Panasonic 7-14 - Usage tips for UWA neophyte

Started Apr 19, 2014 | Discussions
richarddd
richarddd Veteran Member • Posts: 3,095
Re: Panasonic 7-14 - Usage tips for UWA neophyte

Florida Nature Photographer wrote:

Anders W wrote:

Here are a couple of catches with the 7-14 from yesterday's little hike close to home. Would you have been able to tell that either of these are UWA shots if I hadn't let you know? And as you can see from the second shot, even the 7-14 can be pretty well behaved with regard to flare under the right circumstances.

The open oak fields ...

So I looked at this again and a question came to mind. In this scene you could easily use the 12-40 and backup a bit to get the same framing. What is the choice there? Lets say I was shooting a bird in a tree so I had my 50-200 on and now I want to shoot this scene. What do I consider in deciding between putting the 12-40 on vs the 7-14?

Move around for composition and perspective.  Choose lens focal length for framing and aperture for depth of field.

Is that what you're asking?

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OP Florida Nature Photographer Veteran Member • Posts: 8,150
Re: Panasonic 7-14 - Usage tips for UWA neophyte

richarddd wrote:

Move around for composition and perspective. Choose lens focal length for framing and aperture for depth of field.

Is that what you're asking?

No. I'm specifically wonder about reasons that would cause me to choose one lens (12-40 vs 7-14) over another in that situation, where the focal length of either would work.

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jeffharris
jeffharris Veteran Member • Posts: 8,832
Re: Panasonic 7-14 - Usage tips for UWA neophyte

Florida Nature Photographer wrote:

jeffharris wrote:

but really, composing in 16:9 is much more effective, since you're seeing and working within the limitations and much narrower 16:9 frame while you're shooting.

The composition will be different, probably more effective. That's my approach anyway.

I'll keep in mind since it is an easy change the Super Control Panel. I normally try to give myself a little wiggle room for cropping on the edges of my photos anyway.

I guess I wasn't too clear.

What I meant is that when you change aspect ratio, you tend to see and compose differently to suit the different field of view. So, if the end result will to be 16:9 or 3:2 or 1:1, why not switch and compose with that aspect ratio directly. It's easy enough to do.

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Anders W Forum Pro • Posts: 21,468
Re: Panasonic 7-14 - Usage tips for UWA neophyte

Florida Nature Photographer wrote:

richarddd wrote:

Move around for composition and perspective. Choose lens focal length for framing and aperture for depth of field.

Is that what you're asking?

No. I'm specifically wonder about reasons that would cause me to choose one lens (12-40 vs 7-14) over another in that situation, where the focal length of either would work.

I think Richard already provided the answer although in a rather abstract form. In simplified examples, we talk about changing the FL versus "zooming with your feet". In reality, it works that way only if your target is a brick wall. In other cases, it's a bit more complicated than that. There is a best spot from where to take the picture (once you have a vision of what you want to accomplish) and once you are at that spot, there is also an ideal framing and thus an ideal FL.

In the example with the "oak field" ("Ekhagen" in Swedish), I wanted the characteristic oak in the middle, still dark and naked although spring is apparent on the ground, without all that much interference from other things in the fore- or background. I also wanted a segment of the grass where it was filled with the yellow flowers (gagea lutea, don't really know the name in English). Finally, I wanted the scene counterlit but without the sun in the frame and with some surrounding trees partly in the frame tpward the edges to give a better sense of the environment. I eventually found a spot that fit the bill and once at that spot, it was just a matter of finding the proper FL.

If I had moved back and chosen another FL (even 12 mm which is close to the 10 mm I used), I wouldn't have been able to capture what I wanted to capture, e.g., because things would start to block one another in unwanted ways. Perhaps my vision of what to capture was not the best from this or that point of view. But that's a matter of preference so no hard rules apply.

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OP Florida Nature Photographer Veteran Member • Posts: 8,150
Re: Panasonic 7-14 - Usage tips for UWA neophyte

jeffharris wrote:

Florida Nature Photographer wrote:

jeffharris wrote:

but really, composing in 16:9 is much more effective, since you're seeing and working within the limitations and much narrower 16:9 frame while you're shooting.

The composition will be different, probably more effective. That's my approach anyway.

I'll keep in mind since it is an easy change the Super Control Panel. I normally try to give myself a little wiggle room for cropping on the edges of my photos anyway.

I guess I wasn't too clear.

What I meant is that when you change aspect ratio, you tend to see and compose differently to suit the different field of view. So, if the end result will to be 16:9 or 3:2 or 1:1, why not switch and compose with that aspect ratio directly. It's easy enough to do.

You were clear Jeff. That is exactly what I meant when I said...

"it is an easy change the Super Control Panel"

I meant changing the aspect ratio while I'm shooting to 16:9 with the SCP.

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OP Florida Nature Photographer Veteran Member • Posts: 8,150
Re: Panasonic 7-14 - Usage tips for UWA neophyte

Anders W wrote:

I eventually found a spot that fit the bill and once at that spot, it was just a matter of finding the proper FL.

If I had moved back and chosen another FL (even 12 mm which is close to the 10 mm I used), I wouldn't have been able to capture what I wanted to capture, e.g., because things would start to block one another in unwanted ways.

O.K. That makes sense... And it something I've heard before but hasn't quite sunk in yet. Zooming with the lens isn't the same as zooming with the feet. I have to remember that more because sometimes I zoom with the lens when I could zoom with my feet simply because it is easier.

Ignoring for a moment that 12mm on the 7-14 isn't the same as 12mm on the 12-40. If the shot called for 12 mm you would always choose the 12-40 over the 7-14 because it is superior optically?

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Anders W Forum Pro • Posts: 21,468
Re: Panasonic 7-14 - Usage tips for UWA neophyte

Florida Nature Photographer wrote:

Anders W wrote:

I eventually found a spot that fit the bill and once at that spot, it was just a matter of finding the proper FL.

If I had moved back and chosen another FL (even 12 mm which is close to the 10 mm I used), I wouldn't have been able to capture what I wanted to capture, e.g., because things would start to block one another in unwanted ways.

O.K. That makes sense... And it something I've heard before but hasn't quite sunk in yet. Zooming with the lens isn't the same as zooming with the feet. I have to remember that more because sometimes I zoom with the lens when I could zoom with my feet simply because it is easier.

Yes. That's important to remember. Having the ability to zoom is fine because it is faster than switching lenses and gives you more fine-tuned control of FL than you can get with primes. But it shouldn't be used as a replacement for moving around. The way I try to work it is to find the right spot first and then zoom (or switch lenses) for the right framing.

The situation was somewhat similar with the shot in the "deep woods". In that case, I could have moved back a bit without problems. And the shot would probably have worked out reasonably well at 12 mm too. But I wanted to have a from-above rather than a from-the-side view of the foreground and therefore preferred using a pretty short FL to moving backwards with a longer one.

Ignoring for a moment that 12mm on the 7-14 isn't the same as 12mm on the 12-40. If the shot called for 12 mm you would always choose the 12-40 over the 7-14 because it is superior optically?

Since I don't have the 12-40 in my hands yet, I can't say for sure. But based on all the evidence available to me at this point, the 12-40 at 12 is better optically than the 7-14 at 12. So I strongly suspect that I will use the 7-14 only when I want to go wider than the 12-40 allows.

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GeorgianBay1939
GeorgianBay1939 Veteran Member • Posts: 4,044
Re: Panasonic 7-14 - Usage tips for UWA neophyte

Anders W wrote:

Florida Nature Photographer wrote:

richarddd wrote:

Move around for composition and perspective. Choose lens focal length for framing and aperture for depth of field.

Is that what you're asking?

No. I'm specifically wonder about reasons that would cause me to choose one lens (12-40 vs 7-14) over another in that situation, where the focal length of either would work.

I think Richard already provided the answer although in a rather abstract form. In simplified examples, we talk about changing the FL versus "zooming with your feet". In reality, it works that way only if your target is a brick wall. In other cases, it's a bit more complicated than that. There is a best spot from where to take the picture (once you have a vision of what you want to accomplish) and once you are at that spot, there is also an ideal framing and thus an ideal FL.

In the example with the "oak field" ("Ekhagen" in Swedish), I wanted the characteristic oak in the middle, still dark and naked although spring is apparent on the ground, without all that much interference from other things in the fore- or background. I also wanted a segment of the grass where it was filled with the yellow flowers (gagea lutea, don't really know the name in English). Finally, I wanted the scene counterlit but without the sun in the frame and with some surrounding trees partly in the frame tpward the edges to give a better sense of the environment. I eventually found a spot that fit the bill and once at that spot, it was just a matter of finding the proper FL.

If I had moved back and chosen another FL (even 12 mm which is close to the 10 mm I used), I wouldn't have been able to capture what I wanted to capture, e.g., because things would start to block one another in unwanted ways. Perhaps my vision of what to capture was not the best from this or that point of view. But that's a matter of preference so no hard rules apply.

Perhaps I can add to Richard's and Anders' good advice above.

Whilst waiting for an otter to re-appear at the shoreline this morning I put the 7-14 on the GX7 and took a few snapshots of my "test dock", (one that I practice on to get good exposure in difficult lighting conditions, since it is invariably up-sun). I usually shoot the dock from my truck so I am about 2 meters above the surface of the dock and back about 3 meters from the near edge.

Here is the dock shot YESTERDAY from my truck with the 14-140 at 14mm:

1 Shot from truck yesterday at 14mm. (My standard test compostion.)

Shot THIS MORNING from the roadway a little bit to the left of the above at 7mm (using my 7-14mm).

2 Today, shot from roadway at 7 mm

I had, a few minutes earlier, scrambled down the roadbank to get this shot, again at 7mm:

3 Up close to dock, at 7mm. (Note UWA effect on the clouds.)

And a few minutes earlier than the above I shot the dock by crowding up to the right hand side, yielding this photo:

4 Up tight to dock at 7mm

These are not posted as "Good Photographs", but rather examples of experiments with changing:

  • Focal Lengths
  • Distance to Near Subject
  • Placement of Near Subject ...

... to illustrate some very good points made earlier about perspective, foreground, AOV and the effect of short FLs on the cloud patterns. They are OOC except for a bit of exposure tweaking. No cropping.

Lots to learn.

Tom

PS Fortunately I had the long zoom (100-300 mm) mounted on the GH2 and was able to photo these two critters....

Otter at a couple hundred feet.

American Tree Sparrow (?) in thicket

Nice to see the ice melting!!!

t

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(unknown member) Veteran Member • Posts: 4,734
Yep, you're onto it

If that sky was crazier, going to 12mm or so would have been crazy good.  By and large, I think that UWA zooms are indoor lenses, or tight urban landscape lenses.  Big wide visual fields, it's hard to get the width of an ultra wide to be harmonic with its height, or vice versa.  Not that I don't have outdoor landscape shots that I think work, but when you've got that kind of field of view, you need to be in a place where everything you can see makes you breathless.

OP Florida Nature Photographer Veteran Member • Posts: 8,150
Re: Panasonic 7-14 - Usage tips for UWA neophyte

GeorgianBay1939 wrote:

Here is the dock shot YESTERDAY from my truck with the 14-140 at 14mm:

Shot THIS MORNING from the roadway a little bit to the left of the above at 7mm (using my 7-14mm).

It is striking to me how much more "there" you feel in the second shot vs the first.

Thanks for the help.

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OP Florida Nature Photographer Veteran Member • Posts: 8,150
Re: Yep, you're onto it

Ednaz wrote:

If that sky was crazier, going to 12mm or so would have been crazy good.

Going to 12mm would have backed me up and shown a lot of unattractive foreground???

By and large, I think that UWA zooms are indoor lenses, or tight urban landscape lenses. Big wide visual fields, it's hard to get the width of an ultra wide to be harmonic with its height, or vice versa. Not that I don't have outdoor landscape shots that I think work, but when you've got that kind of field of view, you need to be in a place where everything you can see makes you breathless.

You sure threw me for a loop with that one. You say you are an UWA addict but you don't use it for landscapes / nature type shots? Only inside and in cities?

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(unknown member) Veteran Member • Posts: 4,734
counterintuitive, I know

Florida Nature Photographer wrote:

Ednaz wrote:

If that sky was crazier, going to 12mm or so would have been crazy good.

Going to 12mm would have backed me up and shown a lot of unattractive foreground???

IF the sky was crazier looking, 12mm or more would have let you put the mildly interesting sea and other stuff in the bottom 1/8 of the frame, with crazy sky above.  By crazy sky, I mean sky that most people would say "never have seen that before!"

By and large, I think that UWA zooms are indoor lenses, or tight urban landscape lenses. Big wide visual fields, it's hard to get the width of an ultra wide to be harmonic with its height, or vice versa. Not that I don't have outdoor landscape shots that I think work, but when you've got that kind of field of view, you need to be in a place where everything you can see makes you breathless.

You sure threw me for a loop with that one. You say you are an UWA addict but you don't use it for landscapes / nature type shots? Only inside and in cities?

I shoot very little landscape.  But when I do shoot landscape, I find that lenses that compress perspective (back up and shoot long focal lengths) usually work much better than wides.  Wides push everything in the distance range apart, so unless you're trying to isolate the foreground with background context, or layer foreground action with background commentary.

UWAs don't necessarily support intent for general landscapes.  Indoors, or in tight urban environments (in the picture I posted, both streets are one lane wide...) UWA lenses let you layer two layers in compact, maybe claustrophobic spaces.  If you think you want more of the horizontal interest, usually a horizontal stitch will beat a UWA rendition, unless the sky or foreground is legendarily good.  Ultra-wides are also ultra-talls... horizontal stitches are ultra wide without being ultra tall.

Sean Nelson
Sean Nelson Forum Pro • Posts: 12,945
Re: Panasonic 7-14 - Usage tips for UWA neophyte

Florida Nature Photographer wrote:

I am looking primarily for feedback on how to execute better in preparation for a time when there are fabulous opportunities to mess shots up.

I've been lurking in this thread and I've really enjoyed the discussion. I think this is a terrific example of the power of Internet forums, and DPReview in particular.

Thanks for initiating this, and thanks to all the responders!

Abrak Veteran Member • Posts: 4,120
Re: Panasonic 7-14 - Usage tips for UWA neophyte

I definitely fall into the camp that doesnt really use an UWA for landscapes and when I have tried it I have had very limited success. I have taken some really horrible landscape shots of spectacular views with the 7-14. I would post one but thankfully they dont make their way into my Lightroom.

Looking through my 7-14 shots, I notice that I use it quite a lot for street shooting. To me it can make street scenes look much more dynamic than a longer lens. Here's a couple of my better ones...

Note that they are all taken at 7mm or 8mm. I actually often think of the 7-14mm as a 7mm prime.

Anders W Forum Pro • Posts: 21,468
Re: Panasonic 7-14 - Usage tips for UWA neophyte

Abrak wrote:

I definitely fall into the camp that doesnt really use an UWA for landscapes and when I have tried it I have had very limited success. I have taken some really horrible landscape shots of spectacular views with the 7-14. I would post one but thankfully they dont make their way into my Lightroom.

If you are just saying that it doesn't work well for landscapes in your own personal case, I have no problem with that. But if you are saying that it isn't suitable for such use in general, I disagree and rather strongly so. I regularly use it for landscape shots, although certainly not for such shots only.

The samples shown below are not necessarily the very best examples I could provide but at least I am not ashamed of showing them and they happen to be available on line already, at full or at least large size so that you can see them as they are meant to be seen (as at large a size as possible) as well as pixel peep if you want.

What I can also say is that in all these cases, the wide AoV was necessary (short of stitching) in order to achieve what I wanted. A longer FL wouldn't have cut it or not cut it as well.

South Tufa, Mono Lake, CA

Moonlit scene at Red Rock Canyon, CA

Field full of shooting stars close to White Wolf, Yosemite, CA

Piano Grande (the Great Plain), Umbria, Italy

Ekhagen (the Oak Pasture) in Kungshamn-Morga natural reserve, Uppsala, Sweden

In the deep woods in Kungshamn-Morga natural reserve, Uppsala, Sweden

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OP Florida Nature Photographer Veteran Member • Posts: 8,150
Re: Panasonic 7-14 - Usage tips for UWA neophyte

Anders W wrote:

Florida Nature Photographer wrote:

Anders W wrote:

In this case, it isn't really to be blamed on the specific lens. Every UWA will be exactly the same in this particular regard.

So with next years' Oly 7-14 we can only hope for??

  1. Faster lens
  2. Sharper photo
  3. Native, no purple blobs

But not lens glare/distortion issues?

Exactly!

I've been doing some more research about UWA on some other sites geared towards dslr and a word popped out at me that made me realize we forgot a rather important one improvement in the coming Olympus 7-14 Pro...

  1. Faster lens
  2. Sharper photo
  3. Native, no purple blobs
  4. Weatherproof
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OP Florida Nature Photographer Veteran Member • Posts: 8,150
Re: Panasonic 7-14 - Usage tips for UWA neophyte

Sean Nelson wrote:

I've been lurking in this thread and I've really enjoyed the discussion. I think this is a terrific example of the power of Internet forums, and DPReview in particular.

Thanks for initiating this, and thanks to all the responders!

It is always great to hear that others are benefiting from my threads Sean. Thanks for letting me know.

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Florida
I'm going to the Florida Keys in early May. Offer suggestions in the thread below. Thanks.
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OP Florida Nature Photographer Veteran Member • Posts: 8,150
Re: Panasonic 7-14 - Usage tips for UWA neophyte

Anders W wrote:

What I can also say is that in all these cases, the wide AoV was necessary (short of stitching) in order to achieve what I wanted. A longer FL wouldn't have cut it or not cut it as well.

Just when I was starting to think that the 7-14 might not be good for what I primarily bought it for you come in to save the day. These are quite inspiring.

I would have never have thought to use it on the field of shooting stars, wouldn't have seen the need.

I can't believe how bright the moonlit scene appears, even with a 15 second exposure.

Moonlit scene at Red Rock Canyon, CA

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Florida

I'm going to the Florida Keys in early May. Offer suggestions in the thread below. Thanks.
Florida Keys - Places to photograph

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Abrak Veteran Member • Posts: 4,120
Re: Panasonic 7-14 - Usage tips for UWA neophyte

Anders W wrote:

Abrak wrote:

I definitely fall into the camp that doesnt really use an UWA for landscapes and when I have tried it I have had very limited success. I have taken some really horrible landscape shots of spectacular views with the 7-14. I would post one but thankfully they dont make their way into my Lightroom.

If you are just saying that it doesn't work well for landscapes in your own personal case, I have no problem with that. But if you are saying that it isn't suitable for such use in general, I disagree and rather strongly so. I regularly use it for landscape shots, although certainly not for such shots only.

No. It is mostly me. I am not particularly a landscape person. I have seen a lot of really great landscapes out of this lens including yours. Even I have taken the odd one that I feel is pretty decent.

I just wanted to get away from a general assumption that wide angles are for landscapes. I probably take more landscapes with much longer lenses and the 7-14 is a very versatile lens.

OP Florida Nature Photographer Veteran Member • Posts: 8,150
Re: Panasonic 7-14 - Usage tips for UWA neophyte

Abrak wrote:

 Even I have taken the odd one that I feel is pretty decent.

That really is a remarkable shot Abrak. Congratulations.

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Florida
I'm going to the Florida Keys in early May. Offer suggestions in the thread below. Thanks.
Florida Keys - Places to photograph
Winter Wonderful Land Flickr Set
Fall Colors 2013 Flickr Set

 Florida Nature Photographer's gear list:Florida Nature Photographer's gear list
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