V3 vs V1

Started Apr 17, 2014 | Discussions
OP The Smoking Camera Senior Member • Posts: 2,113
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The Smoking Camera wrote:

So with the V3 about to be released I took a quick look at specs to see if an upgrade is worthwhile. From what I can see the V3 improves the following over the V1:

18 vs 10mp.

No optical low pass filter.

Increased number of AF points.

20 vs 10fps with AF-C.

Maximum iso increased to 12,800 from 6400.

Built in wifi and remote capability.

Improved video.

PSAM mode dial.

Programmable function buttons.

Built in flash.

Vari-angle LCD screen.

Of course some of these upgrades will matter little or not at all to some, whereas for others one or more of these upgrades will be exactly what they wanted.

Regarding price and inclusion of an Ft-1, if one were to sell the new Ft-1, new 10-30 PD lens and used V1, the net price for upgrading to a V3 is about $700. Probably need to add $50-100 for a micro SD and extra battery.

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Joe
www.thesmokingcamera.com

Miskec Senior Member • Posts: 1,501
Re: V3 vs V1

The Smoking Camera wrote:

So with the V3 about to be released I took a quick look at specs to see if an upgrade is worthwhile. From what I can see the V3 improves the following over the V1:

18 vs 10mp.

No optical low pass filter.

Increased number of AF points.

20 vs 10fps with AF-C.

Maximum iso increased to 12,800 from 6400.

Built in wifi and remote capability.

Improved video.

PSAM mode dial.

Programmable function buttons.

Built in flash.

Vari-angle LCD screen.

These are all nice improvements but worth the $$. I don't know. And unfortunately, no indication low light performance has improved in any significant way. Time to wait for some hands-on reviews.

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Joe
www.thesmokingcamera.com

Simple, all the main camera manufactures name their models from high to low numbers, where lower is better. For example: Nikon D4S or Canon 1DX. So, V1 is better than V3

JK, I would like to upgrade but frankly, my V1 suits me just fine.

Best

Neven

DangFoo Regular Member • Posts: 316
Re: V3 vs V1

The EN-EL15 is reason enough for me to prefer the V1. Nikon, how about less bodies and more lenses?

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Northoceanbeach Contributing Member • Posts: 601
Re: V3 vs V1

dougjgreen1 wrote:

Scottelly wrote:The big minus is no build in EVF. Another battery and mini SD cards

What do you mean by mini SD cards? Doesn't the V3 take SD cards? I haven't heard they have switched to mini SD. That is an obsolete format! Why the hell would they switch from SD to mini SD? They should have gone all the way to micro SD! WTF?!?!?!

They actually did go to Micro SD cards

Thats one big negative for me.  I want this camera, and yes I do find it overpriced in comparison to the competition.  But it's all the little stiff I would have to replace.  New batteries, new sd cards.  I don't want to buy new sd cards.  Does the kit lens take 40.5 filters?

dougjgreen1 Senior Member • Posts: 2,317
Re: V3 vs V1

Northoceanbeach wrote:

dougjgreen1 wrote:

Scottelly wrote:The big minus is no build in EVF. Another battery and mini SD cards

What do you mean by mini SD cards? Doesn't the V3 take SD cards? I haven't heard they have switched to mini SD. That is an obsolete format! Why the hell would they switch from SD to mini SD? They should have gone all the way to micro SD! WTF?!?!?!

They actually did go to Micro SD cards

Thats one big negative for me. I want this camera, and yes I do find it overpriced in comparison to the competition. But it's all the little stiff I would have to replace. New batteries, new sd cards. I don't want to buy new sd cards. Does the kit lens take 40.5 filters?

It doesn't take any filters at all (other than gelatin filters taped to the front of the lens).

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Sangster Contributing Member • Posts: 598
Re: V3 vs V1

Scottelly wrote:

Sangster wrote:

Just saw Henrys advertise Fuji XE1 with 18-55 f 2.8-4 for $800. This would be a really tempting upgrade for me if I was in the market as opposed to V3.

This assumes you don't have Nikon lenses that you want to use on your new camera. Nikon is depending on people who think of Nikon as the best camera and lens company and photographers who are already have an investment in Nikon lenses that they like, such as the 16-85mm VR, 85mm f1.4, 18-200mm f3.5-5.6 VR II, or 70-200mm f2.8 VR, etc. Any of those lenses would make a great companion (using the FT-1 adapter) to the V3 and its included 10-30mm lens. For example, a photographer who shoots with a D7000 and an 18-200mm f3.5-5.6 VR II would be able to use their new camera for wide-angle shooting with their 10-30mm lens, and they would get super fast performance at a slightly higher pixel count. Then the photographer might go to a baseball game and find they want to zoom in on their kid, but the D7000 doesn't quite give them the close shots they want. The could pull out their FT-1 adapter and move their 18-200 lens from their big camera to their fast little camera with the 2.7 crop factor and shoot away, getting the shots they want. The new camera would not only be a good back-up camera, but it would also give an advantage for shooting at longer distances. Imagine how that lens would perform for shooting sparrows?

You are right.  I am not tied into Nikon.  I just have the V1 kit and 30-110.  Was tempted to buy a a prime or two but now seeing the direction Nikon executives are taking with the N1 after the V3, J4 announcements I have changed my mind.  With two more years left to depreciate the current kit.  Fuji looks more and more like a viable alternative.

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Scottelly
Scottelly Veteran Member • Posts: 7,801
Re: V3 vs V1

dougjgreen1 wrote:

Scottelly wrote:The big minus is no build in EVF. Another battery and mini SD cards

What do you mean by mini SD cards? Doesn't the V3 take SD cards? I haven't heard they have switched to mini SD. That is an obsolete format! Why the hell would they switch from SD to mini SD? They should have gone all the way to micro SD! WTF?!?!?!

They actually did go to Micro SD cards

Yes . . . and I think that sucks, since even the fastest micro-SD cards can only receive data at 30 MB/second. The SanDisk Extreme Plus 16 GB UHS-1 card spec. is 80 MB/s read and 30 MB/s write. It only costs about $30, rather than the exorbitant prices of the high-end CF cards, but I really don't think Nikon should have switched to micro-SD yet. It definitely is the future though. They are being forward-thinking in doing this. I guess we will see all the new Nikon 1 cameras getting micro-SD cards. They can be put in cell phones and lots of other devices for review, but that could be done with wi-fi anyway.

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Scottelly
Scottelly Veteran Member • Posts: 7,801
Re: V3 vs V1
3

Sangster wrote:

Scottelly wrote:

Sangster wrote:

Just saw Henrys advertise Fuji XE1 with 18-55 f 2.8-4 for $800. This would be a really tempting upgrade for me if I was in the market as opposed to V3.

This assumes you don't have Nikon lenses that you want to use on your new camera. Nikon is depending on people who think of Nikon as the best camera and lens company and photographers who are already have an investment in Nikon lenses that they like, such as the 16-85mm VR, 85mm f1.4, 18-200mm f3.5-5.6 VR II, or 70-200mm f2.8 VR, etc. Any of those lenses would make a great companion (using the FT-1 adapter) to the V3 and its included 10-30mm lens. For example, a photographer who shoots with a D7000 and an 18-200mm f3.5-5.6 VR II would be able to use their new camera for wide-angle shooting with their 10-30mm lens, and they would get super fast performance at a slightly higher pixel count. Then the photographer might go to a baseball game and find they want to zoom in on their kid, but the D7000 doesn't quite give them the close shots they want. The could pull out their FT-1 adapter and move their 18-200 lens from their big camera to their fast little camera with the 2.7 crop factor and shoot away, getting the shots they want. The new camera would not only be a good back-up camera, but it would also give an advantage for shooting at longer distances. Imagine how that lens would perform for shooting sparrows?

You are right. I am not tied into Nikon. I just have the V1 kit and 30-110. Was tempted to buy a a prime or two but now seeing the direction Nikon executives are taking with the N1 after the V3, J4 announcements I have changed my mind. With two more years left to depreciate the current kit. Fuji looks more and more like a viable alternative.

The Nikon V3 weighs 324 grams, and the 10-30mm lens it comes with weighs 85 grams, totaling 409 grams, including memory card and battery. The Fuji XE1 weighs 630 grams without its battery or memory card. That is a BIG difference. It also produces images that are 16 megapixels, compared to the V3 images which are 18 megapixels. It also does not have a flip-out touch screen for focusing (and optionally shooting) by touching where you want to focus. Continuous shooting sped is up to 3 frames per second.

Everyone wants what they want. I can't fault you for this, but understand what you are going to be getting, before you go making a switch. The two cameras really don't compare. The Fuji does not have the advantages of the small sensor that the Nikon has, because it is an APS-C sensor camera. It probably has a significant advantage when shooting in low light at ISO 800 and above, but if you find yourself using high ISO settings like that a lot of the time you are not a candidate for shooting with a 1" sensor anyway. I shoot at ISO 100 most of the time, so I AM a candidate for the Nikon 1 system.

I'm planning to buy into it, because I like the added depth of field and the incredibly fast shooting speeds. I also like the idea of its low weight and 2.7 crop factor, which will allow me to use a compact long lens to shoot stuff far away, the equivalent of which I couldn't afford or carry, if I were shooting with a full-frame or even an APS-C sensor. The 500mm f4.5 Sigma lens is huge! With the Nikon 1 system I can get a 70-300mm f5.6 VR and have almost the same image quality in a lens that weighs just a little more than a good 50mm lens and costs less than quarter of the price of the huge Sigma 500mm. THAT is AWESOME!

 Scottelly's gear list:Scottelly's gear list
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Scottelly
Scottelly Veteran Member • Posts: 7,801
Re: V3 vs V1

dougjgreen1 wrote:

Northoceanbeach wrote:

dougjgreen1 wrote:

Scottelly wrote:The big minus is no build in EVF. Another battery and mini SD cards

What do you mean by mini SD cards? Doesn't the V3 take SD cards? I haven't heard they have switched to mini SD. That is an obsolete format! Why the hell would they switch from SD to mini SD? They should have gone all the way to micro SD! WTF?!?!?!

They actually did go to Micro SD cards

Thats one big negative for me. I want this camera, and yes I do find it overpriced in comparison to the competition. But it's all the little stiff I would have to replace. New batteries, new sd cards. I don't want to buy new sd cards. Does the kit lens take 40.5 filters?

It doesn't take any filters at all (other than gelatin filters taped to the front of the lens).

I guess they expect people who want to use filters will buy other lenses for the camera. Most point-and-shoot cameras won't take filters either. This is sort of a bridge between a point-and-shoot camera and a DSLR, so maybe they have made the new kit lens to fit into the point-and-shoot realm better. You can always swap out your new lens for an excellent quality used version of the older lens, I'm sure. The new lens will work on a J1. I bet someone with one of those would LOVE to swap with you.

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myzel Senior Member • Posts: 2,075
Re: microSDHC UHS-I cards
1

Scottelly wrote:

Yes . . . and I think that sucks, since even the fastest micro-SD cards can only receive data at 30 MB/second.

The SanDisk Extreme Pro microSDHC/microSDXD UHS-I card has write speeds up to 45MB/s according to SanDisk .

The SanDisk Extreme Plus microSDHC/microSDXD UHS-I  card has write speeds up to 50MB/s.

Not up to the level of the high-end SDHC II cards, but faster than 30MB/s.

Now the real question is how fast can the V3 write to the microSD card? The camera might be the bottleneck here and not the memory card.

Can't remember a reading a good test of in camera write to card speeds. I really don't know if a camera can actually take advantage of high-speed cards.

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Scottelly
Scottelly Veteran Member • Posts: 7,801
Re: V3 vs V1

DangFoo wrote:

The EN-EL15 is reason enough for me to prefer the V1. Nikon, how about less bodies and more lenses?

They are trying to get the bodies right. I'm glad to see them trying. They have probably not committed to the lenses much, because they probably expected people to buy the bigger lenses and mount them using the FT-1 adapter. I like the fact that they made the wide-angle VR lens. I wish it was a 5-10mm f2.8 though. A light little lens with a 14mm equivalent focal length at the wide end would be very cool.

Maybe they'll make one of those for $699 next year. I hope so (especially if I can shoot photos similar in IQ to what can be made with a D7000 and 10-24mm G lens).

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Scottelly
Scottelly Veteran Member • Posts: 7,801
Re: microSDHC UHS-I cards

myzel wrote:

Scottelly wrote:

Yes . . . and I think that sucks, since even the fastest micro-SD cards can only receive data at 30 MB/second.

The SanDisk Extreme Pro microSDHC/microSDXD UHS-I card has write speeds up to 45MB/s according to SanDisk .

The SanDisk Extreme Plus microSDHC/microSDXD UHS-I card has write speeds up to 50MB/s.

Not up to the level of the high-end SDHC II cards, but faster than 30MB/s.

Now the real question is how fast can the V3 write to the microSD card? The camera might be the bottleneck here and not the memory card.

Can't remember a reading a good test of in camera write to card speeds. I really don't know if a camera can actually take advantage of high-speed cards.

I sure hope it can, but such information is difficult to come by. I'd like to see a test which shows the difference between the V2 and V3 write speeds (and buffer sizes). That sort of stuff is REALLY important with cameras that can shoot at such fast frame rates.

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dougjgreen1 Senior Member • Posts: 2,317
Re: V3 vs V1
1

Scottelly wrote:

The Nikon V3 weighs 324 grams, and the 10-30mm lens it comes with weighs 85 grams, totaling 409 grams, including memory card and battery. The Fuji XE1 weighs 630 grams without its battery or memory card. That is a BIG difference. It also produces images that are 16 megapixels, compared to the V3 images which are 18 megapixels. It also does not have a flip-out touch screen for focusing (and optionally shooting) by touching where you want to focus. Continuous shooting sped is up to 3 frames per second.

It also has a sensor that's over 3 times the area of the V3, with about 2 stops more dynamic range.

Everyone wants what they want. I can't fault you for this, but understand what you are going to be getting, before you go making a switch. The two cameras really don't compare. The Fuji does not have the advantages of the small sensor that the Nikon has, because it is an APS-C sensor camera. It probably has a significant advantage when shooting in low light at ISO 800 and above, but if you find yourself using high ISO settings like that a lot of the time you are not a candidate for shooting with a 1" sensor anyway. I shoot at ISO 100 most of the time, so I AM a candidate for the Nikon 1 system.

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Scottelly
Scottelly Veteran Member • Posts: 7,801
Re: microSDHC UHS-I cards

I sure hope it can, but such information is difficult to come by. I'd like to see a test which shows the difference between the V2 and V3 write speeds (and buffer sizes). That sort of stuff is REALLY important with cameras that can shoot at such fast frame rates.

According to Imaging-Resource the buffer clearing time for the V2 is pretty fast - 22 seconds for 40 raw shots. Presumably the V3 is the same, but it might be faster, since the design is significantly newer.

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/nikon-v2/nikon-v2A6.HTM

I guess you are right here. Since there are already micro-SD cards that can receive data at 50 MB/s, the buffer clearing times will be limited more by the camera than the memory cards. I think 50 MB/s will be the maximum the camera will be able to write at, because I believe that is the UHS-1 standard's maximum write speed. UHS104 (faster than normal UHS-1, but not quite UHS-2 speed) would be nice, but I don't think this camera would have that. Wouldn't it be awesome if the V3 had a UHS-2 slot? Do they even make UHS-2 micro-SD cards yet? (I know Toshiba is making those disgustingly fast UHS-2 Exceria Pro SD cards.)

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2013/07/16/Toshiba-Exceria-Pro-fastest-SD-cards-UHS-II-up-to-240MBs-write

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TOSHIBA-SDHC-Memory-card-32GB-SDXU-032GA-EXCERIA-PRO-UHS-II-From-JAPAN-NEW-/291121218396?pt=Digital_Camera_Memory_Cards&hash=item43c82d435c

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chipmaster
chipmaster Senior Member • Posts: 2,746
Re: V3 vs V1

I am a gear head when it comes to bodies ever since I got my D40. I have seriously soured on any new addition since my J1/D4/D600 experience. The most disappointing was the J1, but even after that got a nice used v1 for a specific one time shooting reason. I have come to enjoy and use this camera as my go to travel and first choice when my iphone doesn't suffice enough so that I am close to wanting another, one with the 6.7 zoom and another with either a tele or the ft and a fx prime. What is there not to like for a $200 buck body with what it gives me

V3 things that hold me back
1) $$$$
2) battery
3) strange mix of features for $$$$ that proved me wih no incremental value propsition

Things that might get me to leap at the current price
Give me real two stop ISO improvement
Continuous focus all points with ft1

Other stuff all nice and tolerable for a body selling at 500 new

I expect this to be a low volume product

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Northoceanbeach Contributing Member • Posts: 601
Re: microSDHC UHS-I cards

I would put the lens on ebay to help offset the cost. I already have a 10-30. I'll bet the ebay price is over $200.  I'm seriously considering this camera. For all the negative I hear about it, the simple fact that I can walk around with two primes and tow zooms, and barely notice I'm carrying anything is a huge plus.

that, and the lenses seem to be good quality and priced within reason. Im  still thinking about it. We will see.  I think it looks like a great camera.  --
https://www.flickr.com/photos/northoceanbeach/

chipmaster
chipmaster Senior Member • Posts: 2,746
Re: microSDHC UHS-I cards

I would put the lens on ebay to help offset the cost. I already have a 10-30. I'll bet the ebay price is over $200.  I'm seriously considering this camera. For all the negative I hear about it, the simple fact that I can walk around with two primes and tow zooms, and barely notice I'm carrying anything is a huge plus.

that, and the lenses seem to be good quality and priced within reason. Im  still thinking about it. We will see.  I think it looks like a great camera.  --
https://www.flickr.com/photos/northoceanbeach/

Don't expect kit lenses to have huge demand on eBay but you can hope for the best.

I agree two nikon 1 with lenses is far lighter and more flexible thang DX or FX combo and good enough for most including me.

It will be interesting to see what the smarphone companies with their yearly technology cadenc and huge volumes can do. Just like PC volumes did to the mini and how the phone chips are doing to the PC. Volumes can bring serious technology to bear to negate advantages that low volume highly engineered solutions provide

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WCguy Senior Member • Posts: 1,032
Re: Many things about the V3 sound good...but....
4

I like many things about the V3. The fold out screen I really miss from my NEX cameras.

I'm sure the EVF will be good but it should be built in!

The sensor and overall speed and responsiveness I'm sure will be very good too.

Micro SD and yet another battery - Pffft! But its not a deal breaker.

WIFI and video don't bother me either way.

By the way I miss-type V3 quite often and type V£ for some reason..... £££££'s - oh yes- price!

The battery is no problem if you own the AW1, same battery, I have several. The removable EVF on my RX1 stays on all the time using a thin elastic band to take up the connection slack, no big deal, great EVF, will do something similar with the V3. Would like the SD card to be the same but thats life. AS far as price, I paid the original price on the V1 way back, thats life. Now my $60,000 truck, well that dropped several thousand the day I drove it off the lot, guess thats life also.The V3 not so expensive now !      WC

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It's What You Learn After You Know It All That Counts !

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Scottelly
Scottelly Veteran Member • Posts: 7,801
Re: V3 vs V1

chipmaster wrote:

I am a gear head when it comes to bodies ever since I got my D40. I have seriously soured on any new addition since my J1/D4/D600 experience. The most disappointing was the J1, but even after that got a nice used v1 for a specific one time shooting reason. I have come to enjoy and use this camera as my go to travel and first choice when my iphone doesn't suffice enough so that I am close to wanting another, one with the 6.7 zoom and another with either a tele or the ft and a fx prime. What is there not to like for a $200 buck body with what it gives me

V3 things that hold me back
1) $$$$

It's cheaper than upgrading to a D7100 from a D7000.

2) battery

You get a new battery with the camera. If you need two you can get a spare for just $50.

3) strange mix of features for $$$$ that proved me wih no incremental value propsition

How is it a strange mix of features? It's just like the J series, except it comes with a fold-out screen and a removable viewfinder. If you mean the micro-SD card . . . ($17 for a really fast 16 GB micro-SD card)

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/855703-REG/delkin_devices_ddmicrosdpro2_16gb_16gb_microsd_pro_sdhc.html

Things that might get me to leap at the current price
Give me real two stop ISO improvement

Not going to happen. They have increased the resolution to Canon 7 D range, rather than increasing high-ISO performance, because everyone expects these cameras to have bad high-ISO performance anyway. They will NEVER get over that perception. I frankly was surprised at how good the high-ISO performance is from the J1. I see the 14 MP sensor is a little noisier, but it looks like they have brought the new sensor back down to where the original 10 MP sensor is. That's not bad. The next sensor will probably be 20 or 24 megapixels. If it's only 20 MP it will probably give you a 1-stop improvement (same noise at ISO 1600 that it gives today at ISO 800). I predict that people who want to shoot at night a lot will not buy this camera . . . period. I think Nikon knows that, so they aren't trying to improve the high-ISO performance very much.

Continuous focus all points with ft1

Other stuff all nice and tolerable for a body selling at 500 new

I expect this to be a low volume product

As with all technology the V3 will eventually be available brand new for about half what it is today, at introduction. It might not include the viewfinder, grip, and lens, but it will eventually go on sale . . . some time next year maybe, when they launch the V4.

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MFiftysomething Contributing Member • Posts: 790
Re: V3 vs V1

Nikon V3 and XE1 (slow focus) are very different cameras -Sony A6000 might be worth looking at also as that is similar in that it sells on fast focus and is incredible value compared to the Nikon. Bigger lenses of course, but not a big or heavy camera.

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