OMD EM1 or Fuji XT1.. getting around noise issue on m 4/3 ?

Started Mar 26, 2014 | Discussions
Steve
Steve Senior Member • Posts: 2,420
OMD EM1 or Fuji XT1.. getting around noise issue on m 4/3 ?

i'm trolling around trying to decide between the 2 subject cameras. i want smaller and lighter  (no tri-poding  than my ex d7000.. (although xt1 takes APC sized lenses, so i'm not sure the xt1 will give me much of a size advance with an APC lens)..

The EM-1 is noisier than the Fuji.. but i'm wondering if the EM1 with its great stabilization would allow me to shoot at lower ISOs than the Fuji.. and therefore  help to minimize noise..

i guess this is a tough question as probably very few if any people have tested this out.

 Steve's gear list:Steve's gear list
Olympus E-M1 Olympus PEN-F Panasonic Lumix G X Vario PZ 45-175mm F4.0-5.6 ASPH OIS Olympus M.Zuiko Digital 17mm 1:1.8 Olympus 12-40mm F2.8
Fujifilm X-T1 Nikon D7000 Olympus E-M1
If you believe there are incorrect tags, please send us this post using our feedback form.
Big Ga Forum Pro • Posts: 18,606
Re: OMD EM1 or Fuji XT1.. getting around noise issue on m 4/3 ?
4

Steve wrote:

i'm trolling around trying to decide between the 2 subject cameras. i want smaller and lighter (no tri-poding than my ex d7000.. (although xt1 takes APC sized lenses, so i'm not sure the xt1 will give me much of a size advance with an APC lens)..

The EM-1 is noisier than the Fuji.. but i'm wondering if the EM1 with its great stabilization would allow me to shoot at lower ISOs than the Fuji.. and therefore help to minimize noise..

i guess this is a tough question as probably very few if any people have tested this out.

You must be right. There can't be any possible way there could be anybody here that owns a microfourthirds camera but also owns a bigger sensored camera and has pondered the same type of question.

pede59 Senior Member • Posts: 1,540
Re: OMD EM1 or Fuji XT1.. getting around noise issue on m 4/3 ?
4

Steve wrote:

i'm trolling around trying to decide between the 2 subject cameras. i want smaller and lighter (no tri-poding than my ex d7000.. (although xt1 takes APC sized lenses, so i'm not sure the xt1 will give me much of a size advance with an APC lens)..

The EM-1 is noisier than the Fuji.. but i'm wondering if the EM1 with its great stabilization would allow me to shoot at lower ISOs than the Fuji.. and therefore help to minimize noise..

i guess this is a tough question as probably very few if any people have tested this out.

I haven't tested how much i can increase exposure time without getting image shake. Also sometimes you need a small exposure time because your subject is moving.

That said of course there are discussion about pros and cons of each system.

See http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/53066154 as example.

It was mentioned there that Fuji adds some noise reduction before they write their raw file. If you actually take a EM1 raw file and apply a small amount of noise reduction the image quality was very comparable.

Anyways - i do not believe that the cameras are worlds apart in IQ as it is sometimes presented.

dgrogers Veteran Member • Posts: 7,079
Re: OMD EM1 or Fuji XT1.. getting around noise issue on m 4/3 ?
4

Steve wrote:

i'm trolling around trying to decide between the 2 subject cameras. i want smaller and lighter (no tri-poding than my ex d7000.. (although xt1 takes APC sized lenses, so i'm not sure the xt1 will give me much of a size advance with an APC lens)..

The EM-1 is noisier than the Fuji.. but i'm wondering if the EM1 with its great stabilization would allow me to shoot at lower ISOs than the Fuji.. and therefore help to minimize noise..

i guess this is a tough question as probably very few if any people have tested this out.

There really isn't much of a noise difference between m4/3 and the APS chip on the Fuji. The Fuji demozaicing algorithm is quite heavy on the noise reduction due to the nature of the color filter array, leaving many higher ISO pictures lacking in the detail department.

-- hide signature --

Completely infatuated with the "OMG"

 dgrogers's gear list:dgrogers's gear list
Olympus E-1 Samsung NX20 Olympus OM-D E-M10
GBC Senior Member • Posts: 1,258
Re: OMD EM1 or Fuji XT1.. getting around noise issue on m 4/3 ?

I can get steady shots with a normal focal length in excess of 1 second on the em1 and em5.
Doubtful you could do that with the fuji.

If the fuji has one stop better in the high ISO noise department, you'll definitely be able to shoot lower ISOs using image stabilization, depending on the subject of course.

jim stirling
jim stirling Veteran Member • Posts: 7,356
Re: OMD EM1 or Fuji XT1.. getting around noise issue on m 4/3 ?
2

pede59 wrote:

It was mentioned there that Fuji adds some noise reduction before they write their raw file. If you actually take a EM1 raw file and apply a small amount of noise reduction the image quality was very comparable.

While you are right that people claim this and it may even be correct .There is no way to match the noise and detail level of the X-T1 using the E-M1 .This is a 100% crop sample of both cameras at 3200ISO , NR turned off in ACR { ACR is far from optimum for Fuji RAW files}, no processing other than cropping to size. Sample area taken from the centre of the image wh ere the respective lenses do best. Sure you can add NR to the E-M1 { at the cost of detail where it is already lagging } , sharpen the detail and the noise becomes intolerable .So no you cannot match the image quality.

I think the best you can claim is that the obvious gap  in image quality may be a bit narrower than some conclude but the gap is very real

Link to RAW files

E-M1

http://www.focus-numerique.com/test-1766/compact-a-objectifs-interchangeables-olympus-e-m1-bruit-electronique-12.html

X-T1

http://www.focus-numerique.com/test-1833/compact-a-objectifs-interchangeables-fujifilm-x-t1-bruit-electronique-12.html

Here are the E-M1 vs the X-T1 at 3200ISO , both shots taken with the same lighting, same aperture and shutter speed

Straight raw ACR nr off zero processing

NR added to E-M1 { it now has even less detail while still lagging behind noise wise}

NR added to E-M1

 jim stirling's gear list:jim stirling's gear list
Panasonic FZ1000 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GF1 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX7 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH4 Nikon D810 +12 more
drcPhoto
drcPhoto Contributing Member • Posts: 611
Re: OMD EM1 or Fuji XT1.. getting around noise issue on m 4/3 ?
2

Steve wrote:

i'm trolling around trying to decide between the 2 subject cameras. i want smaller and lighter (no tri-poding than my ex d7000.. (although xt1 takes APC sized lenses, so i'm not sure the xt1 will give me much of a size advance with an APC lens)..

The EM-1 is noisier than the Fuji.. but i'm wondering if the EM1 with its great stabilization would allow me to shoot at lower ISOs than the Fuji.. and therefore help to minimize noise..

i guess this is a tough question as probably very few if any people have tested this out.

Well I have seen this question asked on the Fuji X forum, and of course you can only imagine the response.  They would tell you in a heartbeat to pick the Fuji XT1 due to the larger sensor and Fuji's great colors.  Perhaps they are right.  I sure looked at the new Fuji when I was searching for another 2nd camera body.  The new Fuji XT1 certainly seems like a much improved and great camera, but then so is the new E-M1.  While the focusing issues seem improved, I still read about owners with issues it is still not as fast as they would want.  Too bad too the Fuji didn't incorporate some kind of image stabilization and rear touch screen or they might have a perfect camera. I opted to buy the E-M1 for the super fast focus, the great stabilization, the focus peaking I didn't have in my GH3, and because I already had some great lenses for my GH3 that would work on a E-M1.

I have had the E-M1 for about a month and I have no real regrets.  The E-M1 is an outstanding camera with overall exception features.  Not perfect, but very very good.  I seriously doubt the image quality you would get from either camera is that far apart, but if you are a being technical you would have to rightly still give the nod to the Fuji XT1 by a slim margin.  For quick focus, for stabilization, for overall features, I think it is more a draw or tilting towards the E-M1.  It won't disappoint you.  Also some exceptional lense choices in MFT.

Dale

 drcPhoto's gear list:drcPhoto's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH3 Sony Cyber-shot DSC-HX9V Fujifilm X100T Olympus E-M1 Voigtlander Nokton 25mm F0.95 +27 more
SGA
SGA Regular Member • Posts: 170
Re: OMD EM1 or Fuji XT1.. getting around noise issue on m 4/3 ?
2

I couldn't see any real difference between my E-M5 and my Nikon D7000, so I doubt I would see any vs. the XT1.  In theory it should be a stop or less anyway; in my opinion, it's much less.

 SGA's gear list:SGA's gear list
Sony RX100 III Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX7 Olympus E-M1 Olympus E-M1 II Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 9-18mm F4.0-5.6 +8 more
jim stirling
jim stirling Veteran Member • Posts: 7,356
Re: OMD EM1 or Fuji XT1.. getting around noise issue on m 4/3 ?
6

dgrogers wrote:

Steve wrote:

i'm trolling around trying to decide between the 2 subject cameras. i want smaller and lighter (no tri-poding than my ex d7000.. (although xt1 takes APC sized lenses, so i'm not sure the xt1 will give me much of a size advance with an APC lens)..

The EM-1 is noisier than the Fuji.. but i'm wondering if the EM1 with its great stabilization would allow me to shoot at lower ISOs than the Fuji.. and therefore help to minimize noise..

i guess this is a tough question as probably very few if any people have tested this out.

There really isn't much of a noise difference between m4/3 and the APS chip on the Fuji. The Fuji demozaicing algorithm is quite heavy on the noise reduction due to the nature of the color filter array, leaving many higher ISO pictures lacking in the detail department.

-- hide signature --

Completely infatuated with the "OMG"

How would you solve the problem that the E-M1 displays both more noise and less detail than the X-T1. Add NR to Olympus bye bye detail , add sharpening and wow noise is going to be really bad at high ISO on E-M1 .The gap is not closeable by any processing , the only question is how wide the gap is and how much it matters. I do not have nor have I ever had a Fuji camera while I do have the E-M1 a superb device in many many ways unfortunately its image quality simply isn't on a par with the best APS. This is a sacrifice I am prepared to make as their is an excellent selection of lenses and accessories for mFT , combined with lovely video quality especially in Panasonic.

Now if Fuji had video as good as Panasonic and some faster zooms it would be a very attractive option.However as I am also a Nikon FF user the advantages of the Fuji image quality are outdone by the advantages { size ,weight choice of lenses, video etc} of mFT. And as I already have access to better image quality it is simply not enough.

Jim

 jim stirling's gear list:jim stirling's gear list
Panasonic FZ1000 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GF1 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX7 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH4 Nikon D810 +12 more
jim stirling
jim stirling Veteran Member • Posts: 7,356
Re: OMD EM1 or Fuji XT1.. getting around noise issue on m 4/3 ?
1

GBC wrote:

I can get steady shots with a normal focal length in excess of 1 second on the em1 and em5.
Doubtful you could do that with the fuji.

Other than very static subjects in very low light with no form of camera support { tripod,gorrilapod,beanbag , ultrapod whatever}  just how useful a feature is that ?

 jim stirling's gear list:jim stirling's gear list
Panasonic FZ1000 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GF1 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX7 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH4 Nikon D810 +12 more
Daniel Lauring
Daniel Lauring Veteran Member • Posts: 9,263
Re: OMD EM1 or Fuji XT1.. getting around noise issue on m 4/3 ?
1

Steve wrote:

i'm trolling around trying to decide between the 2 subject cameras. i want smaller and lighter (no tri-poding than my ex d7000.. (although xt1 takes APC sized lenses, so i'm not sure the xt1 will give me much of a size advance with an APC lens)..

The EM-1 is noisier than the Fuji.. but i'm wondering if the EM1 with its great stabilization would allow me to shoot at lower ISOs than the Fuji.. and therefore help to minimize noise..

i guess this is a tough question as probably very few if any people have tested this out.

Between the two the OMD is just a little more mature on a more mature platform. It's focus performance and features (like touch screen) are better. There are more lens choices. The difference in image quality is pretty small with APSC being a little smoother at high ISO's.

Having said that, I find my Fujis get more use. But when speed and focus accuracy are required I switch to the OMD.

Here is my post comparing 5 cameras.  FYI I have an X-T1 on order.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/53367602

DonTom Contributing Member • Posts: 535
Re: OMD EM1 or Fuji XT1.. getting around noise issue on m 4/3 ?
3

jim stirling wrote:

pede59 wrote:

It was mentioned there that Fuji adds some noise reduction before they write their raw file. If you actually take a EM1 raw file and apply a small amount of noise reduction the image quality was very comparable.

While you are right that people claim this and it may even be correct .There is no way to match the noise and detail level of the X-T1 using the E-M1 .This is a 100% crop sample of both cameras at 3200ISO , NR turned off in ACR { ACR is far from optimum for Fuji RAW files}, no processing other than cropping to size. Sample area taken from the centre of the image wh ere the respective lenses do best. Sure you can add NR to the E-M1 { at the cost of detail where it is already lagging } , sharpen the detail and the noise becomes intolerable .So no you cannot match the image quality.

I think the best you can claim is that the obvious gap in image quality may be a bit narrower than some conclude but the gap is very real

Link to RAW files

E-M1

http://www.focus-numerique.com/test-1766/compact-a-objectifs-interchangeables-olympus-e-m1-bruit-electronique-12.html

X-T1

http://www.focus-numerique.com/test-1833/compact-a-objectifs-interchangeables-fujifilm-x-t1-bruit-electronique-12.html

Here are the E-M1 vs the X-T1 at 3200ISO , both shots taken with the same lighting, same aperture and shutter speed

Straight raw ACR nr off zero processing

NR added to E-M1 { it now has even less detail while still lagging behind noise wise}

NR added to E-M1

"There is no way to match the noise and detail level of the X-T1 using the E-M1"

Umm, this is more than slightly wrong. You just need to shoot at lower ISO and slower shutter speeds to match the X-T1. Which is exactly what the OP was asking. Comparing two cameras at ISO3200 is not comparing their capabilities in every situation, it's comparing their performance at ISO3200.

 DonTom's gear list:DonTom's gear list
Olympus PEN E-PL1 Olympus E-M1 Panasonic Lumix G 20mm F1.7 ASPH Panasonic Lumix G 14mm F2.5 ASPH Olympus M.Zuiko Digital 45mm F1.8 +9 more
DonTom Contributing Member • Posts: 535
Re: OMD EM1 or Fuji XT1.. getting around noise issue on m 4/3 ?
5

jim stirling wrote:

GBC wrote:

I can get steady shots with a normal focal length in excess of 1 second on the em1 and em5.
Doubtful you could do that with the fuji.

Other than very static subjects in very low light with no form of camera support { tripod,gorrilapod,beanbag , ultrapod whatever} just how useful a feature is that ?

If it allows you to choose a lower ISO to avoid noise issues, it's a very useful feature. I use it all the time.

 DonTom's gear list:DonTom's gear list
Olympus PEN E-PL1 Olympus E-M1 Panasonic Lumix G 20mm F1.7 ASPH Panasonic Lumix G 14mm F2.5 ASPH Olympus M.Zuiko Digital 45mm F1.8 +9 more
jim stirling
jim stirling Veteran Member • Posts: 7,356
Re: OMD EM1 or Fuji XT1.. getting around noise issue on m 4/3 ?
5

DonTom wrote:

jim stirling wrote:

pede59 wrote:

It was mentioned there that Fuji adds some noise reduction before they write their raw file. If you actually take a EM1 raw file and apply a small amount of noise reduction the image quality was very comparable.

While you are right that people claim this and it may even be correct .There is no way to match the noise and detail level of the X-T1 using the E-M1 .This is a 100% crop sample of both cameras at 3200ISO , NR turned off in ACR { ACR is far from optimum for Fuji RAW files}, no processing other than cropping to size. Sample area taken from the centre of the image wh ere the respective lenses do best. Sure you can add NR to the E-M1 { at the cost of detail where it is already lagging } , sharpen the detail and the noise becomes intolerable .So no you cannot match the image quality.

I think the best you can claim is that the obvious gap in image quality may be a bit narrower than some conclude but the gap is very real

Link to RAW files

E-M1

http://www.focus-numerique.com/test-1766/compact-a-objectifs-interchangeables-olympus-e-m1-bruit-electronique-12.html

X-T1

http://www.focus-numerique.com/test-1833/compact-a-objectifs-interchangeables-fujifilm-x-t1-bruit-electronique-12.html

Here are the E-M1 vs the X-T1 at 3200ISO , both shots taken with the same lighting, same aperture and shutter speed

Straight raw ACR nr off zero processing

NR added to E-M1 { it now has even less detail while still lagging behind noise wise}

NR added to E-M1

"There is no way to match the noise and detail level of the X-T1 using the E-M1"

Umm, this is more than slightly wrong. You just need to shoot at lower ISO and slower shutter speeds to match the X-T1. Which is exactly what the OP was asking. Comparing two cameras at ISO3200 is not comparing their capabilities in every situation, it's comparing their performance at ISO3200.

Sure if you shoot low light, slow shutter speed  static subjects using primes not zooms , and have no access to camera supports { tripods, gorrilla pods,ultrapod, beanbag, etc}  then the built in IS can come in handy . Does that account for much of your photography ?

 jim stirling's gear list:jim stirling's gear list
Panasonic FZ1000 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GF1 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX7 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH4 Nikon D810 +12 more
jim stirling
jim stirling Veteran Member • Posts: 7,356
Re: OMD EM1 or Fuji XT1.. getting around noise issue on m 4/3 ?
4

DonTom wrote:

jim stirling wrote:

GBC wrote:

I can get steady shots with a normal focal length in excess of 1 second on the em1 and em5.
Doubtful you could do that with the fuji.

Other than very static subjects in very low light with no form of camera support { tripod,gorrilapod,beanbag , ultrapod whatever} just how useful a feature is that ?

If it allows you to choose a lower ISO to avoid noise issues, it's a very useful feature. I use it all the time.

You may use it all the time but it only benefits you if you are shooting a static subject in very low light at a very slow shutter speed and using primes as Fuji has  zoom lenses starting at 15mm { FF equiv AOV } . So once again IS { of any kind }  is very useful in certain niche situations no doubt . Though I would certainly question just how significant a part of most peoples photography this actually covers. If you can get to the focal reciprocal shutter speed IS does nothing, if you are shooting moving subjects it does nothing, if you are shooting zooms all the systems have a wide focal range covered .

 jim stirling's gear list:jim stirling's gear list
Panasonic FZ1000 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GF1 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX7 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH4 Nikon D810 +12 more
Gregm61 Forum Pro • Posts: 15,018
Re: OMD EM1 or Fuji XT1.. getting around noise issue on m 4/3 ?
4

Steve wrote:

i'm trolling around trying to decide between the 2 subject cameras. i want smaller and lighter  (no tri-poding  than my ex d7000.. (although xt1 takes APC sized lenses, so i'm not sure the xt1 will give me much of a size advance with an APC lens)..

The EM-1 is noisier than the Fuji.. but i'm wondering if the EM1 with its great stabilization would allow me to shoot at lower ISOs than the Fuji.. and therefore  help to minimize noise..

i guess this is a tough question as probably very few if any people have tested this out.

These cameras are as noisey or noiseless as the users ability to process the files in the software of their choice, assuming competent use of that software. Bigger sensor should equal some amount of cleaner results, especially with JPEG's, but a lot of the noise "issue" is completely controllable by the user, regardless of the camera you are using.

I would be willing to bet in more cases than not the bigger difference comparing two cameras is the user. Ming Thein with a GM1 could produce images some could never realize with a Nikon D4.

-- hide signature --

"There's shadows in life, baby.." Jack Horner- Boogie Nights

 Gregm61's gear list:Gregm61's gear list
Leica M9 Olympus E-M1 Leica M (Typ 262) Olympus E-M1 II Olympus Zuiko Digital ED 50mm 1:2.0 Macro +27 more
jim stirling
jim stirling Veteran Member • Posts: 7,356
Re: OMD EM1 or Fuji XT1.. getting around noise issue on m 4/3 ?
1

Gregm61 wrote:

Steve wrote:

i'm trolling around trying to decide between the 2 subject cameras. i want smaller and lighter (no tri-poding than my ex d7000.. (although xt1 takes APC sized lenses, so i'm not sure the xt1 will give me much of a size advance with an APC lens)..

The EM-1 is noisier than the Fuji.. but i'm wondering if the EM1 with its great stabilization would allow me to shoot at lower ISOs than the Fuji.. and therefore help to minimize noise..

i guess this is a tough question as probably very few if any people have tested this out.

These cameras are as noisey or noiseless as the users ability to process the files in the software of their choice, assuming competent use of that software. Bigger sensor should equal some amount of cleaner results, especially with JPEG's, but a lot of the noise "issue" is completely controllable by the user, regardless of the camera you are using.

How do you achieve  the wondrous feat of reducing noise while enhancing detail :-).NR is always at the cost of detail , so larger formats with both more detailed and less noisy high ISO image quality cannot be matched. You can also do anything to the larger format that you can to the smaller thus maintaining the advantage

 jim stirling's gear list:jim stirling's gear list
Panasonic FZ1000 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GF1 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX7 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH4 Nikon D810 +12 more
drj3 Veteran Member • Posts: 6,403
Re: OMD EM1 or Fuji XT1.. getting around noise issue on m 4/3 ?
4

jim stirling wrote:

DonTom wrote:

jim stirling wrote:

GBC wrote:

I can get steady shots with a normal focal length in excess of 1 second on the em1 and em5.
Doubtful you could do that with the fuji.

Other than very static subjects in very low light with no form of camera support { tripod,gorrilapod,beanbag , ultrapod whatever} just how useful a feature is that ?

If it allows you to choose a lower ISO to avoid noise issues, it's a very useful feature. I use it all the time.

You may use it all the time but it only benefits you if you are shooting a static subject in very low light at a very slow shutter speed and using primes as Fuji has zoom lenses starting at 15mm { FF equiv AOV } . So once again IS { of any kind } is very useful in certain niche situations no doubt . Though I would certainly question just how significant a part of most peoples photography this actually covers. If you can get to the focal reciprocal shutter speed IS does nothing, if you are shooting moving subjects it does nothing, if you are shooting zooms all the systems have a wide focal range covered .

Much of my photography is wildlife of various types which for non-moving wildlife is typically shot hand held at 1/100-1/200 second (sometimes as low as 1/50 second - EC14+50-200) at f5 and 566mm equivalent which enables me to keep the ISO low. Can I do that with the XT1 and will the image be of higher quality?

-- hide signature --

drj3

 drj3's gear list:drj3's gear list
Olympus E-510 Olympus E-5 Olympus E-M1 Olympus OM-D E-M10 Olympus E-M1 II +7 more
Steve
OP Steve Senior Member • Posts: 2,420
Re: OMD EM1 or Fuji XT1.. getting around noise issue on m 4/3 ?

SGA wrote:

I couldn't see any real difference between my E-M5 and my Nikon D7000, so I doubt I would see any vs. the XT1. In theory it should be a stop or less anyway; in my opinion, it's much less.

wow..

 Steve's gear list:Steve's gear list
Olympus E-M1 Olympus PEN-F Panasonic Lumix G X Vario PZ 45-175mm F4.0-5.6 ASPH OIS Olympus M.Zuiko Digital 17mm 1:1.8 Olympus 12-40mm F2.8
Steve
OP Steve Senior Member • Posts: 2,420
Re: OMD EM1 or Fuji XT1.. getting around noise issue on m 4/3 ?

pretty much my type of photography, but i was using an 18-200 (love the 1 lens approach), so now i'm willing to go to 18-55 and 55-whatever (maybe)

 Steve's gear list:Steve's gear list
Olympus E-M1 Olympus PEN-F Panasonic Lumix G X Vario PZ 45-175mm F4.0-5.6 ASPH OIS Olympus M.Zuiko Digital 17mm 1:1.8 Olympus 12-40mm F2.8
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads