Panny 25mm 1.4 vs Olympus 25mm 1.8 Reviewed

Started Feb 15, 2014 | Discussions
amtberg Veteran Member • Posts: 6,081
Re: Panasonic lenses don't work well on Olympus cameras

tgutgu wrote:

amtberg wrote:

dgrogers wrote:

amtberg wrote:

True, but it's correctible in software, or by using a UV2A filter. There's not correcting for 2/3 stop slower.

But there is evidence suggesting it might not be 2/3 stops slower. The difference in background blur is so minor you have to look for it, and the camera was selecting a shutter speed that was 20% slower at the same aperture with the Panasonic lens to get the same exposure with the Olympus lens. I'm sure there will be more comparisons, but the initial findings were surprising.

It's common in fast lenses that wider apertures don't translate completely to faster exposures. But the PL is still faster and it does still have narrower DOF, which I think will turn out to be less subtle than Mr. Wong would have you believe....

Maybe we can find a Panasonic employee to do the same comparison.

That is not necessary. The images of Robin Wong speak for themselves. The DOF difference is insignificant.

Yep, figures never lie.  

arbuz Senior Member • Posts: 2,247
Re: PM Henrys vs Aden :)

Jeff Tokayer wrote:

FrankS009 wrote:

The last time I checked, the price of the 25mm was $509 at Aden - it seems up to $519 now. It is $539 at Future Shop. Henry's will price match.

F.

interesting discussion, but the Oly is not even in Stock at Henry's, FS, Bb, or Aden. The Oly can be had for $299 when bundled with a body The Penny cannot.

looks like Robin Wong argument.

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arbuz Senior Member • Posts: 2,247
Re: Panasonic lenses don't work well on Olympus cameras
1

tgutgu wrote:

That is not necessary. The images of Robin Wong speak for themselves. The DOF difference is insignificant.

For you. And Robin. Now tell this to thousands of people that buy lens faster than 1.8 and spend a lot of money for the difference. Many of them professional photographers.

Even if the transmission difference is less than 2/3 EV, the bokeh difference is 2/3EV because it does not depend from transmission but from F-stop. looking at the picture with yellow gas tak I see the difference quite clearly.

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arbuz Senior Member • Posts: 2,247
Re: Panny 25mm 1.4 vs Olympus 25mm 1.8 Reviewed
1

What about the distortion? Robin does not comment on that at all. Looking at the ruined building picture (the one used for aberration comparison) it seems there is significantly less distortion on panasonic.

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draleks Forum Member • Posts: 76
Elephant in the room
1

broody wrote:

Honestly, people are making too much out of this comparison. Robin Wong admitted his testing methodology was in no way rigorous, and further I suspect his hand is forced in making pro-Olympus statements (one funny line that struck out at me was his claim that all Olympus primes were tack-sharp corner to corner when shot wide open... Not remotely true for any of the wide primes).

Yes, that appears to be the elephant in this chat room. If Wong were to write a review that was bad for Olympus, he would obviously risk getting in trouble at work. I may be a Summilux fanboy, but I am still free to write anything I want, unless my boss catches me writing it during the work hours.

Now we know the Oly 25mm is a good lens, and also that it has some rather different rendering qualities from the Leica... Honestly I don't think the price difference is so large that one would not buy one or the other just for a preference in size and rendering, rather than for 'value'. These lenses are so similar and at once very different. The Oly has that harsh, in-your-face microcontrast of all telephoto Zuikos. The Leica has a gentler rendering, and one I happen to prefer. I don't care if the T-stop difference is 2/3 EV or 1/3 EV.

arbuz Senior Member • Posts: 2,247
Re: I think its a Big Win for Olympus 28/1.8
2

007peter wrote:

Readin R.W.'s review:

  • Olympus is smaller than Panasonic
  • Olympus has superior CA control

On Olympus bodies. It's up to Olympus to provide better CA. Panasonic is able to do it, OPlympus choses not to. That's very much against siprit of u4/3 , don't you think? It was supposed to be open system, all lenses working fine on all bodies and now see, all interoperability issues are related to Olympus. First issues with 20mm, then with 7-14mm, issues with CA correction... Somehow Panasonic is able to cope with that.

  • Olympus is slightly wider (see conclusion): wider is easier to use as walk-about prime

At the cost of more distortions.

  • Olympus is estimated about 1/3 stop brighter by R.W.

brigther than what? That 1.4 Pana? RW  shoudl work in his phrasing more - it's not that Olympus is 1/3 brighter than Pana. It's about Panasonic being 1/3EV darker than nominal f1.4. I.e. there is still 1/3EV difference in favour for Pana (P is 1.4, Oly is 1.8, 1.4+1/3EV = 1.8 - 1/3EV) . Assumed, RW measurements are correct.

I wonder how he get's this biased phrasing in the overall correct language in a way that Olympus benefits from it.

  • Olympus is cheaper.
  • Bokeh is not much difference between the two.

The difference is as it is supposed to be for 2/3 f-stop difference. Suddenly no need for glass brighter than 1.8 because Olympus does not make one?

I think its safe to say its a big win for Olympus.

For sure for it's die hard fans. Actually for them it was a big win on the day of announcement, rest was only to day Pana advantages are insignificant and Oly advantages are important.

Am I correct to assume that Olympus MSC = quieter than Panasonic? I tried a Panny 25 a while back, but can hear AF noise.

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Ming-KM Regular Member • Posts: 217
Re: Something to consider...

Price is not something that should drive lens purchase decisions. If you can get a copy of each lens then a simple shoot out will prove which one YOU and only YOU prefer.
I own a panaleica 25 and I can get hold of an oly 25 when it becomes available at my camera store and I can try out the lens.
Somehow I am pretty sure I will chose the panaleica(fanboy talking)but I will give it a go. I am not an employee of Panasonic but I will probably buy the 15 f1.7 when it comes out. I have had good experience with the panaleicas and the real Leicas.
When I couldn't afford a lens I simply waited till I had saved enough or bought it second hand. To differentiate on price is a little silly IMHO.

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sigala1 Veteran Member • Posts: 3,818
Re: The good news is...

Bluephotons wrote:

That there is an option now, I have the Panaleica "under watch" in my Amazon wish list for more than a year and the darn thing don't get even a "KFC promotional Happy meal discount", I'm pretty sure that by the end of the year you'll be able to get the Oly for around $300, if you have the patience and fishing skills. Thanks Oly and Robin!

Of course you always had the option of buying a cheap Panasonic body to use with your Panasonic lenses. I picked up a G5 a while back for only $300 or so, so if you can afford these expensive lenses you can also afford an extra Panasonic body to go with them.

Paul Auclair Veteran Member • Posts: 4,694
MIJ

i've always been interested in RW's findings and his approach.

i feel he gives honest opinions with the good and the bad(if there is bad worth mentioning).

seems to me that he has NOT changed the way he approaches anything since he became an employee of Olympus.

anyhoo- it does not surprise me to hear an opinion stating a brand new dZuiko 25 mm lens model of significantly lighter weight is sometimes sharper (in places) than an ~5 year older model.

as 'unpredictable' as Oly are i really would not have expected them to release a dZuiko 25 1.8 to us that was not up to the challenge to the other m4/3 25 mm offering(s) and not up to the IQ quality of their other similar lenses.

BTW i have the P/L 25 1.4. it's the only non Olympus (non legacy) lens I use (4/3 and m4/3) and I do like it.

The one small point I will mention is it's MIJ (made in Japan).

Is the MIJ important? I do not know really.To me the concern is QC no matter where the product is made.

I have read comments in the past that user's with equipment that was not MIJ were unhappy about a particular item not being MIJ. Is a lens, by default, 'better' if it's MIJ rather MI(other asian country)

I'm looking forward to a more formal/standard test comparison too. Not that i'd swap(-$) my P/L.

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Paul

mh2000 Senior Member • Posts: 2,813
Re: "Less than precisely rigorous," maybe

amtberg wrote:

mh2000 wrote:

Typically, when people traditionally compared a 50/1.8 vs a 50/1.4, it was usually based on lens quality differences, not nit picking the differences between f1.8 and f1.4. Looks like only the build quality of the P/L 25 is noticeably better in this case.

Disagree.  Lens manufacturers don't go to such extremes of design and cost to produce fast f/1-1.4 lenses just so they'll look better at f/1.8 and above.  Photographers have always been willing to pay top dollar for fast glass because it provides more flexibility in exposure and composition.

In the present case it's not a huge difference but it's noticeable and it's just silly to pretend that it doesn't exist.

Look at the differences between the Canon "nifty 50" and compare to the EF 50/1.4 (or Nikon alternatives). There is a lot more differentiating the lenses than just the faster aperture.

The speed difference between f1.4 and f1.8 is just not that much.

Granted, if you were a Leica shooter, this doesn't apply, the only real difference between a Summicron f2 and Summilux f1.4 is the aperture, they are both quality Leica lenses.

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Krich13 Contributing Member • Posts: 767
Re: Panny 25mm 1.4 vs Olympus 25mm 1.8 Reviewed
4

dgrogers wrote:

Robin Wong has compared the Panny 25mm 1.4 to the Olympus 25mm 1.8.

http://robinwong.blogspot.it/2014/02/olympus-mzuiko-25mm-f18-lens-review.html

There are some interesting points. First, the Panasonic required a slower shutter speed at the same aperture, meaning there may be a difference in the way Olympus measures their f/stop and the way Panasonic does.

There seems to be very little difference in background blur, but there is a hair more with the Panasonic.

I think Robin Wong just fooled you all. He minimized the differences in the background blur by carefully adjusting the framing of the shots. Were you looking at the out-of focus areas? Good, now please look at the in-focus images.

Olympus is (according to the Robins observations) a wider lens... So the man's face should occupy smaller part of the frame if shot from the same position, or the same part if framed correctly for comparison. What do we actually see? The man's face is bigger in the Olympus shot! Look at the ear crop in the cropped-frame comparison to compare the relative image sizes.

Obviously Robin got closer to the target for his Olympus shot, and naturally focused closer too. Of course the background blur is exaggerated there, and the differenced with a faster lens successfully minimized/hidden!

The same applies to the market shots: the pile of red peppers is obviously photographed from closer distance using Olympus than Panaleica, putting a faster lens at disadvantage.

Altruisto Contributing Member • Posts: 910
PL25 gives better 3Dimensionality
2

In M43, every bit of shallow depth of field is needed, and what PL25 is offering is truly a minimum to get that separation and 3dimensionality in the photos, at least at 50mm eq.

In Mr Wong review, there are already some examples that demonstrate it, but the web small size makes them less obvious. In normal street photography for instance, you want to have some environmental portraits, and even at that work distance, PL25 continues to offer some separation to give the photo a sense of depth. I don't see it in this example in the Oly shot. And I know this is very important for me.

I recognize though, that the Oly has less onion rings and fringing in bokeh rings.

In my experience too, PL25 is sharp as hell at f2.8, till the furthest corners. There's something else you don't see in these shots, it's the unique look of this lens photos, its colors and contrast. It's a lens that has character and personality and I prefer it to many clinically perfect lenses in my arsenal. My choice would always be the sweat Panny.

PL25

Oly.

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amtberg Veteran Member • Posts: 6,081
Re: "Less than precisely rigorous," maybe

mh2000 wrote:

amtberg wrote:

mh2000 wrote:

Typically, when people traditionally compared a 50/1.8 vs a 50/1.4, it was usually based on lens quality differences, not nit picking the differences between f1.8 and f1.4. Looks like only the build quality of the P/L 25 is noticeably better in this case.

Disagree. Lens manufacturers don't go to such extremes of design and cost to produce fast f/1-1.4 lenses just so they'll look better at f/1.8 and above. Photographers have always been willing to pay top dollar for fast glass because it provides more flexibility in exposure and composition.

In the present case it's not a huge difference but it's noticeable and it's just silly to pretend that it doesn't exist.

Look at the differences between the Canon "nifty 50" and compare to the EF 50/1.4 (or Nikon alternatives). There is a lot more differentiating the lenses than just the faster aperture.

The speed difference between f1.4 and f1.8 is just not that much.

Granted, if you were a Leica shooter, this doesn't apply, the only real difference between a Summicron f2 and Summilux f1.4 is the aperture, they are both quality Leica lenses.

It's not a chicken and egg problem, though.  Canon, Nikon, etc., put more effort and higher quality components into their faster lenses because they know that their most demanding customers want the fastest lenses they can get.

javayoda Regular Member • Posts: 371
howmuchblur.com
Lawrence22 Regular Member • Posts: 116
Re: Panny 25mm 1.4 vs Olympus 25mm 1.8 Reviewed

The PL25 gives more richness in color and better 3Ddimensionality is quite obvious.

Lawrence

gswpete Junior Member • Posts: 37
Bingo!
2

Of course it's a "non-scientific" test so it's to be expected that all the Olympus shots are closer to the target right?

OP dgrogers Veteran Member • Posts: 7,079
Re: Bingo!

gswpete wrote:

Of course it's a "non-scientific" test so it's to be expected that all the Olympus shots are closer to the target right?

Would you save some tin foil for the rest of us?

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Completely infatuated with the "OMG"

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amtberg Veteran Member • Posts: 6,081
Re: Bingo!

dgrogers wrote:

gswpete wrote:

Of course it's a "non-scientific" test so it's to be expected that all the Olympus shots are closer to the target right?

Would you save some tin foil for the rest of us?

Will you put in the same drawer with your all-day sucker?

OP dgrogers Veteran Member • Posts: 7,079
Re: Bingo!

amtberg wrote:

dgrogers wrote:

gswpete wrote:

Of course it's a "non-scientific" test so it's to be expected that all the Olympus shots are closer to the target right?

Would you save some tin foil for the rest of us?

Will you put in the same drawer with your all-day sucker?

If you don't believe what you're seeing with your own eyes then who's being suckered here?

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Dave Sanders Senior Member • Posts: 2,542
That is...

Lawrence22 wrote:

The PL25 gives more richness in color and better 3Ddimensionality is quite obvious.

Lawrence

...complete bunk. Honestly, to even say so shows that you misunderstand the fundamentals of digital imaging.

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Dave Sanders

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