Sony A6000 already outdated by Nikon v3...........

Started Mar 13, 2014 | Discussions
Aspenz
Aspenz Contributing Member • Posts: 764
Re: a6000 or V3?

captura wrote:

IVN wrote:

GaryW wrote:

IVN wrote:

Rehabdoc wrote:

Sure the V3 focuses fast. With that tiny sensor the DOF is so deep that almost everything from 10 ft to infinity can be in focus at the same time.

With the 32mm f1.2 it has shallower DOF than A6000 with 50/1.8 OSS. Your point?

They are pretty close.

But to hit an aggressive f1.2, the lens seems to be $900, compared to the 50/1.8 at $300. That's a huge price difference.

Then there are the times when we don't want to be stuck with a longish prime but a more normal view....

The N1 AF is simply good, so stop making up stuff.

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Gary W.

You didn't answer my question. The price of the 32mm f1.2 is high, I agree, but that has nothing to do with N1's excellent AF. Huge DOF is not the reason N1 cameras have blazing fast and accurate focus, the 32mm also focuses extremely fast.

Saying that N1 cameras focus fast because of large DOF is simply wrong, and that was the point of my argument.

No but it certainly helps. Just as the smaller quarter-censored M43 cameras have always had fast AF, despite being CDAF-only.

Yeah it helps, but an out of focussed shot on ANY system is apparent. I can clearly see if a series of shots has that one or two that almost came into the sharpest point of focus. And that's where it's important I think, I remember some time ago people bragging on the N1 forums about how the EM-1 or EM-5 (can't remember) does focus plenty well, then proceeds to post an out of focussed photo where the background was the sharpest point of focus. Just because the subject is somewhat sharp does not mean it's properly in focus.

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Aspenz
Aspenz Contributing Member • Posts: 764
Re: Sony A6000 already outdated by Nikon v3...........

Helena777 wrote:

z36qc wrote:

This is the link
http://www.dpreview.com/news/2014/03/13/nikon-1-v3-offers-improved-af-system-and-faster-continuous-shooting

What's do you think of it?

I think that Sony have done a game-changer, achieving that a APS-C mirrorless have the same blazing fast AF than DLSR (in reality, MORE fast). Sony have achieved to give us, consumers, a valuable succesor to NEX 6-7, without the MAIN DRAWBACK of the mirrorless: slow AF. And that for +- 800$.

Still waits to seen by more users just how fast it is, any of the 1 cameras can already replace the job of a dslr for sporting event and the likes. It's about time anyway that you people get a decent AF.

Nikon has continued its "1" saga, and again, the price starts on a subrrealistic figure. A mediocre camera with some stellar features, with a price tag full of "badge stupidity", like Canon EOS-M had, like first "1" had.

¿Somebody said "sensor size"? They are in different leagues.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/helena123/sets

It may be priced slightly higher but I immediately pre-ordered on the day itself just on the fact quite nothing will get me the continued joy of using N1 cameras.

And as for sensor size, the N1 does a job decent enough for me, I mean, if people were all after the best high iso IQ for sensor size everyone should pick up a Fuji-X-- camera or a D4. There are many factors other than that and the N1 cameras are a very good balance of what a camera system should be.

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yomasa Regular Member • Posts: 394
Re: Sony A6000 already outdated by Nikon v3...........

Sony has no lens that will give me 850mm without adding adapters and big ass lenses

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Jorge Blanco

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EinsteinsGhost
EinsteinsGhost Forum Pro • Posts: 11,977
Re: Sony A6000 already outdated by Nikon v3...........

yomasa wrote:

Sony has no lens that will give me 850mm without adding adapters and big ass lenses

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Jorge Blanco

1550mm.

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EinsteinsGhost
EinsteinsGhost Forum Pro • Posts: 11,977
Re: Sony A6000 already outdated by Nikon v3...........

yomasa wrote:

Sony has no lens that will give me 850mm without adding adapters and big ass lenses

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Jorge Blanco

1550mm.

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captura Forum Pro • Posts: 24,830
Re: Sony A6000 already outdated by Nikon v3...........

yomasa wrote:

Sony has no lens that will give me 850mm without adding adapters and big ass lenses

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Jorge Blanco

Neither does the Nikon 1 V3. The fastest N1 lens only goes to 110mm which is like the NEX 55-210, or 110-420 mm equivalent 35 mm.terms.

You need the very expensive FT-1 adapter to use the big Nikon lenses.

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nzmacro
nzmacro Forum Pro • Posts: 15,209
Neither has the Nikon 1 series

yomasa wrote:

Sony has no lens that will give me 850mm without adding adapters and big ass lenses

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Jorge Blanco

I don't get it. Nikon has an 800 F/5.6, so does Canon, but you need an adaptor for the Nikon 1 series.

Or are you talking about the crop factor of the sensor, because that actually has nothing to do with focal length. A 300mm is a 300mm, unless you add a touch of magic to it somehow and it grows. Sensor crop factor can't physically grow a lens in focal length.

I always refer to my lenses for what they are even on APS-C, a 300 is a 300, the 500 is a 500 and the 800 is an 800. I can't change that no matter what sensor is stuck behind it. Its even written on the lens !!

All the best.

Danny.

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captura Forum Pro • Posts: 24,830
Re: Sony A6000 already outdated by Nikon v3...........

Aspenz wrote:

captura wrote:

IVN wrote:

captura wrote:

"But they do not claim the AF to be as fast as the A6000."

Sony says the focus takes 0.6 seconds in the A6000. Nikon has said nothing. Do they need to?

It's really meaningless. Unless you are a kiddie-type and you need to know that your Chevy is 1 second faster from 0 to 60 than your friend's Ford.

While I agree with others who say that V3 is waaay overpriced, the AF system on N1 cameras is the best in the MILC world. It is not only about speed, but also about flexibility. What's the point of A6000's fast AF-C, if you can't choose what to focus on? Usually the photog want's to determine exactly where to focus. You can't do that with the A6000, but you can with the V1/2/3, and there are plenty of AF points to choose from.3

You can spot-focus the Sony's then shoot 11 fps continuous with tracking. The V3 will do the same at 20 fps but yes, you can choose any one of the AF points; an alternative method. Or you can do a burst at 60 fps with the V3 but what good is that if the buffer remains small? the biggest difference between the 2 cameras may be the buffer size. The Sony is 20, what is the V3's?

The number of AF points are about the same.

I saee no reason to upgrade beyond my J1.

I think if I'm not wrong the V3 has a 40 buffer size for 20fps onwards and 60 buffer size for 6fps (mechanical shutter).

Thanks, I've been looking for that. Do you have any links?

Steve

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captura Forum Pro • Posts: 24,830
Re: Neither has the Nikon 1 series

nzmacro wrote:

yomasa wrote:

Sony has no lens that will give me 850mm without adding adapters and big ass lenses

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Jorge Blanco

I don't get it. Nikon has an 800 F/5.6, so does Canon, but you need an adaptor for the Nikon 1 series.

Or are you talking about the crop factor of the sensor, because that actually has nothing to do with focal length. A 300mm is a 300mm, unless you add a touch of magic to it somehow and it grows. Sensor crop factor can't physically grow a lens in focal length.

I always refer to my lenses for what they are even on APS-C, a 300 is a 300, the 500 is a 500 and the 800 is an 800. I can't change that no matter what sensor is stuck behind it. Its even written on the lens !!

All the best.

Danny.

Hi Danny,

The longest N1 lens is the 30-110, which is equivalent to the 55-210 in NEX terms. You would need that expensive FT-1 adapter to do more.

Steve

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nzmacro
nzmacro Forum Pro • Posts: 15,209
Re: Neither has the Nikon 1 series

captura wrote:

nzmacro wrote:

yomasa wrote:

Sony has no lens that will give me 850mm without adding adapters and big ass lenses

-- hide signature --

Jorge Blanco

I don't get it. Nikon has an 800 F/5.6, so does Canon, but you need an adaptor for the Nikon 1 series.

Or are you talking about the crop factor of the sensor, because that actually has nothing to do with focal length. A 300mm is a 300mm, unless you add a touch of magic to it somehow and it grows. Sensor crop factor can't physically grow a lens in focal length.

I always refer to my lenses for what they are even on APS-C, a 300 is a 300, the 500 is a 500 and the 800 is an 800. I can't change that no matter what sensor is stuck behind it. Its even written on the lens !!

All the best.

Danny.

Hi Danny,

The longest N1 lens is the 30-110, which is equivalent to the 55-210 in NEX terms. You would need that expensive FT-1 adapter to do more.

Steve

Yeah and they do have a nice long zoom focal range coming in a 300mm on the longest end. Note I said 300mm What the sensor does with it is up to the sensor

Still a nice small system with a great crop factor as you know Steve. That image the guy sent me in RAW is just amazing in the details department. I can see why nature lovers like that system a lot, the small sensor crop factor is remarkable while still being sharp for a 1" sensor. It does make sense in a way. I can get close to the details in that image he sent me of a Kingfisher, but man I have to work for it. Not many can get as close to a Kingfisher as I can. He nailed it !!

All the best SteveO and it is a good system with limits like every system. See ya.

Danny.

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Aspenz
Aspenz Contributing Member • Posts: 764
Re: Sony A6000 already outdated by Nikon v3...........

captura wrote:

Aspenz wrote:

I think if I'm not wrong the V3 has a 40 buffer size for 20fps onwards and 60 buffer size for 6fps (mechanical shutter).

Thanks, I've been looking for that. Do you have any links?

Steve

Sorry got that a bit wrong:

When the electronic shutter is used: High-speed continuous shooting at the world's fastest* rate of approximately 20 fps for capture of up to 40 shots in approximately two seconds

When the mechanical shutter is used: High-speed continuous shooting at approximately 6 fps for capture of up to 50 shots in approximately eight seconds

http://www.nikon.com/news/2014/0313_dslr_01.htm

Then again, the V series have always had generous buffers. The J and S series have noticeably shallower buffers.

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captura Forum Pro • Posts: 24,830
Re: Neither has the Nikon 1 series

nzmacro wrote:

captura wrote:

nzmacro wrote:

yomasa wrote:

Sony has no lens that will give me 850mm without adding adapters and big ass lenses

-- hide signature --

Jorge Blanco

I don't get it. Nikon has an 800 F/5.6, so does Canon, but you need an adaptor for the Nikon 1 series.

Or are you talking about the crop factor of the sensor, because that actually has nothing to do with focal length. A 300mm is a 300mm, unless you add a touch of magic to it somehow and it grows. Sensor crop factor can't physically grow a lens in focal length.

I always refer to my lenses for what they are even on APS-C, a 300 is a 300, the 500 is a 500 and the 800 is an 800. I can't change that no matter what sensor is stuck behind it. Its even written on the lens !!

All the best.

Danny.

Hi Danny,

The longest N1 lens is the 30-110, which is equivalent to the 55-210 in NEX terms. You would need that expensive FT-1 adapter to do more.

Steve

Yeah and they do have a nice long zoom focal range coming in a 300mm on the longest end. Note I said 300mm What the sensor does with it is up to the sensor

Still a nice small system with a great crop factor as you know Steve. That image the guy sent me in RAW is just amazing in the details department. I can see why nature lovers like that system a lot, the small sensor crop factor is remarkable while still being sharp for a 1" sensor. It does make sense in a way. I can get close to the details in that image he sent me of a Kingfisher, but man I have to work for it. Not many can get as close to a Kingfisher as I can. He nailed it !!

All the best SteveO and it is a good system with limits like every system. See ya.

Danny.

Thanks, Danny. Yeah that 1" sensor was pretty good notwithstanding it was only 12 then 14 mp. Made by Aptina, in some respects may be better than the Sony 1" sensor in the RX100? Now it's 18 mp in the V3. But a lot of the credit for the good performance and particularly the very intelligent decision-making in the camera is the dual-core processor which they use, apparently.

Cheers,

Steve

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(unknown member) Veteran Member • Posts: 6,192
APS-C can match any equivalent 1" longer focal length.

That is the whole issue in that you can always extract many different 1" sensor focal length equivalent views out of an aps-c sensor greater than the actual focal length whereas with the 1" the extract crop is all you have.

nzmacro wrote:

yomasa wrote:

Sony has no lens that will give me 850mm without adding adapters and big ass lenses

-- hide signature --

Jorge Blanco

I don't get it. Nikon has an 800 F/5.6, so does Canon, but you need an adaptor for the Nikon 1 series.

Or are you talking about the crop factor of the sensor, because that actually has nothing to do with focal length. A 300mm is a 300mm, unless you add a touch of magic to it somehow and it grows. Sensor crop factor can't physically grow a lens in focal length.

I always refer to my lenses for what they are even on APS-C, a 300 is a 300, the 500 is a 500 and the 800 is an 800. I can't change that no matter what sensor is stuck behind it. Its even written on the lens !!

All the best.

Danny.

GaryW Veteran Member • Posts: 8,617
Re: APS-C can match any equivalent 1" longer focal length.

Greynerd wrote:

That is the whole issue in that you can always extract many different 1" sensor focal length equivalent views out of an aps-c sensor greater than the actual focal length whereas with the 1" the extract crop is all you have.

But unless your 1" equivalent crop has 12, 14, or 18mp, the Nikons still have an advantage with their crop.

nzmacro wrote:

yomasa wrote:

Sony has no lens that will give me 850mm without adding adapters and big ass lenses

....Or are you talking about the crop factor of the sensor, because that actually has nothing to do with focal length. A 300mm is a 300mm, unless you add a touch of magic to it somehow and it grows. Sensor crop factor can't physically grow a lens in focal length.

I always refer to my lenses for what they are even on APS-C, a 300 is a 300, the 500 is a 500 and the 800 is an 800. I can't change that no matter what sensor is stuck behind it. Its even written on the lens !!

What matters at the end of the day is that while standing at a particular spot, I want a certain framing.  If my desired framing is equivalent to 850mm on full-frame, then it's true that that's going to be hard to come by natively  on the Nex (although you can adapt quite a bit from A-mount).  I assume that there must be a 300mm lens for the N1.

Anyway, for APS-C, I usually find 300mm (450mm "equiv.") to be enough, sometimes augmented with a teleconverter.  At 600mm (900mm equivalent!), it becomes almost impossible to hand-hold.

All the best.

Danny.

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Gary W.

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SQLGuy Veteran Member • Posts: 5,897
Re: APS-C can match any equivalent 1" longer focal length.

Nikon 1 does not yet have a native 300, but one is coming soon.

On that lens, it says that "Equiv. 135 189-810". So, 810, not 850. The 55-210 on APS-C would be "Equiv. 135 82-315".

So, if/when the 300mm is available on N1, you would have to crop to 9MP on an A6000 to get the same FOV. Still not bad.

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A7 with kit lens and a number of legacy lenses (mostly Canon FD)

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captura Forum Pro • Posts: 24,830
Re: APS-C can match any equivalent 1" longer focal length.

SQLGuy wrote:

Nikon 1 does not yet have a native 300, but one is coming soon.

On that lens, it says that "Equiv. 135 189-810". So, 810, not 850. The 55-210 on APS-C would be "Equiv. 135 82-315".

So, if/when the 300mm is available on N1, you would have to crop to 9MP on an A6000 to get the same FOV. Still not bad.

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A7 with kit lens and a number of legacy lenses (mostly Canon FD)

Likewise, on the DOF issue a couple of messages back; using the largest f1.2 Nikon 1 lens will provide subject isolation and nice bokeh equivalent to an APS-C like the A6000, with a normal lens.

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EinsteinsGhost
EinsteinsGhost Forum Pro • Posts: 11,977
Re: APS-C can match any equivalent 1" longer focal length.

SQLGuy wrote:

Nikon 1 does not yet have a native 300, but one is coming soon.

On that lens, it says that "Equiv. 135 189-810". So, 810, not 850. The 55-210 on APS-C would be "Equiv. 135 82-315".

So, if/when the 300mm is available on N1, you would have to crop to 9MP on an A6000 to get the same FOV. Still not bad.

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A7 with kit lens and a number of legacy lenses (mostly Canon FD)

Likewise, on the DOF issue a couple of messages back; using the largest f1.2 Nikon 1 lens will provide subject isolation and nice bokeh equivalent to an APS-C like the A6000, with a normal lens.

With that lens, you get 85mm f/3.2 FF equiv.

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IVN Senior Member • Posts: 1,890
Re: Sony A6000 already outdated by Nikon v3...........

captura wrote:

GaryW wrote:

ryan92084 wrote:

While I agree with others who say that V3 is waaay overpriced,

The problem here is that price matters.

the AF system on N1 cameras is the best in the MILC world. It is not only about speed, but also about flexibility. What's the point of A6000's fast AF-C, if you can't choose what to focus on? Usually the photog want's to determine exactly where to focus. You can't do that with the A6000, but you can with the V1/2/3, and there are plenty of AF points to choose from.

Now I've seen (you?) say this before I'm curious why. I freely admit to not being fully aware of the Nikon v1,2,3 but what focusing selection do you want that you can't get on the a6000? I've seen eye, face, selective spot (three sizes),

Are these available in AF-C? I think he was trying to suggest that you couldn't use these features and get fast response, but I think that's probably untrue in general. It may be true that these aren't available in AF-C specifically, but presumably AF-S will also be fast-focusing (and is the more typical setting).

AF-a, and the lock on where the shape adjusts. The only other option I'm aware of that a6000 doesn't have would be touch screen which may or may not be a limitation to some users.

There's also an Object Tracking mode in the Nex-6 -- did that carry over to the A6000? I agree, the A6000 is probably not as limited as IVN is suggesting.

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Gary W.

Maybe if somebody could give IVN a NEX-6 or an A6000 like they did to Manny, then he might change his mind.

No one needs to give me an A6000, I'm already seriously considering switching from N1 to A6000. While I find the AF, the speed and the small lenses of N1 very nice, I'm repulsed by Nikon's pricing. There is no way in hell the V3 is worth that much money.

The reason why I'm posting here, is because there are many people who have never used a N1 camera and have no clue about how good the AF and speed is. There is no need to lie about the strengths of N1 cameras, they already have enough weaknesses and limitations.

IVN Senior Member • Posts: 1,890
Re: a6000 or V3?

captura wrote:

IVN wrote:

GaryW wrote:

IVN wrote:

Rehabdoc wrote:

Sure the V3 focuses fast. With that tiny sensor the DOF is so deep that almost everything from 10 ft to infinity can be in focus at the same time.

With the 32mm f1.2 it has shallower DOF than A6000 with 50/1.8 OSS. Your point?

They are pretty close.

But to hit an aggressive f1.2, the lens seems to be $900, compared to the 50/1.8 at $300. That's a huge price difference.

Then there are the times when we don't want to be stuck with a longish prime but a more normal view....

The N1 AF is simply good, so stop making up stuff.

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Gary W.

You didn't answer my question. The price of the 32mm f1.2 is high, I agree, but that has nothing to do with N1's excellent AF. Huge DOF is not the reason N1 cameras have blazing fast and accurate focus, the 32mm also focuses extremely fast.

Saying that N1 cameras focus fast because of large DOF is simply wrong, and that was the point of my argument.

No but it certainly helps. Just as the smaller quarter-censored M43 cameras have always had fast AF, despite being CDAF-only.

Well it doesn't help, because N1 cameras with the 32mm mounted on them have faster AF speed than "NEX" cameras with the 50/1.8 OSS, WHILE having slightly thinner DOF. So how do you explain that?

Here's my take: N1 cameras have a better AF system!

IVN Senior Member • Posts: 1,890
Re: a6000 or V3?

captura wrote:

IVN wrote:

Rehabdoc wrote:

Sure the V3 focuses fast. With that tiny sensor the DOF is so deep that almost everything from 10 ft to infinity can be in focus at the same time.

With the 32mm f1.2 it has shallower DOF than A6000 with 50/1.8 OSS. Your point?

The N1 AF is simply good, so stop making up stuff.

With the big sensored camera, Sony has reached a remarkably fast accurate AF. The extended DOF when using a normal 10-30 or similar N1 lens, combined with the 1" sensor, makes it naturally easier to achieve fast AF and tracking.

What Sony has achieved with the A6000 is quite amazing, you must agree, considering it's larger APS-C sensor.

Is there a lens for the A6000 that has thinner DOF than the 32mm f1.2 for N1?

If N1 was only fast and accurate with the slow kit zooms, I would agree with you. But it's not. My V1 is even faster with my 18.5mm f/1.8, which has much shallower DOF than the 10-30, and guess what, the hit rate is insane. AF is similarly fast with the 32mm according to users, and when using that lens you get slightly shallower DOF than when using the 50/1.8 OSS on the A6000.

This means that the argument with deep DOF helping N1 cameras AF fast is nonsense.

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