3.5mm cord to get the pre signal to work to allow for HSS to work. Through the center pin on the hot shoe it is not a pre signal. And yes you put the YN622C on top of the camera, then the v5 on top of it connected with the sync cable. I then had my RF60 off camera set in HSS mode in slave I turned the optical slave off that is auto enabled with HSS mode. I had my camera set to manual, I believe if you do TTL you may have to adjust the timing, however this can be done easily on the delay option on the RF60. It was syncing at 1/8000 fine. I tried the same with my canon 580EXII and basically got very very close to the same exposure. Think about it I have 5 of these things. And I have a bracket that can hold 4 and I can add an additional 2 flash plate. Can you say some outside overpower the sun awesomeness in a 28 inch softbox?

So say we do 5 RF60s's that is 139 each soo 695 total. You add a v5 which is 39$ and then a YN622C which is what 45? = 749 without tax.

Now we try the same thing with say a YN568EX So 189x5=945 + 6x YN622C's =534= 1579

Now with Canon 580EXII's 440x 5 = 2000 x 6YN622C's = 534 = 2534

Of course with the last 2 you get TTL.

I like your work-around, especially the math! I look forward to trying it. Is this scheme the same one the other testers came up with? Is the flash power still variable when in hss mode?

It still seems to me that Cactus could incorporate a manually selectable mode that synthesizes the same signal the you sent to the RF60 with your work-around. And it would be non-brand specific or brand-agnostic as you call it which follows Cactus philosophy.

Do you see a use for a V6 parameter that would trigger each group in sequence with a user selectable delay period? Utilizing just such a function would allow full-power hss accomplishing what you did with half the number of flashes. What say Cactus? Perhaps I am missing something?

The cascaded could be accomplished but the thing is you still need the pre sync from a on camera hss flash triggering say a v6 . If not the curtain is to far already. So that pre sync trigger signal needs to be a established first. That can be via a hss ttl trigger. Or a hss flash on camera triggering a v6 or rf60 optically. I was able to get hyper sync that way but with one flash you have a peak then trail soo you could with a delay add to that to make it even. However just putting the rf60 in hss made the frame even. It actually basically matched my canon 580exII at 1/800 in output. Currently I only can get the YN622c to trigger a v5. V6 isent working. So yn622c -> v5 works , yn622c -> v6 currently doesn't work. Working with cactus to see if we can find out why. But in the yn622c -> v5 setup you can hand hold a v6 and control the power. Sorta like you do with the Godox system. I hope to get the v6 working with the yn622C via firmware upgrade later if it's possible. More testing to be done. The v5 combo seems solid. I'm going to try and trigger all of my hss flashes together today. That's 8 flashes total! :O. It's gonna be very top heavy. :/. I although only can fit 7 on one bracket.

I mean 1/8000 with my 580exII

In trying to wrap my head around why a pre-sync is needed I concluded that the flash needs a head-start on the shutter which further leads me to believe that the camera itself needs the pre-sync to actually delay the shutter curtain until the flash has time to fire from initial triggering. I'm talking about ALL flashes on ALL cameras with f/p shutters. Nothing to do with what you are doing with rf60's.

I say this because you said the curtain already started its travel prior to the flash getting up to speed so to speak. Am I anywhere close to understanding this? lol

Regarding how you accomplished HSS with an RF60 via radio-link I understand in concept how you did it just not in theory.

Would love to see your mass firing of multiple flashes in HSS in a utube video!

Im not sure why exactly it is needed, however it is for hss. The camera has to go into HSS mode which is the lightning bolt with a h next to it. if its not in that hypersycn, or HSS wont work.

I might not be able to have time 2 do a video. Two kids and all but I just went out and took pictures with 4 RF60s's now it was not completely as bright as mid say sun. It still is verry bright. There was some light hazey clouds over the sun but still definitely needed HSS. I was at 100iso 1/3200 and f5.

Setup: 4x RF60s on Phottix multiboom 16" in phottix 28 inch softbox. Softbox was about 3 feet away.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/bhursey/14016653276/

Tward the sun:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/bhursey/14036676492/

Other direction.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/bhursey/14040245674/

Cactus has updated firmware where now the V6 will also work with the YN622C for HSS with the RF60.

I understand how you triggered an RF60 in HSS mode by using a 622c/V6 combination but I don't fully understand the new firmware protocol.  Are you saying a V6 all by itself in the camera hotshoe will trigger a 622c/580ex2 combination?

-- hide signature --

Bill

Brian Hursey Junior Member • Posts: 27
Re: Cactus RF60 HSS

ktownbill wrote:

OBrian Hursey wrote:

Brian Hursey wrote:

ktownbill wrote:

Brian Hursey wrote:

Brian Hursey wrote:

You have to connect the YN622C to the V5 with the pc-> 3.5mm cord to get the pre signal to work to allow for HSS to work. Through the center pin on the hot shoe it is not a pre signal. And yes you put the YN622C on top of the camera, then the v5 on top of it connected with the sync cable. I then had my RF60 off camera set in HSS mode in slave I turned the optical slave off that is auto enabled with HSS mode. I had my camera set to manual, I believe if you do TTL you may have to adjust the timing, however this can be done easily on the delay option on the RF60. It was syncing at 1/8000 fine. I tried the same with my canon 580EXII and basically got very very close to the same exposure. Think about it I have 5 of these things. And I have a bracket that can hold 4 and I can add an additional 2 flash plate. Can you say some outside overpower the sun awesomeness in a 28 inch softbox?

So say we do 5 RF60s's that is 139 each soo 695 total. You add a v5 which is 39$ and then a YN622C which is what 45? = 749 without tax.

Now we try the same thing with say a YN568EX So 189x5=945 + 6x YN622C's =534= 1579

Now with Canon 580EXII's 440x 5 = 2000 x 6YN622C's = 534 = 2534

Of course with the last 2 you get TTL.

I like your work-around, especially the math! I look forward to trying it. Is this scheme the same one the other testers came up with? Is the flash power still variable when in hss mode?

It still seems to me that Cactus could incorporate a manually selectable mode that synthesizes the same signal the you sent to the RF60 with your work-around. And it would be non-brand specific or brand-agnostic as you call it which follows Cactus philosophy.

Do you see a use for a V6 parameter that would trigger each group in sequence with a user selectable delay period? Utilizing just such a function would allow full-power hss accomplishing what you did with half the number of flashes. What say Cactus? Perhaps I am missing something?

The cascaded could be accomplished but the thing is you still need the pre sync from a on camera hss flash triggering say a v6 . If not the curtain is to far already. So that pre sync trigger signal needs to be a established first. That can be via a hss ttl trigger. Or a hss flash on camera triggering a v6 or rf60 optically. I was able to get hyper sync that way but with one flash you have a peak then trail soo you could with a delay add to that to make it even. However just putting the rf60 in hss made the frame even. It actually basically matched my canon 580exII at 1/800 in output. Currently I only can get the YN622c to trigger a v5. V6 isent working. So yn622c -> v5 works , yn622c -> v6 currently doesn't work. Working with cactus to see if we can find out why. But in the yn622c -> v5 setup you can hand hold a v6 and control the power. Sorta like you do with the Godox system. I hope to get the v6 working with the yn622C via firmware upgrade later if it's possible. More testing to be done. The v5 combo seems solid. I'm going to try and trigger all of my hss flashes together today. That's 8 flashes total! :O. It's gonna be very top heavy. :/. I although only can fit 7 on one bracket.

I mean 1/8000 with my 580exII

In trying to wrap my head around why a pre-sync is needed I concluded that the flash needs a head-start on the shutter which further leads me to believe that the camera itself needs the pre-sync to actually delay the shutter curtain until the flash has time to fire from initial triggering. I'm talking about ALL flashes on ALL cameras with f/p shutters. Nothing to do with what you are doing with rf60's.

I say this because you said the curtain already started its travel prior to the flash getting up to speed so to speak. Am I anywhere close to understanding this? lol

Regarding how you accomplished HSS with an RF60 via radio-link I understand in concept how you did it just not in theory.

Would love to see your mass firing of multiple flashes in HSS in a utube video!

Im not sure why exactly it is needed, however it is for hss. The camera has to go into HSS mode which is the lightning bolt with a h next to it. if its not in that hypersycn, or HSS wont work.

I might not be able to have time 2 do a video. Two kids and all but I just went out and took pictures with 4 RF60s's now it was not completely as bright as mid say sun. It still is verry bright. There was some light hazey clouds over the sun but still definitely needed HSS. I was at 100iso 1/3200 and f5.

Setup: 4x RF60s on Phottix multiboom 16" in phottix 28 inch softbox. Softbox was about 3 feet away.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/bhursey/14016653276/

Tward the sun:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/bhursey/14036676492/

Other direction.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/bhursey/14040245674/

Cactus has updated firmware where now the V6 will also work with the YN622C for HSS with the RF60.

I understand how you triggered an RF60 in HSS mode by using a 622c/V6 combination but I don't fully understand the new firmware protocol. Are you saying a V6 all by itself in the camera hotshoe will trigger a 622c/580ex2 combination?

The way I am doing it now is the YN622C on the camera hot shoe. The v6 on top of that connected by sync cord.  The v6 receives the pre sync for hss via sync cord and triggers the RF60's in HSS mode.  Having another v6 off camera that flash will not be in HSS. It will trigger on HSS pre flash, you can adjust the delay and get ito a hyper sync mode though at full power.  You also could have a YN622C off camera that would be triggered at the same time from the yn622c on camera, and do HSS on the 580EXII.  I will test some more today if I get a chance.

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