A7/A7R Light leaks reported + White Orbs issue?

Started Feb 8, 2014 | Discussions
OP captura Forum Pro • Posts: 23,701
Re: ongoing discussion about LIGHT LEAKS..

There's a an ongoing discussion about A7/A7r LIGHT LEAKS here at Alpha NEX Cameras.

9 pages.

http://community.sony.com/t5/Alpha-NEX-Cameras/A7-A7R-Light-leaks/td-p/254835

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OP captura Forum Pro • Posts: 23,701
Re: A7/A7R Light leaks reported + White Orbs issue?

Sony’s A7 and A7r cameras are not “completely” dust and moisture resistant?

"This is just pure speculation but it’s possible that the light leak issue discovered on the A7-A7r cameras also affects the dust and moisture protection. And that could be the reason why they “quietly” removed any reference about the A7-A7r having a weather sealed body. But as I said, there is nothing official yet. And if there is really a problem with the weather sealing it would be better for Sony to admit the issue and work on a solution instead of trying to hide it."

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sonys-a7-and-a7r-cameras-are-not-dust-and-moisture-resistant/

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M Dennis Fern Regular Member • Posts: 270
Re: A7/A7R Light leaks reported + White Orbs issue?

New A7r with new FE24-70 mounted (no adapter naturally).  The lens cap was on and I covered the lens with the black vinyl lens case (which has a heavy base on the end).   I took the photo in the sun at 30 seconds with an ISO of 25,600.  Obviously, this is not a one-off problem.  The idea of a home-made fix using gaffer tape on my new camera is not appealing.  Any suggestions?

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Heaven is for real
Heaven is for real Senior Member • Posts: 2,320
Re: A7/A7R Light leaks reported + White Orbs issue?
1

People, do you shoot with body cap on or with a lens? This light leak test with body cap on is beyond me. Of course it is going to leak, it is not as tight as lens on. I tested it this so called "light leak" with my 35 F2.8 and did not get any leak!

Maybe Nex 7 body cap is tighter, so what? Test the leak using lens NOT BODY CAP!

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M Dennis Fern Regular Member • Posts: 270
Re: A7/A7R Light leaks reported + White Orbs issue?

Following advice on the Sony consumer site where the light leak has been well documented, I contacted Sony customer support. All I was told was that they are aware of the problem and their engineers are examining possible solutions. The right response would have been to provide for an exchange for my defective camera with one that isn't defective since apparently not all cameras are afflicted with this problem. Sony demonstrates by its lack of an appropriate response that it does not stand behind its products.  DPReview may well want to reconsider its "Gold" designation.

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Heaven is for real
Heaven is for real Senior Member • Posts: 2,320
Re: A7/A7R Light leaks reported + White Orbs issue?
1

M Dennis Fern wrote:

Following advice on the Sony consumer site where the light leak has been well documented, I contacted Sony customer support. All I was told was that they are aware of the problem and their engineers are examining possible solutions. The right response would have been to provide for an exchange for my defective camera with one that isn't defective since apparently not all cameras are afflicted with this problem. Sony demonstrates by its lack of an appropriate response that it does not stand behind its products. DPReview may well want to reconsider its "Gold" designation.

Yep, they should award it "Platinum"...no leak on mine so yours must be defective!

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bigley Ling Veteran Member • Posts: 3,639
Re: A7/A7R Light leaks reported + White Orbs issue?

Heaven is for real wrote:

People, do you shoot with body cap on or with a lens? This light leak test with body cap on is beyond me. Of course it is going to leak, it is not as tight as lens on. I tested it this so called "light leak" with my 35 F2.8 and did not get any leak!

Maybe Nex 7 body cap is tighter, so what? Test the leak using lens NOT BODY CAP!

even if there is a light leak, is it just as easy to try to find the source of the leak and plug it up??

M Dennis Fern Regular Member • Posts: 270
Re: A7/A7R Light leaks reported + White Orbs issue?

Unfortunately, the problem is real.  See my earlier post where I left some samples of photos taken with my 24-70 FE lens mounted on the camera with the lens cap and the lens case on. The lens case is made of a heavy vinyl material and has a substantial, padded bottom.  The leak, then, is around the flange between the lens and the camera and is evidently in the same place.  This is obviously a manufacturing defect.  Perhaps it was corrected or was only in some batches of the camera since it seems that not all A7s apparently have this defect, only a sufficient number to create a serious problem. Perhaps yours is okay, although you may want to test it out, since this defect has a real world consequence if you take a photo in low light with a timed shutter (I used 30 seconds).

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M Dennis Fern Regular Member • Posts: 270
Re: A7/A7R Light leaks reported + White Orbs issue?

For my part, I'm not going to spend nearly $3,000 for a camera body where I have to plug a light leak with gaffer tape.

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OP captura Forum Pro • Posts: 23,701
Re: A7/A7R Light leaks reported + White Orbs issue?

M Dennis Fern wrote:

Following advice on the Sony consumer site where the light leak has been well documented, I contacted Sony customer support. All I was told was that they are aware of the problem and their engineers are examining possible solutions. The right response would have been to provide for an exchange for my defective camera with one that isn't defective since apparently not all cameras are afflicted with this problem. Sony demonstrates by its lack of an appropriate response that it does not stand behind its products. DPReview may well want to reconsider its "Gold" designation.

Did you experience the issue with one of the FE lenses?

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bigley Ling Veteran Member • Posts: 3,639
Re: A7/A7R Light leaks reported + White Orbs issue?

M Dennis Fern wrote:

For my part, I'm not going to spend nearly $3,000 for a camera body where I have to plug a light leak with gaffer tape.

You are correct there, but I guess if Sony will acknowledge this issue, there maybe a "fix" for this issue in the near future. There is not other Camera manufacturer that has made a product quite like the A7(r), so I guess unless you want to jump ship, if it means using gaffer tape to reduce light leakage and have a near perfect camera, I would take that option.

(unknown member) Veteran Member • Posts: 9,509
White orbs

captura wrote:

=========================================

Re: White Orbs issue now on Sony A7?

- continued from "Problem with Sony A7, reflections on the sensor."

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/53072031

Fuji X10 issue re-visited?

Light leaks I think is very minor and probably applies to most cameras at the extremes people are going to find it.....dark room, 30seconds and iso 25600????

I guess it would not have been as visible on cameras that do not go to iso 25600 in the past...I suspect other cameras will start seeing this soon....when people look.

I find the white orb thing interesting on the other hand.....I have no idea on what causes it but I do think some of what people are seeing (not all) is the light with the orb may not be in focus.

Orbs are VERY easy to see with the A7 EVF with (say) a fast 50mm lens as you look at a light and focus in on it....my Canon 50 1.2L either side of focus has HUGE white globs that greatly diminish with focus....

ferrellmc
ferrellmc Regular Member • Posts: 102
Re: Light Leaks

An easy fix for the light leak is to use a hair tie. Get the Goody ouchless no metal hair elastic. I wrote a short post on it with links and a before/after shot on my blog.

http://beforethecoffee.com/2014/03/03/sony-a7-a7r-light-leaks/

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www.beforethecoffee.com

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bigley Ling Veteran Member • Posts: 3,639
Re: Light Leaks

ferrellmc wrote:

An easy fix for the light leak is to use a hair tie. Get the Goody ouchless no metal hair elastic. I wrote a short post on it with links and a before/after shot on my blog.

http://beforethecoffee.com/2014/03/03/sony-a7-a7r-light-leaks/

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www.beforethecoffee.com

this is a good easy solution to the problem, until Sony recognizes it and applies warranty repair option. I wonder if the NEX series camera have any issues with light leakages like this!!

bigley Ling Veteran Member • Posts: 3,639
no light leaks in my Nex 5r

bigley Ling wrote:

ferrellmc wrote:

An easy fix for the light leak is to use a hair tie. Get the Goody ouchless no metal hair elastic. I wrote a short post on it with links and a before/after shot on my blog.

http://beforethecoffee.com/2014/03/03/sony-a7-a7r-light-leaks/

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www.beforethecoffee.com

this is a good easy solution to the problem, until Sony recognizes it and applies warranty repair option. I wonder if the NEX series camera have any issues with light leakages like this!!

Just did a test with my NEX 5r, and the output is noisy, but there is no light leakage. This is with an EF-NEX speedbooster with an EF lens attached with lens cap on

M Dennis Fern Regular Member • Posts: 270
Re: A7/A7R Light leaks reported + White Orbs issue?

I tested for the leak using a new (3 days old) Sony FE 23-70mm lens and covered the front of the lens to assure that no light was entering through the glass or the front portion.  Since all of the leaks are reported to be in the same location, i.e. the upper right quadrant of the image, which is where it was located in my case, the leak has to be a defect in manufacture of the lens mount on the camera body and not a problem with any part of the lens (or any adapter---I didn't need an adapter anyway).  The light leak is not readily apparent in most normal shooting conditions, it is latent. Nevertheless it is clearly a significant defect that should be responsibly dealt with by Sony and considered serious by ILCE owners and prospective owners.

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OP captura Forum Pro • Posts: 23,701
Re: White orbs

neil holmes wrote:

captura wrote:

=========================================

Re: White Orbs issue now on Sony A7?

- continued from "Problem with Sony A7, reflections on the sensor."

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/53072031

Fuji X10 issue re-visited?

Light leaks I think is very minor and probably applies to most cameras at the extremes people are going to find it.....dark room, 30seconds and iso 25600????

I guess it would not have been as visible on cameras that do not go to iso 25600 in the past...I suspect other cameras will start seeing this soon....when people look.

I find the white orb thing interesting on the other hand.....I have no idea on what causes it but I do think some of what people are seeing (not all) is the light with the orb may not be in focus.

Orbs are VERY easy to see with the A7 EVF with (say) a fast 50mm lens as you look at a light and focus in on it....my Canon 50 1.2L either side of focus has HUGE white globs that greatly diminish with focus....

It became a HUGE issue with the X10 a couple of years ago, Neil. If you examine the examples here you may understand why it became such an issue. People demanding their money back from Fuji, etc. Then there was a firmware update which was supposed to fix it but didn't. Finally Fuji modified the sensor they were using and the orbs went away. I have one of the new ones...damn fine camera now!

http://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2012/03/20/fuji-usa-preps-for-white-orb-fix

http://www.techradar.com/news/photography-video-capture/cameras/fuji-customers-satisfied-by-white-orbs-solution-1073933#null

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GaryW Veteran Member • Posts: 8,541
Re: A7/A7R Light leaks reported + White Orbs issue?
4

M Dennis Fern wrote:

Unfortunately, the problem is real..... Perhaps yours is okay, although you may want to test it out, since this defect has a real world consequence if you take a photo in low light with a timed shutter (I used 30 seconds).

This doesn't sound like a real-world problem, but a very contrived problem. When shooting low-light with a 30 second exposure, how often is a bright light shining directly at the mount (and not into the lens)?

Someone asked the question, how do we know this hasn't been the case for Nex cameras?  I'd also ask, how do we know that this hasn't been the case for other camera brands?  A quick search, and I found this:

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/04/16/Canon-acknowledges-5dii-light-leak

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Gary W.

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_sem_ Veteran Member • Posts: 4,990
Re: A7 No White Orbs issue?

blue_skies wrote:

captura wrote:

Well this guy reported it with his A7, and the question is, was the only one, or are there others, and how many? Strangely the thread was cut short after less than 100 messages: What's going on?

Steve

Steve, that thread is at 150 messaage (149 responses). Threads auto-lock at 150 messages.

Read ProfHandD's response in that thread, as it supports my comments in that same thread:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/53072446

The problem manifests itself by:

  1. High dynamic range of the sensor, making reflections perceptible if
  2. Highlights are dramatic (bright lights on a dark background, sun in frame)
  3. The shot is over-exposed (highlight at, or close to blow-out)
  4. Using a stopped down aperture
  5. Use of short-flange lens (typically WA RF lens)

Remove one or two of these variables and the problem goes away,

The patterned flares are not an innovation of A7/R, although they indeed look prominent.

When shining a flashlight straight to the sensor through the open mount at a certain angle, one can see that the sensor indeed acts like a diffraction grating:

Diffraction-intereference on the GH2 sensor from a LED flashlight

It appears that certain lenses, particularly some of those with short flange distances, are likely to reflect the magnified pattern (maybe just a spectral part of it) back onto the sensor. Particularly when provoked with strong directed beams of light, and when the rest of the image is relatively dark. Patterns of red, green or purple dots have been noticed with many cameras: some mFT cameras with certain lenses; many advanced compacts like RX100, XZ-2, certain Sigmas. The intensity and shape of the pattern varies with both the sensor and the lens (probably different sensor reflectivity at certain wavelengths, different lens coatings). The more expensive the gear involved, the louder the complaints. Though worst cases with huge blobs are found on cellphone cameras. Sample SGS2 flare dance movie:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1pdjLrXAXo

I first thought DSLRs were immune. But with enough torture with a small LED flashlight in a dark room, cross-shaped flares can be noticed sometimes (showing overall interference pattern rather than individual dots), and some lenses (for example Tamron 60/2 macro) show patterns in "regular" flares (maybe from some of the front lens elements, not the rear ones?).

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/42555241

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/42399968

I think the White Orbs of the Fuji X10 are a different phenomenon related to "sensor bleeding" (recall the horrible vertical bleeding of CCD sensors?).

LTZ470
LTZ470 Forum Pro • Posts: 11,926
Re: A7/A7R Light leaks reported + White Orbs issue?

Flange mount on the A7 series is very poor quality, I can easily open the flange by tweaking the lens...

Sad Sony, really sad...

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