Who will abandon mirrorless first?

Started Mar 10, 2014 | Polls
MichaelKJ Veteran Member • Posts: 3,466
Re: Who will abandon mirrorless first?
1

Draek wrote:

Nikon. Yeah, yeah, "it seems successful enough to continue", but so does everything else on your list; I wouldn't be surprised if Sony's NEX outsold the Nikon 1 at 10 to 1, yet that's an option and the Nikon ain't. Plus, the fact that the FLC Sony RX100m2 greatly outperforms it for the same sensor size must hurt Nikon, if not now then certainly in the future. Though, I wouldn't be surprised if Nikon followed it with a different mirrorless format afterwards, perhaps with an APS-C sensor like the Coolpix A but the way I see it, there's few chances we'll be seeing new Nikon 1 models ten years from now.

2013 sales data for Japan.

Olympus 29.1%, Sony 26.4%, Panasonic 14.2%, Ricoh imaging 9.8%, 9.34% Nikon, Canon 9.25 percent

While Nikon may (and should) discontinue the 1 series, I don't think anyone will be surprised if they release a different mirrorless camera.

Now that Sony has discontinued the NEX, it will be interesting to see how well their new A mount cameras are received.

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sportyaccordy Forum Pro • Posts: 11,079
Re: Who will abandon mirrorless first?
1

MichaelKJ wrote:

Now that Sony has discontinued the NEX

Only in name. I can't believe this rumor persists.

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David Hull
David Hull Veteran Member • Posts: 6,023
Re: Who will abandon mirrorless first?

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

So at least we have proven one thing. You are no eyeinstyne.
--
Everything happens for a reason. #1 reason: poor planning
WSSA #44

When you learn to spell, you might figure out that one doesn't need to be Einstein to figure out that digital photography will only become more digital.

I think a better way to say it is that we can expect the mechanical stuff more and more be replaced by electronic equivelents -- where it makes sense. I think the devil is in the details when it comes to the "where it makes sense part". Right now, I suspect that the mechanical solution is still cheaper (particularly for the manufacturers that traditionally have built them that way). I think that it is a nobrainier to make the long term prediction that the flip up mirror will someday be a thing of the past but the question is when. It seems that there are issues of. cost, performance and perception that need to be addressed in the meantime.

I don't think cost is an issue. If anything, it would be cheaper approach to go mirrorless. However, at this time the mirrorless systems are new and the typical consumer largely driven by "tradition". Being new also increases development costs especially of support system (lenses) and need to advance the technology to do it differently. Even the m43 system is barely six years old. Sony's E-mount will turn four this summer.

I am not convinced.  Do you think it is cheaper to include a flip-up mirror, the little motor that drives it and the pentaprisim than the display, driver SoC etc. for the electronic approach?  I am guessing not, mechanical stuff is really cheap particularly when it has been optimized for years.

Another may be that the established players like Canon and Nikon are keeping up by flooding the market at low end, cheap kits to get people to buy into their system and hope they will hang onto it. It should be helping for now.

Do you think that CaNikon are loosing money on these?  If not, then the least expensive DSLR that doesn't use a penta-mirror is probably indicative of what it really costs to take the OVF approach in a camera.

A good counter move from mirrorless effort would be to take top down approach and that may be next.

I think that there is another aspect to it as well.  I would be willing to entertain a mirrorless approach but I would want it to mount and properly work with my Canon accessories (lenses, flashes, etc.).  At this point the only thing that will do that is the EOS-M (which ain't quite there yet).  Sony has an "adapeter" but it doesn't work the Canon glass as well as a Canon body does.  I suspect that there are quite a few who would be interested if the right criteria were satisfied.

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David Hull
David Hull Veteran Member • Posts: 6,023
Re: Panasonic and the electronic shutter

Lab D wrote:

David Hull wrote:

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

So at least we have proven one thing. You are no eyeinstyne.
--
Everything happens for a reason. #1 reason: poor planning
WSSA #44

When you learn to spell, you might figure out that one doesn't need to be Einstein to figure out that digital photography will only become more digital.

I think a better way to say it is that we can expect the mechanical stuff more and more be replaced by electronic equivelents -- where it makes sense. I think the devil is in the details when it comes to the "where it makes sense part". Right now, I suspect that the mechanical solution is still cheaper (particularly for the manufacturers that traditionally have built them that way). I think that it is a nobrainier to make the long term prediction that the flip up mirror will someday be a thing of the past but the question is when. It seems that there are issues of. cost, performance and perception that need to be addressed in the meantime.

Right now Panasonic is the closest to putting an end to the mirror. Their goal is the electronic shutter which has no moving parts, and many of their cameras offer it now. It has one issue though and that is it takes almost 1/10th of second to read the sensor which can cause a "rolling shutter" look. The new GH4 is much faster and should come close to eliminating this, and the future goal is a global shutter which doesn't read line by line from the sensor but rather reads the whole sensor at one time.

As I said the electronic shutter has no moving parts and so is more reliable and should last much longer. It is silent which means no more distractions in quiet environments. It means 20 to 50 (and above) frames per second shooting, which allows you nail those action shots of a soccer ball being compressed by a kick, or a boxer punch hitting a face, etc. It means you have “Active” shooting where a camera can be taking 20 frames per second BEFORE you press the shutter so any surprises will still be caught. And much more that will revolutionize photography.

That is a good point.  I had not thought of the electronic shutter aspect.  I think that there are P&S's that work that way, certainly the iPhone does.

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EinsteinsGhost
EinsteinsGhost Forum Pro • Posts: 11,977
Re: Who will abandon mirrorless first?

Draek wrote:

Nikon. Yeah, yeah, "it seems successful enough to continue", but so does everything else on your list; I wouldn't be surprised if Sony's NEX outsold the Nikon 1 at 10 to 1, yet that's an option and the Nikon ain't. Plus, the fact that the FLC Sony RX100m2 greatly outperforms it for the same sensor size must hurt Nikon, if not now then certainly in the future. Though, I wouldn't be surprised if Nikon followed it with a different mirrorless format afterwards, perhaps with an APS-C sensor like the Coolpix A but the way I see it, there's few chances we'll be seeing new Nikon 1 models ten years from now.

2013 sales data for Japan.

Olympus 29.1%, Sony 26.4%, Panasonic 14.2%, Ricoh imaging 9.8%, 9.34% Nikon, Canon 9.25 percent

While Nikon may (and should) discontinue the 1 series, I don't think anyone will be surprised if they release a different mirrorless camera.

Now that Sony has discontinued the NEX, it will be interesting to see how well their new A mount cameras are received.

NEX model name has been discontinued. Instead of Sony Alpha NEX-6, now the option is Sony Alpha 6000 (or simply Sony a6000).

Its the same line and has also been expanded into FF (Sony Alpha 7 and Alpha 7r).

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CAcreeks
OP CAcreeks Forum Pro • Posts: 12,343
Nikon 1 disappointing in Japan

MichaelKJ wrote:

2013 sales data for Japan.

Olympus 29.1%, Sony 26.4%, Panasonic 14.2%, Ricoh imaging 9.8%, 9.34% Nikon, Canon 9.25 percent

While Nikon may (and should) discontinue the 1 series...

I don't know if you can trust Japanese sales figures. The Nikon 1 might be more popular elsewhere, who knows. It is popular on Amazon because of clear-out prices on the J1. Of course it was overpriced at introduction, but clear-out prices represent unsold inventory.

So I guess you are right, Nikon may discontinue the 1 series. Sorry I didn't add it to my poll.

The waterproof AW1 had quality or design problems, and has all but disappeared from availability.

stevo23 Forum Pro • Posts: 18,180
Don't you mean, "who goes away first?"

CAcreeks wrote:

Open forum has another thread with similar title, mostly concerned with Sony and Fuji, but I'd like to see a count of those interested in voting. Canon and Nikon not included because the EOS-M seems already abandoned and Nikon 1 seems successful enough to continue. In alphabetic order:

So you realize all these companies are mirrorless? Doesn't this question really need to be, "who will close their doors first?" If any one of them "abandoned mirrorless", what cameras would they make?

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Lab D Senior Member • Posts: 6,938
Re: Panasonic and the electronic shutter

David Hull wrote:

Lab D wrote:

David Hull wrote:

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

So at least we have proven one thing. You are no eyeinstyne.
--
Everything happens for a reason. #1 reason: poor planning
WSSA #44

When you learn to spell, you might figure out that one doesn't need to be Einstein to figure out that digital photography will only become more digital.

I think a better way to say it is that we can expect the mechanical stuff more and more be replaced by electronic equivelents -- where it makes sense. I think the devil is in the details when it comes to the "where it makes sense part". Right now, I suspect that the mechanical solution is still cheaper (particularly for the manufacturers that traditionally have built them that way). I think that it is a nobrainier to make the long term prediction that the flip up mirror will someday be a thing of the past but the question is when. It seems that there are issues of. cost, performance and perception that need to be addressed in the meantime.

Right now Panasonic is the closest to putting an end to the mirror. Their goal is the electronic shutter which has no moving parts, and many of their cameras offer it now. It has one issue though and that is it takes almost 1/10th of second to read the sensor which can cause a "rolling shutter" look. The new GH4 is much faster and should come close to eliminating this, and the future goal is a global shutter which doesn't read line by line from the sensor but rather reads the whole sensor at one time.

As I said the electronic shutter has no moving parts and so is more reliable and should last much longer. It is silent which means no more distractions in quiet environments. It means 20 to 50 (and above) frames per second shooting, which allows you nail those action shots of a soccer ball being compressed by a kick, or a boxer punch hitting a face, etc. It means you have “Active” shooting where a camera can be taking 20 frames per second BEFORE you press the shutter so any surprises will still be caught. And much more that will revolutionize photography.

That is a good point.  I had not thought of the electronic shutter aspect.  I think that there are P&S's that work that way, certainly the iPhone does.

The new Galaxy phone uses 2 cameras to create a 3D view that can judge distance to subjects in the frame.   It can focus like PDAF and blur objects outside the focal plane with varying degrees depending on the distance from the focal plane.
Oh, and it shoots 4K video which is 8MP files 24-30 times a second.

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CAcreeks
OP CAcreeks Forum Pro • Posts: 12,343
Re: Don't you mean, "who goes away first?"

stevo23 wrote:

So you realize all these companies are mirrorless? Doesn't this question really need to be, "who will close their doors first?" If any one of them "abandoned mirrorless", what cameras would they make?

In the case of Pentax, DSLR.

But yes, I was asking which mount or vendor disappears first. If it is Panasonic you end up with unnecessary OIS on your lenses. If it is Olympus you had better buy OIS lenses. You can fill in the rest.

DT200 Contributing Member • Posts: 835
I know I abandoned Sony! :)
1

After years of SLTs and trying NEX cameras my family and I dumped Sony - and I think Sony will soon dump most Consumer Electronics too. Fuji and the micro four thirds group have a brighter future in my opinion - and they are bipolar and schizophrenic changing their minds every six months.

David Hull
David Hull Veteran Member • Posts: 6,023
Re: Panasonic and the electronic shutter

Lab D wrote:

David Hull wrote:

Lab D wrote:

David Hull wrote:

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

So at least we have proven one thing. You are no eyeinstyne.
--
Everything happens for a reason. #1 reason: poor planning
WSSA #44

When you learn to spell, you might figure out that one doesn't need to be Einstein to figure out that digital photography will only become more digital.

I think a better way to say it is that we can expect the mechanical stuff more and more be replaced by electronic equivelents -- where it makes sense. I think the devil is in the details when it comes to the "where it makes sense part". Right now, I suspect that the mechanical solution is still cheaper (particularly for the manufacturers that traditionally have built them that way). I think that it is a nobrainier to make the long term prediction that the flip up mirror will someday be a thing of the past but the question is when. It seems that there are issues of. cost, performance and perception that need to be addressed in the meantime.

Right now Panasonic is the closest to putting an end to the mirror. Their goal is the electronic shutter which has no moving parts, and many of their cameras offer it now. It has one issue though and that is it takes almost 1/10th of second to read the sensor which can cause a "rolling shutter" look. The new GH4 is much faster and should come close to eliminating this, and the future goal is a global shutter which doesn't read line by line from the sensor but rather reads the whole sensor at one time.

As I said the electronic shutter has no moving parts and so is more reliable and should last much longer. It is silent which means no more distractions in quiet environments. It means 20 to 50 (and above) frames per second shooting, which allows you nail those action shots of a soccer ball being compressed by a kick, or a boxer punch hitting a face, etc. It means you have “Active” shooting where a camera can be taking 20 frames per second BEFORE you press the shutter so any surprises will still be caught. And much more that will revolutionize photography.

That is a good point. I had not thought of the electronic shutter aspect. I think that there are P&S's that work that way, certainly the iPhone does.

The new Galaxy phone uses 2 cameras to create a 3D view that can judge distance to subjects in the frame. It can focus like PDAF and blur objects outside the focal plane with varying degrees depending on the distance from the focal plane.
Oh, and it shoots 4K video which is 8MP files 24-30 times a second.

So that's how they do that -- I watched their promo video and wondered how they did the DOF thing.

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DJF77
DJF77 Senior Member • Posts: 1,218
Re: I know I abandoned Sony! :)
1

The reason Canon have abandoned their own mirrorless (and I'm sure nikon will follow) is because they made such a poor product intentionally not wanting to cannibalise there DSLR market. Whilst company's like Fuji and Olympus and Sony etc innovate... They inevitably will solely be the future and Canon and Nikon will be playing serious catch up after realising the DSLR product of yesteryear is not the way forward.

P.s ... Die hard DSLR users, the death of this format will be great news for you. think of all the old equipment you'll be able to pick up from ebay for a pittance!

Martin.au
Martin.au Forum Pro • Posts: 12,916
Re: Who will abandon mirrorless first?
1

David Hull wrote:

Martin.au wrote:

David Hull wrote:

peevee1 wrote:

David Hull wrote:

peevee1 wrote:

David Hull wrote:

peevee1 wrote:

yardcoyote wrote:

It's all about the OVF for me. I haven't had a chance yet to try the latest greatest EVFs (I think those would be the ones in the new Olympus EM-10 and the Fuji XT 1),

E-M1, not non-existing "EM-10" or even E-M10.

but up to this point I can easily tell the difference between watching a small TV or screen and actually looking out at the real world through the big hole in the front.

And that is a good thing. The whole in the front cannot show you where you have overexposed or underexposed or botched ISO or WB, for example.

But the display on the back can -- so you have the best of both worlds in that regard.

Not really - the display on DSLRs has low resolution, invisible in bright light, and on most DSLRs does not even tilt. And most importantly, DSLRs cannot autofocus with any decent speed this way, while mirrorless (at least decent ones, not from Canon or Pentax) autofocus quickly and much more precisely than DSLRs with separate AF systems.

This is somehow supposed to be a rebuttal to my comment? Did you read it or did you just decide to do some editorializing? You commented that having an EVF should somehow save you from over exposed, under exposed, botched ISO or WB. The little LCD on the back of a DSLR does all this quite well.

It does not do it "quite well", because DSLR with the screen loses ability to autofocus "quite well".

Once again, you said "The whole [sic.] in the front cannot show you where you have overexposed or underexposed or botched ISO or WB, for example". Did I somehow miss where you said anything about "Autofocus"?

And if it is resolution that you are concerned about, the OVF blows away the EVF (any of them) in every way.

Except there is no point because OVF cannot do anything EVF can except showing framing - and unlike EVF, in most DSLRs even that is approximation, not 100%.

Once again, my comment was that the EVF cannot match the RESOLUTION of the OVF. I don't see how your reply has any relevance to my comment.

There are other things that the EVF can do that the OVF cannot but these particular ones would not be high on my list.

Everybody has their own priorities. But the fact is, DSLR user chimp all the time while mirrorless users don't, because there is no need.

OK, I'll bite -- if that is the case, then why do all of those mirrorless cameras have an LCD on the back side then.

There is play mode, there are settings, and many customers like to shoot like it is a P&S or smartphone.

Hmmm..... sounds sort of like "Chimping" to me... but then we know that mirrorless users never EVER do that, don't we ;-).

After all, you can't see it, it is lower resolution, etc. etc. etc. Given that most of these mirrorless cameras cost as much as the equivalent DSLR (if not more than), they could save some money (not to mention power).

They turn off power to the screen when you are using EVF.

Chimping commonly refers to the act of checking the shot immediately after taking it. In my experience this is commonly to check the exposure as you cannot nail an exposure using an OVF. Certainly when I was using a DSLR I'd chimp very regularly to check I hadn't blown the highlights.

With an EVF, you can nail the exposure prior to taking the shot, through a variety of methods. I'm a fan of live blinkies. Therefore, there's no need for checking exposure after the shot is taken.

If you think chimping is browsing through your photos, or using live view, or whatever, I suggest you update your photographic dictionary.

I think that perhaps you should consider updating yours. The term "chimping" comes from the act of going Oooo, Oooo, Oooo, (like the sound a chimpanzee makes) as you check the photo on the back of the camera (obviously impressed with it, I guess). Here you go:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=chimping

Urban Dictionary? Seriously?

Camera: "A little box that bestows a power unknown on its weilder, which gives them the apparent ability to control the facial expression and bodily pose of whomever they point the small box toward."

A most definitive source.

Anyway, you've now had it explained to you that what is being talked about is specifically the common act of checking a shot, typically for exposure, immediately after capture. I really don't care whether you don't like the term chimping being used to describe that practice, or wish to divert the subject to a semantic argument about the word.

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frank-in-toronto Senior Member • Posts: 1,034
Re: Who will abandon mirrorless first?

these thread are always fun.  the answer is abundantly clear.  manufacturers will abandon anything when they can no longer expect to make money off it.  as long as the public is buying, there will be mirrorless.  sooner or later, another variation will appear coaxing more money from buyers. this all has nothing to do with quality of image or usability of the device.

there is nothing wrong with having a mirror. there is nothing wrong with not having one.  why would anybody care what's INSIDE?  as long as the device suits their needs and budget?

personally, i hope all the mirrorless manufacturers continue.  they are making better product every year.  my second camera is mirrorless.  i use it when it's pros outweigh it's cons. i would be happy if the cons decrease.

ZX11
ZX11 Senior Member • Posts: 4,438
Re: I know I abandoned Sony! :)
1

DJF77 wrote:

P.s ... Die hard DSLR users, the death of this format will be great news for you. think of all the old equipment you'll be able to pick up from ebay for a pittance!

It will be a while before EVF screens get nice enough to replace the mirror.  In the mean time, I will just select the mirrorless mode on my T5i, anytime I need mirrorless functionality (want to use the rear display for framing).  They call it live view.  It is an option added to the T5i to meet mirrorless demands.

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David Hull
David Hull Veteran Member • Posts: 6,023
Re: Who will abandon mirrorless first?

Martin.au wrote:

David Hull wrote:

Martin.au wrote:

David Hull wrote:

peevee1 wrote:

David Hull wrote:

peevee1 wrote:

David Hull wrote:

peevee1 wrote:

yardcoyote wrote:

It's all about the OVF for me. I haven't had a chance yet to try the latest greatest EVFs (I think those would be the ones in the new Olympus EM-10 and the Fuji XT 1),

E-M1, not non-existing "EM-10" or even E-M10.

but up to this point I can easily tell the difference between watching a small TV or screen and actually looking out at the real world through the big hole in the front.

And that is a good thing. The whole in the front cannot show you where you have overexposed or underexposed or botched ISO or WB, for example.

But the display on the back can -- so you have the best of both worlds in that regard.

Not really - the display on DSLRs has low resolution, invisible in bright light, and on most DSLRs does not even tilt. And most importantly, DSLRs cannot autofocus with any decent speed this way, while mirrorless (at least decent ones, not from Canon or Pentax) autofocus quickly and much more precisely than DSLRs with separate AF systems.

This is somehow supposed to be a rebuttal to my comment? Did you read it or did you just decide to do some editorializing? You commented that having an EVF should somehow save you from over exposed, under exposed, botched ISO or WB. The little LCD on the back of a DSLR does all this quite well.

It does not do it "quite well", because DSLR with the screen loses ability to autofocus "quite well".

Once again, you said "The whole [sic.] in the front cannot show you where you have overexposed or underexposed or botched ISO or WB, for example". Did I somehow miss where you said anything about "Autofocus"?

And if it is resolution that you are concerned about, the OVF blows away the EVF (any of them) in every way.

Except there is no point because OVF cannot do anything EVF can except showing framing - and unlike EVF, in most DSLRs even that is approximation, not 100%.

Once again, my comment was that the EVF cannot match the RESOLUTION of the OVF. I don't see how your reply has any relevance to my comment.

There are other things that the EVF can do that the OVF cannot but these particular ones would not be high on my list.

Everybody has their own priorities. But the fact is, DSLR user chimp all the time while mirrorless users don't, because there is no need.

OK, I'll bite -- if that is the case, then why do all of those mirrorless cameras have an LCD on the back side then.

There is play mode, there are settings, and many customers like to shoot like it is a P&S or smartphone.

Hmmm..... sounds sort of like "Chimping" to me... but then we know that mirrorless users never EVER do that, don't we ;-).

After all, you can't see it, it is lower resolution, etc. etc. etc. Given that most of these mirrorless cameras cost as much as the equivalent DSLR (if not more than), they could save some money (not to mention power).

They turn off power to the screen when you are using EVF.

Chimping commonly refers to the act of checking the shot immediately after taking it. In my experience this is commonly to check the exposure as you cannot nail an exposure using an OVF. Certainly when I was using a DSLR I'd chimp very regularly to check I hadn't blown the highlights.

With an EVF, you can nail the exposure prior to taking the shot, through a variety of methods. I'm a fan of live blinkies. Therefore, there's no need for checking exposure after the shot is taken.

If you think chimping is browsing through your photos, or using live view, or whatever, I suggest you update your photographic dictionary.

I think that perhaps you should consider updating yours. The term "chimping" comes from the act of going Oooo, Oooo, Oooo, (like the sound a chimpanzee makes) as you check the photo on the back of the camera (obviously impressed with it, I guess). Here you go:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=chimping

Urban Dictionary? Seriously?

Camera: "A little box that bestows a power unknown on its weilder, which gives them the apparent ability to control the facial expression and bodily pose of whomever they point the small box toward."

A most definitive source.

Anyway, you've now had it explained to you that what is being talked about is specifically the common act of checking a shot, typically for exposure, immediately after capture. I really don't care whether you don't like the term chimping being used to describe that practice, or wish to divert the subject to a semantic argument about the word.

Actually, it was you who diverted the subject with the comment "If you think chimping is browsing through your photos... ...I suggest you update your photographic dictionary". All I did was provide two perfectly valid references pointing to what is generally the accepted definition.  Therefore there was no real need for me to do that, and... for that matter, really no need for your obnoxious comment either.

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Martin.au
Martin.au Forum Pro • Posts: 12,916
Re: Who will abandon mirrorless first?
1

David Hull wrote:

Actually, it was you who diverted the subject with the comment "If you think chimping is browsing through your photos... ...I suggest you update your photographic dictionary". All I did was provide two perfectly valid references pointing to what is generally the accepted definition. Therefore there was no real need for me to do that, and... for that matter, really no need for your obnoxious comment either.

I'm reasonably certain that you understand that the argument being made is that with an EVF the need to check photos - typically exposure, after a shot is diminished, thereby presenting an obvious advantage for mirrorless.

So, I think we're done.

If you wish to continue debating semantics, then I can also present a few sources supporting my description of "chimping".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimping

http://digital-photography-school.com/getting-the-chimp-off-your-back

http://www.sekonic.com/to-chimp-or-not-to-chimp.aspx

http://erickimphotography.com/blog/2011/10/24/10-reasons-why-you-should-never-chimp-while-shooting-street-photography/

And it definitely does not refer to the use of the LCD for taking photos, or changing settings.

There is play mode, there are settings, and many customers like to shoot like it is a P&S or smartphone.

Hmmm..... sounds sort of like "Chimping" to me... but then we know that mirrorless users never EVER do that, don't we ;-).

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pavi1 Veteran Member • Posts: 6,866
Re: I know I abandoned Sony! :)

DJF77 wrote:

P.s ... Die hard DSLR users, the death of this format will be great news for you. think of all the old equipment you'll be able to pick up from ebay for a pittance!

There is no such thing as a die hard DSLR user. Everyone who owns one would dump it in an instant if there was a mirror less that worked equally as well or better. None are even close at the moment. I would love to replace my D300S with a body weighing much less that did not require me to give up the things a mirror less can not do. One giant hurdle is how to make my view through the lens as clear and in focus as the optical through the lens. This is a very large hurdle for the 50% of the population that needs reading glasses to see the current EVIL.

pavi1 Veteran Member • Posts: 6,866
Re: Panasonic and the electronic shutter

David Hull wrote

That is a good point. I had not thought of the electronic shutter aspect. I think that there are P&S's that work that way, certainly the iPhone does.

D70 and D70S had electronic shutter past 1/250. You should be able to find why it was not so great in many situations by searching the D70 forum for blooming and electronic shutter.

Everything happens for a reason. #1 reason: poor planning
WSSA #44

EinsteinsGhost
EinsteinsGhost Forum Pro • Posts: 11,977
Re: Who will abandon mirrorless first?

David Hull wrote:

I am not convinced. Do you think it is cheaper to include a flip-up mirror, the little motor that drives it and the pentaprisim than the display, driver SoC etc. for the electronic approach? I am guessing not, mechanical stuff is really cheap particularly when it has been optimized for years.

Mechanical stuff will cost more as it also requires assembly. Removing those parts themselves is a cost saving.

Another may be that the established players like Canon and Nikon are keeping up by flooding the market at low end, cheap kits to get people to buy into their system and hope they will hang onto it. It should be helping for now.

Do you think that CaNikon are loosing money on these? If not, then the least expensive DSLR that doesn't use a penta-mirror is probably indicative of what it really costs to take the OVF approach in a camera.

Even if they don't lose or make money, they work as tools to get customer base.

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