First day with X-E2 -- definitely NOT good :(

Started Mar 25, 2014 | Discussions
Dick Ginkowski Senior Member • Posts: 1,963
First day with X-E2 -- definitely NOT good :(

I was surprised a day early with delivery of the Fuji X-E2 with the XF 18-55mm lens which was promptly shipped from the dealer (Vistek-Toronto). The good news stops there. Upon opening the package I found two boxes inside. One was the kit box for the X-E2. The other was a separate box for the XF 18-55mm lens. This seemed peculiar in that there is supposed to be a lens inside the kit box. When I opened the kit box the lens was missing (the lens hood was in the box), the warranty card was missing, the camera body was smudged and the wrapper was opened, the CD appeared to have been opened and the same for some of the accessories in the box. It was pretty evident that I did not receive a "new" product and the absence of the lens from the box was very troubling. This is the first professional grade Fuji product I've purchased but how can I trust Fuji when something like this happens? I spent several hours on the phone with the dealer over this issue. Instead of having a camera to use I had to drive to a FedEx office to return it. They have my money -- I do not have the camera kit. They mentioned something about perhaps not having one in stock but then somehow one was located. (I had suggested that they could have sent out a black XE-2 body as I already had the lens.) Will it also be a used product or a demo? What compensates me for the hours I've spent trying to rectify this situation that never should have happened in the first place?

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Astrophotographer 10 Forum Pro • Posts: 11,027
Re: First day with X-E2 -- definitely NOT good :(
8

In my opinion this is the downside to the US retailers policy of offering a 30 day return period for purchases. It opens the door to this sort of thing. What do retailers normally do with the returns?

Judging by a lot of posts on this and other forums it would seem the number of returns is massive.

Surely that policy, whilst great for consumers, must be hiking prices up quite a bit more than they would be otherwise.

Greg.

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jhorse Senior Member • Posts: 2,716
Re: First day with X-E2 -- definitely NOT good :(

Hi, very poor service verging on dishonesty. It shows to me that if possible I would always go to a reputable dealer and purchase in person rather than trusting a despatch service. This sounds more like a dealer than a Fuji issue in that the dealer seems to have taken advantage of a postal despatch and fobbed you off with a non-new product, despite you purchasing a new product in good faith.

I see you are an attorney so you probably have a better idea of how to manage this unacceptable situation better than most, but I would be demanding a full refund, including costs, and I would be considering naming and shaming them. Certainly, I would never use such a dealer again if I had been subjected to such dishonesty.

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secretworld Senior Member • Posts: 1,712
Re: First day with X-E2 -- definitely NOT good :(
9

I understand your dismay! But I don't understand what this has to do with Fuji or Fuji pro??? The dealer/shop did this and they should have warned you and given you options, like discount or waiting for a fully new one.

I was very lucky, I bought a heavily discounted X-E1 And although the box was open everything inside was untouched/unopened. I was expecting a demo at least for that price.

Hope everything works out for you!

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Marcos Villaroman Veteran Member • Posts: 5,738
Re: First day with X-E2 -- definitely NOT good :(

Dick Ginkowski wrote:

I was surprised a day early with delivery of the Fuji X-E2 with the XF 18-55mm lens which was promptly shipped from the dealer (Vistek-Toronto). The good news stops there. Upon opening the package I found two boxes inside. One was the kit box for the X-E2. The other was a separate box for the XF 18-55mm lens. This seemed peculiar in that there is supposed to be a lens inside the kit box. When I opened the kit box the lens was missing (the lens hood was in the box), the warranty card was missing, the camera body was smudged and the wrapper was opened, the CD appeared to have been opened and the same for some of the accessories in the box. It was pretty evident that I did not receive a "new" product and the absence of the lens from the box was very troubling. This is the first professional grade Fuji product I've purchased but how can I trust Fuji when something like this happens? I spent several hours on the phone with the dealer over this issue. Instead of having a camera to use I had to drive to a FedEx office to return it. They have my money -- I do not have the camera kit. They mentioned something about perhaps not having one in stock but then somehow one was located. (I had suggested that they could have sent out a black XE-2 body as I already had the lens.) Will it also be a used product or a demo? What compensates me for the hours I've spent trying to rectify this situation that never should have happened in the first place?

Sorry to hear you got a badly handled used camera.  Missing warranty card and obvious sign of a poorly handled return are big flags against that store.  Sounds like they wanted to make as much money as they could, given how hard it might be to keep this camera in stock right now.

A local camera store to me had a bad reputation for putting returned items back on the shelf for re-sale as new, rationalizing it as the item may not be broken at all; just customer error or not what was expected.  Needless to say I don't shop there for things more expensive than a bubble wrapped accessory.

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beckmarc Regular Member • Posts: 140
Re: First day with X-E2 -- definitely NOT good :(

It sounds like a dealer fault and not something one can blame Fuji for.  The return polices in the US (and I suspect Canadian stores copy this to compete) are very generous by international standards. I hope things get sorted out to your satisfaction.  i too would be horrified if I received a "new" camera in the condition you describe.  Good Luck!

Macintosh Sauce
Macintosh Sauce Contributing Member • Posts: 706
Re: First day with X-E2 -- definitely NOT good :(

Personally, I'd send it back. When I buy factory-sealed, new products I expect them to be exactly like that. This was obviously a return.

Peter Jonas Veteran Member • Posts: 3,446
Re: First day with X-E2 -- definitely NOT Fuji's fault

Dick Ginkowski wrote:

... It was pretty evident that I did not receive a "new" product and the absence of the lens from the box was very troubling.

Did you actually buy a new product? I would have also been very troubled by the absense of the lens.

This is the first professional grade Fuji product I've purchased but how can I trust Fuji when something like this happens?

I trust you realise this has nothing to do with Fuji.

The retailer sold you an open box product, AND they failed to inspect it before dispatching.

I spent several hours on the phone with the dealer over this issue. Instead of having a camera to use I had to drive to a FedEx office to return it. They have my money -- I do not have the camera kit. They mentioned something about perhaps not having one in stock but then somehow one was located. (I had suggested that they could have sent out a black XE-2 body as I already had the lens.) Will it also be a used product or a demo?

You need to discuss this with your retailer. On the positive side they have agreed to supply you with a replacement new product. It could have been a much more awkward situation if they insisted the lens was in the package when it was dispatched. It has happened before, and it could have got much more ugly from your point of view.

What compensates me for the hours I've spent trying to rectify this situation that never should have happened in the first place?

I do not know. But perhaps you can consider it as compensation that you now know how to deal with this retailer in the future.

I sure hope it works out well for you. I don't think Fuji has let you down in any way. The X-E2 with the 18-55mm zoom lens is a fantastic kit to have.

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Cheers,
Peter Jonas

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Peter Jonas Veteran Member • Posts: 3,446
Re: I misunderstood - Ignore my previous post.

In my previous post I misunderstood your situation. I thought your lens was missing altogether, and formulated my response accordingly.

Later on I realised you actually did have a brand new lens, but it was in its own separate packaging instead of being in the kit package.

This renders parts of my earlier post response invalid, but my Edit Post timing had run out, so I was unable to correct it.

Here is what I should have posted:

Dick Ginkowski wrote:

... It was pretty evident that I did not receive a "new" product and the absence of the lens from the box was very troubling.

Was the product you bought advertised as brand new. I suppose it was, but can you please confirm this?

Since you had a brand new lens in a separate box, maybe it should have been less troubling or no troubling at all. A separate lens in its own packaging is worth more on the second hand market than the same lens separated from a kit without its own packaging.

This is the first professional grade Fuji product I've purchased but how can I trust Fuji when something like this happens?

I trust you realise this has nothing to do with Fuji.

The retailer sold you an open box product for the camera. However, the lens was new.

I spent several hours on the phone with the dealer over this issue. Instead of having a camera to use I had to drive to a FedEx office to return it. They have my money -- I do not have the camera kit. They mentioned something about perhaps not having one in stock but then somehow one was located. (I had suggested that they could have sent out a black XE-2 body as I already had the lens.) Will it also be a used product or a demo?

You need to discuss this with your retailer. On the positive side they have agreed to supply you with a replacement new product.

What compensates me for the hours I've spent trying to rectify this situation that never should have happened in the first place?

I do not know. But perhaps you can consider it as compensation that you now know how to deal with this retailer in the future.

I sure hope it works out well for you. I don't think Fuji has let you down in any way. The X-E2 with the 18-55mm zoom lens is a fantastic kit to have.

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Cheers,
Peter Jonas

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57LowRider Veteran Member • Posts: 3,995
Re: First day with X-E2 -- definitely NOT good :(
6

Your thread title is rather misleading. You've been stuffed by the dealer, not the camera.

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OP Dick Ginkowski Senior Member • Posts: 1,963
Re: Fuji
1

Fuji, while it may not be to blame, actually does have some stake in this in that they license dealers and obviously do not want them engaging in questionable practices plus they are responsible for warranty administration. As the warranty card was missing it is possible that the previous owner attempted to or did register the product which could cause warranty issues later plus there is another warranty issue due to the return and the need to adjust the warranty "clock" which begins ticking from the date of sale.  Manufacturers/distributors actually do have quite a bit of clout and can and often have stepped in to resolve problems plus the only way they will know if there are problems with a dealer is when customers complain.  In over 30 years of consumer protection work I've seen manufacturers pull a lot of rabbits out of hats to resolve problems and most do want to know about them.

As a footnote, and this did not involve a dealer problem, there are times when it can be a manufacturer's issue (not the case here). I bought a new Canon 1DII from an authorized dealer.  The Canon USA/Canada warranty card was in the box with the proper manuals, etc.  Canon USA originally rejected the rebate and warranty registration because the UPC and serial number did not match its inventory.  Upon further investigation Canon discovered its error in that the camera was boxed for sale in the Netherlands although it had the USA/Canada warranty card, manuals, charger, etc., inside.  The good news for me was that instead of it taking weeks to get a rebate check it arrived in days -- literally manually produced (typewritten).

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OP Dick Ginkowski Senior Member • Posts: 1,963
Re: First day with X-E2 -- definitely NOT good :(

I, too, am surprised at how liberally people have been able to return cameras for reasons other than defects but at the same time it's annoying (and wrong) to have a product that may have issues put back on the shelf and resold.  In the few instances where I have returned products I make sure to flag whether it is defective and should not be resold.  In the case of camera products, those items should ultimately go back to the manufacturer for inspection and repair, if possible, whereupon they can be sold as refurbished.

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ryan2007 Forum Pro • Posts: 12,001
Re: First day with X-E2 -- definitely NOT good :(

Just return the camera and move on to a different retailer.  Generally speaking and I do not know if where you bought this camera is like that. But buying from a huge internet retailer like a Amazon or Overstock or any place that sells everything from cameras to backyard play sets and lawn furniture I would stay away from for a main electronic purchase like a camera, or a Apple computer. Things like accessories bags, filters, lens caps anything with non moving parts ok.

B&H Photo ships worldwide and I have never had issue.

I do not like Adorama mainly because they are not dependable when it comes to stock levels when you think they have it at check out they do not.

Certain products are best bought at a specialty store. Cameras at camera stores etc.

Les Lammers
Les Lammers Veteran Member • Posts: 3,478
Re: First day with X-E2 -- definitely NOT good :(

Yeah, sue the dealer for your pain and suffering. Fuji had nothing to do with this.

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dengx Senior Member • Posts: 1,030
Re: Fuji

Dick Ginkowski wrote:

Fuji, while it may not be to blame, actually does have some stake in this in that they license dealers and obviously do not want them engaging in questionable practices

It's not like a car dealership - literally any shop can buy from the Fujifilm and sell it later.

plus they are responsible for warranty administration. As the warranty card was missing

I do not know how it is in the US/CAN but here in Poland there is no warranty card at all for 2-3 years now.

You just register the camera/lenses on the Fujifilm registration site and after that the only thing you need when servicing is the proof of purchase.

This is the site: http://warranty.fujifilm-digital.com/

Regards

John Carson Veteran Member • Posts: 4,237
Re: Fuji

Dick Ginkowski wrote:

Fuji, while it may not be to blame, actually does have some stake in this in that they license dealers and obviously do not want them engaging in questionable practices plus they are responsible for warranty administration. As the warranty card was missing it is possible that the previous owner attempted to or did register the product which could cause warranty issues later plus there is another warranty issue due to the return and the need to adjust the warranty "clock" which begins ticking from the date of sale. Manufacturers/distributors actually do have quite a bit of clout and can and often have stepped in to resolve problems plus the only way they will know if there are problems with a dealer is when customers complain. In over 30 years of consumer protection work I've seen manufacturers pull a lot of rabbits out of hats to resolve problems and most do want to know about them.

This sounds very doubtful to me. There are plenty of dodgy sellers of every brand of camera out there. Some of these may be "licensed" in some sense, but if a store puts in an order for 500 Fuji cameras (or 500 Canon or Nikon cameras), I don't believe there is much chance of the manufacturer knocking them back.

If this seller has some sort of special relationship with Fuji, then it may be keen to protect its reputation in order to maintain that relationship. If, however, it is just an ordinary seller, then I think it is a case of "buyer beware".

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john carson

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OP Dick Ginkowski Senior Member • Posts: 1,963
Re: First day with X-E2 -- definitely NOT good :(

ryan2007 wrote:

Just return the camera and move on to a different retailer. Generally speaking and I do not know if where you bought this camera is like that. But buying from a huge internet retailer like a Amazon or Overstock or any place that sells everything from cameras to backyard play sets and lawn furniture I would stay away from for a main electronic purchase like a camera, or a Apple computer. Things like accessories bags, filters, lens caps anything with non moving parts ok.

B&H Photo ships worldwide and I have never had issue.

I do not like Adorama mainly because they are not dependable when it comes to stock levels when you think they have it at check out they do not.

Certain products are best bought at a specialty store. Cameras at camera stores etc.

This actually came from a large brick and mortar store which also does online sales (Vistek).

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Toccata47 Senior Member • Posts: 2,800
Re: First day with X-E2 -- definitely NOT good :(

What compensates me for the time I"ve lost reading this senseless whine? Deal with your dealer. This isn't fuji's fault.

OP Dick Ginkowski Senior Member • Posts: 1,963
Agree -- not Fuji's fault

And never said that it was (although they can be part of the solution).  Identifying questionable practices by a seller, however, is good information for everyone. Had you read the original thread correctly you would have seen that.

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Peter Jonas Veteran Member • Posts: 3,446
Re: Fuji

Dick Ginkowski wrote:

Fuji, while it may not be to blame, actually does have some stake in this ...

They may well do.

However, from your post "This is the first professional grade Fuji product I've purchased but how can I trust Fuji when something like this happens?", you appear to blame Fuji for what happened. In my opinion, in this case, losing trust in the manufacturer is not a reasonable conclusion to draw.

While it is the manufacturer's well considered interest that situations like this do not occur, when they do, I think the retailer concerned is the entity that need to be held responsible.

Perhaps, the manufacturer can be notified, and such occurances could be brought to their attention, but if you are to stop trusting anyone it would have to be the retailer.

On the other hand the retailer offered you immediate remedy, so it may have been a a genuine honest mistake. Surely, when this happens to any of us it is very inconvenient and most of us would feel it is unfair. It is, but occasionally it does happen, and we just need to deal with it. You have done so. I sincerely hope it will be resolved to your satisfaction and that it is not going to happen to you again.

I am afraid there may be very little compensation for your time and effort spent in fixing it other than the fact that you have been able to fix it.

... in that they license dealers and obviously do not want them engaging in questionable practices ...

True. However judging by the fact that the retailer offered to remedy the situation, it may have been a mistake, rather than questionable practice. You have to make your own judgement on this, and continue to deal with this particular retailer accordingly.

... plus they are responsible for warranty administration. As the warranty card was missing it is possible that the previous owner attempted to or did register the product which could cause warranty issues later plus there is another warranty issue due to the return and the need to adjust the warranty "clock" which begins ticking from the date of sale.

Once it became evident that you had not received a new product, then your problem is not really a possible warranty date issue, but an issue of receiving a brand new product. When you receive the brand new product you no longer have to worry about warranty dates .

Manufacturers/distributors actually do have quite a bit of clout and can and often have stepped in to resolve problems plus the only way they will know if there are problems with a dealer is when customers complain. In over 30 years of consumer protection work I've seen manufacturers pull a lot of rabbits out of hats to resolve problems and most do want to know about them.

Yes. Have you contacted Fuji about the issue?

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Cheers,
Peter Jonas

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