Is this the best I can expect from D800?

Started Apr 18, 2014 | Discussions
user_name Veteran Member • Posts: 3,134
Re: Pretty Fishy
1

Cliff Fujii wrote:

Have you ever heard of the cobbler whose family all had holes in their shoes?

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Cliff

Was that because he shot P&S Canons?

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Raul Veteran Member • Posts: 8,066
With your experience
2

testing under those conditions and with a Tamron? and jpg?

hmmmm, you should use your experience wisely.

regards

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larrywilson
larrywilson Veteran Member • Posts: 6,289
Re: with a so-so lens at f8 on a so-so day? ;-)

The Tamron 24-70 is just an ok lens, but not great.  I shoot mostly primes (95% of the time), Zeiss and high quality Nikon lens.  With most of the zooms the edge and corners are not nearly as good of resolution as with a quality prime.  I would have shot at base iso on the original posted image and still would have had plenty of fast shutter speed.  I shoot mostly from a tripod, hand holding can contribute to camera shake with normal shutter speeds.  The gray day with the white clouds will not do an image any favors.  I no longer shot birds in flight when they are flyig against a gray sky, they just don't turn out good.  I think I can say that third party zooms are not good tools for any camera especially a high pixel camera.  I shoot raw, so much better than shooting jpg where I can edit with freedom using lossless compression files in 14 bit.

Larry

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Pallke Regular Member • Posts: 157
No, a newbie could do this better...
1

... really !
.
You are what? A pro???
.
Hmmmmm.........very interesting

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best regards
Pallke

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Pete Silver
Pete Silver Contributing Member • Posts: 692
Re: Is this the best I can expect from D800?

Amazing pictures!

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Pete Silver

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MOD TOF guy Forum Pro • Posts: 14,507
Re: Is this the best I can expect from D800?

Cliff wrote:

I generally use a COC of 0.01mm for the D800 especially in macro work. I have found that a COC of 0.03 gives me a DOF that is unusable in macro work.

The closest part of the image from the photographer is the railing on the left. We don't know how close it is from the camera.

But, sure, if it's 14 meters away (possible) or further use the hyperfocal distance of ~27 meters and you're good to go with a COC of 0.01 mm.

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Thierry - posted as regular forum member

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MOD TOF guy Forum Pro • Posts: 14,507
Re: Is this the best I can expect from D800?

Derouyag wrote:

Love the calculation,

Well, nobody carries DOF tables anymore. We have smartphone instead.

Hmm, a thread on DOF calculators could be useful !

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/53525727

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Thierry - posted as regular forum member

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Steve Bingham
Steve Bingham Forum Pro • Posts: 25,458
Very average glass

Well, the edges are soft and the corners even softer. This is a lens problem. Perhaps you have a bad sample. In any case, I would certainly try another lens! At f8 and 46mm I would certainly expect better. The reviews on this lens aren't that good. Let me quote: The Tamron 24-70/2.8 VC delivers a pretty good overall performance - only the FX-corners disappoint especially at 35mm. On an unforgiving 36MP full-frame body you need to stop down to f5.6 to lift FX-corner performance to near good levels.

Most pros I know test their lenses - I know I always did. Still do even though I am retired. Good glass is vital.

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Steve Bingham
Steve Bingham Forum Pro • Posts: 25,458
Re: Pretty Fishy
2

Agreed. Doesn't make sense. The solution is obvious - mediocre glass in the corners and edges. As a retired "pro" who allegedly used a Phase One I am a little suspicious.

MiraShootsNikon wrote:

Sorry, Les. Your story doesn't make any sense.

Your sample photograph is a terrible example with which to judge anything. It's under-exposed by at least a stop, and since there's just zero composition, it's hard to tell what you even want to be well exposed or sharp. The boat? All of it? Who knows.

Also, since it's a JPEG, how do you even know how sharp your camera's output really is?

I just have a hard time believing that someone who's been a working commercial pro for 40 years, shooting daily with a Phase One rig, would use such a completely mindless snapshot as a test example of . . . anything . . . with a group of his peers.

LesGoodey wrote:

Hello, I have been a professional photographer since 1974 working in the Commercial, Military and Education areas. I use Phase medium format equipment in my day job and Canon 5D and 5D11 personally. I recently bought a Nikon D800 with a Tamron SP 24-70 f2.8 for myself and after hundreds of shots I have yet to find a single one that I am happy with!

I have scoured the internet looking for information on achieving sharp images and downloaded as many real world samples as I can find and I have to say I don't think those are any better.

I am talking about hand held shots inparticular and although I'm getting on a bit I don't think I shake that much.

I notice that most recommendations are for higher ISO and shutter speeds than you might otherwise have used.

Here is a full size out of the camera jpeg for your comments:

Nikon D800 Tamron SP24-70 f2.8 - 400th sec at f8 - 250 ISO

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Brandon birder Veteran Member • Posts: 4,118
Re: Is this the best I can expect from D800?
2

Les,

you may like to respond to the scores of replies you have had, or else some may think you are just looking to provoke a reaction.

For what it's worth the image posted is useless for evaluating your stated problem, especially without any feedback from you.

Cliff Fujii
Cliff Fujii Veteran Member • Posts: 8,215
Re: Is this the best I can expect from D800?

I have VWDOF installed on my Microsoft Surface Pro 2 which I use in the field. It really works great, especially for macro shots.  If you have an iPhone, there are depth of field calculators that work also.  SetMyCamera Pro comes to mind.

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Cliff

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John M Roberts Senior Member • Posts: 2,512
Re: 1/125~1/640?

GearGuru wrote:

I agree with Robin, turn image stabilization off. It can introduce a blur especially from 1/125th sec to about 1/640th. Only use it when at very slow shutter speeds of 1/60th or lower or if using long lenses. Also like others said, try manually focusing and see if that helps. Are you shooting RAW and adding sharpening because you will need to add some sharpening? If you are shooting jpegs check sharpening in picture control settings. Good luck, I believe you can get much sharper images from the setup you have.

Your suggestion above is confusing to me. Are you saying 1/125~1/640th are OK for tele's or not? If so then why would they not introduce the same characteristic problems as you suggest for other FL's? I have shot my 70~200 from a kayak with VR and with great results that were in that range.

Also why do you say up to 1/640? Do the problems go away at shutter speeds above that and if so why?

More detail would be appreciated.

Thanks,

just Tony
just Tony Senior Member • Posts: 2,094
Use a better lens if you are pursuing "the best"

Your shot appears to be softer on the right side than it is on the left, you should check into that. And use stabilization only when it is the lesser of two evils.

larrywilson
larrywilson Veteran Member • Posts: 6,289
Re: Is this the best I can expect from D800?

Wrong, I carry dof charts.  I am in places sometimes with no electronic device connections, like wilderness areas.  I'm old fashion and I am proud of it ha ha!!!!

Larry

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larrywilson
larrywilson Veteran Member • Posts: 6,289
Re: Very average glass

Steve, see my last comment concerning most third party zoom lenses.  I not just retired, but mostly just tired ha ha!!!

Larry

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digital ed
digital ed Veteran Member • Posts: 3,539
Some in this thread are missing an important point

There is a technical and subjective difference between an image that is sharp and an image that is at the optimum sharpness for a lens/camera combination.

Take the new Zeiss Otus for example. Put it on your D800, hand hold, quick focus and take a picture. The odds are you will get a "sharp" image but most likely not near what could have been achieved with proper technique for that camera/lens combination.

Read some of the comments from Otus users. To get the optimum results with the D800 (which is the camera of choice for evaluating this lens) it takes bolting it down to a secure base, delaying the shutter actuation and experimenting with the focus setting. Of course, reasonably sharp images can be achieved by hand holding and using fast shutter speeds at the expense of shallow DOF. But it all comes down to what is the level of expectation for what is a "sharp" image and what is the optimum that can be achieved.

Certainly I do not have an Otus to experiment with. But I have experimented with some good Nikon lenses on my D800. It is clear from my comparative testing that the sharpest images at the pixel level come from tripod mount and delayed shutter activation.

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Reilly Diefenbach
Reilly Diefenbach Forum Pro • Posts: 12,451
Re: Some in this thread are missing an important point
9

I haven't seen any difference at all between tripod and handheld with my D800e at the 400% peep provided I had a decently high shutter speed.  Piece of cake!

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MisterHairy Senior Member • Posts: 2,245
Tripod bunkum.
5

Reilly Diefenbach wrote:

I haven't seen any difference at all between tripod and handheld with my D800e at the 400% peep provided I had a decently high shutter speed. Piece of cake!

Yep. I can also get critically sharp shots hand held with my D800Es (assuming a good lens) so the hackneyed old bunkum about mandatory tripod use must pertain more to caffeine addicts and congenitally nervous folks, I think. You should easily be able to get into "wow" territory hand held.

I do like to pixel peep, by the way and am very sensitive to unsharp images.

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digital ed
digital ed Veteran Member • Posts: 3,539
Re: Some in this thread are missing an important point

Reilly Diefenbach wrote:

I haven't seen any difference at all between tripod and handheld with my D800e at the 400% peep provided I had a decently high shutter speed. Piece of cake!

Certainly a high enough shutter speed can minimize or eliminate camera movement when being hand held. But some have observed there may be a shutter activated resonance in the D800 mechanism that may last for a measurable time that may require a faster than normal shutter speed to eliminate. Shutter delay can prevent this.

PDAF with the D800 is very good but I do not think it is good enough to always get optimum focus. I have observed this with my camera using shutter delay and even with studio strobes. CDAF seems more reliable and as good as manual focus using the camera's LCD with magnification or being tethered to a computer for a larger display.

I apologize that I do not have a link to the observations I read in the past regarding the resonance. I am looking and if I find it I will post.

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digital ed
digital ed Veteran Member • Posts: 3,539
Re: Tripod bunkum.

MisterHairy wrote:

Reilly Diefenbach wrote:

I haven't seen any difference at all between tripod and handheld with my D800e at the 400% peep provided I had a decently high shutter speed. Piece of cake!

Yep. I can also get critically sharp shots hand held with my D800Es (assuming a good lens) so the hackneyed old bunkum about mandatory tripod use must pertain more to caffeine addicts and congenitally nervous folks, I think. You should easily be able to get into "wow" territory hand held.

I do like to pixel peep, by the way and am very sensitive to unsharp images.

Critically sharp is subjective. Do you get consistent optimum sharpness? With excellent technique I am sure you can. For me I can get excellent sharpness hand held but not always the optimum that could be achieved.

I am off to take some pictures of Huey helicopters static and flying, hand held.

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