DP Quattro: Sigma official announcement

Started Feb 10, 2014 | Discussions
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(unknown member) Contributing Member • Posts: 741
DP Quattro: Sigma official announcement
2
(unknown member) OP Contributing Member • Posts: 741
Looks like they got the equivalence wrong

for the new dp2, since the sensor is still a 1.5 crop sensor compared to full frame.

Meaning that the dp2 30mm lens is a 45mm equivalent lens on full frame (and not 28 mm, as it says on the new site).

Kendall Helmstetter Gelner MOD Forum Pro • Posts: 19,456
Some interesting points
1

Just randomly, some really interesting aspects of the specs:

* 14 bit raw file

* Many more color modes (like forest green), also more white balance possibilities

* Raw is 5,424×3,616 but the camera brings back the Super Large JPG concept: 7,680×5,120

* Since DP2 Quattro is only one with a listed weight, probably the first one out?

* Mentions a cable release switch along with USB port

Also, since it's apparently a new sensor design anything goes as far as possible improvements... auto ISO can range up to 6400 so even that might be an indicator.

Really interesting this was not released at CES, but I think that says more about CES than anything else... timing is for CP+  show release.

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Kendall Helmstetter Gelner MOD Forum Pro • Posts: 19,456
I see 45mm

It says 45mm in the list - unless you meant the blurb on a few images, which I think accidentally used the DP1M equivalence.

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(unknown member) OP Contributing Member • Posts: 741
I meant indeed the blurb

Kendall Helmstetter Gelner wrote:

It says 45mm in the list - unless you meant the blurb on a few images, which I think accidentally used the DP1M equivalence.

Hardy Steiner Senior Member • Posts: 2,442
Quattro = ratio 1:1:4 .... ???

So, that's a change: ratio 1:1:4 for the number of red, green, and blue megapixels, respectively.

So does this mean the sensor is more sensitive towards blue? What's the advantage here really in simple words?

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Hardy Steiner Senior Member • Posts: 2,442
Any change in Lens design?

Is the lens design exactly the same as for the old DP2M?

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Kendall Helmstetter Gelner MOD Forum Pro • Posts: 19,456
Seems like much better high ISO support, less detail
1

Hardy Steiner wrote:

So, that's a change: ratio 1:1:4 for the number of red, green, and blue megapixels, respectively.

So does this mean the sensor is more sensitive towards blue? What's the advantage here really in simple words?

To me it seems like the advantage would be much cleaner high ISO images.

Go into any Merrill raw file today, activate monochrome mode in SPP - flip the color wheel between red/green/blue.  Note how blue is usually cleaner.  With this new design, blue would be a bit noisier broken into four sensors, but there's a lot more of them - red & green would be just as clean.

What I'm not sure about yet is what this does for effective detail.  That's quite a lot fewer red/green photosites at work, even with the slightly increased pixel count.  Very interesting.  I thought I remembered there being a patent on this approach at one point so perhaps it's already been discussed.

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ChristianHass Senior Member • Posts: 2,377
Re: Quattro = ratio 1:1:4 .... ???

Hardy Steiner wrote:

So, that's a change: ratio 1:1:4 for the number of red, green, and blue megapixels, respectively.

So does this mean the sensor is more sensitive towards blue? What's the advantage here really in simple words?

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Hardy

Until we actually see images this is guesswork, but by increasing the blue/top layer to 20mp we will get higher resolution.

I'm guessing that the green/middle and red/bottom layers had so much noise in the Merrill sensor than reducing the resolution to 4.9mp and interpolating in the final image has minimal quality loss.

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Kendall Helmstetter Gelner MOD Forum Pro • Posts: 19,456
Specs exactly the same

Since there's no change in specs between the DP2M and the dp2Q, it seems like the lens would be identical.  Which to me is a good thing, that needed no adjustment!

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olimpero Regular Member • Posts: 375
Re: Any change in Lens design?

Hardy Steiner wrote:

Is the lens design exactly the same as for the old DP2M?

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check MTF charts, are the same

Raist3d Forum Pro • Posts: 35,590
Great find! Thanks... reading now. (n/t)
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(unknown member) OP Contributing Member • Posts: 741
Improved signal-to-noise ratio

Hardy Steiner wrote:

So, that's a change: ratio 1:1:4 for the number of red, green, and blue megapixels, respectively.

So does this mean the sensor is more sensitive towards blue? What's the advantage here really in simple words?

by increasing the red and blue pixel size, as compared to the Merrills, and increased resolution by decreasing the blue pixel size, again compared to the Merrills?

We'll have to see.

Hardy Steiner Senior Member • Posts: 2,442
Body size: way longer

While the body looks a bit thinner (apart from the grip), the width is quite different:

Quattro: 161.4mm

DP2M: 121.5mm

Wow, ca. 4 cm more, that is quite a bit, no?

Height is more or less the same.

Depth:

Quattro: 81.6mm

DP2M: 59.2mm

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Hardy Steiner Senior Member • Posts: 2,442
Re: Seems like much better high ISO support, less detail

Yes, I am more interested in the overall detail ... not shooting many high ISO pics. It will be interesting to see the impact of this. On the other hand, work on the high ISO performance had to be done to make the sensor more appealing for the wider audience.

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Raist3d Forum Pro • Posts: 35,590
New sensor tech explained- Foveon X3 Quattro
1

http://www.sigma-global.com/en/cameras/dp-series/technology/#quattro

It's a 19.x megapixel sensor (spatial) so 2 x that is 38-39 MP. Sigma says it's 39 megapixel equivalent so that makes perfect sense (2 x 19.x).

However, they are now interpolating color- the Green and Red layers are 1/4th the resolution, while the Blue keeps the detail layer. Interesting indeed- so they are aiming to decrease the green & red noise layers while the blue which is the first layer and the one that was less prone to noise carries the detail.

For B&W this may be great. For color, I want to see how it looks- it's not X3 anymore like the previous Foveons per photo site, but only for the blue layer. The interpolation should still be better than typical Bayer though.

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Raist3d Forum Pro • Posts: 35,590
Re: Seems like much better high ISO support, less detail

Kendall Helmstetter Gelner wrote:

Hardy Steiner wrote:

So, that's a change: ratio 1:1:4 for the number of red, green, and blue megapixels, respectively.

So does this mean the sensor is more sensitive towards blue? What's the advantage here really in simple words?

To me it seems like the advantage would be much cleaner high ISO images.

Go into any Merrill raw file today, activate monochrome mode in SPP - flip the color wheel between red/green/blue. Note how blue is usually cleaner. With this new design, blue would be a bit noisier broken into four sensors, but there's a lot more of them - red & green would be just as clean.

What I'm not sure about yet is what this does for effective detail. That's quite a lot fewer red/green photosites at work, even with the slightly increased pixel count. Very interesting. I thought I remembered there being a patent on this approach at one point so perhaps it's already been discussed.

This design requires color interpolation to get to the 19.x spatial locations.  But it should still be better than typical Bayer.  For B&W while it would require interpolation for red and green layers, it will be still better approximate to the ideal.

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Hardy Steiner Senior Member • Posts: 2,442
Re: New sensor tech explained- Foveon X3 Quattro

yeah, exactly, it sounds a bit like the original 3 colors per pixel advantage/approach is gone. How this affects real world pics is up to be seen. It will be interesting to compare DP2M pics VS DP2 Quattro.

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rick decker MOD Forum Pro • Posts: 13,802
Re: I see 45mm
Kendall Helmstetter Gelner MOD Forum Pro • Posts: 19,456
Not exactly gone...

Hardy Steiner wrote:

yeah, exactly, it sounds a bit like the original 3 colors per pixel advantage/approach is gone.

Well, not totally gone... since there is some overlap between layers it could be the separate blue layers can help hint how the single red/green layer should be broken out. But note quite as "pure" an approach to be sure.

Although one thing to keep in mind is the sensor is still not filter out out any data, all light still goes into the sensor and gets measured...

How this affects real world pics is up to be seen. It will be interesting to compare DP2M pics VS DP2 Quattro.

That will be really, really interesting and should keep some people occupied for a while! Sort of larger resolution with more interpolation, but less noise... it will probably depend somewhat on what you are shooting and in what light levels.

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