RAW and JPG files

Started Mar 17, 2014 | Discussions
Kim Letkeman
Kim Letkeman Forum Pro • Posts: 33,424
not much to work with ... but ...

That's rather a decent sensor, so you can get a reasonable postage stamp image with enough work ... but as others have said, it's a brutal exposure. One presumes that you have good exposures and that this was just an experiment ... EDIT: I see that this was just the first exposure after you had been at a sports event. Fair enough. By the way, this was all LR5 and the ORF.

brycesteiner wrote:

I did a food shoot not long ago and it went very well. This was my first test shots I was trying out at the restaurant. I have two files here. The picture of the nachos was very underexposed. I mainly am a JPG shooter, somtimes raw, but I thought this would be a good time to try out how good RAW really can pull detail out of severely underexposed images. I found out I'm not up to par on doing this.

This is the JPG +5.5 exposure compensation

RAW file +5.5 exposure and auto correct.

I got a lot more detail out of the jpg, especially out of the shadow areas, than I could out of the RAW file.

I guess I really don't know what I'm doing. RAW's are always supposed to have more information.

The original files are here if you want to give it a go and help me do better with RAW.

http://www.westbendnews.net/ABPhotography/galleries/rawtest/_BS34783.JPG

http://www.westbendnews.net/ABPhotography/galleries/rawtest/_BS34783.ORF

Thanks for your help.

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brycesteiner
OP brycesteiner Senior Member • Posts: 1,833
I am amazed at some of the results - and Adobe frustrations too.

Again, this was just a test with my RAW skills, and the pictures used are really good and the customer loved the food pictures. I'll see about uploading them a little later.

I am amazed at what many of you have come up with on a picture that was nearly black. I'm also very intrigued as to how anyone could think the sensor in m4/3 is lousy. I'm not sure if this is with the E-m1 or the E-M5 as I was using both.

My problem is still the same. I put in the same or similar settings that Bob said into Aperture and I am coming up with nothing like that. In fact, it's worse than what I uploaded before. I'm becoming convinced that Aperture's RAW developer is crap. I downloaded Olympus Preview and came up with much better results.

I'm now trying to download a trial of Lightroom and Adobe is making me sign in. To see if I get different results. I attempt to and it says I already have an account. I go sign in and it says I don't have an account. Another screen is telling me the password must be reset and an email is in my inbox. Well, I've been waiting for nearly an hour and none has been sent. I checked the spam folder too. Adobe must hate me......

So, While I am waiting for Adobe, what is the best RAW processor out there? PC or Mac is fine.

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Vlad S Veteran Member • Posts: 3,750
Re: I am amazed at some of the results - and Adobe frustrations too.

brycesteiner wrote:

My problem is still the same. I put in the same or similar settings that Bob said into Aperture and I am coming up with nothing like that. In fact, it's worse than what I uploaded before.

May be you should give a more detailed description of how you worked on the file, may be even with screenshots. That would help to identify any possible mistakes you are making. Aperture is not a crаррy converter, it may not be the best there is, but it's adequate for most purposes.

Vlad

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brycesteiner
OP brycesteiner Senior Member • Posts: 1,833
Here are some of the pictures

I do apologize for confusing people on what I was after.

Here are some of the pictures that were used. All but one are straight from the camera other than being resized. No retouching. I was very happy with the results. Something could probably have been better but the goal was to create appealing food for a deep fried restaurant and I think we did that.

Thanks for all your help too.

I just got Lightroom to start downloading. We'll see what happens.

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Guy Parsons
Guy Parsons Forum Pro • Posts: 27,165
Start the trials....

brycesteiner wrote:

So, While I am waiting for Adobe, what is the best RAW processor out there? PC or Mac is fine.

While on the free trial bandwagon, try Silkypix , weird but interesting, many features that others don't have. I had some colour problems with it, blues turning to purple.

My favourite has switched from that to AfterShot Pro as my one to use now, OK for E-M5 but so slow to update and E-M1 not there yet. It was Bibble and is exceptionally fast to convert, results seem quite accurate in colours etc. Has plug-ins for some film simulations.

Both have 30 day trials. Silkypix too expensive, AfterShot Pro silly cheap on Black Friday sales, version 2 looming, no idea when.

The AfterShot Pro link should flip to the country of enquiry, mine is always stuck with Australia, can't change to USA now like I used to be able to do.

Regards...... Guy

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brycesteiner
OP brycesteiner Senior Member • Posts: 1,833
Re: Trash both those files

Hi Bob,

I just used Lightroom to do it and it worked fine. It seems it's aperture and I was doing the right thing in Aperture. Lightroom I did it and it worked.

Here is what I just got from LR. This makes more sense now why so many people shoot in raw. you can save pictures that would otherwise be completely unusable.

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brycesteiner
OP brycesteiner Senior Member • Posts: 1,833
Re: I am amazed at some of the results - and Adobe frustrations too.

Vlad S wrote:

brycesteiner wrote:

My problem is still the same. I put in the same or similar settings that Bob said into Aperture and I am coming up with nothing like that. In fact, it's worse than what I uploaded before.

May be you should give a more detailed description of how you worked on the file, may be even with screenshots. That would help to identify any possible mistakes you are making. Aperture is not a crаррy converter, it may not be the best there is, but it's adequate for most purposes.

Vlad

Well first I imported the ORF file. Then used the setting exposure to go to +5. Above 2 it just appears to work like contrast instead of exposure.

I then lifted all the shadows to 100%.

I tried other things too, but nothing came out of the shadows like it did in LR. See here:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/53329727

Believe me, I love aperture, and if you can get this to work in there, please let me know what you did to make it work.

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diverroy
diverroy Contributing Member • Posts: 728
Re: I am amazed at some of the results - and Adobe frustrations too.

brycesteiner wrote:


So, While I am waiting for Adobe, what is the best RAW processor out there? PC or Mac is fine.

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The trouble with asking that question is that everyone will have their favourite.

I use Lightroom. It has a great RAW processor and also lets you catalogue your images as well.

Best thing to do is to try as many of the free trials you can and see what suits you best

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honeyiscool
honeyiscool Senior Member • Posts: 1,375
Re: Here are some of the pictures

brycesteiner wrote:

I do apologize for confusing people on what I was after.

Here are some of the pictures that were used. All but one are straight from the camera other than being resized. No retouching. I was very happy with the results. Something could probably have been better but the goal was to create appealing food for a deep fried restaurant and I think we did that.

Thanks for all your help too.

I just got Lightroom to start downloading. We'll see what happens.

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These are great but is there any real reason for the ISO 100?

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Olyroo
Olyroo Regular Member • Posts: 333
I don't know about you guys but
1

I'm really starting to get hungry

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brycesteiner
OP brycesteiner Senior Member • Posts: 1,833
Re: Here are some of the pictures

I generally like to shoot with the lowest ISO I can. I really didn't see a DR difference between 100 and 200, so I chose 100. What would you have done differently?

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brycesteiner
OP brycesteiner Senior Member • Posts: 1,833
Aperture can lift it up but noise is terrible.

I was able to get the exposure up by adjusting the black point, but the noise is out of control unlike LR.

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Guy Parsons
Guy Parsons Forum Pro • Posts: 27,165
Re: Trash both those files
1

brycesteiner wrote:

......... This makes more sense now why so many people shoot in raw. you can save pictures that would otherwise be completely unusable.

It's not about recovering disasters but using RAW to get better results than the camera jpeg can deliver.

That's why I always shoot RAW+jpeg, the instant 2 sec feedback of the jpeg lets me know if there's been a disaster so then I try again with proper camera settings.

Regards...... Guy

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brycesteiner
OP brycesteiner Senior Member • Posts: 1,833
Re: Trash both those files

Guy Parsons wrote:

brycesteiner wrote:

......... This makes more sense now why so many people shoot in raw. you can save pictures that would otherwise be completely unusable.

It's not about recovering disasters but using RAW to get better results than the camera jpeg can deliver.

That's why I always shoot RAW+jpeg, the instant 2 sec feedback of the jpeg lets me know if there's been a disaster so then I try again with proper camera settings.

Regards...... Guy

Why not just shoot RAW only if you are using JPG for an in-camera preview only since RAW displays just fine?

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bradevans Contributing Member • Posts: 791
Re: I am amazed at some of the results - and Adobe frustrations too.

brycesteiner wrote

My problem is still the same. I put in the same or similar settings that Bob said into Aperture and I am coming up with nothing like that. In fact, it's worse than what I uploaded before. I'm becoming convinced that Aperture's RAW developer is crap.

I'm no expert on Aperture - once i typed in higher exposures on that slider AND knocked the black point down it stared to look much more reasonable.

The blue channel histogram really wanted to stay at the left edge of the scale

This may be obvious, but i wanted to play with it.  I also have Aperture so i am interested in learning more PP specific to that.

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Guy Parsons
Guy Parsons Forum Pro • Posts: 27,165
Re: Trash both those files
2

brycesteiner wrote:

Why not just shoot RAW only if you are using JPG for an in-camera preview only since RAW displays just fine?

The RAW embedded jpeg (you never see the RAW itself) is of lower resolution than the usual in-camera jpeg, so if checking for critical focus/shake/blur then it needs to be the jpeg at something like 10x or 14x. That 's worse than pixel peeping I know, but it delivers.

Regards...... Guy

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tko Forum Pro • Posts: 11,978
here you go
3

RAW is almost undestuctable, even though it was 5-stops underexposed. Thirty seconds max.

Bob Carstens Contributing Member • Posts: 533
Re: Start the trials....

Guy Parsons wrote:

My favourite has switched from that to AfterShot Pro as my one to use now, OK for E-M5 but so slow to update and E-M1 not there yet. It was Bibble and is exceptionally fast to convert, results seem quite accurate in colours etc. Has plug-ins for some film simulations.

Regards...... Guy

Guy,

I probably asked you this before, is there any difference between using AfterShot Pro and PaintShop Pro for the RAW conversions?  Thanks

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Guy Parsons
Guy Parsons Forum Pro • Posts: 27,165
Re: Start the trials....

Bob Carstens wrote:

Guy Parsons wrote:

My favourite has switched from that to AfterShot Pro as my one to use now, OK for E-M5 but so slow to update and E-M1 not there yet. It was Bibble and is exceptionally fast to convert, results seem quite accurate in colours etc. Has plug-ins for some film simulations.

Regards...... Guy

Guy,

I probably asked you this before, is there any difference between using AfterShot Pro and PaintShop Pro for the RAW conversions? Thanks

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AfterShot Pro seems to do the better job with more controls available. PSPX6 seems good enough for everyday shots, PSPX5 was OK as well but I found PSPX4 terrible.

AfterShot Pro was $29.99 at some silly sale time so got it, but had to wait a looooong time until they updated for E-PL5/E-M5, the E-M10 and E-M1 may take another year the way their glacier gallops along.

Harder for me to drive than Silkypix but slowly getting the hang of it, seems to give more accurate colours than Silkypix. A dumb version of Noise Ninja is built in plus there's a RAW noise reduction as well, but I tend to tread lightly with noise reduction, hardly using it at all. Extremely quick at conversion, no chance to go get a coffee while it runs a batch.

I recently paid for my updates to Qimage Ultimate and that now seems to have developed into a near full blown printer, RAW converter, edit and image management program so need to also have a compare with what it can do, I like the improved sharpening method that Qimage uses.

Yesterday the local Sydney newspaper in their photography column was full of praise for DxO as being the best thing in the universe, maybe so but I don't need that level of perfection for my stuff. "It's a Miracle" on 9th March at this address  http://dpexpert.com.au/ for the source article.

Regards....... Guy

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diverroy
diverroy Contributing Member • Posts: 728
Re: here you go
1

It is normally better to use the lowest native ISO that you can to get the correct exposure.

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