A6000 first picture

Started Feb 11, 2014 | Discussions
SQLGuy Veteran Member • Posts: 5,388
Re: A6000 first picture

Son Of Mustang Ford wrote:

parallaxproblem wrote:

j0sh wrote:

FYI http://is.gd/Hhqryb

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The A7-style grip is a bit of a worry: I find the 'ridge' on the A7 grip very uncomfortable

A big concern to me as ergonomics are very important - if you don't like handling a camera then you won't use it (unless you are a pro and need to for your job)

Also if this camera contains the same EVF as the A7 then it is final proof that the A7's 'hump' is just a 'fashion statement' and not technically necessary! Maybe the internal flash would have to be removed, but otherwise there is sufficient space for a FF sensor in this body... so why wasn't the A7 housed in a NEX-6 and the A7r in a NEX-7 body?

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They have a bigger sensor AND a faster shutter.

Correct. Also, just because they use the same OLED doesn't mean they'll have the same lenses in front of it. How sure are we about what is meant when someone says "same EVF"? The whole unit, or just the same OLED display?

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PVCdroid
PVCdroid Senior Member • Posts: 4,328
Re: A6000 first picture

SQLGuy wrote:

Son Of Mustang Ford wrote:

parallaxproblem wrote:

j0sh wrote:

FYI http://is.gd/Hhqryb

-- hide signature --

The A7-style grip is a bit of a worry: I find the 'ridge' on the A7 grip very uncomfortable

A big concern to me as ergonomics are very important - if you don't like handling a camera then you won't use it (unless you are a pro and need to for your job)

Also if this camera contains the same EVF as the A7 then it is final proof that the A7's 'hump' is just a 'fashion statement' and not technically necessary! Maybe the internal flash would have to be removed, but otherwise there is sufficient space for a FF sensor in this body... so why wasn't the A7 housed in a NEX-6 and the A7r in a NEX-7 body?

-- hide signature --

DUMP the HUMP! Campaign for *REAL* NEX replacement bodies
* newly updated ignore list: hostile responses are probably not visible to me

They have a bigger sensor AND a faster shutter.

Correct. Also, just because they use the same OLED doesn't mean they'll have the same lenses in front of it. How sure are we about what is meant when someone says "same EVF"? The whole unit, or just the same OLED display?

-- hide signature --

A7 with kit lens and a number of legacy lenses (mostly Canon FD)

I've asked this a few times and never get a good response. What is the difference in the A7 or A7R vs. NEX-7, 6 or even 5N EVF? The resolution and size specs appear to be the same. Is it brighter or what?

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saintz Contributing Member • Posts: 551
Re: A6000 first picture
1

CalvinLayne wrote:

After a few lens switches the black mount is gonna be full of unsightly scratches ugh there goes my planned update.

I'm the same way. I was going to buy a Ferrari, but they don't offer it in primer grey. One door ding, and when I patch it, it's going to be so obvious because the rest of the car is red. So, I'm sticking with my 1996 Hyundai Tiburon. It's almost as fast, plus it has no scratches since I just spray it down with primer every year.

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SQLGuy Veteran Member • Posts: 5,388
Re: A6000 first picture

PVCdroid wrote:

SQLGuy wrote:

Son Of Mustang Ford wrote:

parallaxproblem wrote:

j0sh wrote:

FYI http://is.gd/Hhqryb

-- hide signature --

The A7-style grip is a bit of a worry: I find the 'ridge' on the A7 grip very uncomfortable

A big concern to me as ergonomics are very important - if you don't like handling a camera then you won't use it (unless you are a pro and need to for your job)

Also if this camera contains the same EVF as the A7 then it is final proof that the A7's 'hump' is just a 'fashion statement' and not technically necessary! Maybe the internal flash would have to be removed, but otherwise there is sufficient space for a FF sensor in this body... so why wasn't the A7 housed in a NEX-6 and the A7r in a NEX-7 body?

-- hide signature --

DUMP the HUMP! Campaign for *REAL* NEX replacement bodies
* newly updated ignore list: hostile responses are probably not visible to me

They have a bigger sensor AND a faster shutter.

Correct. Also, just because they use the same OLED doesn't mean they'll have the same lenses in front of it. How sure are we about what is meant when someone says "same EVF"? The whole unit, or just the same OLED display?

-- hide signature --

A7 with kit lens and a number of legacy lenses (mostly Canon FD)

I've asked this a few times and never get a good response. What is the difference in the A7 or A7R vs. NEX-7, 6 or even 5N EVF? The resolution and size specs appear to be the same. Is it brighter or what?

Between the N7 and the A7 I find that the A7 is easier to use. It seems to have a wider sweet spot for proper viewing. With the N7, if my eye was not right in the center, I'd get blurring and rainbow colors on one side of the image. On the A7, the view still gets blurry if I move my eye too far to one side or the other; but I basically have to deliberately move off-center, and, regardless, I haven't seen the rainbow colors phenomenon in this EVF at all.

-- hide signature --

A7 with kit lens and a number of legacy lenses (mostly Canon FD)

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jpr2 Forum Pro • Posts: 15,157
Pat: the most significant, major difference btw. OLED VFs from N7 vs. A7...

PVCdroid wrote:

I've asked this a few times and never get a good response. What is the difference in the A7 or A7R vs. NEX-7, 6 or even 5N EVF? The resolution and size specs appear to be the same. Is it brighter or what?

...lies in their sensors - affecting the quality of the input signal and S/R ratios, which influence  esp. greatly reduced DR in shadows and highlights as rendered by EVFs in general - these are the two most affected areas of poor EVFs performance, as they most easily gave up in both rather dark and very bright scenes with lots of contrast. It suffices to close one's legacy MF lens from, say, f/2.8 to f/8, thus cutting the available light eightfold to witness the adverse effects on N7,

The better eye relief due to somewhat larger optics in newer implementation of the same OLED VF is helping a bit too, but it isn't decisive factor,

jpr2

SQLGuy Veteran Member • Posts: 5,388
Re: Pat: the most significant, major difference btw. OLED VFs from N7 vs. A7...

jpr2 wrote:

PVCdroid wrote:

I've asked this a few times and never get a good response. What is the difference in the A7 or A7R vs. NEX-7, 6 or even 5N EVF? The resolution and size specs appear to be the same. Is it brighter or what?

...lies in their sensors - affecting the quality of the input signal and S/R ratios, which influence esp. greatly reduced DR in shadows and highlights as rendered by EVFs in general - these are the two most affected areas of poor EVFs performance, as they most easily gave up in both rather dark and very bright scenes with lots of contrast. It suffices to close one's legacy MF lens from, say, f/2.8 to f/8, thus cutting the available light eightfold to witness the adverse effects on N7,

The better eye relief due to somewhat larger optics in newer implementation of the same OLED VF is helping a bit too, but it isn't decisive factor,

jpr2

Hmm.. so, you're saying that the A7 EVF looks better because the A7 sensor (24MP FF) is better than the N7 sensor (24MP APS-C)?

So, you're thinking that Sony didn't really need to bother putting better glass in front of the EVF in A7 and just the better sensor would already have made a big difference? I'm not convinced. The lack of the rainbow effect is, for me, a big improvement in the A7, and I can't see how the difference in sensors would have anything to do with that.

Also, what is S/R ratio?

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SQLGuy Veteran Member • Posts: 5,388
Re: Pat: the most significant, major difference btw. OLED VFs from N7 vs. A7...
1

Still need to see the final specs, but SAR is now saying 1.4Mdot for the a6000 EVF. If true, then it's not the same as the A7/A7R/A99, which is 2.4Mdot.

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jpr2 Forum Pro • Posts: 15,157
re: seems someone is rubbishing us big, big way...
1

SQLGuy wrote:

jpr2 wrote:

PVCdroid wrote:

I've asked this a few times and never get a good response. What is the difference in the A7 or A7R vs. NEX-7, 6 or even 5N EVF? The resolution and size specs appear to be the same. Is it brighter or what?

...lies in their sensors - affecting the quality of the input signal and S/R ratios, which influence esp. greatly reduced DR in shadows and highlights as rendered by EVFs in general - these are the two most affected areas of poor EVFs performance, as they most easily gave up in both rather dark and very bright scenes with lots of contrast. It suffices to close one's legacy MF lens from, say, f/2.8 to f/8, thus cutting the available light eightfold to witness the adverse effects on N7,

The better eye relief due to somewhat larger optics in newer implementation of the same OLED VF is helping a bit too, but it isn't decisive factor,

Hmm.. so, you're saying that the A7 EVF looks better because the A7 sensor (24MP FF) is better than the N7 sensor (24MP APS-C)?

So, you're thinking that Sony didn't really need to bother putting better glass in front of the EVF in A7 and just the better sensor would already have made a big difference? I'm not convinced. The lack of the rainbow effect is, for me, a big improvement in the A7, and I can't see how the difference in sensors would have anything to do with that.

Also, what is S/R ratio?

...I-st it was the same EVF as in A7, but now SAR says:

  • "finally got the A6000 EVF and AF info:
    • 1,400K dot EVF;
    • 179 phase detection points (on sensor);
  • and tomorrow morning it might be that all this was just a big load of FUD

but yes, in essence - concerning the previous exchange - it was what I was saying; Just consider that FF 24 Mpx and APS-C 24 Mpx are rather different in their light gathering capabilities

As to S/R - sorry, a typo - should read S/N, of course = my fingers seem to follow their own paths

EDIT: could you pls. tell us more about the "rainbow effect" you've mentioned? Are you perhaps far-sighted, or with some astigmatism?? I didn't ever see any errors which might be attributed as a rainbow in my OLED on N7,

jpr2

saintz Contributing Member • Posts: 551
Re: re: seems someone is rubbishing us big, big way...

jpr2 wrote:

SQLGuy wrote:

So, you're thinking that Sony didn't really need to bother putting better glass in front of the EVF in A7 and just the better sensor would already have made a big difference? I'm not convinced. The lack of the rainbow effect is, for me, a big improvement in the A7, and I can't see how the difference in sensors would have anything to do with that.

EDIT: could you pls. tell us more about the "rainbow effect" you've mentioned? Are you perhaps far-sighted, or with some astigmatism?? I didn't ever see any errors which might be attributed as a rainbow in my OLED on N7,

The non-OLED viewfinders use three color updating. Each pixel represents three different colors at different times. They have a black and white LCD and a multicolor back light. They display the red channel (mask), and then flash a red light, then display the green channel and flash a green light, and then display the blue channel and flash a blue light. The brain merges these three flashes into a single color image. If you turn your eye rapidly, though, the images no longer overlap and you see a rainbow.

OLED viewfinders should use separate pixels for each color. You don't get this effect.

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SQLGuy Veteran Member • Posts: 5,388
Re: re: seems someone is rubbishing us big, big way...

jpr2 wrote:

EDIT: could you pls. tell us more about the "rainbow effect" you've mentioned? Are you perhaps far-sighted, or with some astigmatism?? I didn't ever see any errors which might be attributed as a rainbow in my OLED on N7,

I explained it about as clearly as I could. If I move my eye to the left or right of center with the A7 EVF, the image gets blurry. If I do the same thing (and I don't have to move nearly as far - basically anywhere except dead center), not only does the image get blurry, but the colors get refracted so you get rainbows mixed in the image. I'm not the only one that's seen it, and I'm using the same eyes for the A7 as for the NEX-7. If you're not seeing it, good for you.

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jpr2 Forum Pro • Posts: 15,157
yep: but... we're discussing possible differences between the TWO...

saintz wrote:

jpr2 wrote:

SQLGuy wrote:

So, you're thinking that Sony didn't really need to bother putting better glass in front of the EVF in A7 and just the better sensor would already have made a big difference? I'm not convinced. The lack of the rainbow effect is, for me, a big improvement in the A7, and I can't see how the difference in sensors would have anything to do with that.

EDIT: could you pls. tell us more about the "rainbow effect" you've mentioned? Are you perhaps far-sighted, or with some astigmatism?? I didn't ever see any errors which might be attributed as a rainbow in my OLED on N7,

The non-OLED viewfinders use three color updating. Each pixel represents three different colors at different times. They have a black and white LCD and a multicolor back light. They display the red channel (mask), and then flash a red light, then display the green channel and flash a green light, and then display the blue channel and flash a blue light. The brain merges these three flashes into a single color image. If you turn your eye rapidly, though, the images no longer overlap and you see a rainbow.

OLED viewfinders should use separate pixels for each color. You don't get this effect.

...implementations of [supposedly] the same OLED VF,

jpr2

jpr2 Forum Pro • Posts: 15,157
re: seems someone is rubbishing us big, big way...

SQLGuy wrote:

jpr2 wrote:

EDIT: could you pls. tell us more about the "rainbow effect" you've mentioned? Are you perhaps far-sighted, or with some astigmatism?? I didn't ever see any errors which might be attributed as a rainbow in my OLED on N7,

I explained it about as clearly as I could. If I move my eye to the left or right of center with the A7 EVF, the image gets blurry. If I do the same thing (and I don't have to move nearly as far - basically anywhere except dead center), not only does the image get blurry, but the colors get refracted so you get rainbows mixed in the image. I'm not the only one that's seen it, and I'm using the same eyes for the A7 as for the NEX-7. If you're not seeing it, good for you.

yes, of course - but the questions about possible farsightedness or astigmatisms were not from my idle curiosity, but rather to understand what might be the cause of such obs?

jpr2

SQLGuy Veteran Member • Posts: 5,388
Re: re: seems someone is rubbishing us big, big way...

jpr2 wrote:

SQLGuy wrote:

jpr2 wrote:

EDIT: could you pls. tell us more about the "rainbow effect" you've mentioned? Are you perhaps far-sighted, or with some astigmatism?? I didn't ever see any errors which might be attributed as a rainbow in my OLED on N7,

I explained it about as clearly as I could. If I move my eye to the left or right of center with the A7 EVF, the image gets blurry. If I do the same thing (and I don't have to move nearly as far - basically anywhere except dead center), not only does the image get blurry, but the colors get refracted so you get rainbows mixed in the image. I'm not the only one that's seen it, and I'm using the same eyes for the A7 as for the NEX-7. If you're not seeing it, good for you.

yes, of course - but the questions about possible farsightedness or astigmatisms were not from my idle curiosity, but rather to understand what might be the cause of such obs?

jpr2

Until a couple of years ago I didn't need glasses at all. Now I'm getting old eyes syndrome (46). I use about +1 on the diopter for viewfinders.

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areichow Senior Member • Posts: 1,585
Re: A6000 first picture

Guess all that complaining and fear mongering about an EVF hump was blown way out of proportion, eh guys?

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(Not the renowned photographer, just a pharmacist that likes to take pictures)

Just you wait - someone will explain how the humpless design of the a5000 and a6000 is actually proof that Sony is abandoning the humpless design in favor big and plastic DSLR lookalikes.

They might even be proof that Sony is abandoning APS-C.

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robert1955 Veteran Member • Posts: 3,175
Re: A6000 first picture

Two months could maybe work for a rush job where everything can be grabbed from the parts bin. But even then, most of the cam's specs would already have been decided. We'll never which design studies existed.

PVCdroid wrote:

Two years? Hardly. It's two months max and they have multiple configurations and prototypes for final approval. Look at the A7 teardown.

I did. The disappointing thing was that they did not try to disassemble the top plate, which meant we did not get to see whether the hump was filled or apart from the EVF empty space

The insides are modules forming a brick and placement of the EVF was flexible.
There really wasn't space left to put the intended EVF upper left in combination with the LCD screen; that screen as is, is not even flush with the underside of the camera

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davect01
davect01 Veteran Member • Posts: 7,727
Re: A6000 first picture
2

PVCdroid wrote:

parallaxproblem wrote:

Brian P Smith wrote:

Guess all that complaining and fear mongering about an EVF hump was blown way out of proportion, eh guys?

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(Not the renowned photographer, just a pharmacist that likes to take pictures)

Not yet, we still have to see the camera (and the NEX-7 replacement) released

And how do you know that there wasn't also a DSLR-style option for this camera planned, that got dropped when Sony saw a number (not just me) of people complaining about it?

Dream on, dude. These cameras take 2 years before they are in full production cycle. They were planned for full large scale production long before your nonsensical ranting started on the forum.

Two years? Hardly. It's two months max and they have multiple configurations and prototypes for final approval. Look at the A7 teardown. The insides are modules forming a brick and placement of the EVF was flexible.

Someone's never worked in manufacturing before.

While the two years may be a bit long, it is probably closer to a year.  No WAY you produce a product as complex as a camera in two months.

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davect01
davect01 Veteran Member • Posts: 7,727
Re: A6000 first picture

Looks like a great camera, at a great price.

One more source:

http://www.cameraegg.org/sony-a6000-images-specs/

Hybrid of the 6 and 7, with the step down shutter button of the F3.

While not interested in giving up my 6, I am glad to see the NEX form is not being given up on, (despite the constant rumormongering and "A salesperson at the Sony Store told me" comments).

Just what I thought. An A7 style line and and NEX style line will continue.

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captura Forum Pro • Posts: 23,373
Re: A6000 first picture

quezra wrote:

SAR's one looks much more convincing. No tri-navi

Wrong! This image presented by the OP is exactly the same as the one you are showing here, from SAR. Please compare again!

I really believe this is the new A6000 from Sony.The NEX-6 replacement camera.  We'll know to-night!

Immediately obvious is the shift of the lens barrel close towards the center of the camera, by perhaps 2 cm! Why?

Having a 24 mp sensor with PDAF pixels embedded .... does mean a brand-new sensor from Sony?  And hopefully it will handle wide & rangefinder lenses unlike the previous 24 mp sensor (in the 7.)

Will this A6000 have a plastic body like the old 6 or will it be mostly metal like the 5R/T and 7?

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captura Forum Pro • Posts: 23,373
Re: A6000 first picture

CalvinLayne wrote:

nevercat wrote:

CalvinLayne wrote:

After a few lens switches the black mount is gonna be full of unsightly scratches ugh there goes my planned update.

WOW update from what camera? I see only Canon on your gear list....

Then when you use your camera the only scratches will be on the front of the mount, that is always under the lens you use, so you won't see it. this is the most ridiculous reason not to buy a camera. When you don't like Sony, that is a good reason not to buy it, but the cr@p you tell is not more then funny!

I'd be updating from the nex 5t. I'm rather picky when it comes to camera bodies, I can't stand anodized metal anywhere on the body because of how easy it scratches. If a silver option is available though I'd make an exception since it conceals scratches better. It's a personal thing but I like to resell bodies when I upgrade so keeping it in near mint is second nature to me and anodized parts make it that much harder lol.

Hi. I'd be really interested in your reasons for updating from the NEX-5T.
 Thanks.

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captura Forum Pro • Posts: 23,373
Re: A6000 first picture

This appears to be a direct replacement for the NEX-6. If true, then the next logical step would be a NEX-7 replacement, called an A-7000, maybe coming in the fall.

Is Sony at long last, going in the right direction? Hoping so; they will sell many more of these than all the A7/r cameras by far. Just based on price alone because the majority of buyers will not pay the price of the FF cameras and FE lenses.

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