Fuji 23mm Distance Scale

Started Mar 30, 2014 | Discussions
zenpmd Senior Member • Posts: 1,130
Fuji 23mm Distance Scale

Can someone tell me how this works? I want to get into zone focusing. Thanks!

Giuloco New Member • Posts: 10
Re: Fuji 23mm Distance Scale

I am not a specialist but I do have a 14mm Fujinon and I use Zone Focusing.

First thing you must set the aperture value like f/8.0. Than you align the infinity position in the focus scale with left f/8.0 indication. The right f/8.0 shows you the closest position that is still in focus.

For example, in the 14mm lens at f/8.0, the focus range goes from infinity to ~0.8 meters.

Hope it helps.

Cheers!

Ray Sachs
Ray Sachs Forum Pro • Posts: 10,580
Re: Fuji 23mm Distance Scale

zenpmd wrote:

Can someone tell me how this works? I want to get into zone focusing. Thanks!

First of all, use the DISTANCE scale on the lens barrel, but pay absolutely ZERO attention to the depth of field chart - it's extremely conservative. It's probably OK for critical focus but for zone focus and acceptable sharpness on the street, it's not worth a second glance. If you try to rely on it, you'll use a much smaller aperture than you need and then, except in the best light you'll have to use some combination of too low a shutter speed and wickedly high ISO and you'll get motion blur in your shots rather than slightly imperfect (but generally quite acceptable) focus.

I'd spend some time with DOF Master (find it on Google) or some other depth of field calculator, enter your camera and lens information, use six feet or two meters as a starting focus distance (assuming this is for street photography), and then plug in different apertures and get a feel for what looks like an acceptable "zone" of in-focus area.

Then go experiment out on the street. Try focussing at two meters or 5-6 feet and do a series of shots at f8, then at f7.1, 6.3, 5.6, etc. Even try f4 and f2.8 as an experiment. Keep your shutter speed high - when I'm moving and my subject's moving, I usually shoot at 1/500 or faster - I use the auto-ISO settings to manage this, but there are other ways to do it.

And then when you download your shots to your computer, keep an eye on what apertures produce photos that are sharp enough for your liking. You might be surprised at how much leeway you have. I shoot this way more with the 14 and 18mm lenses than the 23, but I find that when necessary, I can shoot with the 18 as wide as f3.5 and with the 14 wide open at f2.8 and still have a deep enough zone of focus to get mostly keepers For subject in the 4-10 foot range. The previous poster suggested using f8 on the 14mm lens, but he must be relying on the DOF scale on the lens. I'd never shoot smaller than about f5 or f5.6 with that kens And, as I noted, have gotten plenty if good low light shots at f2.8 with that lens.

You just have to play around and see what works for you. The distance scale on the lens (or on the display for lenses that don't show it on the barrel) is a critical tool for zone focus. But you need to come up with your own DOF tables because Fuji (and pretty much every other brand - Ricoh being an exception with SOME models) uses DOF assumptions that most people find way too conservative for street photography...

-Ray
--------------------------------------
We judge photographers by the photographs we see. We judge cameras by the photographs we miss - Haim Zamir
http://www.flickr.com/photos/20889767@N05/

nixda Veteran Member • Posts: 5,515
Re: Fuji 23mm Distance Scale

Ray Sachs wrote:

zenpmd wrote:

Can someone tell me how this works? I want to get into zone focusing. Thanks!

First of all, use the DISTANCE scale on the lens barrel, but pay absolutely ZERO attention to the depth of field chart - it's extremely conservative. It's probably OK for critical focus but for zone focus and acceptable sharpness on the street, it's not worth a second glance. If you try to rely on it, you'll use a much smaller aperture than you need and then, except in the best light you'll have to use some combination of too low a shutter speed and wickedly high ISO and you'll get motion blur in your shots rather than slightly imperfect (but generally quite acceptable) focus.

I'd spend some time with DOF Master (find it on Google) or some other depth of field calculator, enter your camera and lens information, use six feet or two meters as a starting focus distance (assuming this is for street photography), and then plug in different apertures and get a feel for what looks like an acceptable "zone" of in-focus area.

Then go experiment out on the street. Try focussing at two meters or 5-6 feet and do a series of shots at f8, then at f7.1, 6.3, 5.6, etc. Even try f4 and f2.8 as an experiment. Keep your shutter speed high - when I'm moving and my subject's moving, I usually shoot at 1/500 or faster - I use the auto-ISO settings to manage this, but there are other ways to do it.

And then when you download your shots to your computer, keep an eye on what apertures produce photos that are sharp enough for your liking. You might be surprised at how much leeway you have. I shoot this way more with the 14 and 18mm lenses than the 23, but I find that when necessary, I can shoot with the 18 as wide as f3.5 and with the 14 wide open at f2.8 and still have a deep enough zone of focus to get mostly keepers For subject in the 4-10 foot range. The previous poster suggested using f8 on the 14mm lens, but he must be relying on the DOF scale on the lens. I'd never shoot smaller than about f5 or f5.6 with that kens And, as I noted, have gotten plenty if good low light shots at f2.8 with that lens.

You just have to play around and see what works for you. The distance scale on the lens (or on the display for lenses that don't show it on the barrel) is a critical tool for zone focus. But you need to come up with your own DOF tables because Fuji (and pretty much every other brand - Ricoh being an exception with SOME models) uses DOF assumptions that most people find way too conservative for street photography...

I believe the DoF scale on Fuji's lenses is much less conservative than that used in the camera. It all comes down to different values of the Circle of Confusion (CoC) used in the calculations of the DoF. And CoC critically depends on how images are viewed in the end.

So, I second the advice to go out and 'calibrate' each lens according to Ray's suggestion, but keep in mind that the requirements for a sharp image could change quite a bit if one decided to print a photo to hang on the wall vs. showing it on a TV or on the web.

 nixda's gear list:nixda's gear list
Fujifilm X-E1 Fujifilm XF 14mm F2.8 R Fujifilm XF 18-55mm F2.8-4 R LM OIS Fujifilm XF 55-200mm F3.5-4.8 R LM OIS Fujifilm XF 27mm F2.8 +1 more
ryan2007 Forum Pro • Posts: 12,001
Re: Fuji 23mm Distance Scale

zenpmd wrote:

Can someone tell me how this works? I want to get into zone focusing. Thanks!

You need to buy the Ansel Adams book (s)

The Camera

You can consider the two other books, the negative and the print.

You can shoot Fuji X like a film camera.

If you want to get obsessive about it you could buy a handheld spot meter and take readings and get really specific about exposure.

I also think if you learn about differences for Incident vs Reflective metering (easy) it may help.

Ray Sachs
Ray Sachs Forum Pro • Posts: 10,580
Re: Fuji 23mm Distance Scale

ryan2007 wrote:

zenpmd wrote:

Can someone tell me how this works? I want to get into zone focusing. Thanks!

You need to buy the Ansel Adams book (s)

The Camera

You can consider the two other books, the negative and the print.

You can shoot Fuji X like a film camera.

If you want to get obsessive about it you could buy a handheld spot meter and take readings and get really specific about exposure.

I also think if you learn about differences for Incident vs Reflective metering (easy) it may help.

He wasn't asking about the "zone system" of exposure that Ansel was preaching.

He's asking about "zone focusing", which has nothing to do with metering or even exposure except in a highly indirect sense. You can tell that because in the OP it says "I want to get into zone focusing"...

-Ray
--------------------------------------
We judge photographers by the photographs we see. We judge cameras by the photographs we miss - Haim Zamir
http://www.flickr.com/photos/20889767@N05/

Ray Sachs
Ray Sachs Forum Pro • Posts: 10,580
Re: Fuji 23mm Distance Scale

nixda wrote:

Ray Sachs wrote:

zenpmd wrote:

Can someone tell me how this works? I want to get into zone focusing. Thanks!

First of all, use the DISTANCE scale on the lens barrel, but pay absolutely ZERO attention to the depth of field chart - it's extremely conservative. It's probably OK for critical focus but for zone focus and acceptable sharpness on the street, it's not worth a second glance. If you try to rely on it, you'll use a much smaller aperture than you need and then, except in the best light you'll have to use some combination of too low a shutter speed and wickedly high ISO and you'll get motion blur in your shots rather than slightly imperfect (but generally quite acceptable) focus.

I'd spend some time with DOF Master (find it on Google) or some other depth of field calculator, enter your camera and lens information, use six feet or two meters as a starting focus distance (assuming this is for street photography), and then plug in different apertures and get a feel for what looks like an acceptable "zone" of in-focus area.

Then go experiment out on the street. Try focussing at two meters or 5-6 feet and do a series of shots at f8, then at f7.1, 6.3, 5.6, etc. Even try f4 and f2.8 as an experiment. Keep your shutter speed high - when I'm moving and my subject's moving, I usually shoot at 1/500 or faster - I use the auto-ISO settings to manage this, but there are other ways to do it.

And then when you download your shots to your computer, keep an eye on what apertures produce photos that are sharp enough for your liking. You might be surprised at how much leeway you have. I shoot this way more with the 14 and 18mm lenses than the 23, but I find that when necessary, I can shoot with the 18 as wide as f3.5 and with the 14 wide open at f2.8 and still have a deep enough zone of focus to get mostly keepers For subject in the 4-10 foot range. The previous poster suggested using f8 on the 14mm lens, but he must be relying on the DOF scale on the lens. I'd never shoot smaller than about f5 or f5.6 with that kens And, as I noted, have gotten plenty if good low light shots at f2.8 with that lens.

You just have to play around and see what works for you. The distance scale on the lens (or on the display for lenses that don't show it on the barrel) is a critical tool for zone focus. But you need to come up with your own DOF tables because Fuji (and pretty much every other brand - Ricoh being an exception with SOME models) uses DOF assumptions that most people find way too conservative for street photography...

I believe the DoF scale on Fuji's lenses is much less conservative than that used in the camera. It all comes down to different values of the Circle of Confusion (CoC) used in the calculations of the DoF. And CoC critically depends on how images are viewed in the end.

So, I second the advice to go out and 'calibrate' each lens according to Ray's suggestion, but keep in mind that the requirements for a sharp image could change quite a bit if one decided to print a photo to hang on the wall vs. showing it on a TV or on the web.

Agreed, it's down to individual preference, display size, etc. My standard is for street photography (which is 99% of what I use zone focussing for). And I regularly print to about 12x18" with photos taken with a much less conservative interpretation than Fuji tends to use. If I was trying to get critical focus for a narrow DOF portrait or macro it would be a different story, but then those are not the kinds of things you'd ever be using zone focusing for in the first place...

I honestly hadn't noticed the difference between the lens barrel and the display DOF scales - probably because I stopped relying on them years ago. Everyone's best bet for zone focussing is to learn their DOF scales based on a couple of easy starting points and then refining it with their own experience...

-Ray
--------------------------------------
We judge photographers by the photographs we see. We judge cameras by the photographs we miss - Haim Zamir
http://www.flickr.com/photos/20889767@N05/

PGR streetshooter Contributing Member • Posts: 974
Re: Fuji 23mm Distance Scale

zenpmd wrote:

Can someone tell me how this works? I want to get into zone focusing. Thanks!

Ray and the others are correct. There's just something to pay attention too.

The constant in Hyperfocal Distance is always Infinity. So, set your infinity mark at the f/stop you want.

What f/stop do I want? good question. Choose your f/stop based on the near distance of focus you want. That in sync with the exposure will determine the near depth of focus.

here's a sample of a chart I keep in my iPhoney for HD.

X-P1 .020 Fuji 23mm HD

5.6 15.4'

8.0. 10.9'

11. 7.75'

16. 5.5'

The problem with the Fuji scale on the lens is that it's terrible for Zone Focus but good for HD.

In a short amount of time, you will memorize what the DOF is at any f/stop but if your like me, ya need to see it fast on a note.

Just use DOF Master and make a chart for the phone. I think all phones have a note app.

Cheers, Don
http://www.flickr.com/photos/pgrshooter/
blog
http://streetshooter.net/

 PGR streetshooter's gear list:PGR streetshooter's gear list
Canon PowerShot G9 Ricoh GR Digital IV Fujifilm X100S Nikon Coolpix A Olympus PEN E-P5
Ray Sachs
Ray Sachs Forum Pro • Posts: 10,580
Re: Fuji 23mm Distance Scale

PGR streetshooter wrote:

zenpmd wrote:

Can someone tell me how this works? I want to get into zone focusing. Thanks!

Ray and the others are correct. There's just something to pay attention too.

The constant in Hyperfocal Distance is always Infinity. So, set your infinity mark at the f/stop you want.

Don here is the MAN and has forgotten more about street photography than I'll ever know.

But one point I'll make on this is that zone focus isn't always the same as Hyperfocal and you often don't need anything close to infinity in focus for street photography. When I'm out shooting with an 18mm lens (Fuji or Nikon Coolpix A) in good light, I'll generally just set the focus to two meters (I rarely feel the need to focus at any other distance, only occasionally coming in to about 1.5 for really close work) and the aperture to f6.3. At 2 meters you need to close down to somewhere between f8 and f9 to reach a hyperfocal setting, but I usually walk around at f6.4 and I have a zone of focus from a little over one meter to a little over 8 meters. Eight meters is 25+ feet away and there's almost nothing happening in a street shot that I need sharp focus beyond 25 feet!

In low light, I'll open the aperture up to f3.6 or f4 so I can maintain decent shutter speeds, and I still have a zone from about 1.5 to 3.5 meters in focus, still a zone where most of what I'm shooting is gonna be in focus. On the 14mm lens, I can shoot wide open at f2.8 and have from a little over 1 meter to nearly 5 meters in focus. It's a long way from hyperfocal, but it's a really effective way to establish a useable zone of focus in lower light and still be able to keep your shutter speed up where you need it to avoid hand-shake or subject-motion blur.

The tolerances are tighter with the 23mm lens as there's less DOF, but there's still enough once you get comfortable with the limits at various apertures... I just personally like little wider field of view personally...

-Ray
--------------------------------------
We judge photographers by the photographs we see. We judge cameras by the photographs we miss - Haim Zamir
http://www.flickr.com/photos/20889767@N05/

PGR streetshooter Contributing Member • Posts: 974
Re: Fuji 23mm Distance Scale

PGR streetshooter wrote:

zenpmd wrote:

Can someone tell me how this works? I want to get into zone focusing. Thanks!

Ray and the others are correct. There's just something to pay attention too.

The constant in Hyperfocal Distance is always Infinity. So, set your infinity mark at the f/stop you want.

Don here is the MAN and has forgotten more about street photography than I'll ever know.

But one point I'll make on this is that zone focus isn't always the same as Hyperfocal and you often don't need anything close to infinity in focus for street photography. When I'm out shooting with an 18mm lens (Fuji or Nikon Coolpix A) in good light, I'll generally just set the focus to two meters (I rarely feel the need to focus at any other distance, only occasionally coming in to about 1.5 for really close work) and the aperture to f6.3. At 2 meters you need to close down to somewhere between f8 and f9 to reach a hyperfocal setting, but I usually walk around at f6.4 and I have a zone of focus from a little over one meter to a little over 8 meters. Eight meters is 25+ feet away and there's almost nothing happening in a street shot that I need sharp focus beyond 25 feet!

In low light, I'll open the aperture up to f3.6 or f4 so I can maintain decent shutter speeds, and I still have a zone from about 1.5 to 3.5 meters in focus, still a zone where most of what I'm shooting is gonna be in focus. On the 14mm lens, I can shoot wide open at f2.8 and have from a little over 1 meter to nearly 5 meters in focus. It's a long way from hyperfocal, but it's a really effective way to establish a useable zone of focus in lower light and still be able to keep your shutter speed up where you need it to avoid hand-shake or subject-motion blur.

The tolerances are tighter with the 23mm lens as there's less DOF, but there's still enough once you get comfortable with the limits at various apertures... I just personally like little wider field of view personally...

-Ray
--------------------------------------
We judge photographers by the photographs we see. We judge cameras by the photographs we miss - Haim Zamir
http://www.flickr.com/photos/20889767@N05/

Ray..thanks.
The issue with the 23mm is that even if you set the camera to MF...it doesn't work. No scale.
So we are faced with the scale on the lens which is accurate for infinity but not much else.

The 18 uses the scale in camera which is good for focus distance but not DOF. I use 7' or 10'.
The 23mm with its scale is a great combo for street as long as we keep an open mind .
--
Cheers, Don

http://www.flickr.com/photos/pgrshooter/

blog
http://streetshooter.net/

 PGR streetshooter's gear list:PGR streetshooter's gear list
Canon PowerShot G9 Ricoh GR Digital IV Fujifilm X100S Nikon Coolpix A Olympus PEN E-P5
Ray Sachs
Ray Sachs Forum Pro • Posts: 10,580
Re: Fuji 23mm Distance Scale

PGR streetshooter wrote:

PGR streetshooter wrote:

zenpmd wrote:

Can someone tell me how this works? I want to get into zone focusing. Thanks!

Ray and the others are correct. There's just something to pay attention too.

The constant in Hyperfocal Distance is always Infinity. So, set your infinity mark at the f/stop you want.

Don here is the MAN and has forgotten more about street photography than I'll ever know.

But one point I'll make on this is that zone focus isn't always the same as Hyperfocal and you often don't need anything close to infinity in focus for street photography. When I'm out shooting with an 18mm lens (Fuji or Nikon Coolpix A) in good light, I'll generally just set the focus to two meters (I rarely feel the need to focus at any other distance, only occasionally coming in to about 1.5 for really close work) and the aperture to f6.3. At 2 meters you need to close down to somewhere between f8 and f9 to reach a hyperfocal setting, but I usually walk around at f6.4 and I have a zone of focus from a little over one meter to a little over 8 meters. Eight meters is 25+ feet away and there's almost nothing happening in a street shot that I need sharp focus beyond 25 feet!

In low light, I'll open the aperture up to f3.6 or f4 so I can maintain decent shutter speeds, and I still have a zone from about 1.5 to 3.5 meters in focus, still a zone where most of what I'm shooting is gonna be in focus. On the 14mm lens, I can shoot wide open at f2.8 and have from a little over 1 meter to nearly 5 meters in focus. It's a long way from hyperfocal, but it's a really effective way to establish a useable zone of focus in lower light and still be able to keep your shutter speed up where you need it to avoid hand-shake or subject-motion blur.

The tolerances are tighter with the 23mm lens as there's less DOF, but there's still enough once you get comfortable with the limits at various apertures... I just personally like little wider field of view personally...

-Ray
--------------------------------------
We judge photographers by the photographs we see. We judge cameras by the photographs we miss - Haim Zamir
http://www.flickr.com/photos/20889767@N05/

Ray..thanks.
The issue with the 23mm is that even if you set the camera to MF...it doesn't work. No scale.
So we are faced with the scale on the lens which is accurate for infinity but not much else.

Really? I've found the focus distance scale on both the 14 and 23 (which share the same "clutch" ring) to be pretty accurate. I just checked the 23 and both 1 and 2.5 feet are pretty much dead on. And I can get a repeatable 6 feet even though it's not marked - just line up the 1 meter marking with the right-hand f16 and you're there... It's true there aren't enough markings on the barrel, but I only need to know a couple of positions and tricks like that one - every time I focus on something six feet away (close enough to 2 meters) the 1 meter marking is right at f16, help me get situated... You could no doubt find a similar trick for 7' and 10'.

The 18 uses the scale in camera which is good for focus distance but not DOF. I use 7' or 10'.
The 23mm with its scale is a great combo for street as long as we keep an open mind .

Right. I don't use the DOF scales on these at all - the electronic one for the 18 or the lens barrel one for the 14 and 23. I just use the focus distance scale and keep my own DOF numbers in what's left of my head...

The Nikon A has a distance marking right at 2 meters and no DOF scale - a street camera after my own heart! But you knew that already...

-Ray

-- hide signature --

We judge photographers by the photographs we see. We judge cameras by the photographs we miss - Haim Zamir
http://www.flickr.com/photos/20889767@N05/

ryan2007 Forum Pro • Posts: 12,001
Re: Fuji 23mm Distance Scale

Ray Sachs wrote:

ryan2007 wrote:

zenpmd wrote:

Can someone tell me how this works? I want to get into zone focusing. Thanks!

You need to buy the Ansel Adams book (s)

The Camera

You can consider the two other books, the negative and the print.

You can shoot Fuji X like a film camera.

If you want to get obsessive about it you could buy a handheld spot meter and take readings and get really specific about exposure.

I also think if you learn about differences for Incident vs Reflective metering (easy) it may help.

He wasn't asking about the "zone system" of exposure that Ansel was preaching.

He's asking about "zone focusing", which has nothing to do with metering or even exposure except in a highly indirect sense. You can tell that because in the OP it says "I want to get into zone focusing"...

-Ray
--------------------------------------
We judge photographers by the photographs we see. We judge cameras by the photographs we miss - Haim Zamir
http://www.flickr.com/photos/20889767@N05/

Never mind

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