With your 5D3 raw files, what's your lightroom develop workflow?

Started Apr 19, 2014 | Discussions
RedFox88 Forum Pro • Posts: 28,158
Re: You've got to be joking. If not, then here's a tip.

The Photo Ninja wrote:

Here are a few truths about the internet:

1) Don't feed the trolls.
2) Haters gonna hate.
3) Forums have some really great helpful advice, also some terrible and nasty human behavior.

Except that the advice I gave you was repeated by most that replied where you spouted out insults.  Good luck with that.

DFPanno
DFPanno Veteran Member • Posts: 5,392
What is CC ?

billythek wrote:

If there's a start place people use religiously and then tweak from there. Specifically from canon 5d3 shooters.

Workflows tend to be very personal. I have mine, but doubt if you would like it. Like the other guy, I have a number of presets that I apply, and then tweak from there. I also tend to use LR just for basic adjustments, then I pop over to CC/Nik to finish things.

If you ask this question in the retouching you will most likely get one guy give you a complete run down of his flow, which he calls a tango.

Regarding camera calibration, I do use different settings for that in my presets, but it all depends on the particular picture. I tend to use camera standard a lot. Sometimes I use landscape or portrait, but those tend to over saturate, especially since I tend to punch things up later in Nik.
--
- Bill

billythek Veteran Member • Posts: 5,260
Re: What is CC ?

billythek wrote:

If there's a start place people use religiously and then tweak from there. Specifically from canon 5d3 shooters.

Workflows tend to be very personal. I have mine, but doubt if you would like it. Like the other guy, I have a number of presets that I apply, and then tweak from there. I also tend to use LR just for basic adjustments, then I pop over to CC/Nik to finish things.

If you ask this question in the retouching you will most likely get one guy give you a complete run down of his flow, which he calls a tango.

Regarding camera calibration, I do use different settings for that in my presets, but it all depends on the particular picture. I tend to use camera standard a lot. Sometimes I use landscape or portrait, but those tend to over saturate, especially since I tend to punch things up later in Nik.
--
- Bill

The question was "what is CC?" It is my way of saying Photoshop CC.

Yes, I am one of those suckers who fell for Adobe's insidious $10/month CC + LR deal. So far I like it.
--
- Bill

 billythek's gear list:billythek's gear list
DxO One Canon EOS 5D Mark III Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II USM Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II USM
toomanycanons Forum Pro • Posts: 12,114
Re: What is CC ?

"Yes, I am one of those suckers who fell for Adobe's insidious $10/month CC + LR deal. So far I like it."

Is it true that any files you save have to be saved to the CC (if that's how it's described) and if you stop paying your $10/month you can't open the files?

billythek Veteran Member • Posts: 5,260
Re: What is CC ?

"Yes, I am one of those suckers who fell for Adobe's insidious $10/month CC + LR deal. So far I like it."

Is it true that any files you save have to be saved to the CC (if that's how it's described) and if you stop paying your $10/month you can't open the files?

Where did you get that ridiculous idea? No. The application is run locally on your machine just like CS6. The is some storage on the cloud that you can use, but you don't have to.

The only requirement for internet is every 3 months the application needs to touch base with the license server.
--
- Bill

 billythek's gear list:billythek's gear list
DxO One Canon EOS 5D Mark III Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II USM Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II USM
DFPanno
DFPanno Veteran Member • Posts: 5,392
Ah; OK.
toomanycanons Forum Pro • Posts: 12,114
Re: What is CC ?

billythek wrote:

"Yes, I am one of those suckers who fell for Adobe's insidious $10/month CC + LR deal. So far I like it."

Is it true that any files you save have to be saved to the CC (if that's how it's described) and if you stop paying your $10/month you can't open the files?

Where did you get that ridiculous idea? No. The application is run locally on your machine just like CS6. The is some storage on the cloud that you can use, but you don't have to.

The only requirement for internet is every 3 months the application needs to touch base with the license server.
--
- Bill

I read it on the internet.    Really, it wasn't something I spontaneously made up.

How about, if you indeed save them locally but stop paying (therefore don't have CS6) can you open the files in CS5?

billythek Veteran Member • Posts: 5,260
Re: What is CC ?

billythek wrote:

"Yes, I am one of those suckers who fell for Adobe's insidious $10/month CC + LR deal. So far I like it."

Is it true that any files you save have to be saved to the CC (if that's how it's described) and if you stop paying your $10/month you can't open the files?

Where did you get that ridiculous idea? No. The application is run locally on your machine just like CS6. The is some storage on the cloud that you can use, but you don't have to.

The only requirement for internet is every 3 months the application needs to touch base with the license server.
--
- Bill

I read it on the internet.    Really, it wasn't something I spontaneously made up.

How about, if you indeed save them locally but stop paying (therefore don't have CS6) can you open the files in CS5?

Why wouldn't you have CS6 if you wanted it? CS6 is different than CC.

If you save files as JPG or TIFF you can open them with pretty much anything. Not sure if you would have problems with opening PSD files from CC in CS6. I suspect not, but I haven't tried. But I don't use PSD files in my flow.
--
- Bill

 billythek's gear list:billythek's gear list
DxO One Canon EOS 5D Mark III Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II USM Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II USM
toomanycanons Forum Pro • Posts: 12,114
Re: What is CC ?

billythek wrote:

billythek wrote:

"Yes, I am one of those suckers who fell for Adobe's insidious $10/month CC + LR deal. So far I like it."

Is it true that any files you save have to be saved to the CC (if that's how it's described) and if you stop paying your $10/month you can't open the files?

Where did you get that ridiculous idea? No. The application is run locally on your machine just like CS6. The is some storage on the cloud that you can use, but you don't have to.

The only requirement for internet is every 3 months the application needs to touch base with the license server.
--
- Bill

I read it on the internet. Really, it wasn't something I spontaneously made up.

How about, if you indeed save them locally but stop paying (therefore don't have CS6) can you open the files in CS5?

Why wouldn't you have CS6 if you wanted it? CS6 is different than CC.

If you save files as JPG or TIFF you can open them with pretty much anything. Not sure if you would have problems with opening PSD files from CC in CS6. I suspect not, but I haven't tried. But I don't use PSD files in my flow.
--
- Bill

AFIK, you can't buy just CS6, it has to be a part of the whole CC thing. Yes, you download CS6 to your computer but it reverts to being a "trial" if you stop paying your yearly or monthly subscription to CC.

Go on to Amazon and show me where I can indeed just buy a copy of CS6.

billythek Veteran Member • Posts: 5,260
Re: What is CC ?

billythek wrote:

billythek wrote:

"Yes, I am one of those suckers who fell for Adobe's insidious $10/month CC + LR deal. So far I like it."

Is it true that any files you save have to be saved to the CC (if that's how it's described) and if you stop paying your $10/month you can't open the files?

Where did you get that ridiculous idea? No. The application is run locally on your machine just like CS6. The is some storage on the cloud that you can use, but you don't have to.

The only requirement for internet is every 3 months the application needs to touch base with the license server.
--
- Bill

I read it on the internet. Really, it wasn't something I spontaneously made up.

How about, if you indeed save them locally but stop paying (therefore don't have CS6) can you open the files in CS5?

Why wouldn't you have CS6 if you wanted it? CS6 is different than CC.

If you save files as JPG or TIFF you can open them with pretty much anything. Not sure if you would have problems with opening PSD files from CC in CS6. I suspect not, but I haven't tried. But I don't use PSD files in my flow.
--
- Bill

AFIK, you can't buy just CS6, it has to be a part of the whole CC thing. Yes, you download CS6 to your computer but it reverts to being a "trial" if you stop paying your yearly or monthly subscription to CC.

Go on to Amazon and show me where I can indeed just buy a copy of CS6.

Study some more.
--
- Bill

 billythek's gear list:billythek's gear list
DxO One Canon EOS 5D Mark III Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II USM Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II USM
toomanycanons Forum Pro • Posts: 12,114
Re: What is CC ?

billythek wrote:

billythek wrote:

billythek wrote:

"Yes, I am one of those suckers who fell for Adobe's insidious $10/month CC + LR deal. So far I like it."

Is it true that any files you save have to be saved to the CC (if that's how it's described) and if you stop paying your $10/month you can't open the files?

Where did you get that ridiculous idea? No. The application is run locally on your machine just like CS6. The is some storage on the cloud that you can use, but you don't have to.

The only requirement for internet is every 3 months the application needs to touch base with the license server.
--
- Bill

I read it on the internet. Really, it wasn't something I spontaneously made up.

How about, if you indeed save them locally but stop paying (therefore don't have CS6) can you open the files in CS5?

Why wouldn't you have CS6 if you wanted it? CS6 is different than CC.

If you save files as JPG or TIFF you can open them with pretty much anything. Not sure if you would have problems with opening PSD files from CC in CS6. I suspect not, but I haven't tried. But I don't use PSD files in my flow.
--
- Bill

AFIK, you can't buy just CS6, it has to be a part of the whole CC thing. Yes, you download CS6 to your computer but it reverts to being a "trial" if you stop paying your yearly or monthly subscription to CC.

Go on to Amazon and show me where I can indeed just buy a copy of CS6.

Study some more.
--
- Bill

Well, that was convoluted. I finally found out how on an Adobe forum:

"You can still upgrade from Photoshop CS5 to CS6. $199 USD for non-extended versions. It is a little hidden and very convoluted, but from Adobe home page go Products > Creative Suite 6 > Photoshop CS6 > Buy CS6 > Photoshop CS6> Buy ($699) and where it says "I want to buy: Full" click on "Full" dropdown menu and choose "Upgrade", then choose CS5 from the "I own" dropdown menu. You should see the price drop to $199"  Whew.

tko Forum Pro • Posts: 12,420
no presets

1.) Open RAW
2.) Look at image
3.) Do what needs to be done based on my vision
4.) Export to PS and finish.

No, I'm not being snide. To me, presets are just rules waiting to be broken.

-- hide signature --

professional cynic and contrarian: don't take it personally

Jim Cassatt Veteran Member • Posts: 4,859
Re: With your 5D3 raw files, what's your lightroom develop workflow?

Depends on what I a shooting.  These days I use my 5DMKIII mainly for portraits.  So I start at the top, adjusting exposure and wb plus contrast if necessary.  Sometimes I have to play with the shadows and highlightshighlights.  I generally don't sharpen portraits.  If I also want to do B&W, I will make a duplicate copy.  For any extensive retouching, I move to Photoshop.  Any final cropping or printing is done in LR.

For landscapes or cityscapes, I have been using my Fuji X-E2.  There I start at the bottom after first doing a global adjustment of the wb.  I love the Velvia setting.  It really pops the colors.  I then level and adjust the verticals.  Then I adjust the sharpening.  Moving up, I use selective color luminence and saturation, especially for the skies.  Moving further up, I adjust the exposure and contrast as needed and finish off bt playing with the clarity and vibrancy.

-- hide signature --
 Jim Cassatt's gear list:Jim Cassatt's gear list
Fujifilm X10 Canon EOS 40D Canon EOS 300D Canon EOS 5D Mark III Fujifilm X-E1 +24 more
toomanycanons Forum Pro • Posts: 12,114
Re: no presets
1

tko wrote:

1.) Open RAW
2.) Look at image
3.) Do what needs to be done based on my vision
4.) Export to PS and finish.

No, I'm not being snide. To me, presets are just rules waiting to be broken.

-- hide signature --

professional cynic and contrarian: don't take it personally

My own personal presets come in real handy when I'm importing 100 images I need to work on.

MiraShootsNikon Contributing Member • Posts: 843
The Order that Works for Me
2

The Photo Ninja wrote:

Do you use the camera calibration tab? First, second, last? Which setting do you use?

What other tweaks do you use on the majority of images?

My basic routine: Spot / Retouch --> Exposure --> Contrast and Tone --> Color --> Sharpen / Detail.

Step-by-step, that means that on Import, I:

[1] Brush --> Clone / Heal. I do this first because cloning / healing is most responsive before you've accumulated a stack of edits the system needs to churn through to render them.

[2] Crop / Rotate.

[3] Camera Calibration --> Profile: I pick the look I want to start with, which often corresponds to the camera mode I shot with.

[4] Basic --> Exposure: I adjust to suit.

[5] Tone Curve --> Point Curve, Custom, RGB: I set the black point, adjust the white point, and create a tone curve that gives me the contrast and general tone I want. Usually I use the target adjustment tool to set and level the points.

[6] Gradient and/or Brush --> Exposure: I dodge / burn any selective areas to suit.

[7.1] Basic --> Shadows: infrequently adjust to suit (usually between 0 and +15)

[7.2] Basic --> Highlights: infrequently adjust to suit (usually between 0 and -15)

[7.3] Basic --> White Balance: adjust to suit.

(I almost never touch the contrast or the black and white sliders, mostly because I already set these points more definitively when creating my tone curve.)

[8.1] Basic --> Saturation: adjust to suit--get a baseline color level.

[8.2] Basic --> Vibrance: adjust to suit--tweak the baseline I set with Saturation.

(I almost never touch the Clarity slider. I think that what it does in either direction is gimmicky and ugly.)

[9] Tone Curve --> Point Curve, Custom, Channels: here I adjust the individual channel curves to hit the image's final color. Often I'm just setting black / white / mid levels for the red, green, blue curves to get true black, true white, etc., but for many fashion images I'll also tone / crop shadows or highlights, or create a cross-processed look, here.

[10] HSL --> Hue: any quick final color adjustments to suit.

(I almost never touch Saturation or Luminance.)

(I also almost never touch Split Toning. I tend to do my black-and-whites in NIK Silver Efex Pro.)

[11] Brush --> any detail adjustments: brightening eyes, adjusting eye color, selective sharpening of facial features and wardrobe details.

[12.1] Detail --> Sharpening, Amount: pull positive just to "cut" through any AA filter haze, not to actually add acuity.

[12.2] Detail --> Sharpening, Radius: pull to match your lens's smallest projected airy disk over your sensor's pixel grid. I.e., if your lens projected pin-point sharpness that corresponds to one-and-a-half of your sensor's pixels, your radius is 1.5. Back when I was shooting a Nikon D2Hs with massive pixels, I almost always set this below 1. Now, with the 5D3's much smaller pixels, I'm usually around 1 - 1.3.

[12.3] Detail --> Sharpening, Detail: pull to add deconvolution sharpening. Again, I'm not trying add acuity I didn't capture, just trying to maximize what the sensor got. Usually between 28 and 35.

(I don't touch Masking. I think masking your RAW pre-sharpeneing gives photographs an uneven, "choppy" texture. I also don't ever really use Noise Reduction. I'd always rather take the noise than lose the acuity.)

[13.1] Lens Corrections --> Basic: check Enable Profile Corrections and Remove Chromatic Aberration

(Sometimes I will back down the Lightroom default lens vignetting correction and keep a little of the lens's natural fall-off.)

[13.2] Lens Corrections --> Manual: correct geometry to suit, if necessary.

FINIS!

 MiraShootsNikon's gear list:MiraShootsNikon's gear list
Olympus OM-D E-M5 Canon EOS 5D Mark III Nikon D750 Sony Alpha a7R II Canon EF 35mm F1.4L USM +22 more
toomanycanons Forum Pro • Posts: 12,114
Re: With your 5D3 raw files, what's your lightroom develop workflow?
1

So, Photo Ninja, here's one of your quotes from another thread:

"Also, as much as I don't like post processing, it really is something that you MUST do if you are going to get the most out of your images from your 5D3."

Now that you've heard us going on and on on this thread, tell me:  what post processing did you do before you asked us about our LR workflow?

toomanycanons Forum Pro • Posts: 12,114
Re: The Order that Works for Me

MiraShootsNikon wrote:

The Photo Ninja wrote:

Do you use the camera calibration tab? First, second, last? Which setting do you use?

What other tweaks do you use on the majority of images?

My basic routine: Spot / Retouch --> Exposure --> Contrast and Tone --> Color --> Sharpen / Detail.

Step-by-step, that means that on Import, I:

[1] Brush --> Clone / Heal. I do this first because cloning / healing is most responsive before you've accumulated a stack of edits the system needs to churn through to render them.

[2] Crop / Rotate.

[3] Camera Calibration --> Profile: I pick the look I want to start with, which often corresponds to the camera mode I shot with.

[4] Basic --> Exposure: I adjust to suit.

[5] Tone Curve --> Point Curve, Custom, RGB: I set the black point, adjust the white point, and create a tone curve that gives me the contrast and general tone I want. Usually I use the target adjustment tool to set and level the points.

[6] Gradient and/or Brush --> Exposure: I dodge / burn any selective areas to suit.

[7.1] Basic --> Shadows: infrequently adjust to suit (usually between 0 and +15)

[7.2] Basic --> Highlights: infrequently adjust to suit (usually between 0 and -15)

[7.3] Basic --> White Balance: adjust to suit.

(I almost never touch the contrast or the black and white sliders, mostly because I already set these points more definitively when creating my tone curve.)

[8.1] Basic --> Saturation: adjust to suit--get a baseline color level.

[8.2] Basic --> Vibrance: adjust to suit--tweak the baseline I set with Saturation.

(I almost never touch the Clarity slider. I think that what it does in either direction is gimmicky and ugly.)

[9] Tone Curve --> Point Curve, Custom, Channels: here I adjust the individual channel curves to hit the image's final color. Often I'm just setting black / white / mid levels for the red, green, blue curves to get true black, true white, etc., but for many fashion images I'll also tone / crop shadows or highlights, or create a cross-processed look, here.

[10] HSL --> Hue: any quick final color adjustments to suit.

(I almost never touch Saturation or Luminance.)

(I also almost never touch Split Toning. I tend to do my black-and-whites in NIK Silver Efex Pro.)

[11] Brush --> any detail adjustments: brightening eyes, adjusting eye color, selective sharpening of facial features and wardrobe details.

[12.1] Detail --> Sharpening, Amount: pull positive just to "cut" through any AA filter haze, not to actually add acuity.

[12.2] Detail --> Sharpening, Radius: pull to match your lens's smallest projected airy disk over your sensor's pixel grid. I.e., if your lens projected pin-point sharpness that corresponds to one-and-a-half of your sensor's pixels, your radius is 1.5. Back when I was shooting a Nikon D2Hs with massive pixels, I almost always set this below 1. Now, with the 5D3's much smaller pixels, I'm usually around 1 - 1.3.

[12.3] Detail --> Sharpening, Detail: pull to add deconvolution sharpening. Again, I'm not trying add acuity I didn't capture, just trying to maximize what the sensor got. Usually between 28 and 35.

(I don't touch Masking. I think masking your RAW pre-sharpeneing gives photographs an uneven, "choppy" texture. I also don't ever really use Noise Reduction. I'd always rather take the noise than lose the acuity.)

[13.1] Lens Corrections --> Basic: check Enable Profile Corrections and Remove Chromatic Aberration

(Sometimes I will back down the Lightroom default lens vignetting correction and keep a little of the lens's natural fall-off.)

[13.2] Lens Corrections --> Manual: correct geometry to suit, if necessary.

FINIS!

Holy Carp, man.  That's some list.  Enough to scare away a newbie for sure!

MiraShootsNikon Contributing Member • Posts: 843
Don't fear the reaper!

toomanycanons wrote:

MiraShootsNikon wrote:

The Photo Ninja wrote:

Do you use the camera calibration tab? First, second, last? Which setting do you use?

What other tweaks do you use on the majority of images?

My basic routine: Spot / Retouch --> Exposure --> Contrast and Tone --> Color --> Sharpen / Detail.

Step-by-step, that means that on Import, I:

[1] Brush --> Clone / Heal. I do this first because cloning / healing is most responsive before you've accumulated a stack of edits the system needs to churn through to render them.

[2] Crop / Rotate.

[3] Camera Calibration --> Profile: I pick the look I want to start with, which often corresponds to the camera mode I shot with.

[4] Basic --> Exposure: I adjust to suit.

[5] Tone Curve --> Point Curve, Custom, RGB: I set the black point, adjust the white point, and create a tone curve that gives me the contrast and general tone I want. Usually I use the target adjustment tool to set and level the points.

[6] Gradient and/or Brush --> Exposure: I dodge / burn any selective areas to suit.

[7.1] Basic --> Shadows: infrequently adjust to suit (usually between 0 and +15)

[7.2] Basic --> Highlights: infrequently adjust to suit (usually between 0 and -15)

[7.3] Basic --> White Balance: adjust to suit.

(I almost never touch the contrast or the black and white sliders, mostly because I already set these points more definitively when creating my tone curve.)

[8.1] Basic --> Saturation: adjust to suit--get a baseline color level.

[8.2] Basic --> Vibrance: adjust to suit--tweak the baseline I set with Saturation.

(I almost never touch the Clarity slider. I think that what it does in either direction is gimmicky and ugly.)

[9] Tone Curve --> Point Curve, Custom, Channels: here I adjust the individual channel curves to hit the image's final color. Often I'm just setting black / white / mid levels for the red, green, blue curves to get true black, true white, etc., but for many fashion images I'll also tone / crop shadows or highlights, or create a cross-processed look, here.

[10] HSL --> Hue: any quick final color adjustments to suit.

(I almost never touch Saturation or Luminance.)

(I also almost never touch Split Toning. I tend to do my black-and-whites in NIK Silver Efex Pro.)

[11] Brush --> any detail adjustments: brightening eyes, adjusting eye color, selective sharpening of facial features and wardrobe details.

[12.1] Detail --> Sharpening, Amount: pull positive just to "cut" through any AA filter haze, not to actually add acuity.

[12.2] Detail --> Sharpening, Radius: pull to match your lens's smallest projected airy disk over your sensor's pixel grid. I.e., if your lens projected pin-point sharpness that corresponds to one-and-a-half of your sensor's pixels, your radius is 1.5. Back when I was shooting a Nikon D2Hs with massive pixels, I almost always set this below 1. Now, with the 5D3's much smaller pixels, I'm usually around 1 - 1.3.

[12.3] Detail --> Sharpening, Detail: pull to add deconvolution sharpening. Again, I'm not trying add acuity I didn't capture, just trying to maximize what the sensor got. Usually between 28 and 35.

(I don't touch Masking. I think masking your RAW pre-sharpeneing gives photographs an uneven, "choppy" texture. I also don't ever really use Noise Reduction. I'd always rather take the noise than lose the acuity.)

[13.1] Lens Corrections --> Basic: check Enable Profile Corrections and Remove Chromatic Aberration

(Sometimes I will back down the Lightroom default lens vignetting correction and keep a little of the lens's natural fall-off.)

[13.2] Lens Corrections --> Manual: correct geometry to suit, if necessary.

FINIS!

Holy Carp, man. That's some list. Enough to scare away a newbie for sure!

Post processing takes what it takes, ya know?

But it certainly takes waaaaaay longer to write it out or to read this procedure than to actually do it. I had to really think about it to actually explain it--it's kind of just instinct / habit / muscle memory at this point.

 MiraShootsNikon's gear list:MiraShootsNikon's gear list
Olympus OM-D E-M5 Canon EOS 5D Mark III Nikon D750 Sony Alpha a7R II Canon EF 35mm F1.4L USM +22 more
OP The Photo Ninja Senior Member • Posts: 2,242
Very detailed!

Thanks for taking the time to write this down!

OP The Photo Ninja Senior Member • Posts: 2,242
Re: With your 5D3 raw files, what's your lightroom develop workflow?

I fight with all the sliders, curves, etc. I've used lightroom for years, use the custom profiles, created my own, etc. I love lightroom for organization, but really hate Adobe Standard. Camera standard looks ok, but the other profiles just don't look exactly the same as they do in camera.

I really wish there were more starting places. Specifically other dng profiles. It's raw photos, why can't I make them look like fuji or Nikon or some other brand in the camera calibration mode? There are kiss profiles, but I tried then years ago for Nikon and they were so so. I love alien skin exposure, but it's more of a finisher not editor (I really wish that program would take raw files).

More and more I use DxO. I can start with a film preset, a different camera profile, and tweak from there.

Still, I know lightroom is the de facto standard and I have it with the creative cloud, so I fight with it.

I use photo mechanic -> dxo -> photoshop if I want -> then store in lightroom.

Lightroom can do pretty much everything, but I keep looking for a magic thing I'm missing, but in the end, I can't quite get the exact colors I like. I can however in dxo.

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