How is the SL1 for Shooting Outdoor Sports?

I've been using the 450D/XSI with a 70-200 f4 L (non-IS) and an 85/1.8 to shoot my kids in their sports, ski racing and soccer.  Especially with ski racing, the keeper rate seems too low.  I use AI Servo with the lenses fairly wide open to get fast shutter speeds and some background blur.  But the camera just can't seem to keep up too often.

The local camera shop employee told me the 100D/SL1 had a far better/faster AF mechanism than my old XSI and would be more than adequate.  And after doing some research, it seems I'd need a 70D or 7D to do much better in that department.  Yet I don't want to lug a big expensive camera around, especially on the ski hill.  Not to mention this camera will also be a general use /travel camera, and I'm kind of a stickler for weight.  I hate lugging around a giant eyesore of a camera. (Would use kit lens on a trip.)  I suppose the 700D is a possible compromise if the AF speed is considerably better.

Anyhow, I'm wondering if anyone has experience with the SL1 shooting outdoor sports.  And if so, with which lenses?

Thanks!

PeterJon wrote:

The local camera shop employee told me the 100D/SL1 had a far better/faster AF mechanism than my old XSI and would be more than adequate.

the SL1 has a f/2.8 sensitive center focus point ... this may help focus faster when using the center focus point and f/2.8 lenses or wider ... the XSi makes no mention of the center focus point sensitivity ...

the SL1 also shoots at 4 fps versus the 3.5 fps of the XSi ... not that much of a difference ...

in live view, the SL1 focuses much faster than the XSi due to the newer phase-detect sensors ... might not matter since sport shooting is usually not done with live view ...

And after doing some research, it seems I'd need a 70D or 7D to do much better in that department.

yes .. 7 fps (70d) or 8 fps (7d)  is much more useful for sports ... as are the 19 focus points versus the 9 of the SL1 or the XSi ...

I suppose the 700D is a possible compromise if the AF speed is considerably better.

same 9 af points (and sensitivity) as the SL1, but 5 fps is a slight step up ... essentially same af speed ...

hope this helps ...

PeterJon wrote:

The local camera shop employee told me the 100D/SL1 had a far better/faster AF mechanism than my old XSI and would be more than adequate.

the SL1 has a f/2.8 sensitive center focus point ... this may help focus faster when using the center focus point and f/2.8 lenses or wider ... the XSi makes no mention of the center focus point sensitivity ...

the SL1 also shoots at 4 fps versus the 3.5 fps of the XSi ... not that much of a difference ...

in live view, the SL1 focuses much faster than the XSi due to the newer phase-detect sensors ... might not matter since sport shooting is usually not done with live view ...

And after doing some research, it seems I'd need a 70D or 7D to do much better in that department.

yes .. 7 fps (70d) or 8 fps (7d)  is much more useful for sports ... as are the 19 focus points versus the 9 of the SL1 or the XSi ...

I suppose the 700D is a possible compromise if the AF speed is considerably better.

same 9 af points (and sensitivity) as the SL1, but 5 fps is a slight step up ... essentially same af speed ...

hope this helps ...

FWIW, the 650D/700D have 9 cross-type AF points, the SL1 only has 1 (center).
--
"Amp up and amplify! Defy! I'm a brother with a furious mind!"

I have shot lots of Canon SLRs over the years, including both the 7D and the SL1.  Hands down, the 7D is the camera you want for the types of action photos you take.  I have many thousands of action shots with the 7D and it is fantastic.  My SL1 is the camera I use the most now days, mostly landscape shots when I go hiking and backpacking (which I do frequently when the weather is nice in the northwest.)  However, if I am shooting birds, sports, whales, you name it, I'll have my trusting 7D with me.  BTW, mye 7D is a refurb from the Canon store.  You can pick up a great 7D, with nice warranty, for much less than you can at any of the typical photo stores.  Sometimes Adorama and B&H have sales of th 7D refurbs...pick one up.  I know you'll love it.

Gary

confyushis wrote:

the XSi makes no mention of the center focus point sensitivity ...

Page 62 of the English instruction manual - "with a fast lens from f/1.0 to f/2.8, high-precision focusing takes effect with the center AF point."

PeterJon wrote:

But I'm more interested in how a camera tracks a moving object than how many shots it takes per second.

part of this depends on the user ... are you selecting auto focus point? manually selecting center focus point? ... cross type focus points focus better/faster than non-cross type (which is why the 70d and 7d may focus faster) ... the center focus point is typically more sensitive than the edges and may focus better/faster if you have the f/2.8 or wider lenses to take advantage of the sensitivity ...

the reason fps is mentioned is because phase-detect auto-focus speed is so similar from dslr to dslr (the "speed" might actually depend more on the lens focusing motor than the body's phase detect sensor) ... the increased fps will allow you to capture the photo you might have missed with the lower end camera body ...

otherwise, if you're using the center focus point and the same lens on all the models you have mentioned, phase-detect autofocus for sports probably won't be significantly better from one model to the other ...

PeterJon wrote:

Thanks for the speedy replies. Not surprised about the answers based on the specs.

But I'm more interested in how a camera tracks a moving object than how many shots it takes per second. Can't seem to find info on this. So I was wondering if anyone has real world experience using an SL1 for sports. And how it may compare to the XSI in that category.

As far as the 7D, I know it would be far superior for action, but I don't think I want to ski with such a massive camera. Nor do I want to travel with one.

Thanks again

I completely understand about the size and weight issues of the 7D. I purchased a used XTi/400D shortly after I upgraded from my 50D to the 7D, because in my opinion the 7D is just to big for an everyday camera.

You might consider the 60D as a good alternative, 18 megapixels, higher frame rate, deeper buffer, and better focus system than your 450D/XSi. Since the introduction of the 70D, you can find great deals on the 60D.

I would choose a 60D for your type of photography over the 700D/T5i.

edit: if your budget allows it, the 70D would be my first choice.

RedFox88 wrote:

confyushis wrote:

PeterJon wrote:

The local camera shop employee told me the 100D/SL1 had a far better/faster AF mechanism than my old XSI and would be more than adequate.

the SL1 has a f/2.8 sensitive center focus point ... this may help focus faster when using the center focus point and f/2.8 lenses or wider ... the XSi makes no mention of the center focus point sensitivity ...

Canon dSLR have a center cross type AF point, in the past they just didn't promote it. They started to to make their cameras sound better than the past ones.

And I doubt the SL1 autofocus is "far better" than the XSi focusing. That's what a salesman says to try and make a sale. It's probably marginally better at best. Neither camera is designed or good for ai-servo sports.

While I agree that the 450D/XSi also had a cross type center AF point including additional sensitivity to f/2.8.

I disagree that the 100D/SL1's AF would be only marginally better. Both cameras rely on their DIGIC processor to help process the AF tracking. The 450D/XSi uses a DIGIC III processor and the 100D/SL1 uses the DIGIC 5. The DIGIC 5 is about 10 times faster than the DIGIC III. This faster processor will result in significantly better AF tracking.

However, I agree that neither camera would be my first pick for a sports camera.

PeterJon wrote:

After reading these replies and getting a better understanding of how AF works, I'm leaning towards the 70D. But first I'll wait to see how the 750D's AF stacks up, since I'm in no rush.

The 70D would be an excellent choice for an all around camera, including sports.

He probably wasn't trying to be as harsh as you took it. I'm fairly new to photography, but I've seen a few times on this forum, and many times before on other "gear" type forums, of people who keep wanting to wait for the next best thing. However, there will always be the next best thing, and if you keep waiting for it, you'll never buy anything.

Granted, if you don't need anything until December, that you would be best off waiting. However, if that's the case, you should have waited to ask your question, as the answer of today could well be different than the answer you'll get come December.

TTMartin wrote:

I disagree that the 100D/SL1's AF would be only marginally better. Both cameras rely on their DIGIC processor to help process the AF tracking. The 450D/XSi uses a DIGIC III processor and the 100D/SL1 uses the DIGIC 5. The DIGIC 5 is about 10 times faster than the DIGIC III. This faster processor will result in significantly better AF tracking.

digic is primarily an image processor ... allowing for faster raw processing, image quality, etc.

http://www.learn.usa.canon.com/resources/articles/2012/digic_processors.shtml

so while a newer digic processor may mean better quality images and more fps, it is not directly related to autofocus except for face detection in compacts and, indirectly, the flagship 1dx ... from the article above ...

A DIGIC Processor works in tandem with a CMOS sensor—the CMOS sensor captures the light and converts the brightness at each pixel into an electronic signal; the DIGIC processor processes each separate signal and (for JPEG images) converts them into a finished, recognizable image.

while there are published values for performance of digic from one iteration to the next ... 6 times faster ... 17 times faster ... those values pertain to image quality and recording speed, not autofocus ... take a look at the advertised possibilities of the dual-digic 5+ in the 1dx ...

• Shoot full 14-bit color on every image
• Practically eliminate moiré when shooting movies
• Deliver HDMI OUT
• Support UDMA Mode 7 technology (faster CF card read/write performance)
• Perform in-camera RAW processing
• Real-time compensation for Chromatic Aberration in both still and motion images, with correction data for more than 30 lenses stored in the camera by default
• Increase the sensor’s sensitivity by approximately two stops over previous models, meaning higher ISOs with the lowest noise of any EOS digital camera. The standard maximum ISO changes from ISO 12,800 on the previous EOS-1D Mark IV and ISO 1600 on the 1Ds Mark III up to ISO 51,200 on the EOS-1D X — without any ISO expansion applied.
• Shoot with speeds of up to 12 fps (RAW + JPEG) and even 14 fps (Super High Speed Mode)
• Create in-camera multiple exposure images either from consecutive shots or from an existing RAW file and one or more additional exposures

not one of those relates to autofocus speed ... and if AF tracking were supposed 10 times faster than previous models, wouldn't that be a remarkable point to advertise? digic does not relate to viewfinder autofocus because the mirror is down and blocking the image sensor ...

technologies related to af tracking and faster algorithms have different names ... for the 1dx it's called eos itr ... in older cameras it was called isaps ... on the sl1 page it states:

"A proven AI Servo AF system achieves and maintains consistent focus with an exceptional degree of reliability."

in other words, the sl1 viewfinder af system has been used before in previous models ... while the sl1 may not compare to the 70d, i don't believe it is 10 times faster than the 450d ... or even 2 times faster ...

i have used my SL1 to shoot surfers and it has worked out well for me...my 7D is better but the SL1 works.

70-300 @ 300mm

150-500mm @ 500mm

confyushis wrote:

TTMartin wrote:

I disagree that the 100D/SL1's AF would be only marginally better. Both cameras rely on their DIGIC processor to help process the AF tracking. The 450D/XSi uses a DIGIC III processor and the 100D/SL1 uses the DIGIC 5. The DIGIC 5 is about 10 times faster than the DIGIC III. This faster processor will result in significantly better AF tracking.

digic is primarily an image processor ... allowing for faster raw processing, image quality, etc.

http://www.learn.usa.canon.com/resources/articles/2012/digic_processors.shtml

so while a newer digic processor may mean better quality images and more fps, it is not directly related to autofocus except for face detection in compacts and, indirectly, the flagship 1dx ... from the article above ...

A DIGIC Processor works in tandem with a CMOS sensor—the CMOS sensor captures the light and converts the brightness at each pixel into an electronic signal; the DIGIC processor processes each separate signal and (for JPEG images) converts them into a finished, recognizable image.

while there are published values for performance of digic from one iteration to the next ... 6 times faster ... 17 times faster ... those values pertain to image quality and recording speed, not autofocus ... take a look at the advertised possibilities of the dual-digic 5+ in the 1dx ...

• Shoot full 14-bit color on every image
• Practically eliminate moiré when shooting movies
• Deliver HDMI OUT
• Support UDMA Mode 7 technology (faster CF card read/write performance)
• Perform in-camera RAW processing
• Real-time compensation for Chromatic Aberration in both still and motion images, with correction data for more than 30 lenses stored in the camera by default
• Increase the sensor’s sensitivity by approximately two stops over previous models, meaning higher ISOs with the lowest noise of any EOS digital camera. The standard maximum ISO changes from ISO 12,800 on the previous EOS-1D Mark IV and ISO 1600 on the 1Ds Mark III up to ISO 51,200 on the EOS-1D X — without any ISO expansion applied.
• Shoot with speeds of up to 12 fps (RAW + JPEG) and even 14 fps (Super High Speed Mode)
• Create in-camera multiple exposure images either from consecutive shots or from an existing RAW file and one or more additional exposures

not one of those relates to autofocus speed ... and if AF tracking were supposed 10 times faster than previous models, wouldn't that be a remarkable point to advertise? digic does not relate to viewfinder autofocus because the mirror is down and blocking the image sensor ...

The 1DX uses a dedicated DIGIC 4 processor for metering and auto focus. So of course the dual DIGIC 5+ processors have nothing to do with auto focus.

The DIGIC is a LSI chips integrating many functions, including auto focus.

Cameras that don't have a dedicated processor for auto focus like the 1D X and the 7D use the DIGIC processor for AF processing.

You are also misinterpreting what I said. I didn't say the focus was faster. I said the increased processing power allows for better AF tracking.

technologies related to af tracking and faster algorithms have different names ... for the 1dx it's called eos itr ... in older cameras it was called isaps ... on the sl1 page it states:

"A proven AI Servo AF system achieves and maintains consistent focus with an exceptional degree of reliability."

in other words, the sl1 viewfinder af system has been used before in previous models ... while the sl1 may not compare to the 70d, i don't believe it is 10 times faster than the 450d ... or even 2 times faster ...

seeker moc wrote:

He probably wasn't trying to be as harsh as you took it. I'm fairly new to photography, but I've seen a few times on this forum, and many times before on other "gear" type forums, of people who keep wanting to wait for the next best thing. However, there will always be the next best thing, and if you keep waiting for it, you'll never buy anything.

Granted, if you don't need anything until December, that you would be best off waiting. However, if that's the case, you should have waited to ask your question, as the answer of today could well be different than the answer you'll get come December.

No, I think he was. It is common for him to insult people like this or worse. Many of his posts that I run into in various discussions are like this.