Nikon Should launch great Camera(FF Small Body) before Fuji launch FF

Started Mar 9, 2014 | Discussions
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Maverick2007 New Member • Posts: 10
Nikon Should launch great Camera(FF Small Body) before Fuji launch FF

I think, in my opening Nikon should launch Good product that can have FF sensor and size equals to X-T1. I think Nikon will be in great trouble if Fuji launches FF camera.

As everyone knows Nikon DF is failed product, Nikon Please please think something great.

Looking at X-T1 sales, its almost every where Out of Stock.

Fujifilm X-T1 Nikon D600 Nikon D800 Nikon Df
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bensherman Regular Member • Posts: 484
Re: Nikon Should launch great Camera(FF Small Body) before Fuji launch FF
1

Maverick2007 wrote:

I think, in my opening Nikon should launch Good product that can have FF sensor and size equals to X-T1. I think Nikon will be in great trouble if Fuji launches FF camera.

As everyone knows Nikon DF is failed product, Nikon Please please think something great.

Looking at X-T1 sales, its almost every where Out of Stock.

NIKON WILL SHOOT ITSELF IN THE FOOT IF THEY DO SO....

jfriend00 Forum Pro • Posts: 11,309
Re: Nikon Should launch great Camera(FF Small Body) before Fuji launch FF
1

You seem to forget that it will take a long time for Fuji to have a competitive FF lens lineup. I have no idea if Fuji will bring out FF cameras at some point - I personally hope they keep perfecting the APS-C lineup (bodies and lenses) for awhile longer before getting diluted by a FF effort, but Nikon need be in no hurry to worry about that because it will be a long time before a Fuji FF + lens lineup are competitive together and Nikon would have plenty of time to respond if Fuji did something interesting.

The more interesting question is whether a smaller FF product (like the size of Sony 7r) is something that would sell a lot for Nikon and what tech should Nikon use to deliver it (dSLR vs. mirrorless, F-mount vs. new lens mount, etc...).

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Maverick2007 OP New Member • Posts: 10
Re: Nikon Should launch great Camera(FF Small Body) before Fuji launch FF

jfriend00 wrote:

You seem to forget that it will take a long time for Fuji to have a competitive FF lens lineup. I have no idea if Fuji will bring out FF cameras at some point - I personally hope they keep perfecting the APS-C lineup (bodies and lenses) for awhile longer before getting diluted by a FF effort, but Nikon need be in no hurry to worry about that because it will be a long time before a Fuji FF + lens lineup are competitive together and Nikon would have plenty of time to respond if Fuji did something interesting.

The more interesting question is whether a smaller FF product (like the size of Sony 7r) is something that would sell a lot for Nikon and what tech should Nikon use to deliver it (dSLR vs. mirrorless, F-mount vs. new lens mount, etc...).

-- hide signature --

Dear John,

Somewhat I disagree with your comments. Fuji came from nowhere to X100 and X100S and then X-T1. I think Nikon is underestimating Fuji here. Although Fuji launched before some SLRs but they were not that popular but looking at X-T1, certainly Nikon should be worried as Fuji is eating up APS-C camera sale.

Looks at X-T1, almost everywhere its Out of Stock.

Maverick2007 OP New Member • Posts: 10
Re: Nikon Should launch great Camera(FF Small Body) before Fuji launch FF

bensherman wrote:

Maverick2007 wrote:

I think, in my opening Nikon should launch Good product that can have FF sensor and size equals to X-T1. I think Nikon will be in great trouble if Fuji launches FF camera.

As everyone knows Nikon DF is failed product, Nikon Please please think something great.

Looking at X-T1 sales, its almost every where Out of Stock.

NIKON WILL SHOOT ITSELF IN THE FOOT IF THEY DO SO....

WHY SO? I think there is great market for portable cameras.

mais51
mais51 Senior Member • Posts: 1,713
Re: Nikon Should launch great Camera(FF Small Body) before Fuji launch FF

Maverick2007 wrote:

I think, in my opening Nikon should launch Good product that can have FF sensor and size equals to X-T1. I think Nikon will be in great trouble if Fuji launches FF camera.

As everyone knows Nikon DF is failed product, Nikon Please please think something great.

It is a big assumption on your part - given that the price of the Df is more than a D800 where I live, Nikon has no trouble shifting it. Beside Df is always a low volume special camera design for Nikonian enthusiasts - normal shooters need not apply.

On the subject of Fuji with FX - unless they build their camera to use Nikon or Canon lenses they will always be a niches market camera maker -

The following report claims only Canon, Nikon and Sony would survive the Smartphone revolution

http://petapixel.com/2013/12/30/report-claims-nikon-canon-sony-will-survive-smartphone-revolution/

Looking at X-T1 sales, its almost every where Out of Stock.

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RhysM Senior Member • Posts: 2,211
Re: Nikon Should launch great Camera(FF Small Body) before Fuji launch FF

If Fuji put their mind to it they could have a decent FF lens line-up along with a body in less that 24 months. Fuji could be a force to be reckoned with if they carry on the way they're going.

They could do to Nikon/Canon what Apple did to Nokia.

jfriend00 Forum Pro • Posts: 11,309
Re: Nikon Should launch great Camera(FF Small Body) before Fuji launch FF
1

Maverick2007 wrote:

jfriend00 wrote:

You seem to forget that it will take a long time for Fuji to have a competitive FF lens lineup. I have no idea if Fuji will bring out FF cameras at some point - I personally hope they keep perfecting the APS-C lineup (bodies and lenses) for awhile longer before getting diluted by a FF effort, but Nikon need be in no hurry to worry about that because it will be a long time before a Fuji FF + lens lineup are competitive together and Nikon would have plenty of time to respond if Fuji did something interesting.

The more interesting question is whether a smaller FF product (like the size of Sony 7r) is something that would sell a lot for Nikon and what tech should Nikon use to deliver it (dSLR vs. mirrorless, F-mount vs. new lens mount, etc...).

-- hide signature --

Dear John,

Somewhat I disagree with your comments. Fuji came from nowhere to X100 and X100S and then X-T1. I think Nikon is underestimating Fuji here. Although Fuji launched before some SLRs but they were not that popular but looking at X-T1, certainly Nikon should be worried as Fuji is eating up APS-C camera sale.

Looks at X-T1, almost everywhere its Out of Stock.

X100 and X100s are fixed lens cameras. Is the Sony RX1 killing Nikon FF sales? I don't think so, so the fixed lens cameras don't seem to be hurting Nikon.

When a camera is out of stock that ONLY means that it appears to be selling more than the company is making. There can be lots of reasons for that. It could be that Fuji simply didn't make very many of them initially or is having manufacturing problems or sent most of their initial inventory to other countries. It does NOT necessarily mean that the camera is selling in a volume that is anything more than a blip to Nikon. You really don't know that info unless you have actual sales numbers for both the XT-1 and relevant Nikon cameras.

The day Fuji comes out with a FF interchangeable lens body, it will have no more impact than the Sony 7 and 7r (actually probably less of an impact because Sony has a lot more distribution than Fuji) and the Sony doesn't seem to be killing Nikon in any way.

So, I think you jumping to a conclusion that Fuji would put the hurt on Nikon the moment they came out with a FF interchangeable lens camera is a bit of an exaggeration. If they make very good cameras, they could have an impact over time as they also build a lens lineup (e.g. 2-3 after launch). Nikon would have plenty of time to respond if they deemed it important to respond. That is the power of having such a big FF lens lineup both available in the stores and already owned by so many photographers.

All that said, I am impressed with what Fuji is doing in the APS-C market (I own a Fuji X-E1) and I do think it is probably starting to impact Nikon's APS-C sales or potential sales (just a guess, I don't have sales numbers for either one). But, keep in mind that is now several years after they started their X series APS-C effort and lens lineup. This didn't happen overnight with the introduction of a single product and a single lens.

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Nikonparrothead Veteran Member • Posts: 4,669
Re: Nikon Should launch great Camera(FF Small Body) before Fuji launch FF
1

Maverick2007 wrote:

I think, in my opening Nikon should launch Good product that can have FF sensor and size equals to X-T1. I think Nikon will be in great trouble if Fuji launches FF camera.

As everyone knows Nikon DF is failed product, Nikon Please please think something great.

Looking at X-T1 sales, its almost every where Out of Stock.

And if Fuji goes FF, here's hoping they come out with more lenses at the start of production than Sony did with its FF product.

Ironically both Fuji's DX product and Sony's DX mirrorless thrive in part because of the ability to use alternate lenses (hey, I own an M 4/3 camera and adapters to play that game too).

The DF is far from a "failed product," mine works wonderfully, so no failure there. So I guess I'm not "everyone."

I suspect in the end Nikon will disappoint you -- perhaps Nikon's definition of "something great" is different than yours. So jump off the bandwagon and embrace Fuji or Canon or Pentax (now that's a camera company that should be getting more "love" than it does -- inexpensive water resistant DSLRs that one can readily operate on AA-sized batteries in a pinch.

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Nikonparrothead Veteran Member • Posts: 4,669
Re: Nikon Should launch great Camera(FF Small Body) before Fuji launch FF

RhysM wrote:

If Fuji put their mind to it they could have a decent FF lens line-up along with a body in less that 24 months. Fuji could be a force to be reckoned with if they carry on the way they're going.

They could do to Nikon/Canon what Apple did to Nokia.

Doubtful but it is just an opinion after all and you're entitled to yours.

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Thoughts R Us Senior Member • Posts: 1,405
Re: Lens Size Issue with FF Mirrorless
1

I know it seems like everyone wants a FF mirrorless for size and weight convenience...but while the body can shrink, the problem is the lenses.

First off, I think Nikon would want to leverage its F mount and so any mirrorless would use the F mount.  But many, if not most F mount lenses are so large that they make the smaller body a moot point.

Even if Nikon designed a new lens mount system, the problem would still exist: AF FF lenses tend to be larger, and so you face a tradeoff. It's the same problem Sony is having now with their FF mirrorless. Either the lenses are too big to be practical on a small body, or else the lens is slow, or else you don't include AF.  There is no such thing as a free lunch.

So right now the problem exists in that how do you create a practical sized full lens system for a FF mirrorless body?

As for the Df, no one knows how much it has sold, but it clearly has not been a failure.

As for Fuji, their XT1 does indeed seem like a sweet camera, and they have built up a good lens system.  I don't think Fuji is going to do FF anytime in the future for the same reasons listed above.

Felts Contributing Member • Posts: 566
Re: Nikon Should launch great Camera(FF Small Body) before Fuji launch FF
1

Maverick2007 wrote:

I think, in my opening Nikon should launch Good product that can have FF sensor and size equals to X-T1. I think Nikon will be in great trouble if Fuji launches FF camera.

As everyone knows Nikon DF is failed product, Nikon Please please think something great.

Looking at X-T1 sales, its almost every where Out of Stock.

Thank you for enlightening me with your wisdom. Now that I realise that my Df is a failure, I must sell it immediately (at a loss obviously) and wait three years for the FF Fuji to be released.

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Nexu1 Senior Member • Posts: 2,611
Re: Nikon Should launch great Camera(FF Small Body) before Fuji launch FF

Maverick2007 wrote:

I think, in my opening Nikon should launch Good product that can have FF sensor and size equals to X-T1. I think Nikon will be in great trouble if Fuji launches FF camera.

As everyone knows Nikon DF is failed product, Nikon Please please think something great.

Looking at X-T1 sales, its almost every where Out of Stock.

Or... after roughly a 5 year run, and nothing but massive losses, Fuji looks at their X series line and just shuts it down. Cuts their losses.  Leaves their customers high and dry like Sony and Olympus have done in the not so distant past.  They aren't even registering a blip on the sales sheets yet. You'd think Fuji was up to 10 or 30% market share of mirrorless but they aren't even 1%.

http://www.fujirumors.com/best-selling-cameras-in-japan-in-2013-where-is-fujifilm-analyst-forecast-only-canikon-and-sony-will-survive/

As others have mentioned, the lenses are the key.

IMO Fuji made a potentially fatal mistake by going at APS-C alone. One of the reasons Olympus & Panasonic have been able to survive with MFT is that they essentially went into it together. Fuji is alone. With hardly any lenses. And poor sales. And running in the red (last I checked). Mirrorless in general has stopped growing and is regressing faster than DSLR's are regressing: http://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2014/02/06/cipa-2013-report-shows-first-time-decline-in-interchangeable-lens-camera-sa

user_name Veteran Member • Posts: 3,134
Oh, please! (nt)

No text.

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Robert Daley Senior Member • Posts: 1,339
Pentax will likely manufacture...

...the next competent, compact FF camera. (...at least we over in the Pentax forum hope so. We're long overdue a FF body.)

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travelinbri_74 Senior Member • Posts: 2,322
Re: Nikon Should launch great Camera(FF Small Body) before Fuji launch FF

In general I agree, but its not 'Nikon does this or else..." it's just where many of our own interets are. In my opinion, what needs to happen is either the Sony A7R needs to fix its issues within a year (poor JPEGs and slow AF) while getting a more robust lens lineup, or Pentax (Ricoh) needs to offer a FF DSLR with one of their always excellent small but robust bodies, Canon or Nikon need to enter the small FF arena with either a mirrorless high end model or a small but tough full featured DSLR (in my opinion the DF with a better AF unit could have been much more attractive), or finally Fuji or Olympus - who in my opinion put out the two most attractive cameras recently excluding sensor size - need to put out a FF camera with the features of the XT1 or OMD1. One or more of the above should happen, looking forward to Photokina...

-TBri

jfriend00 Forum Pro • Posts: 11,309
Re: Nikon Should launch great Camera(FF Small Body) before Fuji launch FF

Nexu1 wrote:

IMO Fuji made a potentially fatal mistake by going at APS-C alone. One of the reasons Olympus & Panasonic have been able to survive with MFT is that they essentially went into it together. Fuji is alone. With hardly any lenses. And poor sales. And running in the red (last I checked). Mirrorless in general has stopped growing and is regressing faster than DSLR's are regressing: http://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2014/02/06/cipa-2013-report-shows-first-time-decline-in-interchangeable-lens-camera-sa

That's your opinion.  I rather like Fuji's lens lineup.  For the majority of the population, Fuji has a pretty good set of lenses and the XF lenses are particularly good quality.  In fact, Fuji has more lenses optimized for the AFS-C sensor size than Nikon does and I find the XF 18-55 to be substantially better IQ than my Nikkor 17-55 f/2.8 and a ton smaller.  Here's the Fuji lineup as of this moment:

  • Zeiss 12 f/1.8
  • Zeiss 32 f/1.8
  • Fuji XF 14 f/2.8
  • Fuji XF 18 f/2
  • Fuji XF 23 f/1.4
  • Fuji XF 27 f/2.8 (pancake)
  • Fuji XF 56 f/1.2
  • Fuji XF 60 f/2.4 (macro)
  • Fuji XF 10-24 f/4
  • Fuji XF 18-55 f/2.8-4
  • Fuji XF 55-200 f/3.5-4.8
  • Fuji XC 16-50 f/3.5-5.6
  • Fuji XC 50-230 f/4.5-6.7

On the published roadmap for later this year is another fast wide angle prime, a 50-140 f/2.8, 16-55 f/2.8 and 18-135.

The major omission is obviously long glass (300mm, 400mm, 600m).  So, aside from the long primes, this is a pretty nice set of lenses to select from and pretty much all created in the last 2 years. That's one cranking development and manufacturing team.

What would say are the major missing lenses in the Fuji lineup that are preventing lots of people from buying Fuji?

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shaunly Contributing Member • Posts: 541
Re: Nikon Should launch great Camera(FF Small Body) before Fuji launch FF

jfriend00 wrote:

Nexu1 wrote:

IMO Fuji made a potentially fatal mistake by going at APS-C alone. One of the reasons Olympus & Panasonic have been able to survive with MFT is that they essentially went into it together. Fuji is alone. With hardly any lenses. And poor sales. And running in the red (last I checked). Mirrorless in general has stopped growing and is regressing faster than DSLR's are regressing: http://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2014/02/06/cipa-2013-report-shows-first-time-decline-in-interchangeable-lens-camera-sa

That's your opinion. I rather like Fuji's lens lineup. For the majority of the population, Fuji has a pretty good set of lenses and the XF lenses are particularly good quality. In fact, Fuji has more lenses optimized for the AFS-C sensor size than Nikon does and I find the XF 18-55 to be substantially better IQ than my Nikkor 17-55 f/2.8 and a ton smaller. Here's the Fuji lineup as of this moment:

  • Zeiss 12 f/1.8
  • Zeiss 32 f/1.8
  • Fuji XF 14 f/2.8
  • Fuji XF 18 f/2
  • Fuji XF 23 f/1.4
  • Fuji XF 27 f/2.8 (pancake)
  • Fuji XF 56 f/1.2
  • Fuji XF 60 f/2.4 (macro)
  • Fuji XF 10-24 f/4
  • Fuji XF 18-55 f/2.8-4
  • Fuji XF 55-200 f/3.5-4.8
  • Fuji XC 16-50 f/3.5-5.6
  • Fuji XC 50-230 f/4.5-6.7

On the published roadmap for later this year is another fast wide angle prime, a 50-140 f/2.8, 16-55 f/2.8 and 18-135.

The major omission is obviously long glass (300mm, 400mm, 600m). So, aside from the long primes, this is a pretty nice set of lenses to select from and pretty much all created in the last 2 years. That's one cranking development and manufacturing team.

What would say are the major missing lenses in the Fuji lineup that are preventing lots of people from buying Fuji?

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I must say I totally agree here. Fuji is doing really well for themselves and making all the right decisions. I just saw some product sample of the 56/1.2 and it looks amazing to say the least. I've been really on the fence about the Fuji Xt-1 + a couple primes or Nikon DF with all my current lens.

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Sergeg
Sergeg Senior Member • Posts: 2,654
Re: Nikon Should launch great Camera(FF Small Body) before Fuji launch FF

Hark back to classic 35mm miniture models like the Rollie 35 range finders, Minox etc.

So a FF chip in a mirror less body of similar dimensions should not be impossible to achieve

one would think.

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Donald Chin
Donald Chin Veteran Member • Posts: 5,665
Re: Nikon Should launch great Camera(FF Small Body) before Fuji launch FF

I've no interest at all @ DF so as XT1.
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