Do you think Canon will take on the A7?

Started Apr 19, 2014 | Discussions
DFPanno
DFPanno Veteran Member • Posts: 5,481
I hope you are kidding…...
6

NewForce wrote:

Because Sony DSLT can't compete with Canikon, thus they change the their marketing strategic by offering mirrorless in the hope they could steal some market. But that too failed tremendously.

After tried and disappointed with Sony mirrorless, people realized Canikon DSLR still way to go for great picture taking. So in facts, people who's tried mirrorless, they are more swear by Canikon DSLR cameras ability.

Due to that Sony released another 3 mirrorless body, only this time with FF sensor. A7 didn't cut it, only A7R with special developed FF sensor for very short flange focal distance which wasn't ideal for good images, together with expensive Zeiss lens has managed to shine a bit. But with the very limited FE lenses range availability, probably Sony fate just repeating where they've flopped with their mirrorless cameras.

So it is something Canon and Nikon wouldn't even bother to take on. Full stop.

Or maybe Sony should take on Canon and Nikon, by offering DSLR camera with normal FFD?

Total disconnect from reality.

RedFox88 Forum Pro • Posts: 28,453
Re: Sony has no interest in taking on the 5D3…….
4

DFPanno wrote:

RedFox88 wrote:

jimzenglish wrote:

Ok this is probably complete conjecture but do you think or would you welcome Canon doing a competitor to the A7 and coming out with a mirrorless full frame body to use with it's existing lenses?

Do you think sony will take on the 5D3? They seem to be ready to let their a-mount die out. So do you think sony will have an "answer" for the 5D3 and 1D X for professional sports photographers? My guess is no. sony doesn't sit still long enough to do anything really good. Too many products. They say they are into making new products. But pro photographers don't want a new type of camera every 2 years, they need quality products and quality high end lenses and that isn't sony's motto.

Sony is struggling to find a permanent place among the big three and it seems (for the moment) that they have given up on going mano-a-mano with Canikon.

In the meantime the have 5 of the most inovative cameras on the market and many FF DSLR users are giving them up to buy Sony FF mirrorless.

The sensor and its associated elctronics is the heart of the camera body and that world is currently owned by Sony.

Having fun trolling?!  Canon is doing pretty darn well making their own camera, own CPUs, image sensors, and lenses.  They don't need zeiss to make lenses they don't have the ability to make.

My guess is that Sony/Zeiss will produce the required lenses bsfore Canon has the required sensor but that is nothing more than speculation on my part.

A trolling speculation at that. And it also depends on which mount you are talking about, the e-mount of the soon to be discontinued a-mount?  sony users can't rely on sony to dedicate to a product or system.

quiquae Senior Member • Posts: 1,066
Re: Do you think Canon will take on the A7?
1

gipper51 wrote:

I don't think we'll see a mirrorless FF body until Canon can solve how to make phase detection lenses (EOS) autofocus well with contrast detection AF systems. Apparently that is a problem not easily solved. Without that solution I doubt they will release such a camera.

70D's DPAF, which is a phase detection AF system, appears to be Canon's solution to that problem.

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DFPanno
DFPanno Veteran Member • Posts: 5,481
Spare me your "troll" accusations…….
4

RedFox88 wrote:

DFPanno wrote:

RedFox88 wrote:

jimzenglish wrote:

Ok this is probably complete conjecture but do you think or would you welcome Canon doing a competitor to the A7 and coming out with a mirrorless full frame body to use with it's existing lenses?

Do you think sony will take on the 5D3? They seem to be ready to let their a-mount die out. So do you think sony will have an "answer" for the 5D3 and 1D X for professional sports photographers? My guess is no. sony doesn't sit still long enough to do anything really good. Too many products. They say they are into making new products. But pro photographers don't want a new type of camera every 2 years, they need quality products and quality high end lenses and that isn't sony's motto.

Sony is struggling to find a permanent place among the big three and it seems (for the moment) that they have given up on going mano-a-mano with Canikon.

In the meantime the have 5 of the most inovative cameras on the market and many FF DSLR users are giving them up to buy Sony FF mirrorless.

The sensor and its associated elctronics is the heart of the camera body and that world is currently owned by Sony.

Having fun trolling?! Canon is doing pretty darn well making their own camera, own CPUs, image sensors, and lenses. They don't need zeiss to make lenses they don't have the ability to make.

LOL - yes, the fact that they make their own sensors is a huge part of the problem.

My guess is that Sony/Zeiss will produce the required lenses bsfore Canon has the required sensor but that is nothing more than speculation on my part.

A trolling speculation at that. And it also depends on which mount you are talking about, the e-mount of the soon to be discontinued a-mount? sony users can't rely on sony to dedicate to a product or system.

I have shot digital Canon since 2002 and there is a good chance that I have spent as much, if not more, money with Canon than you have over that period of time.

The fact is my Canon credentials are unambiguous and as such I can voice my opinion on the company without needing to listen to "Redfox88" (with no gear or galleries) label me a troll.

Perhaps you don't know what a troll is…...

(Then again you may not know what a fanboy is either)

NewForce Senior Member • Posts: 1,263
Re: I hope you are kidding…...

DFPanno wrote:

NewForce wrote:

Because Sony DSLT can't compete with Canikon, thus they change the their marketing strategic by offering mirrorless in the hope they could steal some market. But that too failed tremendously.

After tried and disappointed with Sony mirrorless, people realized Canikon DSLR still way to go for great picture taking. So in facts, people who's tried mirrorless, they are more swear by Canikon DSLR cameras ability.

Due to that Sony released another 3 mirrorless body, only this time with FF sensor. A7 didn't cut it, only A7R with special developed FF sensor for very short flange focal distance which wasn't ideal for good images, together with expensive Zeiss lens has managed to shine a bit. But with the very limited FE lenses range availability, probably Sony fate just repeating where they've flopped with their mirrorless cameras.

So it is something Canon and Nikon wouldn't even bother to take on. Full stop.

Or maybe Sony should take on Canon and Nikon, by offering DSLR camera with normal FFD?

Total disconnect from reality.

I can understand why.

-- hide signature --

Kenny

Symtex Regular Member • Posts: 474
Re: I hope you are kidding…...
4

As an owner of both camera. I can tell you that Canon user are really missing out on an world class sensor. The raw are so clean to work with. So much resolution. It you want to do landscape or architectural photography that doesn't require fast AF, the Sony A7r is a much better camera overall.  Focus peaking is a blessing for user who has manual lenses like the tilt-shift or the Samyang.

Thanks to metabone, I can use all my EF glass on my Sony body. Not only that, I can use about any rangefinder lens with a cheap adapter. Why limit yourself to 1 tool ? When I want to shoot sports or bird, I just take my Mark III with me.

-- hide signature --

Canon 5D Mark III, Canon EF 24-105L, EF 100-400L , Sony A7r, Sony FE 55mm F1.8

Neil Schofield Contributing Member • Posts: 553
Re: Canon has the following problems to consider…...
2

Firstly whilst we on hear are usually enthusiasts, there are an awful lot of folks who have now bought into another system, be it Fuji, Sony ,or M43

They have generally done so for lightweight/travel kit reasons

indeed I now own just two bodies, a 1DX, and an OMD1

So Canon is basically loosing sales to existing customers

This is further exasperated by Sigma starting to produce better and cheaper lenses which can compete with some L glass at the short end, and Tamron with the introduction of the 150-600which will surely have an impact on sales of not only the existing 100-400 But also any mark 2 if ever released

Every Sigma, Tamron,Tokina, Zeiss sale for a Canon dslr is a Canon sale lost, and I am not too confident that canon understands that, as a 50mm and 500 f5.6 are at least a decade overdue for replacement or introduction

The next bit of kit I buy from canon will most likely be the 7d replacement, so it may be some wait

(unknown member) Veteran Member • Posts: 5,590
Give it a rest
2

Listening to you lot is like being in a school playground full of kids playing Top Trumps.

roustabout66 Contributing Member • Posts: 703
Re: That's just silly.......
2

DFPanno wrote:

RedFox88 wrote:

DFPanno wrote:

I haven't purchased from Canon since I got my 5D3 at its introduction.

I have spent a small fortune on Sony and will spend another small fortune next week on an A7R and a full compliment of lenses.

Canon has a lot of work to do before I buy from them again.

Sorry but Canon's aim is not to keep up with sony because sony is a moving target. Creating too many products and not concentrating on solid product lines. Like their boondoggle "Q" cameras, they are ready to let their a-mount die and go completely mirrorless regardless if their customers want an OVF.

I would be happy if they would start with a sensor that can go head-to-head with the one in my RX1.

Basically all image sensors are equal if you aren't into lifting shadows by 6 stops or under exposing by 6 stops and brightening the image. It's only the gadget junkies on here that call Canon image sensors poor - and that's a tiny percentage of camera users!

I can guarentee you "dollars to donuts" the you have no experience with Sonys current crop of cameras.

Based upon the losses in the camera division at Sony, it would seem that few people have any experience with Sony's current cameras. I would be more concerned with Sony dropping out of the camera market than Canon responding to any Sony camera.

If you did you would never make those statements.

They are operating on another plane but if you like to think they are all equal be my guest.

Incidently - IBM and GM were other "too big to fail" companies that operated under the delusion that the industry revolved around them.

NewForce Senior Member • Posts: 1,263
Re: Canon has the following problems to consider…...
2

NeilSDPR wrote:

Firstly whilst we on hear are usually enthusiasts, there are an awful lot of folks who have now bought into another system, be it Fuji, Sony ,or M43

They have generally done so for lightweight/travel kit reasons

indeed I now own just two bodies, a 1DX, and an OMD1

So Canon is basically loosing sales to existing customers

This is further exasperated by Sigma starting to produce better and cheaper lenses which can compete with some L glass at the short end, and Tamron with the introduction of the 150-600which will surely have an impact on sales of not only the existing 100-400 But also any mark 2 if ever released

Every Sigma, Tamron,Tokina, Zeiss sale for a Canon dslr is a Canon sale lost, and I am not too confident that canon understands that, as a 50mm and 500 f5.6 are at least a decade overdue for replacement or introduction

The next bit of kit I buy from canon will most likely be the 7d replacement, so it may be some wait

Your observations quite wrong. I can tell basically there's some fall into "nobody and somebody syndrome". Well that's other story I'll not go into debate here.

Majority Canon users purchased and uses only original lenses. This is because most people have more confident on Canon IQ and trusted their lenses reliability as a whole camera system, even if they are more expensive. If they couldn't find their need within Canon offering, then only they look for 3rd party alternative.

Only minority enthusiast users buy into 3rd party lenses, when they look for better value for money, or special developed range lenses that Canon not offering.

-- hide signature --

Kenny

RedFox88 Forum Pro • Posts: 28,453
Re: That's just silly.......

DFPanno wrote:


Incidently - IBM and GM were other "too big to fail" companies that operated under the delusion that the industry revolved around them.

I think you are the delusional one.  IBM hasn't failed or gone bankrupt.  I never brought up GM or IBM.  IBM over the past decades has transitioned their company from making the personal computer to an IT solution and services company.

The Davinator
The Davinator Forum Pro • Posts: 20,802
Re: Canon has the following problems to consider…...
7

NewForce wrote:

NeilSDPR wrote:

Firstly whilst we on hear are usually enthusiasts, there are an awful lot of folks who have now bought into another system, be it Fuji, Sony ,or M43

They have generally done so for lightweight/travel kit reasons

indeed I now own just two bodies, a 1DX, and an OMD1

So Canon is basically loosing sales to existing customers

This is further exasperated by Sigma starting to produce better and cheaper lenses which can compete with some L glass at the short end, and Tamron with the introduction of the 150-600which will surely have an impact on sales of not only the existing 100-400 But also any mark 2 if ever released

Every Sigma, Tamron,Tokina, Zeiss sale for a Canon dslr is a Canon sale lost, and I am not too confident that canon understands that, as a 50mm and 500 f5.6 are at least a decade overdue for replacement or introduction

The next bit of kit I buy from canon will most likely be the 7d replacement, so it may be some wait

Your observations quite wrong. I can tell basically there's some fall into "nobody and somebody syndrome". Well that's other story I'll not go into debate here.

Majority Canon users purchased and uses only original lenses. This is because most people have more confident on Canon IQ and trusted their lenses reliability as a whole camera system, even if they are more expensive. If they couldn't find their need within Canon offering, then only they look for 3rd party alternative.

Only minority enthusiast users buy into 3rd party lenses, when they look for better value for money, or special developed range lenses that Canon not offering.

oh really? Minority enthusiasts?  My, you have alot to learn.

-- hide signature --

Kenny

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Canon PowerShot G3 Canon PowerShot SX150 IS Canon EOS D30 Nikon D2X Fujifilm X-Pro1 +16 more
NewForce Senior Member • Posts: 1,263
Re: Canon has the following problems to consider…...
1

Dave Luttmann wrote:

NewForce wrote:

NeilSDPR wrote:

Firstly whilst we on hear are usually enthusiasts, there are an awful lot of folks who have now bought into another system, be it Fuji, Sony ,or M43

They have generally done so for lightweight/travel kit reasons

indeed I now own just two bodies, a 1DX, and an OMD1

So Canon is basically loosing sales to existing customers

This is further exasperated by Sigma starting to produce better and cheaper lenses which can compete with some L glass at the short end, and Tamron with the introduction of the 150-600which will surely have an impact on sales of not only the existing 100-400 But also any mark 2 if ever released

Every Sigma, Tamron,Tokina, Zeiss sale for a Canon dslr is a Canon sale lost, and I am not too confident that canon understands that, as a 50mm and 500 f5.6 are at least a decade overdue for replacement or introduction

The next bit of kit I buy from canon will most likely be the 7d replacement, so it may be some wait

Your observations quite wrong. I can tell basically there's some fall into "nobody and somebody syndrome". Well that's other story I'll not go into debate here.

Majority Canon users purchased and uses only original lenses. This is because most people have more confident on Canon IQ and trusted their lenses reliability as a whole camera system, even if they are more expensive. If they couldn't find their need within Canon offering, then only they look for 3rd party alternative.

Only minority enthusiast users buy into 3rd party lenses, when they look for better value for money, or special developed range lenses that Canon not offering.

oh really? Minority enthusiasts? My, you have alot to learn.

Same learning for you too.

Just in case you didn't know or ignore the facts on purpose, 90% and above lens sold in Canon system resale market was Canon original lenses. This is true facts at least in Asia.

Well the 3rd party lenses, even they go by thousands, think most will agree with me less than 10% they are consider minority. And let's not forget this less than 10% percentage is still to be divided into at least 3 third party lens brands.

-- hide signature --

Kenny

DFPanno
DFPanno Veteran Member • Posts: 5,481
Well; that's just silly too.......
4

roustabout66 wrote:

DFPanno wrote:

RedFox88 wrote:

DFPanno wrote:

I haven't purchased from Canon since I got my 5D3 at its introduction.

I have spent a small fortune on Sony and will spend another small fortune next week on an A7R and a full compliment of lenses.

Canon has a lot of work to do before I buy from them again.

Sorry but Canon's aim is not to keep up with sony because sony is a moving target. Creating too many products and not concentrating on solid product lines. Like their boondoggle "Q" cameras, they are ready to let their a-mount die and go completely mirrorless regardless if their customers want an OVF.

I would be happy if they would start with a sensor that can go head-to-head with the one in my RX1.

Basically all image sensors are equal if you aren't into lifting shadows by 6 stops or under exposing by 6 stops and brightening the image. It's only the gadget junkies on here that call Canon image sensors poor - and that's a tiny percentage of camera users!

I can guarentee you "dollars to donuts" the you have no experience with Sonys current crop of cameras.

Based upon the losses in the camera division at Sony, it would seem that few people have any experience with Sony's current cameras. I would be more concerned with Sony dropping out of the camera market than Canon responding to any Sony camera.

One has nothing to do with other now does it?

The Sony FF mirrorless have been extremely popular  and are selling quite well.

While it is possible that Sony could collaspse I would doubt it very, very, much.  It is more likely that they would be bought or merge.

I could see a number of other companies folding before Sony.

The problem here is that only a handful of people shoot both companies and thus have a posteriori knowledge with regard to these comparisons.

Everybody else is either "internet learned" or a fanboy.

The simple truth is that anyone that works these files day-to-day will tell you that those coming out of the Sony FF cameras are on another plane.

That said; if it pleases individuals with emotional or economic attachments to Canon to hold and advance the notion that they are equal then that is fine by me…….

If you did you would never make those statements.

They are operating on another plane but if you like to think they are all equal be my guest.

Incidently - IBM and GM were other "too big to fail" companies that operated under the delusion that the industry revolved around them.

The Davinator
The Davinator Forum Pro • Posts: 20,802
Re: Canon has the following problems to consider…...
7

NewForce wrote:

Dave Luttmann wrote:

NewForce wrote:

NeilSDPR wrote:

Firstly whilst we on hear are usually enthusiasts, there are an awful lot of folks who have now bought into another system, be it Fuji, Sony ,or M43

They have generally done so for lightweight/travel kit reasons

indeed I now own just two bodies, a 1DX, and an OMD1

So Canon is basically loosing sales to existing customers

This is further exasperated by Sigma starting to produce better and cheaper lenses which can compete with some L glass at the short end, and Tamron with the introduction of the 150-600which will surely have an impact on sales of not only the existing 100-400 But also any mark 2 if ever released

Every Sigma, Tamron,Tokina, Zeiss sale for a Canon dslr is a Canon sale lost, and I am not too confident that canon understands that, as a 50mm and 500 f5.6 are at least a decade overdue for replacement or introduction

The next bit of kit I buy from canon will most likely be the 7d replacement, so it may be some wait

Your observations quite wrong. I can tell basically there's some fall into "nobody and somebody syndrome". Well that's other story I'll not go into debate here.

Majority Canon users purchased and uses only original lenses. This is because most people have more confident on Canon IQ and trusted their lenses reliability as a whole camera system, even if they are more expensive. If they couldn't find their need within Canon offering, then only they look for 3rd party alternative.

Only minority enthusiast users buy into 3rd party lenses, when they look for better value for money, or special developed range lenses that Canon not offering.

oh really? Minority enthusiasts? My, you have alot to learn.

Same learning for you too.

Just in case you didn't know or ignore the facts on purpose, 90% and above lens sold in Canon system resale market was Canon original lenses. This is true facts at least in Asia.

Well the 3rd party lenses, even they go by thousands, think most will agree with me less than 10% they are consider minority. And let's not forget this less than 10% percentage is still to be divided into at least 3 third party lens brands.

That is because 99% of users buy the camera with a kit lens.

You used the term "minority enthusiast" ... As a derogatory term.  What you must mean is minority of users.  You seem to be equating sales figures with quality...which is ridiculous.  A Canon kit lens will sell thousands of times more units than a Zeiss Otus or Sigma Art prime.  Using your logic, the kits lens must be better.

As I said, you have a lot to learn.   It is not just enthusiasts buying third party lenses.  I've been shooting professionally for more than 2 decades and I am well aware of what enthusiasts and pros use.  It appears you are greatly out of your depth....time to check your ego.

-- hide signature --

Kenny

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roustabout66 Contributing Member • Posts: 703
Re: Well; that's just silly too.......

DFPanno wrote:

roustabout66 wrote:

DFPanno wrote:

RedFox88 wrote:

DFPanno wrote:

I haven't purchased from Canon since I got my 5D3 at its introduction.

I have spent a small fortune on Sony and will spend another small fortune next week on an A7R and a full compliment of lenses.

Canon has a lot of work to do before I buy from them again.

Sorry but Canon's aim is not to keep up with sony because sony is a moving target. Creating too many products and not concentrating on solid product lines. Like their boondoggle "Q" cameras, they are ready to let their a-mount die and go completely mirrorless regardless if their customers want an OVF.

I would be happy if they would start with a sensor that can go head-to-head with the one in my RX1.

Basically all image sensors are equal if you aren't into lifting shadows by 6 stops or under exposing by 6 stops and brightening the image. It's only the gadget junkies on here that call Canon image sensors poor - and that's a tiny percentage of camera users!

I can guarentee you "dollars to donuts" the you have no experience with Sonys current crop of cameras.

Based upon the losses in the camera division at Sony, it would seem that few people have any experience with Sony's current cameras. I would be more concerned with Sony dropping out of the camera market than Canon responding to any Sony camera.

One has nothing to do with other now does it?

Of course, profits and viability in the market have MUCH to do with one another

The Sony FF mirrorless have been extremely popular and are selling quite well.

Do you have any numbers to back that up? If they have extremely popular cameras selling quite well at around $2000 a pop why are they losing so much money?

While it is possible that Sony could collaspse I would doubt it very, very, much. It is more likely that they would be bought or merge.

Sony will not fail.....they are profitable and have a lot of cash. The CAMERA DIVISION is bleeding money and has been for some time. Sony does have a history of deserting unprofitable products.

I could see a number of other companies folding before Sony.

The problem here is that only a handful of people shoot both companies and thus have a posteriori knowledge with regard to these comparisons.

Everybody else is either "internet learned" or a fanboy.

The simple truth is that anyone that works these files day-to-day will tell you that those coming out of the Sony FF cameras are on another plane.

You confuse quality with market success. The Betamax was vastly superior to VHS, but who won the market wars?

That said; if it pleases individuals with emotional or economic attachments to Canon to hold and advance the notion that they are equal then that is fine by me…….

Canon is not equal...they dominate DSLR sales and profits and have for some time. Canon and Nikon are the only camera brands making money. All the others are on life support.

If you did you would never make those statements.

They are operating on another plane but if you like to think they are all equal be my guest.

Incidently - IBM and GM were other "too big to fail" companies that operated under the delusion that the industry revolved around them.

Symtex Regular Member • Posts: 474
Re: Sheep mentality
2

roustabout66 wrote:

DFPanno wrote:

roustabout66 wrote:

DFPanno wrote:

RedFox88 wrote:

DFPanno wrote:

I haven't purchased from Canon since I got my 5D3 at its introduction.

I have spent a small fortune on Sony and will spend another small fortune next week on an A7R and a full compliment of lenses.

Canon has a lot of work to do before I buy from them again.

Sorry but Canon's aim is not to keep up with sony because sony is a moving target. Creating too many products and not concentrating on solid product lines. Like their boondoggle "Q" cameras, they are ready to let their a-mount die and go completely mirrorless regardless if their customers want an OVF.

I would be happy if they would start with a sensor that can go head-to-head with the one in my RX1.

Basically all image sensors are equal if you aren't into lifting shadows by 6 stops or under exposing by 6 stops and brightening the image. It's only the gadget junkies on here that call Canon image sensors poor - and that's a tiny percentage of camera users!

I can guarentee you "dollars to donuts" the you have no experience with Sonys current crop of cameras.

Based upon the losses in the camera division at Sony, it would seem that few people have any experience with Sony's current cameras. I would be more concerned with Sony dropping out of the camera market than Canon responding to any Sony camera.

One has nothing to do with other now does it?

Of course, profits and viability in the market have MUCH to do with one another

The Sony FF mirrorless have been extremely popular and are selling quite well.

Do you have any numbers to back that up? If they have extremely popular cameras selling quite well at around $2000 a pop why are they losing so much money?

While it is possible that Sony could collaspse I would doubt it very, very, much. It is more likely that they would be bought or merge.

Sony will not fail.....they are profitable and have a lot of cash. The CAMERA DIVISION is bleeding money and has been for some time. Sony does have a history of deserting unprofitable products.

I could see a number of other companies folding before Sony.

The problem here is that only a handful of people shoot both companies and thus have a posteriori knowledge with regard to these comparisons.

Everybody else is either "internet learned" or a fanboy.

The simple truth is that anyone that works these files day-to-day will tell you that those coming out of the Sony FF cameras are on another plane.

You confuse quality with market success. The Betamax was vastly superior to VHS, but who won the market wars?

That said; if it pleases individuals with emotional or economic attachments to Canon to hold and advance the notion that they are equal then that is fine by me…….

Canon is not equal...they dominate DSLR sales and profits and have for some time. Canon and Nikon are the only camera brands making money. All the others are on life support.

If you did you would never make those statements.

They are operating on another plane but if you like to think they are all equal be my guest.

Incidently - IBM and GM were other "too big to fail" companies that operated under the delusion that the industry revolved around them.

Talk about sheep mentality, your argument is "If everyone is doing it,  you have to do it".  There is plenty of alternative. Olympus/Fuji  has been 2 manufacturer  that has been successful in that space. They have have tons of lens and accessories and they are very viable alternative. Panasonic is about to shake the world with its GH4.

If anything, Nikon and Canon are falling behind on technology. They will have to re-adjust soon because the end user market is shifting. Mirrorless camera are getting to the point where they are very good. Soon they will surpass DSLR.

-- hide signature --

Canon 5D Mark III, Canon EF 24-105L, EF 100-400L , Sony A7r, Sony FE 55mm F1.8

roustabout66 Contributing Member • Posts: 703
Re: Sheep mentality

Symtex wrote:

roustabout66 wrote:

DFPanno wrote:

roustabout66 wrote:

DFPanno wrote:

RedFox88 wrote:

DFPanno wrote:

I haven't purchased from Canon since I got my 5D3 at its introduction.

I have spent a small fortune on Sony and will spend another small fortune next week on an A7R and a full compliment of lenses.

Canon has a lot of work to do before I buy from them again.

Sorry but Canon's aim is not to keep up with sony because sony is a moving target. Creating too many products and not concentrating on solid product lines. Like their boondoggle "Q" cameras, they are ready to let their a-mount die and go completely mirrorless regardless if their customers want an OVF.

I would be happy if they would start with a sensor that can go head-to-head with the one in my RX1.

Basically all image sensors are equal if you aren't into lifting shadows by 6 stops or under exposing by 6 stops and brightening the image. It's only the gadget junkies on here that call Canon image sensors poor - and that's a tiny percentage of camera users!

I can guarentee you "dollars to donuts" the you have no experience with Sonys current crop of cameras.

Based upon the losses in the camera division at Sony, it would seem that few people have any experience with Sony's current cameras. I would be more concerned with Sony dropping out of the camera market than Canon responding to any Sony camera.

One has nothing to do with other now does it?

Of course, profits and viability in the market have MUCH to do with one another

The Sony FF mirrorless have been extremely popular and are selling quite well.

Do you have any numbers to back that up? If they have extremely popular cameras selling quite well at around $2000 a pop why are they losing so much money?

While it is possible that Sony could collaspse I would doubt it very, very, much. It is more likely that they would be bought or merge.

Sony will not fail.....they are profitable and have a lot of cash. The CAMERA DIVISION is bleeding money and has been for some time. Sony does have a history of deserting unprofitable products.

I could see a number of other companies folding before Sony.

The problem here is that only a handful of people shoot both companies and thus have a posteriori knowledge with regard to these comparisons.

Everybody else is either "internet learned" or a fanboy.

The simple truth is that anyone that works these files day-to-day will tell you that those coming out of the Sony FF cameras are on another plane.

You confuse quality with market success. The Betamax was vastly superior to VHS, but who won the market wars?

That said; if it pleases individuals with emotional or economic attachments to Canon to hold and advance the notion that they are equal then that is fine by me…….

Canon is not equal...they dominate DSLR sales and profits and have for some time. Canon and Nikon are the only camera brands making money. All the others are on life support.

If you did you would never make those statements.

They are operating on another plane but if you like to think they are all equal be my guest.

Incidently - IBM and GM were other "too big to fail" companies that operated under the delusion that the industry revolved around them.

Talk about sheep mentality, your argument is "If everyone is doing it, you have to do it".

No, my argument is you have to stay in business to do ANYTHING and to stay in business you must either turn a profit or have a company willing to keep feeding you on life support.

There is plenty of alternative. Olympus/Fuji has been 2 manufacturer that has been successful in that space. They have have tons of lens and accessories and they are very viable alternative. Panasonic is about to shake the world with its GH4.

If Olympus/Fuji have been "successful" why are profits not part of the "success"? Panasonic about to "shake the world" Does "shake the world" mean not being acquired by Canon

If anything, Nikon and Canon are falling behind on technology. They will have to re-adjust soon because the end user market is shifting. Mirrorless camera are getting to the point where they are very good. Soon they will surpass DSLR.

What all you arm chair CEO's don't understand is that Canon and Nikon only care about PROFITS. If quality is the path to profits fine but one does not necessarily equate to the other. Where do you get mirrorless will soon pass DSLR? I thought numbers showed mirrorless sales declining after their initial success everywhere except Japan.

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Canon 5D Mark III, Canon EF 24-105L, EF 100-400L , Sony A7r, Sony FE 55mm F1.8

DFPanno
DFPanno Veteran Member • Posts: 5,481
Re: Well; that's just silly too.......

roustabout66 wrote:

DFPanno wrote:

roustabout66 wrote:

DFPanno wrote:

RedFox88 wrote:

DFPanno wrote:

I haven't purchased from Canon since I got my 5D3 at its introduction.

I have spent a small fortune on Sony and will spend another small fortune next week on an A7R and a full compliment of lenses.

Canon has a lot of work to do before I buy from them again.

Sorry but Canon's aim is not to keep up with sony because sony is a moving target. Creating too many products and not concentrating on solid product lines. Like their boondoggle "Q" cameras, they are ready to let their a-mount die and go completely mirrorless regardless if their customers want an OVF.

I would be happy if they would start with a sensor that can go head-to-head with the one in my RX1.

Basically all image sensors are equal if you aren't into lifting shadows by 6 stops or under exposing by 6 stops and brightening the image. It's only the gadget junkies on here that call Canon image sensors poor - and that's a tiny percentage of camera users!

I can guarentee you "dollars to donuts" the you have no experience with Sonys current crop of cameras.

Based upon the losses in the camera division at Sony, it would seem that few people have any experience with Sony's current cameras. I would be more concerned with Sony dropping out of the camera market than Canon responding to any Sony camera.

One has nothing to do with other now does it?

Of course, profits and viability in the market have MUCH to do with one another

Sony's losses and the popularity have nothing to do with one another. A basic business observation.

The Sony FF mirrorless have been extremely popular and are selling quite well.

Do you have any numbers to back that up? If they have extremely popular cameras selling quite well at around $2000 a pop why are they losing so much money?

It is absurd to suggest that Sony's troubles are a function of their Mirrorless FF sales numbers (and that's what this discussion is about; not their p&S). In fact their new cameras are a highpoint in their sales. They are extremely popular and are selling quite well.

While it is possible that Sony could collaspse I would doubt it very, very, much. It is more likely that they would be bought or merge.

Sony will not fail.....they are profitable and have a lot of cash. The CAMERA DIVISION is bleeding money and has been for some time. Sony does have a history of deserting unprofitable products.

Well that is true but abandoning unprofitable products is understandable. Not good for the consumer necessarily but understandable.

If anything the fact that people are investing in the Alpha in spite of Sony's poor history gives you a measure of how good the new cameras are.

I will be investing close to $6,000.00 in my new Sony Alpha kit. I don't have 6K to spend because I am stupid. I have it because I am very smart and very capable and I have an interest in moving to the next level of IQ and "post-processability".

I could see a number of other companies folding before Sony.

The problem here is that only a handful of people shoot both companies and thus have a posteriori knowledge with regard to these comparisons.

Everybody else is either "internet learned" or a fanboy.

The simple truth is that anyone that works these files day-to-day will tell you that those coming out of the Sony FF cameras are on another plane.

You confuse quality with market success. The Betamax was vastly superior to VHS, but who won the market wars?

You are conflating seperate issues (again); that makes an intelligent discourse difficult…….

That said; if it pleases individuals with emotional or economic attachments to Canon to hold and advance the notion that they are equal then that is fine by me…….

Canon is not equal...they dominate DSLR sales and profits and have for some time. Canon and Nikon are the only camera brands making money. All the others are on life support.

DSLR sales? Yes. But just over the horizon lies a "tipping point" that will see DSLR sales greatly diminish.

Sony's RX100, RX10, RX1s, and Alpha series are advancing the day that this point will arrive.

If Canon does not have "the package" to dominate in this arena they will be in trouble.

¡Viva la Resolución!
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Symtex Regular Member • Posts: 474
Re: Sheep mentality

roustabout66 wrote:

Symtex wrote:

roustabout66 wrote:

DFPanno wrote:

roustabout66 wrote:

DFPanno wrote:

RedFox88 wrote:

DFPanno wrote:

I haven't purchased from Canon since I got my 5D3 at its introduction.

I have spent a small fortune on Sony and will spend another small fortune next week on an A7R and a full compliment of lenses.

Canon has a lot of work to do before I buy from them again.

Sorry but Canon's aim is not to keep up with sony because sony is a moving target. Creating too many products and not concentrating on solid product lines. Like their boondoggle "Q" cameras, they are ready to let their a-mount die and go completely mirrorless regardless if their customers want an OVF.

I would be happy if they would start with a sensor that can go head-to-head with the one in my RX1.

Basically all image sensors are equal if you aren't into lifting shadows by 6 stops or under exposing by 6 stops and brightening the image. It's only the gadget junkies on here that call Canon image sensors poor - and that's a tiny percentage of camera users!

I can guarentee you "dollars to donuts" the you have no experience with Sonys current crop of cameras.

Based upon the losses in the camera division at Sony, it would seem that few people have any experience with Sony's current cameras. I would be more concerned with Sony dropping out of the camera market than Canon responding to any Sony camera.

One has nothing to do with other now does it?

Of course, profits and viability in the market have MUCH to do with one another

The Sony FF mirrorless have been extremely popular and are selling quite well.

Do you have any numbers to back that up? If they have extremely popular cameras selling quite well at around $2000 a pop why are they losing so much money?

While it is possible that Sony could collaspse I would doubt it very, very, much. It is more likely that they would be bought or merge.

Sony will not fail.....they are profitable and have a lot of cash. The CAMERA DIVISION is bleeding money and has been for some time. Sony does have a history of deserting unprofitable products.

I could see a number of other companies folding before Sony.

The problem here is that only a handful of people shoot both companies and thus have a posteriori knowledge with regard to these comparisons.

Everybody else is either "internet learned" or a fanboy.

The simple truth is that anyone that works these files day-to-day will tell you that those coming out of the Sony FF cameras are on another plane.

You confuse quality with market success. The Betamax was vastly superior to VHS, but who won the market wars?

That said; if it pleases individuals with emotional or economic attachments to Canon to hold and advance the notion that they are equal then that is fine by me…….

Canon is not equal...they dominate DSLR sales and profits and have for some time. Canon and Nikon are the only camera brands making money. All the others are on life support.

If you did you would never make those statements.

They are operating on another plane but if you like to think they are all equal be my guest.

Incidently - IBM and GM were other "too big to fail" companies that operated under the delusion that the industry revolved around them.

Talk about sheep mentality, your argument is "If everyone is doing it, you have to do it".

No, my argument is you have to stay in business to do ANYTHING and to stay in business you must either turn a profit or have a company willing to keep feeding you on life support.

There is plenty of alternative. Olympus/Fuji has been 2 manufacturer that has been successful in that space. They have have tons of lens and accessories and they are very viable alternative. Panasonic is about to shake the world with its GH4.

If Olympus/Fuji have been "successful" why are profits not part of the "success"? Panasonic about to "shake the world" Does "shake the world" mean not being acquired by Canon

If anything, Nikon and Canon are falling behind on technology. They will have to re-adjust soon because the end user market is shifting. Mirrorless camera are getting to the point where they are very good. Soon they will surpass DSLR.

What all you arm chair CEO's don't understand is that Canon and Nikon only care about PROFITS. If quality is the path to profits fine but one does not necessarily equate to the other. Where do you get mirrorless will soon pass DSLR? I thought numbers showed mirrorless sales declining after their initial success everywhere except Japan.

For every Canon DSLR, they are thousands of smartphone taking picture. They dominate the world of photography now. Who said Fuji/Olympus is not profitable ? Do you have financial annual reports to share with us?

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Canon 5D Mark III, Canon EF 24-105L, EF 100-400L , Sony A7r, Sony FE 55mm F1.8

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