What does A6000 mean for the A77 replacement (good things IMHO)

Started Feb 18, 2014 | Discussions
K E Hoffman
K E Hoffman Senior Member • Posts: 5,101
What does A6000 mean for the A77 replacement (good things IMHO)

There is a lot of nice stuff on the A6000 Focus system wise.

Would you need micro-adjust anymore with sensor based PD and CD fine tuning?

Full frame fast AF with enough focus points to track like Nikon has for years?

Could this year be the year for Mirrorless A-mount? Patent was filed and now the A6000 if tests confirm marketing could be the tech needed to make it happen.

I know I would not be happy with an A7 type body and an adapter..

but what if Sony got the body size down to classic film SLR sizes with IBIS, but user changeable mount module. So the same body cold access a-mount and e-mount lenses.

The two most important things I see in the A6000

  1. The AF system
  2. Sony stayed with 24 MP.. and we would assume picked up some better efficiency with lower noise. (we'll see)

If they took this to a larger, better control set, A-mount. That would be quite the camera.

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K.E.H. >> Shooting between raindrops in WA<<
Don't Panic!.. these are just opinions... go take some pictures..

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VirtualMirage
VirtualMirage Veteran Member • Posts: 3,922
Re: What does A6000 mean for the A77 replacement (good things IMHO)

K E Hoffman wrote:

There is a lot of nice stuff on the A6000 Focus system wise.

Would you need micro-adjust anymore with sensor based PD and CD fine tuning?

With the focusing sensors being located directly on the imaging sensor, you should no longer need MFA.  MFA is primarily used to compensate for when the PD AF sensor is not at the same distance from the lens as the sensor.  So in this respect, MFA is no longer needed.  But MFA can also be used to adjust for flaws in the lens.  This is where MFA can still be useful.

But with a hybrid on sensor AF system, MFA may not be needed at all.  The Phase Detect AF sensors can be used to acquire focus quickly while contrast detect AF fine tunes the last bit to perfection.  So essentially, the contrast detection AF step can be used to replace MFA and overcome flaws in the lens.

If tying these two together to work seamlessly and quickly, then it would be a great system to use.  The concern would be low light focusing.  Contrast detection AF tends to hunt in low light and I would be concerned that if focusing on a hybrid system is always two step process (PD first, contrast detect second) that the second step might cause for slow low light lock on times.

I wonder if the technology used today disables the contrast detect AF step when light is too low for it to be effective.

The other plus of the hybrid AF is that Phase Detection is superior than contrast detection for tracking.  Phase detection knows which direction an object is heading while contrast detection not so much.

I would really like to see an improved hybrid system make its way into the next A-mount camera, SLT or no SLT.  Ideally, it would be more suitable for a non-SLT camera.

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Paul

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nandbytes Senior Member • Posts: 5,950
Re: What does A6000 mean for the A77 replacement (good things IMHO)

If the AF can match A77 in ALL situations, I think mirrors are dead. EVF will only get better and better.

I think we are going to see a 36mp a-mount with the same AF if speed matches A77 or some kind of hybrid. Think we are not going see much more than 1/2 stop ISO improvements. Also 4K.

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EinsteinsGhost
EinsteinsGhost Forum Pro • Posts: 11,977
Re: What does A6000 mean for the A77 replacement (good things IMHO)

I see a6000's AF system as a potential game changer for A-mount and in a great way. The key issue will be driving PDAF lenses, which is practically all lenses except the STF (which is MF), to get along with CDAF as well. If Sony has been preparing many of its lenses (new SAM and SSM as well as updates) over last couple of years, chances are these lenses have the dual motor AF which might be the key to taking advantage of focal plane AF.

But what about other lenses? That is where SLT might still find use: stow it away unless the lens works the old fashioned way in which case use SLT to support legacy with old fashioned PDAF (still giving users a choice to go mirrorless if they are okay with slower AF).

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Glenn Veteran Member • Posts: 7,877
Re: What does A6000 mean for the A77 replacement (good things IMHO)

K E Hoffman wrote:

I know I would not be happy with an A7 type body and an adapter..

but what if Sony got the body size down to classic film SLR sizes with IBIS, but user changeable mount module. So the same body cold access a-mount and e-mount lenses.

It's all good.. if it works. this made me chuckle because the, "user changeable mount module" IS an adapter. LAEA4 could be called a mount module.

Tonkotsu Ramen
Tonkotsu Ramen Senior Member • Posts: 2,311
Re: What does A6000 mean for the A77 replacement (good things IMHO)

I really don't care for the SLT mirror, because tech moves forwards, no matter what.

I'm more worried about things like a nice grip, long battery life, a large articulating lcd, image stabilization, lots of manual control, native A-mount lens usage, good EVF. Things that you simply cannot get with a small sized camera.

Sometimes, with all of those things put into the camera, the size of E-mount cameras just doesn't really make sense (See: A3000) so to me, there will forever be a spot for A mount. It just may not be as mainstream.

It's very worrying though, as sony is completely silent on this. Saying "we're dedicated to A mount" means nothing if there aren't actual new bodies being released now and then.

EinsteinsGhost
EinsteinsGhost Forum Pro • Posts: 11,977
Re: What does A6000 mean for the A77 replacement (good things IMHO)

I really don't care for the SLT mirror, because tech moves forwards, no matter what.

I'm more worried about things like a nice grip, long battery life, a large articulating lcd, image stabilization, lots of manual control, native A-mount lens usage, good EVF. Things that you simply cannot get with a small sized camera.

Sometimes, with all of those things put into the camera, the size of E-mount cameras just doesn't really make sense (See: A3000) so to me, there will forever be a spot for A mount. It just may not be as mainstream.

It's very worrying though, as sony is completely silent on this. Saying "we're dedicated to A mount" means nothing if there aren't actual new bodies being released now and then.

May be because it is not smart to invest in minimal updates when going thru a transition being bet on. For Sony. If a6000 represents THE development we have been looking forward to, an a77 replacement launched a few months ago would be a poor idea not just for Sony but also consumers. The a77 is still one of the most capable top end APSc bodies out there, with outstanding AF speed. An a78 stop gap could have gotten a few sales at a higher price than a77 goes for but if a79 could get what future of A-mount is, the wait might be worth it: to Sony and to the consumers.

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dlkeller Veteran Member • Posts: 6,922
Re: What does A6000 mean for the A77 replacement (good things IMHO)

That's a very large IF.  Agree, IF this focusing system matches SLT focusing speed with no degradation of image it is obvious that it is the future.  We'll have to wait and see if this happens and, if so, what is the future of A mount?  Mirrorless adaptor?  Same camera with different mount?  Gradual phase out with removal of screw drive focus motor then eventually the mount?

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Dave

JimmyMelbourne Senior Member • Posts: 2,458
Re: What does A6000 mean for the A77 replacement (good things IMHO)

Glenn wrote:

K E Hoffman wrote:

I know I would not be happy with an A7 type body and an adapter..

but what if Sony got the body size down to classic film SLR sizes with IBIS, but user changeable mount module. So the same body cold access a-mount and e-mount lenses.

It's all good.. if it works. this made me chuckle because the, "user changeable mount module" IS an adapter. LAEA4 could be called a mount module.

It could be considered an adapter but it could be fully integrated into the camera functionality, which means no loss of functionality between A and E Mount lenses on the same camera. This is where this concept differs from current adapters.

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JimmyMelbourne Senior Member • Posts: 2,458
Re: What does A6000 mean for the A77 replacement (good things IMHO)
1

dlkeller wrote:

That's a very large IF. Agree, IF this focusing system matches SLT focusing speed with no degradation of image it is obvious that it is the future. We'll have to wait and see if this happens and, if so, what is the future of A mount? Mirrorless adaptor? Same camera with different mount? Gradual phase out with removal of screw drive focus motor then eventually the mount?

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Dave

I dont think a camera without a motor and mount would be useful for anyone

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Glenn Veteran Member • Posts: 7,877
Re: What does A6000 mean for the A77 replacement (good things IMHO)

what loss of functionality is there with the LA4 adapter? in fact it expands functionality to include PDAF on the NEX bodies. I don't see this as not being an integrated solution. cosmetically they could make it look less like an adapter but that's just window dressing.

nandbytes Senior Member • Posts: 5,950
Hahahahaha, good one /nt

dlkeller wrote:

That's a very large IF. Agree, IF this focusing system matches SLT focusing speed with no degradation of image it is obvious that it is the future. We'll have to wait and see if this happens and, if so, what is the future of A mount? Mirrorless adaptor? Same camera with different mount? Gradual phase out with removal of screw drive focus motor then eventually the mount?

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Dave

I dont think a camera without a motor and mount would be useful for anyone

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Sam_Oslo
Sam_Oslo Veteran Member • Posts: 3,022
It means the biggest obstacle for a mirrorless A-mount is gone

It can have several impact on A79, but A6000's fast AF means the biggest obstacle for a mirrorless A-mount is gone now.

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dlkeller Veteran Member • Posts: 6,922
Re: What does A6000 mean for the A77 replacement (good things IMHO)

Got me! Insert  "A" in front of mount.  All Canon DSLRs, lower end models of Nikon DSLRs, and E Sony E mount cameras do OK without screw drive motors as long as you use the right lenses.

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Dave

JimmyMelbourne Senior Member • Posts: 2,458
Re: What does A6000 mean for the A77 replacement (good things IMHO)

I would prefer a solution whereby the A mount lens fully utilises the mirrorless features of the camera, without a mirror. This means autofocus functionality being utilised from the camera directly, not from the adaptor itself.

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tqlla Veteran Member • Posts: 3,882
Re: What does A6000 mean for the A77 replacement (good things IMHO)

Will the focusing system even work with Amount screw drive lenses?

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JimmyMelbourne Senior Member • Posts: 2,458
Re: What does A6000 mean for the A77 replacement (good things IMHO)

Thats a key question, but why shouldnt it? As long as the camera has an in body motor.

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nandbytes Senior Member • Posts: 5,950
Re: What does A6000 mean for the A77 replacement (good things IMHO)

dlkeller wrote:

Got me! Insert "A" in front of mount. All Canon DSLRs, lower end models of Nikon DSLRs, and E Sony E mount cameras do OK without screw drive motors as long as you use the right lenses.

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Dave

Actually beercan and min 50mm are very much the right lenses. If something can't AF them then its the wrong body

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EinsteinsGhost
EinsteinsGhost Forum Pro • Posts: 11,977
Re: What does A6000 mean for the A77 replacement (good things IMHO)

Thats a key question, but why shouldnt it? As long as the camera has an in body motor.

Screw driven lenses do have a better chance of supporting PDAF-CDAF hybrid since the motor in the body could potentially be designed to accomodate the needs. However, being screw driven itself could pose speed challenges since the direction has to change quickly for fine tuning via CDAF.

With in lens motors, hardware would be the key factor. Sony might be putting dual motor system in new SAM and SSM lenses (incl updated ones) but old ones will likely struggle going mirrorless. For those lenses, SLT might stay.

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EinsteinsGhost
EinsteinsGhost Forum Pro • Posts: 11,977
Re: What does A6000 mean for the A77 replacement (good things IMHO)

Got me! Insert  "A" in front of mount.  All Canon DSLRs, lower end models of Nikon DSLRs, and E Sony E mount cameras do OK without screw drive motors as long as you use the right lenses.

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Dave

As long as one uses the right lenses, there won't be any issue at all, not even of mount.

But a key factor will be ability to support legacy lenses. Nikon has forced entry/mid level DSLR buyers into replacing the screw driven lenses. OTOH, Sony didn't do that even with SLT adapters for E-mount. So, chances are, Sony respects legacy more than Nikon and will likely support it.

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