Am I wrong? A6000 just a NEX 7 with a composite body and no tri navi

Started Feb 17, 2014 | Discussions
quezra Veteran Member • Posts: 3,915
Re: Am I wrong? A6000 just a NEX 7 with a composite body and no tri navi
1

People really need to distinguish with SAR's opinions and speculations and (gosh) rumors, against actual facts or statements by Sony

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mike geier
OP mike geier Senior Member • Posts: 1,703
Re: Am I wrong? A6000 just a NEX 7 with a composite body and no tri navi

I guess you miss the point. This camera is a cheaped down verison of the NEX 7., and nothing more. SONY does that with all of their products, all the time

I never have any focusing problems, ever. I've taken over 20,000 images with the 7 and have NO PROBLEMS. The only problem I ever had was a video button in the wrong place,that was fixed with a software fix AFTER I fixed it with a physical rubber grommet

By the way, the only camera I feel is a NEX 7 equal, is my Nikon D7100, but because of it's size I usually choose the NEX to take with me.....

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EinsteinsGhost
EinsteinsGhost Forum Pro • Posts: 11,977
Re: Am I wrong? A6000 just a NEX 7 with a composite body and no tri navi

I guess you miss the point. This camera is a cheaped down verison of the NEX 7., and nothing more. SONY does that with all of their products, all the time

I never have any focusing problems, ever. I've taken over 20,000 images with the 7 and have NO PROBLEMS. The only problem I ever had was a video button in the wrong place,that was fixed with a software fix AFTER I fixed it with a physical rubber grommet

By the way, the only camera I feel is a NEX 7 equal, is my Nikon D7100, but because of it's size I usually choose the NEX to take with me.....

It is a camera model on its own, like NEX-3/C3/F3/3N, NEX-5/5N/5R/5T, NEX-6, NEX-7, a3000, a7, a7r and a5000 before it. It is not a "version" of NEX-7, rather a new model placed in NEX-5R segment. The NEX-7 was a premium camera that cost 2x as much and is still to be replaced.

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BlueBomberTurbo Senior Member • Posts: 1,387
Re: Am I wrong? A6000 just a NEX 7 with a composite body and no tri navi
2

mike geier wrote:

By the way, the only camera I feel is a NEX 7 equal, is my Nikon D7100, but because of it's size I usually choose the NEX to take with me.....

Have you ever compared image quality between the two?  The D7100 blows the doors off the NEX-7.  D7100 vs NEX-6 is a bit more fair, but the D7100 still walks away, no contest.  I've got both, and was appalled at the NEX-7's image after ISO 800, so I got an NEX-6 instead.  Amusingly, I find myself shooting it more than the D7100 because of its MF ability and Speed Booster availability, but the D7100 is still in use for sports and max quality images.  Hoping the A6000 can be its equal in both.

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Marla2008
Marla2008 Senior Member • Posts: 2,419
Re: Am I wrong? A6000 just a NEX 7 with a composite body and no tri navi
2

BlueBomberTurbo wrote:

mike geier wrote:

By the way, the only camera I feel is a NEX 7 equal, is my Nikon D7100, but because of it's size I usually choose the NEX to take with me.....

Have you ever compared image quality between the two? The D7100 blows the doors off the NEX-7. D7100 vs NEX-6 is a bit more fair, but the D7100 still walks away, no contest. I've got both, and was appalled at the NEX-7's image after ISO 800, so I got an NEX-6 instead. Amusingly, I find myself shooting it more than the D7100 because of its MF ability and Speed Booster availability, but the D7100 is still in use for sports and max quality images. Hoping the A6000 can be its equal in both.

Oh oh, one needs a pair of rubber boots to read through that crap, lol...

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Tom Caldwell Forum Pro • Posts: 33,914
a7000 anyone?

Marla2008 wrote:

I actually see if more as a humpless, APS-C A7.

To me, a long time N7 user who still picks my N7 over any other camera (and yes, I returned the A7), the N7 is mostly about TriNavi and mag alloy case. Both these things make a huge difference vs other cameras. I loved my N6 units and like the 6's IQ slightly over the N7, but I still always pick the N7 when going out the door, because the TriNavi is genius for a Manual shooter like me, and the metal construction *feels* completely different in the hand.

I though the A7's build was appropriate, but not superb. I expect the A6000 (which I preordered anyway) to have pretty much the same. The new custom controls are welcome, but very necessary to balance the loss of the TriNavi. Fortunately, from what I read, the top dial is very configurable, which should let anybody adapt it to their shooting styles.

I hope the jpeg processing is NOT that of the A7, which I did find much worse than the N7's.

As amazing as the N7 is (and I'm totally keeping mine), if the AF claims of the A6000 are true, then it's gonna be a pretty neat camera.

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Maria

Going to be interesting to see how that evf stacks up in practice as a good MF camera does need a good evf built in. It actually is quite useful for AF as well.

However I am wondering if the roles of the NEX6 and NEX7 are in the process of being reversed. The NEX7 was the premium bodied version with "Tri-Nav" (which I have never used) and the better sensor. The NEX6 came later and had a smaller sensor, a less premium body, but arguably more mainstream iindustry controls. Whether Tri-Nav is better or worse is not part of my present discussion.

Might the NEX7 have been turned into a cut price a6000 with goodies plus a down-rated evf lest it be seen as rivaling any other model. Sometime in the next month or so might we get the "a7000" which would be a premium bodied NEX6 with similar controls, all the a6000 goodies plus a few more, an uprated sensor, high resolution evf and a price point higher than the a6000.

Such a model would be more attractive to me. Of course everyone with an a6000 will go to great pains to declaim that the lower resolution lcd is in fact better for everything, including magnified MF use. In fact this may well be so but I find it hard to believe. Maybe for movies, maybe fine for AF purposes.

Maybe the multiple NEX models are approaching the point where Sony camera owners might be be starting to buy upgrade models that they want but hardly need? After all the blazing fast PDAF is only going to work on oem Sony lenses and be of no help for manual focus unless they are blessed by Sony with a PD focus confirm indication. The latter would be a selling point all in itself.

Furthermore the PDAF on my NEX6 isssomewhat selective and not necessarily active in all Sony E mount lenses, further is anyone of common sense going to be buying any more E mount lenses for aps-c? Surely the rare, large and expensive "bird": FE mount lenses, should be the lenses of choice now even for the NEX bodies? Just "in case" one is tempted into an A7 type now or one of its next generation successors.

As a MF lens user with a perfectly good NEX6 I can see no reason why I should be at all interested in the a6000 itself.

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Tom Caldwell

edwardaneal
edwardaneal Veteran Member • Posts: 9,101
Re: Yes, you are wrong
1

Donny out of Element here wrote:

mike geier wrote:

Am I wrong? A6000 just a NEX 7 with a composite body and no tri navi, in other words, a cheaped down NEX 7?

It has OSPDAF AF that NEX-7 can dream of.

worthless unless you only use Sony AF lenses designed for PDAF

It has improved sensor with better high ISO.

no one knows this yet - no one has actually tested it yet

It has better battery life.

again - how do you know this? wouldn't higher procession power actually reduce battery life?

It has Wi-Fi and NFC. It has new much faster BIONZ-X quad core chip with new jpeg engine and selective noise reduction. It has much better price.

The only "downgrade" is EVF (still sharper and cleaner look than one in N6/7) and absence of tri-navi, BUT it has dedicated MR mode on top dial, C1 and C2 buttons, and 7 customizable buttons overall. IMHO it is a no contest with N6/7. Not even close.

we will see where this sensor actually falls when its been actually tested - until then its all just speculation

as to the PDAF - absolutely worthless to me - it won't work with my Sigma 30 or 60 or the 19 I plan on getting and I will not downgrade the sharpness of my lenses just to have faster focus I will never use

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BlueBomberTurbo Senior Member • Posts: 1,387
Re: Am I wrong? A6000 just a NEX 7 with a composite body and no tri navi

Marla2008 wrote:

BlueBomberTurbo wrote:

mike geier wrote:

By the way, the only camera I feel is a NEX 7 equal, is my Nikon D7100, but because of it's size I usually choose the NEX to take with me.....

Have you ever compared image quality between the two? The D7100 blows the doors off the NEX-7. D7100 vs NEX-6 is a bit more fair, but the D7100 still walks away, no contest. I've got both, and was appalled at the NEX-7's image after ISO 800, so I got an NEX-6 instead. Amusingly, I find myself shooting it more than the D7100 because of its MF ability and Speed Booster availability, but the D7100 is still in use for sports and max quality images. Hoping the A6000 can be its equal in both.

Oh oh, one needs a pair of rubber boots to read through that crap, lol...

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Feel free to wade through the sample RAWs at sites like here or PhotographyBlog, as well, and make comparisons.  LOTS of my work is done at mid and high ISO, so the NEX-7 would just limit what I could shoot.  The NEX-6 uses the same sensor as the D7000, which is considered to be almost equal in overall noise to the D7100 if you're talking 100% crops.  The NEX-7 would easily beat the 6 for studio, tripod-mounted landscape, and sunny day shots, but that's about it.

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davect01
davect01 Veteran Member • Posts: 8,076
Re: Am I wrong? A6000 just a NEX 7 with a composite body and no tri navi
4

mike geier wrote:

Am I wrong? A6000 just a NEX 7 with a composite body and no tri navi, in other words, a cheaped down NEX 7?

And this is bad??

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Donny out of Element here Contributing Member • Posts: 996
Re: Yes, you are wrong
1

edwardaneal wrote:

Donny out of Element here wrote:

mike geier wrote:

Am I wrong? A6000 just a NEX 7 with a composite body and no tri navi, in other words, a cheaped down NEX 7?

It has OSPDAF AF that NEX-7 can dream of.

worthless unless you only use Sony AF lenses designed for PDAF

yes, if you think CDAF stayed the same speed, which may have improved actually

It has improved sensor with better high ISO.

no one knows this yet - no one has actually tested it yet

It states so at the Sony website and the reason is improved RGB filter as well as soem other tech used in this new sensor.

It has better battery life.

again - how do you know this? wouldn't higher procession power actually reduce battery life?

420 shots as per CIPA (it is no secret) I can't comment on processing power vs efficiency - it's not to us to determine that ratio

It has Wi-Fi and NFC. It has new much faster BIONZ-X quad core chip with new jpeg engine and selective noise reduction. It has much better price.

The only "downgrade" is EVF (still sharper and cleaner look than one in N6/7) and absence of tri-navi, BUT it has dedicated MR mode on top dial, C1 and C2 buttons, and 7 customizable buttons overall. IMHO it is a no contest with N6/7. Not even close.

we will see where this sensor actually falls when its been actually tested - until then its all just speculation

Agreed, but speculations are based on facts and what we know so far from Sony itself about A6000 - so it's not like we are pointing a finger to a sky.

as to the PDAF - absolutely worthless to me - it won't work with my Sigma 30 or 60 or the 19 I plan on getting and I will not downgrade the sharpness of my lenses just to have faster focus I will never use

We don't know about that yet - it may turn out Sigma lenses will AF faster even under improved CDAF of A6000. Anyway, we'll see.

edwardaneal
edwardaneal Veteran Member • Posts: 9,101
Re: Am I wrong? A6000 just a NEX 7 with a composite body and no tri navi

BlueBomberTurbo wrote:

Feel free to wade through the sample RAWs at sites like here or PhotographyBlog, as well, and make comparisons. LOTS of my work is done at mid and high ISO, so the NEX-7 would just limit what I could shoot. The NEX-6 uses the same sensor as the D7000, which is considered to be almost equal in overall noise to the D7100 if you're talking 100% crops. The NEX-7 would easily beat the 6 for studio, tripod-mounted landscape, and sunny day shots, but that's about it.

and you just proved why no one can say which one os "better" we don't all need or want the same things.

I can count my low light shots on one hand and with proper processing I find I get shots that are easily good enough for my uses when I do

NEX-7 ISO 3200

click to view 100% original

I find the above results perfectly acceptable and for the other 99% of my shots that are ay base ISO 100 My NEX-7 will beat just about any other APS-c Camera made

so whats "best" for you is not necessarily whats "best" for most other people

and another NEX-7 ISO 6400

chances are if the A6000 has better high ISO performance it has nothing to do with the sensor it will all be because of improved in camera processing and if you know how to do it yourself in post processing then there really isn't any difference

JMO

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Donny out of Element here Contributing Member • Posts: 996
Re: Am I wrong? A6000 just a NEX 7 with a composite body and no tri navi

davect01 wrote:

mike geier wrote:

Am I wrong? A6000 just a NEX 7 with a composite body and no tri navi, in other words, a cheaped down NEX 7?

And this is bad??

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Novice photobug. Former 3 and F3 owner. Current proud 6 owner.
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Exactly. Apparently OP wants a real macho NEX-7 replacement, and if he is not getting one, then he wants to call A6000 a "cheapo version". We got it that he has NEX-7 and he is frustrated that some other cheapo camera can be much better one for many of us in every way. If one doesn't liek something it needs not to be translated to others. There are plenty of users at this forum who can think for themselves and need no guidance to name A6000 a cheapo NEX-7 version. It's enough already.

Tom Caldwell Forum Pro • Posts: 33,914
Re: Am I wrong? A6000 just a NEX 7 with a composite body and no tri navi

mike geier wrote:

like I said, a cheaped down NEX 7

Followed by the luxury version of the NEX6 appropriately named the a7000.  To get the pecking order corrected of course.

Sony seem quite adept at spraying out multiple models with variations to fill market niche positions.  Just like the rest of the electronic goods industry marketing.  It is symptomatic of hairdryers to my way of thinking.

All hair dryers dry hair.  Go to the local electrical warehouse and you will find considerable numbers of hairdryers at all sorts of price points, shapes and sizes as manufacturers compete for a share of this fickle market.

Cameras take images and when the market get saturated it mst get to the point where to attract the buyers attention some new features are added and some are taken away.  The a7000 might have re-found the hi-res evf but lost the extra phase detect points.  So the avid buyer must choose whichever least inconveniences.

Of course for the moment the lower res evf in the a6000 must be believed to be an advance on that previously offered.  This leaves the door open for any upgrade that re-offers a higher resolution evf.

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Tom Caldwell

davect01
davect01 Veteran Member • Posts: 8,076
Re: Am I wrong? A6000 just a NEX 7 with a composite body and no tri navi
2

Donny out of Element here wrote:

davect01 wrote:

mike geier wrote:

Am I wrong? A6000 just a NEX 7 with a composite body and no tri navi, in other words, a cheaped down NEX 7?

And this is bad??

-- hide signature --

Novice photobug. Former 3 and F3 owner. Current proud 6 owner.
http://davesnex-3photos.blogspot.com/

Exactly. Apparently OP wants a real macho NEX-7 replacement, and if he is not getting one, then he wants to call A6000 a "cheapo version". We got it that he has NEX-7 and he is frustrated that some other cheapo camera can be much better one for many of us in every way. If one doesn't liek something it needs not to be translated to others. There are plenty of users at this forum who can think for themselves and need no guidance to name A6000 a cheapo NEX-7 version. It's enough already.

Then he should get an A7.  
Don't see crying about what's available.  It is what it is.

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SQLGuy Veteran Member • Posts: 5,806
Re: Am I wrong? A6000 just a NEX 7 with a composite body and no tri navi
1

BlueBomberTurbo wrote:

Marla2008 wrote:

BlueBomberTurbo wrote:

mike geier wrote:

By the way, the only camera I feel is a NEX 7 equal, is my Nikon D7100, but because of it's size I usually choose the NEX to take with me.....

Have you ever compared image quality between the two? The D7100 blows the doors off the NEX-7. D7100 vs NEX-6 is a bit more fair, but the D7100 still walks away, no contest. I've got both, and was appalled at the NEX-7's image after ISO 800, so I got an NEX-6 instead. Amusingly, I find myself shooting it more than the D7100 because of its MF ability and Speed Booster availability, but the D7100 is still in use for sports and max quality images. Hoping the A6000 can be its equal in both.

Oh oh, one needs a pair of rubber boots to read through that crap, lol...

-- hide signature --

"If you don't have an expression, you don't have a shot" - Peter Hurley.
http://itsnotthecamera.wordpress.com/

Feel free to wade through the sample RAWs at sites like here or PhotographyBlog, as well, and make comparisons. LOTS of my work is done at mid and high ISO, so the NEX-7 would just limit what I could shoot. The NEX-6 uses the same sensor as the D7000, which is considered to be almost equal in overall noise to the D7100 if you're talking 100% crops. The NEX-7 would easily beat the 6 for studio, tripod-mounted landscape, and sunny day shots, but that's about it.

Are you comparing in-camera JPGs? DXO shows the D7100 as only 1/4 stop better than the NEX-7 in high ISO noise. That's statistically significant, but but still really minor... less even than the SLT's give up for their mirrors. The JPG processing could make a big difference, though.

Marla has already said that she prefers the NEX-7 JPG implementation over the new one used in the A7/A7R. I don't, but to each their own. If she likes NEX-7 JPGs, she may not like D7100 JPGs, regardless of whether they look better to you.

BTW, Marla, I think it pretty likely that the A6000 will indeed have the same JPG processing as the A7/A7R.

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A7 with kit lens and a number of legacy lenses (mostly Canon FD)

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icycool123 Regular Member • Posts: 166
Re: Am I wrong? A6000 just a NEX 7 with a composite body and no tri navi
4

No way, nex7 jpegs beats the a7. I used to own the nex 7 so i know. Nex7 would likely beat the a7 if you're using the a7 in crop mode only, like marla was when she had the camera. 10 vs 24 megapixel. But the a7 in ff mode in extra fine settings is one of the best jpeg outputs i've seen. Even nicer than the a99.

quezra Veteran Member • Posts: 3,915
Re: Am I wrong? A6000 just a NEX 7 with a composite body and no tri navi
1

icycool123 wrote:

No way, nex7 jpegs beats the a7. I used to own the nex 7 so i know. Nex7 would likely beat the a7 if you're using the a7 in crop mode only, like marla was when she had the camera. 10 vs 24 megapixel.

I find this hard to believe.  How can someone shooting in 10 MP crop have any kind of fair opinion about the IQ of the A7? I put the SEL 35/1.8 on my A7 once for fun and couldn't stand it after about 2 minutes (it felt like my 5N shooting video ... only these were stills). Shoot it with an FE lens and the difference would be like night and day.  Even the much maligned kit lens.

But the a7 in ff mode in extra fine settings is one of the best jpeg outputs i've seen. Even nicer than the a99.

Yeah, as do most of the serious review sites - even DPR if you read the "criticism" closely for what it doesn'tfind fault with.

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semifast Contributing Member • Posts: 780
Re: Am I wrong? A6000 just a NEX 7 with a composite body and no tri navi

The Lotus Eater wrote:

The A3000 is more like an Nex7 than the A6000 is.

It really isn't.

It really is. If the A6000 really has a breakthrough af system that will make it completely different than all preceding Nexs meaning any without it will be closer to each other than they are to the A6000.

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LouMeluso
LouMeluso Contributing Member • Posts: 600
Re: Am I wrong? A6000 just a NEX 7 with a composite body and no tri navi
1

I think I'm just keeping my NEX 6 for now. For my walk around type shooting, which I use the Sony for, 16MP is more than plenty. Will see how things settle in 6 months or so.

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Bruce Oudekerk
Bruce Oudekerk Veteran Member • Posts: 3,482
a6000 EVF

Donny out of Element here wrote:

It has OSPDAF AF that NEX-7 can dream of. It has improved sensor with better high ISO. It has better battery life. It has Wi-Fi and NFC. It has new much faster BIONZ-X quad core chip with new jpeg engine and selective noise reduction. It has much better price.

The only "downgrade" is EVF (still sharper and cleaner look than one in N6/7) and absence of tri-navi, BUT it has dedicated MR mode on top dial, C1 and C2 buttons, and 7 customizable buttons overall. IMHO it is a no contest with N6/7. Not even close.

To be honest I could care less about the Jpeg engine as long as it doesn't screw up the histogram too badly.

I don't THINK that the lower resolution EVF in that a6000 will be its Achilles heel but what bothered me about the N7 was the EVF granularity in any sort of low light. Some lesser speced EVFs were significantly better in my estimation and overall that would be more important...I think. Everyone has a different threshold of pain but I won't know where mine is until I actually get to play with the a6000.

I'm optimistic.

Bruce

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