Sony A7R: What options for 24mm?

Started Mar 12, 2014 | Discussions
Grafix Inredning Forum Member • Posts: 62
Re: Sony A7R: What options for 24mm?

Mel Snyder wrote:

Have you tried putting any wide angle Biogon on your A7?

Nope, but I might in a few days... I'll try to sell the E1018 and get a ZM25.

Luckily other have tried the ZM25, like Transcontinenta on Flickr (A7) and of course Ron Scheffler (A7r). Sure it vignettes a bit but smearing is pretty much under control by F5.6 and higher, here F8:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/2_kX9hQ60Go_KUTJzwCsrY8agOB68tBTNfjzaxf6w59lLzVd-Fm541KHDlUxi8F3fw=w1550-h1028

All pictures, also pictures taken with Leica M9/ZM25:

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B6WaWldUNZpkRUMxQjJiTWJyeXM&usp=sharing

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stevo23 Forum Pro • Posts: 18,662
Re: Sony A7R: What options for 24mm?

Grafix Inredning wrote:

Mel Snyder wrote:

I will wait till Sony introduces the reputed 16-35mm, which - if as good as I hope - could be welded to my A7

Yep, mine will too, if it's any good. I shoot mostly shop interiors using a tripod and 24-25mm is where I shoot most pictures. I've been looking for a good 24-25mm alternative for the A7, but there's no alternative that stands out.

Contax 25mm the same, Minolta Rokkor 24/2.8 around 300 euro (but seems to be more rare). The best price/performance seems to be canon Fd(n), 100-200 euro for the 24/2.8 but the excellent F2 version is hard to find and more expensive. Since I don't have to pay VAT, a NEW Zeiss Distagon ZF.2 25mm and Biogon ZM 25mm are "only" about 700 euro. I'd rather buy a new Zeiss for 700 euro with warranty than an old Contax/Leica of unknown quality.

FYI - the Biogons have been reported to be problematic - you want Distagons as in the ZF versions. I think there is also a Distagon 18mm ZM.

One of the reason that I sold the DSLR and bought the A7 was size, that's why I'm considering the Zeiss ZM Biogon 25/2.8 instead of the larger Distagon 25mm. Also, the Distagon is not one of Zeiss's better lenses but the Biogon is considered one of the best and probably easier to sell when something better emerges. If anyone have tried the Zeiss ZM 25/2,8 on A7/A7r, please share your experiences (and pics)!

Again, just a friendly warning, Biogons are showing the smearing and color issues that are problematic with some rangefinder lenses. I'm seeing better results from the Distagon 25, 21 and 18. The Distagon 18 ZM has some color shift that can be corrected.

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osv Veteran Member • Posts: 9,970
Re: Another Canon FDn 24mm f/2.8 Sample

Tim Devine wrote:

Sony a7R
Canon FDn 24mm f/2.8
1/200 @ f/11 (ISO 100)

Still amazes me...

-Tim

i'm equally amazed, and impressed, believe me! unfortunately not everyone out here understands... it's kinda sad, really... you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

my latest cheapo fdn adapter came in today, and finally i think that i'm starting to see the same flat fields with my fdn 24's that you are getting... it's been such a struggle, with all kinds of 24mm glass... the last little bit of extra infinity focus distance this new adapter allows appears to have made a significant difference.

-- hide signature --

dan

Tim Devine
Tim Devine Senior Member • Posts: 1,267
Re: Another Canon FDn 24mm f/2.8 Sample

My CIECIO7 adapter is pretty close to hard stop infinity, at least with this lens.  I've read that registration distance accuracy is very important with lenses that have floating elements.  AFAIK the FDn 24mm f/2.8 has floating elements....so that very well may be an issue when using an adapter that focuses past (or much past) infinity.

-Tim

osv wrote:

Tim Devine wrote:

Sony a7R
Canon FDn 24mm f/2.8
1/200 @ f/11 (ISO 100)

Still amazes me...

-Tim

i'm equally amazed, and impressed, believe me! unfortunately not everyone out here understands... it's kinda sad, really... you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

my latest cheapo fdn adapter came in today, and finally i think that i'm starting to see the same flat fields with my fdn 24's that you are getting... it's been such a struggle, with all kinds of 24mm glass... the last little bit of extra infinity focus distance this new adapter allows appears to have made a significant difference.

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captura Forum Pro • Posts: 25,246
Re: Sony A7R: What options for 24mm?

NomadMark wrote:

I'm shooting a Canon 24mm IS USM and it works spectacularly well. I got mine for a little over $400.

If I were to recomment an adapter, I would have to recommend the RJ Camera EF to FE mount. I've had too much trouble with Metabones. Cost is about $250 if I recall correctly, so less than the metabones adapter, and less than the novoflex M as well. And, you get AF, IS, and aperture control though the camera.

Combo is about the same size as the 55mm FE lens.

Funny thing is, I was trying to look up the RJ adapter on eBay and Amazon to-day, and couldn't find them anywhere. I want to adapt my EF40/2.8.

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captura Forum Pro • Posts: 25,246
Re: Sony A7R: What options for 24mm?

NomadMark wrote:

newyorkcity wrote:

What options are there for the A7R in the 24mm range that isnt affected by vignetting?

Here's a few ideas:

AF:

  • Sony Zeiss 24mm f/2 (I reckon this is one of the the best options if size/cost are not issues)
  • Minolta 24mm f/2.8
  • Sigma Super Wide II 24mm f/2.8 (cheap and looks quite decent)
  • A good copy of the Zeiss 24-70mm

MF:

  • Samyang 24mm f/1.4
  • Olympus OM 24mm f/2 or f/2.8 (quite small)
  • Nikon AIS 24mm f/2.8

Edit: and the Canon 24mm IS mentioned above is also an excellent idea, better than most if not all of mine

I wondered too about the zeiss 24 with Sony adapter. The canon combo is much cheaper, and has incredibly useful IS but the zeiss has fast AF! I wish I had one to test out...

Meanwhile...if money is no object...the 24mm ts-e would be my pick!

Why would you need an adapter?

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Lightshow
Lightshow Veteran Member • Posts: 6,478
Re: Sony A7R: What options for 24mm?

captura wrote:

NomadMark wrote:

newyorkcity wrote:

What options are there for the A7R in the 24mm range that isnt affected by vignetting?

Here's a few ideas:

AF:

  • Sony Zeiss 24mm f/2 (I reckon this is one of the the best options if size/cost are not issues)
  • Minolta 24mm f/2.8
  • Sigma Super Wide II 24mm f/2.8 (cheap and looks quite decent)
  • A good copy of the Zeiss 24-70mm

MF:

  • Samyang 24mm f/1.4
  • Olympus OM 24mm f/2 or f/2.8 (quite small)
  • Nikon AIS 24mm f/2.8

Edit: and the Canon 24mm IS mentioned above is also an excellent idea, better than most if not all of mine

I wondered too about the zeiss 24 with Sony adapter. The canon combo is much cheaper, and has incredibly useful IS but the zeiss has fast AF! I wish I had one to test out...

Meanwhile...if money is no object...the 24mm ts-e would be my pick!

Why would you need an adapter?

Sony Zeiss 24mm f/2in A mount from the list above, not the Emount 24/1.8

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captura Forum Pro • Posts: 25,246
Re: Sigma 24/2.8: "From f/11 you have very sharp corners.."

- others, too.

"Phillip Reeve A7r and manual lens test conclusions (Sigma, Phillip Reeve A7r and manual lens test conclusions (Sigma, Minolta MD/MC, Zeiss, Canon FD and Samyang)"

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/phillip-reeve-a7r-and-manual-lens-test-conclusions-sigma-minolta-mdmc-zeiss-canon-fd-and-samyang/

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Vanilla Manilla New Member • Posts: 10
Re: Sony A7R: What options for 24mm?

I also use the OM 24mm on my A7R. Very decent lens worth a try. You can grab it for relatively little on ebay.

Grafix Inredning Forum Member • Posts: 62
Re: Sony A7R: What options for 24mm?

stevo23 wrote:

FYI - the Biogons have been reported to be problematic - you want Distagons as in the ZF versions. I think there is also a Distagon 18mm ZM.

Yes i know, but some seems to work if you are prepared to stop down. I shoot interiors with a tripod and I'm usually at F8 or higher anyway.

Ron Scheffler has done som excellent tests with rangefinder lenses, the ZM 18mm, 21mm, 25 mm and many more. The Distagon 18mm needs to be stopped down too and is more expensive than the 25mm.

Ron Scheffler: Sony a7R vs. Leica M9 infinity test with 20+ Leica, Zeiss, Voigtlander rangefinder lenses.

Again, just a friendly warning, Biogons are showing the smearing and color issues that are problematic with some rangefinder lenses. I'm seeing better results from the Distagon 25, 21 and 18. The Distagon 18 ZM has some color shift that can be corrected.

From Ron's pictures, the ZM 25mm doesn't look very much worse than the ZM 18mm. Both smear in the corners wide open, acceptable (to me) at 5.6 and look quite good at F8 and above.

The distagon 25mm 2.8 is the same price as the Biogon 25mm, but the distagon is not the best Zeiss lens out there, it's needs to be stopped down to F8, even F11 to get sharp in the corners:

Distagon 25mm/2.8 @ F4.

The 25mm/F2.0 is a much better lens, but expensive and quite large on the A7

The Biogon seems like a small and "good enough" make shift lens until the SZ 16-35 (-ish) ultra wide zoom arrives, here is a few images from Transcontinenta on Flickr  (A7, pp with Lightroom) and Ron Scheffler  (A7r) taken with the Biogon 25mm.

Transcontinenta on Flickr, Biogon 25mm on Sony A7

Transcontinenta on Flickr, Biogon 25mm on Sony A7

Transcontinenta on Flickr, Biogon 25mm on Sony A7

Ron Scheffler - Biogon 25mm on Sony A7R

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osv Veteran Member • Posts: 9,970
Re: Sony A7R: What options for 24mm?

Grafix Inredning wrote:

Ron Scheffler - Biogon 25mm on Sony A7R

looks like a serious purple color cast on the left side?

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dan

Jefenator
Jefenator Senior Member • Posts: 2,830
Nikkor AI & W.Rokkor-X

Little late to the party here but the old Nikon & Minolta 24/2.8s are both decent.

The Minolta seems to have a tad more "pizazz" (personality, contrast, whatever you want to call it) and the center can be scary sharp. There is some field curvature (which can be used to advantage) and the corners stay slightly streaked, even when stopped down.

Minolta W.Rokkor-X 24mm 1:2.8 (probably f/8 here)

The Nikkor has tidier corners and the center while perhaps not quite as sharp is still very good - even on the old NEX-7 which was a very punishing test rig. The Nikkor has a certain flatness about it - just a little less contrast than the Rokkor.

On the [cropped] NEX-7 the SEL24 ran circles around both in terms of overall personality and usability. That lens of course doesn't pertain here, but I'll be very keen to try a new dedicated full-frame Zeiss prime in the 21-24mm range - whenever that finally happens. (I've got my fingers crossed for the first round of announcements this year, but I'm prepared to wait…)

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Grafix Inredning Forum Member • Posts: 62
Re: Sony A7R: What options for 24mm?

osv wrote:

Grafix Inredning wrote:

looks like a serious purple color cast on the left side?

It's actually on both sides and it's easy to correct with the Lightroom Flat Field plugin. Ron uses the A7R which have more problems with color cast (with wide rangefinder lenses) than A7.

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stevo23 Forum Pro • Posts: 18,662
Re: Sony A7R: What options for 24mm?

Grafix Inredning wrote:

stevo23 wrote:

FYI - the Biogons have been reported to be problematic - you want Distagons as in the ZF versions. I think there is also a Distagon 18mm ZM.

Yes i know, but some seems to work if you are prepared to stop down. I shoot interiors with a tripod and I'm usually at F8 or higher anyway.

Ron Scheffler has done som excellent tests with rangefinder lenses, the ZM 18mm, 21mm, 25 mm and many more. The Distagon 18mm needs to be stopped down too and is more expensive than the 25mm.

Ron Scheffler: Sony a7R vs. Leica M9 infinity test with 20+ Leica, Zeiss, Voigtlander rangefinder lenses.

Again, just a friendly warning, Biogons are showing the smearing and color issues that are problematic with some rangefinder lenses. I'm seeing better results from the Distagon 25, 21 and 18. The Distagon 18 ZM has some color shift that can be corrected.

From Ron's pictures, the ZM 25mm doesn't look very much worse than the ZM 18mm. Both smear in the corners wide open, acceptable (to me) at 5.6 and look quite good at F8 and above.

The distagon 25mm 2.8 is the same price as the Biogon 25mm, but the distagon is not the best Zeiss lens out there, it's needs to be stopped down to F8, even F11 to get sharp in the corners:

The 25mm biogon is not as bad as I would have thought. I still question it's value at this point for me - compared to a $136 Nikkor 24mm AIS 2.8. It's a matter of strategy and patience. If you already have the biogon, it's worthwhile. If not, the money can be saved toward a native mount version if/when it comes out.

And we hope that Sony adapts a version of their 24mm A-mount lens for the A7. The 24mm A mount distagon is perhaps perfection in this focal length. I would be very happy to see an f/2.8 FE version.

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Grafix Inredning Forum Member • Posts: 62
Re: Sony A7R: What options for 24mm?

stevo23 wrote:

The 25mm biogon is not as bad as I would have thought. I still question it's value at this point for me - compared to a $136 Nikkor 24mm AIS 2.8. It's a matter of strategy and patience. If you already have the biogon, it's worthwhile. If not, the money can be saved toward a native mount version if/when it comes out.

And we hope that Sony adapts a version of their 24mm A-mount lens for the A7. The 24mm A mount distagon is perhaps perfection in this focal length. I would be very happy to see an f/2.8 FE version.

Thank you, I appreciate your advice. If you have some pictures that you can upload, please do (or perhaps a Flickr page?). Both the good and the bad...

My problem is that I need a (20-)25mm lens NOW. Sonyalpharumors seems to believe that Sony will announce two new FE lenses at the same time as the A77 successor in early may. If so I guess that the lenses will be availible some time this summer. One of them will most likely be the ultra wide F4 zoom seen on the Sony FE lens roadmap.

Zeiss will release manual focusing Zeiss FE lenses. "Definitely to be announced at Photokina. Likely 'based' on the great Zeiss ZM series", writes Sonyalpharumors. (Photokina is mid sept) Probably availible some time this fall. But then I would likte to see some good reviews before ordering, so I guess in 6 months time, we'll ha a lot more options than today.

BTW, I found some images taken with ZM25/2.8 with both A7 and A7r on Flickr, the A7 pics looked much better, I'll try to link/upload them later.

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Astrophotographer 10 Forum Pro • Posts: 11,043
Re: Sony A7R: What options for 24mm?

How fast is the AF? The Metabones 111 adapter has very very slow AF. Mostly unusable unless its a static object.

Greg.

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stevo23 Forum Pro • Posts: 18,662
Re: Sony A7R: What options for 24mm?

Grafix Inredning wrote:

Mel Snyder wrote:

Have you tried putting any wide angle Biogon on your A7?

Nope, but I might in a few days... I'll try to sell the E1018 and get a ZM25.

Luckily other have tried the ZM25, like Transcontinenta on Flickr (A7) and of course Ron Scheffler (A7r). Sure it vignettes a bit but smearing is pretty much under control by F5.6 and higher, here F8:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/2_kX9hQ60Go_KUTJzwCsrY8agOB68tBTNfjzaxf6w59lLzVd-Fm541KHDlUxi8F3fw=w1550-h1028

All pictures, also pictures taken with Leica M9/ZM25:

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B6WaWldUNZpkRUMxQjJiTWJyeXM&usp=sharing

I don't recall that smearing and corner / edge performance was all that great by f5.6 - not thinking it was a stopping down issue. I'll have to look again.

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Grafix Inredning Forum Member • Posts: 62
Re: Sony A7R: What options for 24mm?

So, the pictures I talked about earlier, they are taken by Qianli Zhang, "ZhangQL" on Flickr and he tested a group of rangfinder lenses on A7 and A7r (preproduction models, I think).

Here are ZM25@F5.6, first on A7R and then A7:

A7R ZM25@5.6

A7 ZM25@5.6

The A7 Here's a quick and dirty comparison of the buildings on the far right side, A7 and A7r with ZM25@F8, no pp done by me:

A7R left, A7 right.

Better detail on the A7 because of more smearing/vignetteing/colorcast on A7r.

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