No more Nx2. Welcome to NXD!

Started Feb 25, 2014 | Discussions
FujicaST605
FujicaST605 Regular Member • Posts: 462
Re: NX-D won't open NEF files that were modified by CNX2?

I don't use CNX2, but Thom seems to think there is going to be an incompatibility problem...

http://www.dslrbodies.com/accessories/software-for-nikon-dslrs/software-news/the-embedded-adjustments.html

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Mako2011
MOD Mako2011 Forum Pro • Posts: 25,567
Not an issue

FujicaST605 wrote:

I don't use CNX2, but Thom seems to think there is going to be an incompatibility problem...

http://www.dslrbodies.com/accessories/software-for-nikon-dslrs/software-news/the-embedded-adjustments.html

Not an issue for me as I never edit any original NEF file but always only work from a copy. Amazes me that folks wouldn't do that. Even with a strictly Adobe workflow...working from a copy only always makes sense.

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JimPearce
JimPearce Veteran Member • Posts: 9,188
What difference does that make Mako?

I read what Thom wrote, but it isn't entirely logical. All edits in NX2 are reversible. Here is what I'll be doing (if and when the situation is clarified):

1. Going through folder by folder and converting my edits to TIFFs. This is the only way of ensuring long term access to the edits.

2. After producing a TIFF, I may copy the same file as a NEF and cancel all of the edits that won't be picked up by other software. Or not. The only potential issue I see here is that say LR 5 might have a problem reading the file. Perhaps someone here could check? As a last resort there is a LR plug-in that reads NX2 files : http://www.robcole.com/Rob/ProductsAndServices/NxTooLrPlugin/ (thanks jwaif).

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Jim

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Mako2011
MOD Mako2011 Forum Pro • Posts: 25,567
true...

JimPearce wrote:

I read what Thom wrote, but it isn't entirely logical. All edits in NX2 are reversible. Here is what I'll be doing (if and when the situation is clarified):

Yes, but you can no longer use the NEF that CNX2 produces (it is now no longer original) by other Nikon software and some indications that brightness/contrast settings that CNX2 bake in may not allow you to get the exact same result from ACR as you would with the original NEF. Said another way...CNX2 changes the RAW file in a way that limits its use/funcionality vs the original NEF.

1. Going through folder by folder and converting my edits to TIFFs. This is the only way of ensuring long term access to the edits.

That's always an option...but you still never have access to the original NEF once It's saved via CNX2. Not the case with ViewNX2.

2. After producing a TIFF, I may copy the same file as a NEF and cancel all of the edits that won't be picked up by other software.

Sure, but as IO said, it's not the original NEF and some functionality is lost.

Or not. The only potential issue I see here is that say LR 5 might have a problem reading the file.

Yep...and so may ACR (have problems) in the future...and so on. That's why I don't work on Original NEF's vs a copy. I never will have the issues you might have in the future as the original NEF is lost...in your case.

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JimPearce
JimPearce Veteran Member • Posts: 9,188
There are two pretty big assumptions in there Mako...

1. That the TIFF from my existing edit is somehow a worse place to start than the original NEF. When would this be the case? I grant that someone who suddenly discovers he was over-sharpening might have a problem here.

2. That the NEF saved by CNX2 contains less accessible information (relative to Software X) than the original NEF. This looks like speculation to me; if there's proof I'd love to see it.

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Jim

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Mako2011
MOD Mako2011 Forum Pro • Posts: 25,567
Sure

JimPearce wrote:

1. That the TIFF from my existing edit is somehow a worse place to start than the original NEF.

If you need to make changes in highlights and shadows...that may indeed be the case if DR is extreme. Even the Tiff generated from an unedited NEF in ViewNX2 is very different from the TIFF CNX2 generates from the same unedited NEF.  Your Tiff now has CNX2 NR backed in if used.

When would this be the case? I grant that someone who suddenly discovers he was over-sharpening might have a problem here.

There you go...over sharpened or poor noise reduction vs what Topaz 6.65 can to 2 years from now. The Shadows pulled in CNX2 may be far inferior to what we can do with the original NEF in ACR 10.7

2. That the NEF saved by CNX2 contains less accessible information (relative to Software X) than the original NEF. This looks like speculation to me; if there's proof I'd love to see it.

Use a Hexadecimal editor or simply examine to resulting NEF's with RAW digger. Check the highlight areas in a near clipped NEF and see if you can tell. I'll try it later and see.

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JimPearce
JimPearce Veteran Member • Posts: 9,188
Well...
2

Since I generally shoot within 1/3 stop of my edited shot and CNX2 D-Lighting is pretty good I don't have too much concern. But in general I will have to back out edits to delete crops especially, so I might as well go all of the way back to Camera Settings.

I suppose in the scheme of things this only delays the destruction of my images by a few years anyway: I'm sure my daughter will pop my hard disks into the crematorium with me.

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Mako2011
MOD Mako2011 Forum Pro • Posts: 25,567
should work

JimPearce wrote:

Since I generally shoot within 1/3 stop of my edited shot and CNX2 D-Lighting is pretty good I don't have too much concern. But in general I will have to back out edits to delete crops especially, so I might as well go all of the way back to Camera Settings.

Shouldn't affect your level of PP then. I simply like having the option of using other software on the original NEF and saving the original NEF with CNX2 prevents that. Just a simple acknowledgement about the recommendation to always work on a copy and not the original.

I suppose in the scheme of things this only delays the destruction of my images by a few years anyway: I'm sure my daughter will pop my hard disks into the crematorium with me.

I wish I could be so lucky Good Luck.

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twamers Senior Member • Posts: 1,320
Re: should work

Well, well, well.  In CNX2 I've only ever used a copy too.  I have all my original NEF's untouched and on my hard disk and double backed up.  Natural caution is my reasoning.

jwaif Regular Member • Posts: 475
Re: Sure

Mako2011 wrote:

Use a Hexadecimal editor or simply examine to resulting NEF's with RAW digger. Check the highlight areas in a near clipped NEF and see if you can tell. I'll try it later and see.

Mako,
Since you have your original NEF an easy way to test this is on a copy of a NEF. Open it with ViewNX2 and without making any changes save it as a TIFF. Open it with Capture NX2 and save the NEF. Now open the modified NEF with ViewNX2 and save it again as a TIFF. If Capture NX2 has changed the NEF then the TIFFs should be different. I'd be interested in your results.
John

Mako2011
MOD Mako2011 Forum Pro • Posts: 25,567
They are

jwaif wrote:

Mako2011 wrote:

Use a Hexadecimal editor or simply examine to resulting NEF's with RAW digger. Check the highlight areas in a near clipped NEF and see if you can tell. I'll try it later and see.

Mako,
Since you have your original NEF an easy way to test this is on a copy of a NEF. Open it with ViewNX2 and without making any changes save it as a TIFF.

The TiFF ViewNX2 creates is 8 bit only and very different from the one CNX2 creates. Have already looked at this a number of ways and confirmed.

Open it with Capture NX2 and save the NEF. Now open the modified NEF with ViewNX2 and save it again as a TIFF. If Capture NX2 has changed the NEF then the TIFFs should be different.

They are but I'm not sure it's not due to the way ViewNX2 converts to TIFF. Using a Hexadecimal editor...the difference is pretty large. How it translates in Photoshop CC...I haven't figured out yet.  Not sure if it's a loss of actual detail or not. Don't think the change to NX-D will affect me and might even help get me a true 16-bit tiff vs havering to use CNX2 for that. May work out for the best in the long run.  Not sure. Thanks for the suggestion.

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JimPearce
JimPearce Veteran Member • Posts: 9,188
Huh?

In the "Convert File" menu of ViewNX2 you can choose between 8 bit and 16 bit TIFF.

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Jim

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Mako2011
MOD Mako2011 Forum Pro • Posts: 25,567
But not 16

JimPearce wrote:

In the "Convert File" menu of ViewNX2 you can choose between 8 bit and 16 bit TIFF.

True...but the 16 bit TIFF ViewNX2 generates is not really a 16bit TIFF but an 8bit TIFF with every value just doubled. That's why if I have very high DR and lots of PP in the shadows and highlights to do...I convert with CNX2 and not ViewNX2. Basic stuff...the 8bit TIFF is fine.

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JimPearce
JimPearce Veteran Member • Posts: 9,188
I'll bite Mako...

You know this how? I've never used ViewNX2 for conversions either.

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Mako2011
MOD Mako2011 Forum Pro • Posts: 25,567
It does

JimPearce wrote:

You know this how? I've never used ViewNX2 for conversions either.

GirinoFumetto brought it up:

" I discovered a very strange fact: All the 16 bits color values had their high order byte identical to their low order byte!....the 16 bits tiff files produced by my copy of ViewNX 2 where de facto 8 bits tiff files with the low order byte duplicating the high order byte instead of having a more reasonable value of zero, in other words, not only wrong resolution but also wrong value"

I simply took some time and confirmed with my own hexadecimal editor. Really only a player in the DR extremes...I think. Will have to check NX-D when it goes final. I don't like those kind of surprises.

JimPearce
JimPearce Veteran Member • Posts: 9,188
Hmm...

I'm glad I found that out before using ViewNX2 to save my edits as TIFFs.

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Jim

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Mako2011
MOD Mako2011 Forum Pro • Posts: 25,567
Way true

JimPearce wrote:

I'm glad I found that out before using ViewNX2 to save my edits as TIFFs.

Way true!!

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kantucky Contributing Member • Posts: 719
Is This A Joke?

I just downloaded this version of Capture and I have to ask, are they serious? Why would they even bother to bring this version out to start with? I remember how difficult of a struggle it was for me to decide whether I wanted to start using LR last year and stop using NX2. Wow, how much easier it would have been to make up my mind if I could have seen this hit the market.

Mako2011
MOD Mako2011 Forum Pro • Posts: 25,567
As noted

kantucky wrote:

I just downloaded this version of Capture and I have to ask, are they serious? Why would they even bother to bring this version out to start with? I remember how difficult of a struggle it was for me to decide whether I wanted to start using LR last year and stop using NX2. Wow, how much easier it would have been to make up my mind if I could have seen this hit the market.

Again, as noted above...I do not think NX-D is actually meant to replace CNX2.

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brucet
brucet Veteran Member • Posts: 3,246
Re: As noted

Mako2011 I think it's a case of folks reacting before reading the actual release notes. Nikon has NEVER stated that NX-D is a replacement. Unfortunately Nikon used the title 'Capture' and many folks jumped to the conclusion that it was a replacement for their old program. I see it as more a replacement for View.

Now I've been using NX-D for a few weeks now. Yes it's a 'simple' program. But it's giving me excellent results. Good enough for me to dump ASP in favour of NX-D. Anything NX-D can't do I can do with PSP later.

regards

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