Some casual portraits with the 30-110: an excellent lens...

[André BARELIER]

André as a rule I normally shoot in RAW and then convert afterwards.

What happened here was that my wife and I had a quick lunch in a nearby pub on Saturday where the light was quite dim, but with strong daylight coming through the windows. I was wondering what shots in B&W would look like and quickly set the V1 to RAW + jpeg with Picture Control set to B&W and took some shots just out of curiosity. I also played around with negative exposure compensation.

The B&W jpegs looked good enough on my computer afterwards, so I did not even bother with converting the RAW files.

Here's another shot of my wife where you can see the strong rim light from the windows, I dialled in -2EV compensation to make it more dramatic and fired away.

This is what makes the V1 so damn nice - it is small and light enough to carry with you all the time - just in case an unexpected opportunity arrives !

--

Jacques
apple-and-eve.com

Congrats: you have a very nice wife, a good camera, and the most important: a good eye. This pictures looks like a studio shot.

--
André

http://a.barelier.free.fr/

 

[André BARELIER]

These are great shots! My only criticism, and this doesn't have anything to do with you, is that I like Bokeh so the background to me is distracting. Aside from my preference I think you're pretty good.

 

[olyflyer]

I know. That was what I meant as well... ;-)

 

[cyuill2007]

These photos of yours really show the positive characteristics of the lens - it is sharp, and the out-of-focus areas exhibit nice bokeh.

These compositions are very good, and I love the expressions of the people in them. Well done!

 

[clearzoom]

some one please comment about the IQ and how much we can crop form a v1 image, vs APSC

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www.dpreview.com

 

[clearzoom]

I just do not understand the pircetag Nikon puts on these sets, they are above a nice DSLR/lenscombo, which outperforms the 1 series on all parts but size.

except the fps and AF speed, Nikon's DSLR FPS has lot less than Nikon 1, which has 10, 15 and now 20 fps from v1 to v3

 

[ShotFromTheSidewalk]

Pics 2 & 4 show what the V1 and lens are capable of. I don't think you could do much better with a DSLR, unless you use a f/1.4 lens.

...actually no, you don't need to have f/1.4 lenses at all to take these images.

of course not. if the 30-100 is at f4, the dof equiv on ff is f11 or so. far from f1.4

 

[ShotFromTheSidewalk]

i would say the pics are ok uncropped if u like digital noise. even at iso100. i use the camera only for unimportant shoots.

 

[ambercool]

Yes, it was C&C to your original post.

 

[BG_CX3_DPREVIEW]

Hi Jacque,

thanks for this pic, i opened it up and my eye sees what it was lookin gfor,

although you like to punch it, i could find some grain in it.

Most Jpeg BxW eliminate grain which renders a too clean picture.

Both pics very nice, you have an eye for it thats abvious.

Yesterday i was in a shop which had a 1S and J type, no V type,

dialing thru the menues was a bit of a pain, due to lacking external control buttons, i had to go deep for every small thing.

I worry when buying into 1 this might get me annoid quickly and me selling back the camera.

So, how does a V seires behave, your V1 for instance, i come from using Ricoh CX and GXR.

I set up like about 4 scenes i choose from, BxW, vignetted cross processing, normal color and a sports setting.

Once used to a V1, is swithcing between such settings easy to do?

With a Ricoh, its just pushing 1 button each, even my CX6, a PxS, can do this.

Bart

 

[olyflyer]

Pics 2 & 4 show what the V1 and lens are capable of. I don't think you could do much better with a DSLR, unless you use a f/1.4 lens.

...actually no, you don't need to have f/1.4 lenses at all to take these images.

of course not. if the 30-100 is at f4, the dof equiv on ff is f11 or so. far from f1.4

Right. I don't know how he was thinking when he made that comment.

 

[JacquesC]

Hi Jacque,

thanks for this pic, i opened it up and my eye sees what it was lookin gfor,

although you like to punch it, i could find some grain in it.

Most Jpeg BxW eliminate grain which renders a too clean picture.

Both pics very nice, you have an eye for it thats abvious.

Yesterday i was in a shop which had a 1S and J type, no V type,

dialing thru the menues was a bit of a pain, due to lacking external control buttons, i had to go deep for every small thing.

I worry when buying into 1 this might get me annoid quickly and me selling back the camera.

So, how does a V seires behave, your V1 for instance, i come from using Ricoh CX and GXR.

I set up like about 4 scenes i choose from, BxW, vignetted cross processing, normal color and a sports setting.

Once used to a V1, is swithcing between such settings easy to do?

With a Ricoh, its just pushing 1 button each, even my CX6, a PxS, can do this.

Bart

Thanks for your comments Bart.

The lack of external controls on the V1 is one of the main criticisms, but like most V1 users here I got used to it and tolerate it most of the time. The V2 improved on the V1 quite a bit regarding ease of control, etc. but I cannot comment on that since I do not have a V2. It would appear that the V3 might operate similar to the V2 but we will only really know once people have started using it.

Changing Picture Controls on the V1 does mean going into the menu, which might be bothersome if you want to do it often.

I don't know how Ricoh works, but it sounds like it is quicker to change those settings on it.

My only advice is to try and find a V1 or V2 to test and see if it will work for you.

 

[BG_CX3_DPREVIEW]

Hi Jacques, yep i can only agree i need to hold one in my hands.

Ricohs are a spoil, their UI is by far the best ever and the external controls are great, but, Ricoh outmarketted themself by the GXR system. It was actually the real first mirrorles.

Stupid idea of including hte sensor in the lens, making eveyr lens incredible expensive. I sold mine due to that.

Have another question;

how is the shot to shot time?

I mean not selecting a continuous shoot like 10 fps.

Really pressing the shutter button like 3 times.

On a DSLR (have a cannon 550), you press the shutter 3 times with no lack of time,

i know olympus pen do the same, i hope the 1 also is quick in doing so.

I shoot often sports, want to shoot 3 pics in a row of more than just 1 runner, so i point at runner 1, press, than move to runner 2, press etc,

all donw without any delay. Tried others, but they seem not to be able to trigger that fast.

Bart

 

[MattZisk]

dialing thru the menues was a bit of a pain, due to lacking external control buttons, i had to go deep for every small thing.
I worry when buying into 1 this might get me annoid quickly and me selling back the camera.

So, how does a V seires behave, your V1 for instance, i come from using Ricoh CX and GXR.

I set up like about 4 scenes i choose from, BxW, vignetted cross processing, normal color and a sports setting.

Once used to a V1, is swithcing between such settings easy to do?

With a Ricoh, its just pushing 1 button each, even my CX6, a PxS, can do this.

Bart

We are startnig to see some information on these issues. A recent independent hands-on review indicates the menu/external control issue is fixed in the V3.

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=141294

 

[JacquesC]

Have another question;

how is the shot to shot time?

I mean not selecting a continuous shoot like 10 fps.

Really pressing the shutter button like 3 times.

Bart

The shot to shot time with the V1 is not very fast. Using it the way you described might be disappointing to you. What is even more irritating on the V1 is the forced image review between shots, that slows things down too. The forced image review has been sorted out with the V2, and presumably with the V3.

I cannot comment on shot-to-shot performance with the V2, simply because I don't know. Maybe some of the V2 shooters here can tell us.

 

[Jerry R]

To improve on the images (separation of subject and background and blurring of background) a much larger f stop would be required.

 

[havanna60]

These are great shots! My only criticism, and this doesn't have anything to do with you, is that I like Bokeh so the background to me is distracting. Aside from my preference I think you're pretty good.

Viet
http://www.ambercool.com

Sorry, I don't know: are you talking about my pictures?

André
http://a.barelier.free.fr/

Hi André, I love your photos immensely. I think what Viet meant is that he prefer the background way much more washed out, this is what he calls bokeh. Your photos as you wrote give a nice 3D look, the key character pops out from the background, but the background is recognizable. I love both kinds of photography. In your photos your portraits have context, these are perfect for memorabilia of a family friends event/party. What Viet would do, since he is an artist, is that he would blur out the background to a totally unrecodnizable extent.

For the sake of fun and technical experimenting would you, André, be so kind to take a photo of a face with your 30-110 where the background would be totally washed out, as much as V1's sensor size and the f3.5 - 5.6 aperture make possible, of course? It would be very interesting experiment.

Miki

 

[MattZisk]

Hi André, I love your photos immensely. I think what Viet meant is that he prefer the background way much more washed out, this is what he calls bokeh. Your photos as you wrote give a nice 3D look, the key character pops out from the background, but the background is recognizable. I love both kinds of photography. In your photos your portraits have context, these are perfect for memorabilia of a family friends event/party. What Viet would do, since he is an artist, is that he would blur out the background to a totally unrecodnizable extent.
For the sake of fun and technical experimenting would you, André, be so kind to take a photo of a face with your 30-110 where the background would be totally washed out, as much as V1's sensor size and the f3.5 - 5.6 aperture make possible, of course? It would be very interesting experiment.

Miki

I have played a bit with bokeh on the 30-110. Even at maximum aperture, unless the background is significantly behind the focal plane, there's not a lot to be accomplished at f/3.5. With the 32 f/1.2, you can get pretty good isolation up to about /1.8 for subjects not terribly separated from their backgrounds, but the 1" sensor is not a good choice for this task if you want complete blur for a nearby background

As many commentators on this forum have noted, extreme bokeh is a means to avoid needing to consider the background as part of the composition -- not a matter of art, but of convenience in a lot of cases. Artistry is possible when composing to include the background.

 

[ambercool]

These are great shots! My only criticism, and this doesn't have anything to do with you, is that I like Bokeh so the background to me is distracting. Aside from my preference I think you're pretty good.

Viet
http://www.ambercool.com

Sorry, I don't know: are you talking about my pictures?

André
http://a.barelier.free.fr/

Hi André, I love your photos immensely. I think what Viet meant is that he prefer the background way much more washed out, this is what he calls bokeh. Your photos as you wrote give a nice 3D look, the key character pops out from the background, but the background is recognizable. I love both kinds of photography. In your photos your portraits have context, these are perfect for memorabilia of a family friends event/party. What Viet would do, since he is an artist, is that he would blur out the background to a totally unrecodnizable extent.

For the sake of fun and technical experimenting would you, André, be so kind to take a photo of a face with your 30-110 where the background would be totally washed out, as much as V1's sensor size and the f3.5 - 5.6 aperture make possible, of course? It would be very interesting experiment.

Miki

That was a very considerate explanation. Thanks Miki.

 

[olyflyer]

To improve on the images (separation of subject and background and blurring of background) a much larger f stop would be required.

To get the SAME depth of field standing on the same spot you need a longer focal length (2.7 times longer) and you have to stop down 2.7 times.

Those images were taken with the following lens settings:

Image 1: 110mm f/5.6

Image 2: 83.2mm f/5

Image 3: 83.2mm f/5

Image 4: 61.6mm f/4.5

Image 5: 49.3mm f/4

To take identical images from the same spot with my D800 I need the 70-300GVR, which is a real budget lens, and would need to set the lens according to:

Image 1: 297mm f/15

Image 2: 224.6mm f/13.5

Image 3: 224.6mm f/13.5

Image 4: 166.3mm f/12

Image 5: 133.1mm f/11

The above will give you EXACTLY the same separation, background blur or DOF, call it whatever you like. The bokeh will of course be different, since bokeh is based the lens and depends on the quality of the lens, but the 70-300GVR has very similar bokeh compared to teh 30-110, in fact a little better in my opinion, based on my taste.

Now, of course, "to improve on the images" as you say it, i.e. to decrease the DOF, you must increase the aperture, but that is no issue at all, considering the above listed aperture settings for the D800/70-300 combo. It is obvious that the margins are quite huge, I can decrease the DOF by 2.7 without ANY serious effort, other than opening up the aperture of that cheap 70-300.

If you want to use the same lens with the same focal length, for example the 85/1.8, which is another cheap lens, things change a bit. Take the second image as example, it is taken with 83mm setting and that is pretty close to 85mm, so using the FT-1, an identical image could have been taken with the 85 set to f/5 from the same spot. Now, still using the exact same lens on the D800, to frame it equally we of course need to move closer, so let's assume that image 2 is taken from 5 meters distance originally, which means that with the D800 we need to be 1.85 meters from the subject. I hope we agree on this.

Lets move to DOF data, with the assumption that the subject distance is 5 meters in image 2, lens is now 85mm and the aperture is f/5, as in the original. This results in a total DOF of 0.38 meters. When using the D800 with the same lens I must move to 1.85 meters from the subject, but if I keep the same aperture I get 0.14 meter DOF which is considerably less than the 0,38 meters I had using the V1, and again, to get the same separation I must still stop down to f/13.5.

In short, saying that with a DSLR you need f/1.4 lenses is TOTALLY wrong. No matter what we do, the Nikon 1 is NOT the right system for narrow DOF, it is always easier to get narrow DOF with a DSLR, the larger the sensor the easier it is.