Considering the Panasonic 20mm with GF6 but concerned about lack of OIS

Hi all,

I've recently bought a Panasonic GF6 (my first step up from a point and click), I fancy getting the Panasonic 20 mm II lens for it's size and it also seems good at getting that nice bokeh look.

I'm just a little concerned as my GF6 doesn't have stabilisation built in to the body and the lens doesn't have any stabilisation either. I've looked for alternatives but it seems only the larger zoom lenses have the OIS feature. I'd hope I could use it in both day and evening and although I have a mini tripod almost all of my photos are shot with the camera in hand.

Does anyone have any experience of what using this lens will be like without any stabilisation? Would many shots (especially in the evening) be often blurry? Any advice/experience would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,

Jimmy

p.s out of curiosity why did Panny release cameras without stabilisation in their body then also launch lovely lenses that don't have stabilisation in? I would have thought that they would have chosen either to put it in the lens or body and been consistent across their range?

OIS will make this lens bigger - something that you would not appreciate, I think.

Based om my experience, you may be safe with shutter speed 1/20 (or faster) which means that you can take night shots having F 1.7 - F2.0 and ISO 1250-1600.

its a fast(ish) prime and fast primes rarely have IS because it isn't as needed as faster shutter speeds are more viable. this is nothing new. there are millions of dslr's out there with no in body IS an where very few of their primes have IS. IS may be nice to have but just isn't that important. If there is anything moving in your shots IS won't help you anyway…you need to use faster shutter speed.

Out of all the things I own (see gear list below), I've never used my primes and wished that I had OIS or IBIS. Doesnt bother me.

I find myself wishing for faster apertures a lot when I'm using my stabilized zooms though...

This isnt to say a fast prime + stabilization wouldnt be great, but I've just never needed it.

The Lumix 20mm was my favourite lens on my GF1 (that doesn't have IS neither). I took hundreds of shots with it. I don't remember getting a single blurred picture with it.

jimmyleeds wrote:

Does anyone have any experience of what using this lens will be like without any stabilisation? Would many shots (especially in the evening) be often blurry? Any advice/experience would be greatly appreciated!

Stick to the old rule of thumb and you'll be fine. On MFT that's a minimum shutter speed of 1/(2*focal length). In low light, set the mode dial on S and shutter speed to 1/40.

jimmyleeds wrote:

Hi all,

I've recently bought a Panasonic GF6 (my first step up from a point and click), I fancy getting the Panasonic 20 mm II lens for it's size and it also seems good at getting that nice bokeh look.

There is one thing the 20mm is NOT so good for and that is getting nice bokeh. Pancake lenses are not known for their "creamy" bokeh. It has nothing to do with the focal length (of course you get more background blur with a longer lens). The 20mm simply produces what people would call a "busy" look. Here is an example (look at full size).

20mm at f/1.7

If you're shooting non-moving subjects in low light, then image stabilization (in the lens or in the camera) is useful.  If you'se shooting moving subjects (people, pets), then IS becomes irrelevant: any blurring is likely caused by subject movement, not camera movement, so you have to keep up the shutter speed to minimize blurring.  In this type of situation, it doesn't help to have IS that allows you to hand-hold the camera at 1/5 sec..; subject movement--even of a minor sort, like a person not standing absolutely still--at that shutter speed you're going to get some blurring.  A fast lens allows you to have a faster shutter speed.

Bob

Never worried about it nor had a problem with my v1 200mm/F1.7

You need to choose your shutter speed in accordance with subject movement and magnification -  the 20mm is equivalent in magnification to a 40mm lens in Full Frame, hence I try to stick to a minimum shutter speed of 1/40s - a bit slower shutter speed can be used if your subject is stationary and you have good hand-holding technique.

Paul De Bra wrote:
There is one thing the 20mm is NOT so good for and that is getting nice bokeh. Pancake lenses are not known for their "creamy" bokeh. It has nothing to do with the focal length.

As far as I know, a creamy bokeh is impossible to get with a wide-angle or a normal prime. I'm willing to change my mind if you have an example to share with us that shows the contrary...

JeanPierre Martel wrote:

Paul De Bra wrote:
There is one thing the 20mm is NOT so good for and that is getting nice bokeh. Pancake lenses are not known for their "creamy" bokeh. It has nothing to do with the focal length.

As far as I know, a creamy bokeh is impossible to get with a wide-angle or a normal prime. I'm willing to change my mind if you have an example to share with us that shows the contrary...

Try any one of the native M4/3 Voigtländers. They can deliver beautiful bokeh.

Paul De Bra wrote:

jimmyleeds wrote:

Hi all,

I've recently bought a Panasonic GF6 (my first step up from a point and click), I fancy getting the Panasonic 20 mm II lens for it's size and it also seems good at getting that nice bokeh look.

There is one thing the 20mm is NOT so good for and that is getting nice bokeh. Pancake lenses are not known for their "creamy" bokeh. It has nothing to do with the focal length (of course you get more background blur with a longer lens). The 20mm simply produces what people would call a "busy" look. Here is an example (look at full size).

Although the 20/1.7 is not ideal for subject isolation by means of background blur, I'd primarily chalk that up to the focal length along with the max aperture and the sensor format. Not so easy to get a lot of blur with a lens that is equivalent to a 40/3.4 on FF. While the quality (as opposed to quantity) of the blur is not ideal, it is no worse in that regard than most other lenses with similar specs. And I don't know at all what the degree of pancakiness has to do with it. The non-pancake 25/1.4 is no better (I'd rather say a tad worse) with regard to the quality of the OOF rendering. But it can of course generate more blur due to the slightly longer FL and slightly wider max aperture.

I rarely go for subject isolation by means of background blur with the 20. I'd normally use my 45/1.8 or 75/1.8 for that (both of which capable of delivering more as well as better blur). But when I use the 20 wide open and get some blur with it, it usually does OK for my standards. A couple of examples below.

20mm at f/1.7

jeffharris wrote:

JeanPierre Martel wrote:

Paul De Bra wrote:
There is one thing the 20mm is NOT so good for and that is getting nice bokeh. Pancake lenses are not known for their "creamy" bokeh. It has nothing to do with the focal length.

As far as I know, a creamy bokeh is impossible to get with a wide-angle or a normal prime. I'm willing to change my mind if you have an example to share with us that shows the contrary...

Try any one of the native M4/3 Voigtländers. They can deliver beautiful bokeh.

Beautiful, yes. But a creamy bokeh, that should be possible only with the 42,5mm and not with the 25mm (which I own) nor with the 17,5mm. Herewith is an example of the bokeh of the Voigtländer 25mm:

Rose grandifolia "Rainbow Sorbet"

So unless you have some specific examples (that I would be glad to see), I still think that a creamy bokeh is simply impossible for any wide-angle or normal prime.

s_grins wrote:

OIS will make this lens bigger - something that you would not appreciate, I think.

Based om my experience, you may be safe with shutter speed 1/20 (or faster) which means that you can take night shots having F 1.7 - F2.0 and ISO 1250-1600.

Yes. And if you use tricks like leaning yourself or the camera against solid objects, you can shoot with even longer shutter speeds. Sometimes I'll set my camera down and use the self timer and much longer shutter speeds.