4/3 Rumors readers want a full frame OMD

Started Mar 27, 2014 | Discussions
Jim Laurel Regular Member • Posts: 215
4/3 Rumors readers want a full frame OMD
40
photofan1986
photofan1986 Veteran Member • Posts: 3,605
Re: 4/3 Rumors readers want a full frame OMD
15

New mount and they'd call it "jumbo 4/3"

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William Porter
William Porter Senior Member • Posts: 1,877
Re: 4/3 Rumors readers want a full frame OMD
9

My first thought was, April 1st isn't until next week....

But I must be missing something, perhaps because I'm new to micro four-thirds, perhaps because I wasn't too sure what "OM-D" means. Assuming "D" means digital, I do see from the history page on Olympus's site that the original OM series cameras were 35mm. When I first read the report, I thought what people were saying was, "Olympus should make a full-frame micro four-thirds camera," which is kind of like saying Apple should make a medium-format iPhone. But now I see people are just saying that they want Olympus to make a full-frame camera to compete with Canon, Nikon, Sony, and Leica. So I guess I understand what people think they want.

What I don't understand is why anybody thinks this would be a good idea.

Much better idea: Sony and/or Nikon start making m43 cameras....

Will

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Fleabag
Fleabag Senior Member • Posts: 2,417
Re: 4/3 Rumors readers want a full frame OMD
1

Terada "We don’t exclude to go Full Frame one day"

Wallybipster Senior Member • Posts: 1,668
Sometimes I wonder...
12

Do "full-frame" users ask for a medium format Canikon?

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rpm40
rpm40 Senior Member • Posts: 2,411
Re: Sometimes I wonder...
6

"Full frame" is a meaningless phrase, if you ask me. Its too bad its catchy and rolls off the tongue, now we have all these people fetishizing a specific sensor measurement, as if it should for some reason be the format against which all others are measured. Maybe its nostalgia?

The reason 35mm became popular in the first place was that tech had advanced to the point that larger formats didn't make enough sense for most people. If anything, that trend will only continue. Eventually, there will be less and less need whatsoever for big bulky gear, not more.

Will m4/3 and 1" soon be the next 35mm and aps-c for people to argue over?

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William Porter
William Porter Senior Member • Posts: 1,877
Re: Sometimes I wonder...
2

rpm40 wrote:

"Full frame" is a meaningless phrase, if you ask me. Its too bad its catchy and rolls off the tongue, now we have all these people fetishizing a specific sensor measurement, as if it should for some reason be the format against which all others are measured. Maybe its nostalgia?

Worse than meaningless: It's actually misleading. A beginner might reasonably think medium format was smaller than full-frame.

You can bet that the Canon and Nikon folks especially will keep "full frame" in use as long as possible. The world would be a better place if the rest of us however started calling the D3 and the 5D "36x24" cameras. In fact, I resolve to do so myself from this day forward.

(But please don't start checking on me. My resolutions are not written in stone, any more than my memory.)

The reason 35mm became popular in the first place was that tech had advanced to the point that larger formats didn't make enough sense for most people. If anything, that trend will only continue. Eventually, there will be less and less need whatsoever for big bulky gear, not more.

Will m4/3 and 1" soon be the next 35mm and aps-c for people to argue over?

Yes, I think they will.

Given the number of high-profile pros who have embraced micro four-thirds as a replacement for full-frame, it seems to me it would be kinda crazy for Olympus to get into full-frame now. They should read Michael Reichmann's great article "What Matters". He's got some suggestions for them — and they don't include making larger sensor cameras!

Will

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TrapperJohn Forum Pro • Posts: 16,488
If they can do it and keep it the same size...

It would be a Sony A7 with a good selection of size optimized lenses that had fast AF. And a quiet shutter. And a few other minor details. Since part of the Oly/Sony hookup was Oly developing lenses for Sony, this isn't an unrealistic scenario. Wouldn't be much more trouble to take those lens designs and adapt them to a FF OMD.

I don't see the need for it personally, but if it boosts sales...

It would be ironic if Oly fitted the A7 sensor to an OMD, cranked out a couple of portrait lenses for it, but the people that bought it came to the conclusion that the large 24x36 lenses just didn't deliver enough IQ to justify the extra size, weight, and cost of those lenses.

But, if that's what it takes, so be it.

Macintosh Sauce
Macintosh Sauce Contributing Member • Posts: 706
Re: 4/3 Rumors readers want a full frame OMD
1

Olympus and Panasonic need to make Micro 4/3 even better than it is now. I want to see faster AF and more weather-resistant lenses. I like the fact that third-party companies are starting to make some wonderful lenses for the Micro 4/3 format.

When I get the new GH4, eventually I'm going to get the Lumix 12-35 mm f/2.8 and the 35-100 mm f/2.8 lenses, but to start out I'm going to get the Lumix 14-140 mm f/3.5-5.6 lens. Plus, I want to pick up all of those sweet Sigma Art primes (19 mm, 30 mm, 60 mm).

Eventually, I'd love to get all three of these lenses:

  • Voigtländer - Nokton 17.5mm f/0.95
  • Voigtländer - Nokton 25mm f/0.95
  • Voigtländer - Nokton 42.5mm f/0.95
darrellc Regular Member • Posts: 445
I'd buy an Olympus FF mirrorless camera
2

I'd love an Olympus FF mirrorless camera. Whatever success Sony has with the A7 series, I suspect Olympus would have more success. My EM-1 is better in pretty much all respects than my A7, other than IQ. I run dual systems (FF and m4/3).

I'd like to see parallel development by Olympus in FF and m4/3, but unfortunately I doubt they've the resources to do that. They should probably continue to bet on m4/3, but I wouldn't be disappointed to see them have to make a transition to FF cameras, assuming they survived the transition and market conditions that force them to switch strategies.

Klarno
Klarno Veteran Member • Posts: 4,236
Re: 4/3 Rumors readers want a full frame OMD
1

I think an OM system full frame DSLR could get some traction as a luxury product-- like the Nikon Df, but designed around manual focus. A Leica M for the SLR shooter. Give it a good split focus screen and that huge optical viewfinder that makes anything we have today look awful by comparison. And reissue some of the OM lenses or possibly new designs with modern multicoatings.

A full frame OM-D, on the other hand, makes about as much sense as an APS-C Mamiya 7.
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Jim Salvas
Jim Salvas Veteran Member • Posts: 5,671
Re: 4/3 Rumors readers want a full frame OMD
13

Full frame cameras have less than 9% of the ILC market. Why would Olympus be dumb enough to go after a small slice of that small slice?

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Jim Salvas

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MOD Tom Caldwell Forum Pro • Posts: 42,594
Re: 4/3 Rumors readers want a full frame OMD
1

Jim Laurel wrote:

It seems there is no end to peoples' stupidity.

http://www.43rumors.com/full-frame-omd-is-the-43rumors-readers-most-wanted-camera-for-the-year-2014/

Start your lens collection all over again?

You might as well Buy a Nikon of Canon dslr and get access to an existing full range of proven lenses immediately and hope that they would jump and bring in a pro-level mirrorless body sometime real soon now.

Certainly both Nikon and Canon would really do this if they ever thought that their patch might be invaded by an interloper.  Sony is making a valiant effort and both Canon and Nikon must be watching but the A7 type charge is backed by three guys on horses being the number of lenses currently natively available for the system.  It might be quite a while before the charge becomes effective against the Canon/Nikon lens gazillions.  Similarly a 4/3 full frame sensor charge.  Pentax who could conceivably make a FF dslr to suit an existing suite of lenses is reluctant to do so as they consider the market not right.

Also note the horror of the naive when they realised that the Sony A7 needed new lenses that were not only quite expensive but, even worse they were l-a-r-g-e.  So what, did they expect the FF sensor to use their old aps-c lenses?

mmmm .... yes they did, and there were a whole lot of comments that they would be very happy to use aps-c lenses on a FF sensor as long as the crop mode was automatic ... I rest my case.

The more-megapixel fantasy is replaced by the "bigger sensor" fantasy.

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Tom Caldwell

MOD Tom Caldwell Forum Pro • Posts: 42,594
Naivity and desperation rules
1

William Porter wrote:

My first thought was, April 1st isn't until next week....

But I must be missing something, perhaps because I'm new to micro four-thirds, perhaps because I wasn't too sure what "OM-D" means. Assuming "D" means digital, I do see from the history page on Olympus's site that the original OM series cameras were 35mm. When I first read the report, I thought what people were saying was, "Olympus should make a full-frame micro four-thirds camera," which is kind of like saying Apple should make a medium-format iPhone. But now I see people are just saying that they want Olympus to make a full-frame camera to compete with Canon, Nikon, Sony, and Leica. So I guess I understand what people think they want.

What I don't understand is why anybody thinks this would be a good idea.

Much better idea: Sony and/or Nikon start making m43 cameras....

Will

Quite correct Will.

I think the point is that camera bodies are upgradable, lenses are forever.  If you have locked into lenses made for the 4/3 sensor then there is nowhere else to go but start all over again and duplicate everything.  If you are into the 4/3 sensor because it satisfies a need and you need a FF sensor then you should have been using Canon or Nikon dslr bodies all along and sunk your surplus cash into their lens systems in the pious hope that one day they would get around to dropping the mirror box.

It seems that they might be doing this already by stealth as the increasing use of video and live view lcd's and even hoodman accessories so that the eye-finder is virtually already merely an ornament.  Phase detect on the chip is likely to be the last nail in the coffin before a redesigned dslr looking like a Hasselblad (or Exakta?) shape arrives with the mirror box as a click-in accessory for those that still desperately need it.

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jeffharris
jeffharris Forum Pro • Posts: 10,691
Re: 4/3 Rumors readers want a full frame OMD
1

Jim Laurel wrote:

It seems there is no end to peoples' stupidity.

http://www.43rumors.com/full-frame-omd-is-the-43rumors-readers-most-wanted-camera-for-the-year-2014/

The Admin considered 25% a majority.

Oly has been struggling enough without some hair-brained idea like that. Teaming up with Sony would be the kicker.

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cosmonaut
cosmonaut Senior Member • Posts: 2,223
Re: 4/3 Rumors readers want a full frame OMD
1

I don't think it's stupid other companies support multiple sensor sizes, Nikon three plus multipille megapixel on top of that. Not to mention Olympus has had a hard time increasing image quality in what they have.  They are bad to wrap a new body around the same old sensor to many times. I for one would like to see it.

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amalric
amalric Forum Pro • Posts: 10,839
Re: If they can do it and keep it the same size...

TrapperJohn wrote:

It would be a Sony A7 with a good selection of size optimized lenses that had fast AF. And a quiet shutter. And a few other minor details. Since part of the Oly/Sony hookup was Oly developing lenses for Sony, this isn't an unrealistic scenario. Wouldn't be much more trouble to take those lens designs and adapt them to a FF OMD.

I don't see the need for it personally, but if it boosts sales...

It would be ironic if Oly fitted the A7 sensor to an OMD, cranked out a couple of portrait lenses for it, but the people that bought it came to the conclusion that the large 24x36 lenses just didn't deliver enough IQ to justify the extra size, weight, and cost of those lenses.

But, if that's what it takes, so be it.

I agree with you as usual. I am not sure it's financially viable, but that is for Olympus to decide.

It's human to seek infinite progress, and until the mythical organic sensor is there, one might think that limits to growth have been achieved in m4/3 and the only way out is to use a bigger sensor. But as you mention the benefit is uncertain and reports are inconclusive.

People will always be after the tower of Babel, but will Olympus follow?

Am.

cosmonaut
cosmonaut Senior Member • Posts: 2,223
Re: Sometimes I wonder...

Wallybipster wrote:

Do "full-frame" users ask for a medium format Canikon?

No but APS-C users ask for it case in point Fuji users.

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OP Jim Laurel Regular Member • Posts: 215
Re: I'd buy an Olympus FF mirrorless camera
2

What would be the point of such a system? You want full frame, buy a Canon or Nikon. An OMD is interesting because, as a system, it is light and compact. With full frame, that advantage will be lost.

darrellc wrote:

I'd love an Olympus FF mirrorless camera. Whatever success Sony has with the A7 series, I suspect Olympus would have more success. My EM-1 is better in pretty much all respects than my A7, other than IQ. I run dual systems (FF and m4/3).

I'd like to see parallel development by Olympus in FF and m4/3, but unfortunately I doubt they've the resources to do that. They should probably continue to bet on m4/3, but I wouldn't be disappointed to see them have to make a transition to FF cameras, assuming they survived the transition and market conditions that force them to switch strategies.

MOD Tom Caldwell Forum Pro • Posts: 42,594
Re: Sometimes I wonder...

William Porter wrote:

rpm40 wrote:

"Full frame" is a meaningless phrase, if you ask me. Its too bad its catchy and rolls off the tongue, now we have all these people fetishizing a specific sensor measurement, as if it should for some reason be the format against which all others are measured. Maybe its nostalgia?

Worse than meaningless: It's actually misleading. A beginner might reasonably think medium format was smaller than full-frame.

You can bet that the Canon and Nikon folks especially will keep "full frame" in use as long as possible. The world would be a better place if the rest of us however started calling the D3 and the 5D "36x24" cameras. In fact, I resolve to do so myself from this day forward.

(But please don't start checking on me. My resolutions are not written in stone, any more than my memory.)

The reason 35mm became popular in the first place was that tech had advanced to the point that larger formats didn't make enough sense for most people. If anything, that trend will only continue. Eventually, there will be less and less need whatsoever for big bulky gear, not more.

Will m4/3 and 1" soon be the next 35mm and aps-c for people to argue over?

Yes, I think they will.

Given the number of high-profile pros who have embraced micro four-thirds as a replacement for full-frame, it seems to me it would be kinda crazy for Olympus to get into full-frame now. They should read Michael Reichmann's great article "What Matters". He's got some suggestions for them — and they don't include making larger sensor cameras!

Will

Will, comments that I agree with.  The trouble is that so many lenses were made for the 135 format and they remain good lenses.  35mm film was truly a "miniature" format in its day that gained a major purchase to become and adopted standard.  Modern lens design allows lenses to be designed quicker but they are still expensive and a modern lens design "demands" to have AF, lighter materials and the now smaller accepted size format, IS is still optional in a lens but if the lens is compact and slow then IS is almost essential.

As each new sensor/mount format is put forward the camera body side is relatively easy but providing suitable oem lenses in any quantity is very hard.  As a result each new format starts off with a host of cheaper kit level lenses and it is only some time afterwards that the more impressive, larger and expensive variety arrive.  Sony seems to be bucking this norm by introducing some quite expensive and quite large lenses with its A7 type.  This is much to the dismay of the NEX-plebs who sort of imagined the A7 is some sort of super-NEX which it is and it is not at the same time.  The not part being the difficult part.  Now it requires a much more serious investment to jump to a FF camera body.  And the compact size is the first real casuality, if the bodies are smaller then the lenses certainly are not.

Back to the FF 135 format film camera of yore.  Their lenses were often automatic but not all were and their flange focal distance was longer to accommodate the mirror box.  Furthermore the petite shorter flange focal distance RF lenses were (choke!) only manual focus.  Nikon, Canon and Pentax, and others no longer with us went on to convert many of their lens designs to dslr format  flange focal length, and produce more of similar kind.

As far as I know Sony is the only company that has produced AF FF format lenses with the shorter flange focal length  (and they are still quite large physically). There are plenty of lenses about for mirrorless flange focal lengths but they are all for smaller sensor formats.

Therefore anyone wishing for a FF sensor body is looking at very few lenses made to that shorter flange focal length and must make do with re-cycling ex-slr/dslr lenses for a good while to come. Or simply adapting RF lenses to manually focus the job in hand.

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Tom Caldwell

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