Is it me or do all fuji xtrans photos look a little soft?

Started Feb 4, 2014 | Discussions
mdavidp Senior Member • Posts: 2,114
Re: Is it me or do all fuji xtrans photos look a little soft?

They are ready for a bit of sharpening from Raw conversion.

Mike P

http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/9693818496

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Bernie Ess Veteran Member • Posts: 7,066
Re: Is it me or do all fuji xtrans photos look a little soft?
Here is a shot taken with the X-E2, natural light and an awsome Nikkor 105/2.5. How can this possibly be soft?? The Nikkor one of the finest lenses ever made - and it shows!

Isn't it more a shot OF the X-E2 + 105/2,5?

PastorCat
PastorCat Forum Member • Posts: 72
Re: Is it me or do all fuji xtrans photos look a little soft?

Yes, if you look at the studio shots here on DP and compare them to comparable cameras, they do look softer.

However, that appears to be a conscience decision that plays out in how the firmware manages noise. Crank up the ISO in those studio images and you'll see that the Fuji does miracles all the way to 6400.

Just compare the XE-2 on ISO 6400 to the same settings on a Sony A7R, an Olympus OM-D E-M5, and the 5DIII and you'll see what I mean. The XE-2 images are totally usable. The other images are totally not.

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John Gellings Veteran Member • Posts: 4,419
Re: Is it me or do all fuji xtrans photos look a little soft?

narddogg81 wrote:

Jim Cassatt wrote:

A bit of sharpening makes a big difference.

so the fuji shots are just less sharpened coming out of the camera? my main reason for caring is that i print big landscape. 16mp is right at the 'just enough' threshold for my needs, but not if the images are soft to begin with. the sony a7r would kind of be a logical choice, but its way more expensive, i didnt like the way it felt, the lens selection is not there, and i dont trust sony not to get some other idea and just abandon what they are doing

Just pick the right lens, sharpen (and some clarity) and the images will pop.  However, not sure if this is going to do it for you landscape wise... make sure you read up on the xtrans sensor and pp programs.

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hellocrowley Senior Member • Posts: 1,291
Re: Is it me or do all fuji xtrans photos look a little soft?

John Gellings wrote:

narddogg81 wrote:

Jim Cassatt wrote:

A bit of sharpening makes a big difference.

so the fuji shots are just less sharpened coming out of the camera? my main reason for caring is that i print big landscape. 16mp is right at the 'just enough' threshold for my needs, but not if the images are soft to begin with. the sony a7r would kind of be a logical choice, but its way more expensive, i didnt like the way it felt, the lens selection is not there, and i dont trust sony not to get some other idea and just abandon what they are doing

Just pick the right lens, sharpen (and some clarity) and the images will pop. However, not sure if this is going to do it for you landscape wise... make sure you read up on the xtrans sensor and pp programs.

Xtrans JPEG is somewhat soft, that's why it's great for people photography. I'm not entirely satisfied with its landscape results, luckily I don't shoot much landscape.

Keit ll Veteran Member • Posts: 4,313
Re: Is it me or do all fuji xtrans photos look a little soft?
1

PastorCat wrote:

Yes, if you look at the studio shots here on DP and compare them to comparable cameras, they do look softer.

However, that appears to be a conscience decision that plays out in how the firmware manages noise. Crank up the ISO in those studio images and you'll see that the Fuji does miracles all the way to 6400.

Just compare the XE-2 on ISO 6400 to the same settings on a Sony A7R, an Olympus OM-D E-M5, and the 5DIII and you'll see what I mean. The XE-2 images are totally usable. The other images are totally not.

You are implying that Fuji high ISO Jpegs are perfect but they are not. The end results are the product of careful & sophisticated noise reduction but usually at the expense of detail..... An over-smooth image is  , I agree , better than none but they are far from perfect.

ballwin12 Regular Member • Posts: 318
Re: Is it me or do all fuji xtrans photos look a little soft?

narddogg81 wrote:

i really, really want to get one of the new fuji x-t1s to server as a lightweight companion system to my big bulky nikon full frame stuff. it seems to be the camera ive been waiting for, awesome EVF, manual controls, sizable sensor, good lens lineup available, awesome build quality, etc, etc.. but every single sample image i find from the x-t1 or the x-e2 look somewhat soft to me in the infocus areas, which is a bit surprising to me since they dont have the AA filter. Am i just imagining that my FF is producing sharper shots with an AA filter than the fujis are without? is it just a matter of imature demosaicing on the xtrans pattern? Or am i just spoiled by FF?

May be not just you. I'm holding my XE1 and I will not sell it until I feel I really like my next XT-1.

For colors, I think I like them ( XT1), more natural, IMO.

Sharpness, I agree with you that XE1 may be little bit sharper ... as far as I saw samples around here.

But I never had XE2 so this is just my feelings based on internet samples.

Will see XT1.

For current $ discount, XE1 is a bargain, I have to say!

Dpreview's samples are too boring, as always!! Sorry!

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ballwin12 Regular Member • Posts: 318
Re: Not to me..

Travelshooter wrote:

I shoot raw and sharpen in LR5

Then even a $100-camera can be a sharp one ;-))

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LeitzKameraAktion
LeitzKameraAktion Regular Member • Posts: 123
The problem with the X Trans sensor...

... is that it delivers low micro-contrast compared with other cameras. This creates a 'soft' look, and sharpening is only a partial solution. I too noticed this softness when I first got an XE-1, and was a bit disappointed. Comparing it to a DP-2m, the Sigma gave a far crisper rendition of texture, making the Fuji images look flat and bland.

But all is not lost! Try increasing the micro contrast of XE-1 images using the Detail Extractor pre-set in Nik Color Efex Pro. This really makes a difference, enhancing colour detail while revealing subtle textures and contrasts. After processing, XE-1 images rival those from Sigma's Merrill sensor for fine detail and crispness.

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Astrophotographer 10 Forum Pro • Posts: 11,242
Re: Is it me or do all fuji xtrans photos look a little soft?
1

You don't know the incamera settings for noise redcuction, sharpening  and film simulation.

I would be surprised if there were any significant difference between Xpro 1 XE1 XE2 XT2 X100s XM1. Its all the same sensor +/- PDAF pixels. Processor may make a difference in noise reduction in jpegs and some colour depth.

Greg.

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Georg Ucksche New Member • Posts: 15
Re: Is it me or do all fuji xtrans photos look a little soft?

I would be surprised if there were any significant difference between Xpro 1 XE1 XE2 XT2 X100s XM1. Its all the same sensor +/- PDAF pixels. Processor may make a difference in noise reduction in jpegs and some colour depth.

Yes, I also think they have changed the Jpeg formula and NR in order to please the high-ISO- hungry crowd. I definately prefer a crisper look to noise free ISO12000.

Cheers...

Georg

fluxism Contributing Member • Posts: 584
Re: Is it me or do all fuji xtrans photos look a little soft?

since getting my fuji x cameras I've done far less sharpening in post than I ever did with my nikons

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Beat Traveller Contributing Member • Posts: 744
Re: Is it me or do all fuji xtrans photos look a little soft?

Keit ll wrote:

PastorCat wrote:

Yes, if you look at the studio shots here on DP and compare them to comparable cameras, they do look softer.

However, that appears to be a conscience decision that plays out in how the firmware manages noise. Crank up the ISO in those studio images and you'll see that the Fuji does miracles all the way to 6400.

Just compare the XE-2 on ISO 6400 to the same settings on a Sony A7R, an Olympus OM-D E-M5, and the 5DIII and you'll see what I mean. The XE-2 images are totally usable. The other images are totally not.

You are implying that Fuji high ISO Jpegs are perfect but they are not. The end results are the product of careful & sophisticated noise reduction but usually at the expense of detail..... An over-smooth image is , I agree , better than none but they are far from perfect.

He's not implying that they are perfect, but if you don't make large prints all the time where lack of detail or softness would become apparent, then having a less noise is a great tradeoff.

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DonSantos Senior Member • Posts: 1,145
Re: Is it me or do all fuji xtrans photos look a little soft?

Lightroom files are a little soft out of the box so I add some sharpen.

Do you guys think I sharpened this image too much?

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Keit ll Veteran Member • Posts: 4,313
Re: The problem with the X Trans sensor...

LeitzKameraAktion wrote:

... is that it delivers low micro-contrast compared with other cameras. This creates a 'soft' look, and sharpening is only a partial solution. I too noticed this softness when I first got an XE-1, and was a bit disappointed. Comparing it to a DP-2m, the Sigma gave a far crisper rendition of texture, making the Fuji images look flat and bland.

But all is not lost! Try increasing the micro contrast of XE-1 images using the Detail Extractor pre-set in Nik Color Efex Pro. This really makes a difference, enhancing colour detail while revealing subtle textures and contrasts. After processing, XE-1 images rival those from Sigma's Merrill sensor for fine detail and crispness.

That's a useful tip. I guess any camera output has to played with to get the best results

PastorCat
PastorCat Forum Member • Posts: 72
Re: Is it me or do all fuji xtrans photos look a little soft?

Keit ll wrote:

You are implying that Fuji high ISO Jpegs are perfect but they are not. The end results are the product of careful & sophisticated noise reduction but usually at the expense of detail..... An over-smooth image is , I agree , better than none but they are far from perfect.

Friend - the only person that used the word *perfect* was you. I wrote, "compare the XE-2 on ISO 6400 (RAW) to the same settings on a Sony A7R, an Olympus OM-D E-M5, and the 5DIII and you'll see what I mean. The XE-2 images are totally usable. The other images are totally not."

The print screen below demonstrates what I mean. Even the 5DIII shows more color noise than the Fuji - and that's not fan-boy speak, that's just a plain fact. Is there noise reduction applied in the software? I dunno. But for shooting RAW at high ISO, of the three, the Fuji is the better sensor.

Low light/high ISO certainly seems to be what the sensor was tuned for.

As far as sharpness is concerned, remember the lens has a bunch to do with that...as do the sharpness settings applied when the photos were shot...and the settings applied natively in each camera's software...and the developing suite used for each studio set.

Just click here or click on the photo below to see what I mean

"totally usable" (XE-2) and "totally not" (A7R, E-M5, 5DIII)

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deednets Veteran Member • Posts: 8,318
Re: Is it me or do all fuji xtrans photos look a little soft?

Bernie Ess wrote:

Here is a shot taken with the X-E2, natural light and an awsome Nikkor 105/2.5. How can this possibly be soft?? The Nikkor one of the finest lenses ever made - and it shows!

Isn't it more a shot OF the X-E2 + 105/2,5?

Nope, the camera in the picture is an X-E1 with the 105/2.5 mounted, the camera the photo was taken with is the X-E2.

Deed

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Randy Benter
Randy Benter Veteran Member • Posts: 3,196
Re: Is it me or do all fuji xtrans photos look a little soft?

It depends on how the X-Trans image is processed. OOC JPEGs can look a bit soft and Adobe output can look very soft. Perhaps you see many soft X-Trans images because Adobe is still the most popular converter. Other converters do a better job of bringing out the fine details. Here is a crop from the same image processed in Photo Ninja and Adobe. I see significantly more detail in the PN image, especially the foliage and the ropes. Some will say that the LR image just needs a bit more sharpening, but I don't think so; the LR sharpening was already cranked up to 112 for this crop. I have also tried NIK sharpening with Adobe files, but it only made a small difference. If anyone thinks they can use Adobe to extract the same level of details as the PN version, then I would love to see it and know what settings were used.

Soft Adobe Output - Click and view at 100%

Detailed PN Output - Click and view at 100%

The raw image was shared by forum member johanPO in a different thread.

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