Looking for an alternative to Sony RX100ii that has Manual with auto-ISO

Started Mar 9, 2014 | Discussions
AndyW17 Contributing Member • Posts: 705
Looking for an alternative to Sony RX100ii that has Manual with auto-ISO

Does such a camera exist today?  I'm definitely getting tired of having to manually over-ride the silly firmware in the RX100ii for shots where I'd be OK with higher ISO, but I have to work to get it.

Ideally, I'd like a camera of similar IQ and form factor, but without the 1/30 second default (with no over-ride) and especially the option to have Auto-ISO in Manual.  I've done some searching, but as this is a bit obscure, it's difficult to find cameras with this feature. Perhaps some of you have come across this.  There's so much I like about this camera, but again this weekend, it was FRUSTRATING to use quickly inside to grab a moment.  Instead, lots of fiddling required…..

Sorry to keep talking about this issue on the forum, but I think I'm ready to look at alternatives.

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Andy

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Sony RX100
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StrokerAce23 Regular Member • Posts: 379
Re: Looking for an alternative to Sony RX100ii that has Manual with auto-ISO

Yeah, I didn't realize how nice this was on my D5100 until I was without it. Setting max ISO and min shutter speed takes a ton of work out of it. If I was a landscape photographer what would I care, but I bought the RX100 to have in my pocket for kids stuff, which doesn't allow for a ton of time or even being able to use two hands. I don't trust the auto mode as it misses too much on any camera since it doesn't have a brain and being in the ballpark is invaluable when taking photos in circumstances. Having it peg to f/1.8 and 1/30 shutter and an unreasonably low ISO is really annoying. However, I'm just going with S and forget it. Works more frequently than auto would.

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Steinhansel Regular Member • Posts: 245
Re: Looking for an alternative to Sony RX100ii that has Manual with auto-ISO

This very subject has been thoroughly been kicked around in this forum ad nauseum already.  If you have the camera and regret it, shame on you because you didn't do your homework.  If you don't have the camera you are a troll, shame on you.

Kindest regards,

Hans

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Nikon D5100 Sigma 17-50mm F2.8 EX DC OS HSM
elliottnewcomb Forum Pro • Posts: 13,763
Re: Looking for an alternative to Sony RX100ii that has Manual with auto-ISO

Pricey camera, but RX10 has Manual with Auto ISO

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/52772944

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Elliott

 elliottnewcomb's gear list:elliottnewcomb's gear list
Sony RX100 Sony RX1R Olympus Stylus 1 Sony RX100 III +1 more
BertIverson Veteran Member • Posts: 3,710
Re: Looking for an alternative to Sony RX100ii that has Manual with auto-ISO
2

AndyW17 wrote:

Does such a camera exist today? I'm definitely getting tired of having to manually over-ride the silly firmware in the RX100ii for shots where I'd be OK with higher ISO, but I have to work to get it.

Ideally, I'd like a camera of similar IQ and form factor, but without the 1/30 second default (with no over-ride) and especially the option to have Auto-ISO in Manual. I've done some searching, but as this is a bit obscure, it's difficult to find cameras with this feature. Perhaps some of you have come across this. There's so much I like about this camera, but again this weekend, it was FRUSTRATING to use quickly inside to grab a moment. Instead, lots of fiddling required…..

Sorry to keep talking about this issue on the forum, but I think I'm ready to look at alternatives.

-- hide signature --

Andy

Agreed that it is a shame the RX100 does not have auto ISO in M mode. Here is my work around.

I shoot in A mode with Auto ISO (200-1600)
I assigned ISO to the East side of the rear Control Wheel. So click E and turn for higher ISO/shutter speed.
But I mostly shoot outdoors so shutter speed is normally not an issue. Great pocket camera otherwise.

just 0.02
Bert

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Sony RX100 Sony RX10 IV +5 more
dpr4bb Contributing Member • Posts: 957
Re: Looking for an alternative to Sony RX100ii that has Manual with auto-ISO

AndyW17 wrote:

Does such a camera exist today? I'm definitely getting tired of having to manually over-ride the silly firmware in the RX100ii for shots where I'd be OK with higher ISO, but I have to work to get it.

Ideally, I'd like a camera of similar IQ and form factor, but without the 1/30 second default (with no over-ride) and especially the option to have Auto-ISO in Manual. I've done some searching, but as this is a bit obscure, it's difficult to find cameras with this feature. Perhaps some of you have come across this. There's so much I like about this camera, but again this weekend, it was FRUSTRATING to use quickly inside to grab a moment. Instead, lots of fiddling required…..

Sorry to keep talking about this issue on the forum, but I think I'm ready to look at alternatives.

-- hide signature --

Andy

The auto-ISO limitations of the RX100 are the main reason that I haven't been able to bring myself to buying one. I've looked for alternatives, but I haven't found another camera that's essentially an RX100 with better auto-ISO functionality.

OP AndyW17 Contributing Member • Posts: 705
Re: Looking for an alternative to Sony RX100ii that has Manual with auto-ISO

BertIverson wrote:

AndyW17 wrote:

Does such a camera exist today? I'm definitely getting tired of having to manually over-ride the silly firmware in the RX100ii for shots where I'd be OK with higher ISO, but I have to work to get it.

Ideally, I'd like a camera of similar IQ and form factor, but without the 1/30 second default (with no over-ride) and especially the option to have Auto-ISO in Manual. I've done some searching, but as this is a bit obscure, it's difficult to find cameras with this feature. Perhaps some of you have come across this. There's so much I like about this camera, but again this weekend, it was FRUSTRATING to use quickly inside to grab a moment. Instead, lots of fiddling required…..

Sorry to keep talking about this issue on the forum, but I think I'm ready to look at alternatives.

-- hide signature --

Andy

Agreed that it is a shame the RX100 does not have auto ISO in M mode. Here is my work around.

I shoot in A mode with Auto ISO (200-1600)
I assigned ISO to the East side of the rear Control Wheel. So click E and turn for higher ISO/shutter speed.
But I mostly shoot outdoors so shutter speed is normally not an issue. Great pocket camera otherwise.

just 0.02
Bert

Bert - thanks for that suggestion.  I'd put ISO on the control ring before, that that was pretty slow to work with.  This seems like a better configuration for the ISO setting.  Will try this for a bit and see how it goes.

-- hide signature --

Andy

 AndyW17's gear list:AndyW17's gear list
Sony RX100 II Olympus E-M1 Nikon D750 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 16-35mm F4G ED VR Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II +6 more
elliottnewcomb Forum Pro • Posts: 13,763
Re: Looking for an alternative to Sony RX100ii that has Manual with auto-ISO
1

I have to say, using Auto ISO with either A mode, or my favorite S mode (to avoid the too slow 1/30th) the RX100 selects a very successful combo of the other two parameters.

Watching the bottom info line, after setting your shutter speed, when you half press the shutter, it shows you the parameters it will use.

Using Auto ISO:

S mode: set 1/60th as your minimum for handheld (as I need to do).

You can then zoom some to change the f stop for more depth of field: you will see the f stop change as you zoom, no guessing. Now you have the shutter speed and aperture you want. Now you get Auto ISO. Want to know what it will be, half press the shutter.

In S or A mode: to avoid changing the zoom: change the exposure, brighter or darker. In S mode, it will now change the Aperture opening without zooming. You won't see the change until after you finish changing the exposure, but you will see it after you set it.

Now you have: chosen zoom, chosen speed, chosen exposure, chosen Aperture, and Auto ISO. Press shutter halfway to see what ISO it will use.

After practice it gets pretty intuitive.

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Elliott

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Sony RX100 Sony RX1R Olympus Stylus 1 Sony RX100 III +1 more
Bryan Costin Regular Member • Posts: 330
Re: Looking for an alternative to Sony RX100ii that has Manual with auto-ISO

Yeah. that's the same arrangement I eventually settled on. It works pretty well.

On my old LX3 I made frequent use of the minimum shutter speed option, which handled the same issues with less fuss. I love the RX100, but I do miss that.

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dpr4bb Contributing Member • Posts: 957
Re: Looking for an alternative to Sony RX100ii that has Manual with auto-ISO

elliottnewcomb wrote:

In S or A mode: to avoid changing the zoom: change the exposure, brighter or darker. In S mode, it will now change the Aperture opening without zooming. You won't see the change until after you finish changing the exposure, but you will see it after you set it.

I'm afraid I'm not following this. When you say "change the exposure," do you mean by changing the exposure compensation setting?

Ron AKA Veteran Member • Posts: 4,875
There is nothing wrong with the camera...

Andy, I'm sorry, but I think you need to take a photography course and learn how to use the camera you have.

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Sony RX100 Epson Stylus Photo R3000 +1 more
bpjod Contributing Member • Posts: 841
Re: Looking for an alternative to Sony RX100ii that has Manual with auto-ISO

AndyW17 wrote:

Does such a camera exist today? I'm definitely getting tired of having to manually over-ride the silly firmware in the RX100ii for shots where I'd be OK with higher ISO, but I have to work to get it.

Ideally, I'd like a camera of similar IQ and form factor, but without the 1/30 second default (with no over-ride) and especially the option to have Auto-ISO in Manual. I've done some searching, but as this is a bit obscure, it's difficult to find cameras with this feature. Perhaps some of you have come across this. There's so much I like about this camera, but again this weekend, it was FRUSTRATING to use quickly inside to grab a moment. Instead, lots of fiddling required…..

Sorry to keep talking about this issue on the forum, but I think I'm ready to look at alternatives.

-- hide signature --

Andy

Andy: I come from Pentax who have had TAv for a long time. I'm sure someone will correct me but I think they were the first to come out with Auto-ISO in Manual. I understand your wish for this feature and I'm glad that the RX10 has it.

That said, what exactly is wrong with using the S mode with Auto-ISO? Follow my line of thought for a moment and tell me where I'm wrong. If the 1/30 default is too slow for you than you're trying to achieve a higher shutter speed than what the camera selects in either A or P mode, correct? This means the light is low, but you still want a faster shutter speed to eliminate motion blur or camera shake, right? So, to get a higher shutter speed, you're willing to live with a little noise from higher ISO and shallower DOF from wider aperture, right?

So if the above is correct, then I'll say that there is no aperture that is really too shallow on the RX100. At the wider end, just by virtue of the wider angle, there's more DOF even though the aperture opens wider. At the longer end, the aperture closes down keeping the DOF fairly deep, even though the lens is longer. Now on a DSLR this can be an issue where the DOF can get too shallow when in S mode, but I've never found it to be an issue with 1" sensors or smaller. As for the noise, the RX100 seems to favour faster apertures before faster ISOs so you'll just have to live with the lesser noise and shallower DOF that the camera picks. As stated above, shallow DOF just isn't an issue with this camera (unless you're trying to achieve shallow DOF!) so I fail to see your problem with shooting these photos in S mode. Please point out the error(s) in my reasoning if there are any, but I suspect you are simply a slave to your shooting habits and not willing to give S mode on the RX100 a fair chance.

On a DSLR the lack of Auto-ISO in Manual mode is a problem, especially with fast telephoto lenses, but this just has not been a problem with the RX100. I never shot S mode before this camera, but now I use it all the time and it just works. Low light and action: just switch to S mode and change the shutter speed to whatever I require. Let the camera pick the aperture and ISO and get the best pictures the camera can accomplish under those conditions. Easy as can be!!!

As for an alternative to the RX100, if it's the combination of best picture quality possible from a package with a zoom lens that fits in your pocket, I'm sorry but with anything else out there, you'll just be disappointed when you compare the pictures. If you're willing to forgo the zoom, the Ricoh GR will fit the bill nicely.

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Sony Cyber-shot DSC-TX5 Sony RX100 Sony RX1 Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX10 Sony RX100 III +18 more
dpr4bb Contributing Member • Posts: 957
Re: Looking for an alternative to Sony RX100ii that has Manual with auto-ISO

bpjod wrote:

AndyW17 wrote:

Does such a camera exist today? I'm definitely getting tired of having to manually over-ride the silly firmware in the RX100ii for shots where I'd be OK with higher ISO, but I have to work to get it.

Ideally, I'd like a camera of similar IQ and form factor, but without the 1/30 second default (with no over-ride) and especially the option to have Auto-ISO in Manual. I've done some searching, but as this is a bit obscure, it's difficult to find cameras with this feature. Perhaps some of you have come across this. There's so much I like about this camera, but again this weekend, it was FRUSTRATING to use quickly inside to grab a moment. Instead, lots of fiddling required…..

Sorry to keep talking about this issue on the forum, but I think I'm ready to look at alternatives.

-- hide signature --

Andy

Andy: I come from Pentax who have had TAv for a long time. I'm sure someone will correct me but I think they were the first to come out with Auto-ISO in Manual. I understand your wish for this feature and I'm glad that the RX10 has it.

That said, what exactly is wrong with using the S mode with Auto-ISO? Follow my line of thought for a moment and tell me where I'm wrong. If the 1/30 default is too slow for you than you're trying to achieve a higher shutter speed than what the camera selects in either A or P mode, correct? This means the light is low, but you still want a faster shutter speed to eliminate motion blur or camera shake, right? So, to get a higher shutter speed, you're willing to live with a little noise from higher ISO and shallower DOF from wider aperture, right?

So if the above is correct, then I'll say that there is no aperture that is really too shallow on the RX100. At the wider end, just by virtue of the wider angle, there's more DOF even though the aperture opens wider. At the longer end, the aperture closes down keeping the DOF fairly deep, even though the lens is longer. Now on a DSLR this can be an issue where the DOF can get too shallow when in S mode, but I've never found it to be an issue with 1" sensors or smaller. As for the noise, the RX100 seems to favour faster apertures before faster ISOs so you'll just have to live with the lesser noise and shallower DOF that the camera picks. As stated above, shallow DOF just isn't an issue with this camera (unless you're trying to achieve shallow DOF!) so I fail to see your problem with shooting these photos in S mode. Please point out the error(s) in my reasoning if there are any, but I suspect you are simply a slave to your shooting habits and not willing to give S mode on the RX100 a fair chance.

On a DSLR the lack of Auto-ISO in Manual mode is a problem, especially with fast telephoto lenses, but this just has not been a problem with the RX100. I never shot S mode before this camera, but now I use it all the time and it just works. Low light and action: just switch to S mode and change the shutter speed to whatever I require. Let the camera pick the aperture and ISO and get the best pictures the camera can accomplish under those conditions. Easy as can be!!!

As for an alternative to the RX100, if it's the combination of best picture quality possible from a package with a zoom lens that fits in your pocket, I'm sorry but with anything else out there, you'll just be disappointed when you compare the pictures. If you're willing to forgo the zoom, the Ricoh GR will fit the bill nicely.

Depth of field is not the only consideration in controlling aperture. Lens sharpness is also a consideration. The RX100 lens sharpens appreciably as you close the aperture, especially at the wider end.

dpr4bb Contributing Member • Posts: 957
Re: There is nothing wrong with the camera...

Ron AKA wrote:

Andy, I'm sorry, but I think you need to take a photography course and learn how to use the camera you have.

Which photography course is going to give Andy what he is looking for (auto-ISO in the M mode)? He is clearly sophisticated enough to appreciate the value of auto-ISO in the M mode, so I don't think he can be thought of as someone who doesn't know how to use his camera...

elliottnewcomb Forum Pro • Posts: 13,763
Re: Looking for an alternative to Sony RX100ii that has Manual with auto-ISO

dpr4bb wrote:

elliottnewcomb wrote:

In S or A mode: to avoid changing the zoom: change the exposure, brighter or darker. In S mode, it will now change the Aperture opening without zooming. You won't see the change until after you finish changing the exposure, but you will see it after you set it.

I'm afraid I'm not following this. When you say "change the exposure," do you mean by changing the exposure compensation setting?

Good catch, I wish I had said change the exposure compensation 'A Little'. Not so much that you cannot successfully adjust it later, Jpeg or RAW.

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Elliott

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Ron AKA Veteran Member • Posts: 4,875
Re: There is nothing wrong with the camera...

dpr4bb wrote:

Ron AKA wrote:

Andy, I'm sorry, but I think you need to take a photography course and learn how to use the camera you have.

Which photography course is going to give Andy what he is looking for (auto-ISO in the M mode)? He is clearly sophisticated enough to appreciate the value of auto-ISO in the M mode, so I don't think he can be thought of as someone who doesn't know how to use his camera...

Sorry again, but because someone comes to the conclusion that having auto-ISO in the Manual mode is essential indicates they are not very knowledgeable about photography. Just about any basic course that covers the methods of adjusting exposure will do.

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Sony RX100 Epson Stylus Photo R3000 +1 more
dpr4bb Contributing Member • Posts: 957
Re: There is nothing wrong with the camera...

Ron AKA wrote:

dpr4bb wrote:

Ron AKA wrote:

Andy, I'm sorry, but I think you need to take a photography course and learn how to use the camera you have.

Which photography course is going to give Andy what he is looking for (auto-ISO in the M mode)? He is clearly sophisticated enough to appreciate the value of auto-ISO in the M mode, so I don't think he can be thought of as someone who doesn't know how to use his camera...

Sorry again, but because someone comes to the conclusion that having auto-ISO in the Manual mode is essential indicates they are not very knowledgeable about photography. Just about any basic course that covers the methods of adjusting exposure will do.

Classic straw man argument... Nobody has said that auto-ISO in the M mode is "essential." And nobody is forcing anybody else into using auto-ISO in the M mode, either.

Do you use auto-ISO at all?

Ron AKA Veteran Member • Posts: 4,875
Re: There is nothing wrong with the camera...

dpr4bb wrote:

Do you use auto-ISO at all?

Yes, and it works fine. And I don't find the 1/30 second shutter speed to be a problem at all. At 28 mm equiv. it should use 1/30, and I would be disappointed if it didn't. I do not find a use for Manual mode. S or A can do anything that M can do.

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Sony RX100 Epson Stylus Photo R3000 +1 more
bpjod Contributing Member • Posts: 841
Re: Looking for an alternative to Sony RX100ii that has Manual with auto-ISO

dpr4bb wrote:

Depth of field is not the only consideration in controlling aperture. Lens sharpness is also a consideration. The RX100 lens sharpens appreciably as you close the aperture, especially at the wider end.

True; however (at least on my sample), this is only an issue in the corners. For the majority of the photos where I need the faster shutter speeds, the corners are not likely to be in the plane of focus (or the subject) anyways so the fact that they are a little soft is irrelevant. Consequently, I still fail to see this as a deal-breaker. Ideal? No. Workable? Absolutely.

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