CP+ Rumor Roundup.....

Started Feb 4, 2014 | Questions
sgtsween
OP sgtsween Regular Member • Posts: 441
Re: CP+ Rumor Roundup.....

MightyMike wrote:

Why be all high stung about a name... clearly you wouldn't mind owning a Fuji or Sony so why not a Ricoh badged Pentax... sound pretty silly if you ask me!

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Mike from Canada
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That's a good point. I have to say that I have an affinity for Pentax as I've loved the brand for a long time. Sony would be a leap for me (never has any Sony cam or wanted to) but I've been shooting with a Fuji X100 for two years now, so I have a little brand loyalty there as well.

I know it's just a name, but it does mean something to many folks. Realistically, if Ricoh was to rebadge EVERYTHING effectively killing the word Pentax, but kept similar features (WR etc) and the K mount I'd probably stick around but primarily because I don't want to switch systems completely and render all of my k mount lenses useless.

Hopefully this rebadging business is P&S under Ricoh, DSLR/Mirrorless under Pentax.

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miles green
miles green Veteran Member • Posts: 6,295
Re: My guesses

Petroglyph wrote:

James O'Neill wrote:

sgtsween wrote:

So, what does everybody think about the possibility of new product announcements at CP+? So far the only plausible rumor I've seen is the TC. What about the rumored K-60, or the alleged retro K-L? Any new scoop since that great thread on the same topic a week or so ago?

Any new predictions or rumors? A full frame Q? A special edition K-3 in full adamantium? K-02 designed by Jean Paul Gaultier?

TC

Well, it is definitely on the RM. And they don't tell half what is in the camera FW so support could be there anyway.

645D MK II

This one is looking more and more likely Sony is buying up industrial space to make more chips, who buys a lot of Sony chips besides Sony camera division, yep Ricoh and Sony now has 50MP and 60MP in 44X33 chip, yes that is Pentax 645D size.

i might be wrong, but i believe the current lens support full-frame 645?

the new phase one 44x33 chip is 50 mpx CMOS, capable of iso 6400 and LV. (i think: i read quickly as i'm not about to buy one, unfortunately).

Full frame, under glass with no ship date.

Photokina IMO

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Miles Green
Pentaxian with chronic LBA
Corfu, Greece

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miles green
miles green Veteran Member • Posts: 6,295
Re: My number one hope is for the Sigma 18-35mm to be announced available for sale in k-mount.

paulkienitz wrote:

asahi man wrote:

TC is ready and works perfect,good quality,needs no firmware update,cause all IDs are in the TC.

Wait, does this mean that the new TC will work electronically only with known Pentax lenses, and will act like an old dumb converter if you mount a third-party lens on it?

So,no change for old converters.

Figures. This the sort of thing that an unauthorized firmware hack would be good for.

The "hack" should be inside the chip of the third-party lens...

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Miles Green
Pentaxian with chronic LBA
Corfu, Greece

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awaldram
awaldram Forum Pro • Posts: 12,920
Re: My number one hope is for the Sigma 18-35mm to be announced available for sale in k-mount.
2

miles green wrote:

paulkienitz wrote:

asahi man wrote:

TC is ready and works perfect,good quality,needs no firmware update,cause all IDs are in the TC.

Wait, does this mean that the new TC will work electronically only with known Pentax lenses, and will act like an old dumb converter if you mount a third-party lens on it?

So,no change for old converters.

Figures. This the sort of thing that an unauthorized firmware hack would be good for.

The "hack" should be inside the chip of the third-party lens...

Mmm could be a real can of worms.

If what Asahi man says this time is true then many 3rd party lens that 'clone' valid Pentax Id's will really screw up on it.

Could potentially back fire on Ricoh as far as customer relations go.

A converter that has been 6 year in the promise and then is a crutch half baked solution.!

Irrelevant of the moralistic viewpoint (3rd party and royalty payments) Ricohs customers will not appreciate a crippled solution.

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Miles Green
Pentaxian with chronic LBA
Corfu, Greece

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MightyMike Forum Pro • Posts: 37,043
Re: My guesses

Yes all the 645 lenses support the original 645 image circle

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Mike from Canada
"I am not a great photographer! God is a great creator! All I do is capture His creation with the tools He has provided me."
'I like to think so far outside the box that it would require a telephoto lens just to see the box!' ~ 'My Quote :)'
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awaldram
awaldram Forum Pro • Posts: 12,920
Re: My number one hope is for the Sigma 18-35mm to be announced available for sale in k-mount.

asahi man wrote:

If your lens is using the correct ID,so it is no problem to use the new converter;-)

No 3rd party lenses 'use the correct ID'

Pentax does not give ID away and 3rd parties will not pay for them.

Hence all 3rd parties are 'borrowed' ID's

So Ricoh's new Converter will not work for 50-60% of all lenses used on Pentax cameras if what you say is true.

This seems likely to cause much angst, complaint and rejection of this convert 'unfit for purpose' rather than screams of joy

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MightyMike Forum Pro • Posts: 37,043
Re: My number one hope is for the Sigma 18-35mm to be announced available for sale in k-mount.
1

awaldram wrote:

asahi man wrote:

If your lens is using the correct ID,so it is no problem to use the new converter;-)

No 3rd party lenses 'use the correct ID'

Pentax does not give ID away and 3rd parties will not pay for them.

Hence all 3rd parties are 'borrowed' ID's

So Ricoh's new Converter will not work for 50-60% of all lenses used on Pentax cameras if what you say is true.

This seems likely to cause much angst, complaint and rejection of this convert 'unfit for purpose' rather than screams of joy

I think you're making a big stink out of nothing, what is not to work? The lens provides the camera with its FL, one assumes the TC alters the FL and therefore SR will be on par with the FL. Honestly with my testing its better to have the SR a little weaker than par with the focal length if you want more SR stops at long FLs. Its not likely AF will change, 90% of third party lenses are still screw drive, screw drive TC's still work fine, one would assume Pentax did the SDM correctly too so nothing to fail there. about the only area where things might fail is the in lens corrections but they don't even exist for third party lenses. so correct ID or not what what will go wrong that isn't already wrong before the TC is available?

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Mike from Canada
"I am not a great photographer! God is a great creator! All I do is capture His creation with the tools He has provided me."
'I like to think so far outside the box that it would require a telephoto lens just to see the box!' ~ 'My Quote :)'
http://www.michaelfastphotography.com/galleries/VP-BDI_3a.jpg
http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?sort_order=views%20DESC&first_this_page=0&page_limit=180&&emailsearch=mighty_mike88%40hotmail.com&thumbnails=

Russell Evans Forum Pro • Posts: 12,414
Re: My number one hope is for the Sigma 18-35mm to be announced available for sale in k-mount.

MightyMike wrote:

awaldram wrote:

asahi man wrote:

If your lens is using the correct ID,so it is no problem to use the new converter;-)

No 3rd party lenses 'use the correct ID'

Pentax does not give ID away and 3rd parties will not pay for them.

Hence all 3rd parties are 'borrowed' ID's

So Ricoh's new Converter will not work for 50-60% of all lenses used on Pentax cameras if what you say is true.

This seems likely to cause much angst, complaint and rejection of this convert 'unfit for purpose' rather than screams of joy

I think you're making a big stink out of nothing, what is not to work? The lens provides the camera with its FL, one assumes the TC alters the FL and therefore SR will be on par with the FL. Honestly with my testing its better to have the SR a little weaker than par with the focal length if you want more SR stops at long FLs. Its not likely AF will change, 90% of third party lenses are still screw drive, screw drive TC's still work fine, one would assume Pentax did the SDM correctly too so nothing to fail there. about the only area where things might fail is the in lens corrections but they don't even exist for third party lenses. so correct ID or not what what will go wrong that isn't already wrong before the TC is available?

There is also the possibility of Pentax releasing lens specific firmware. With the SDM lens firmware hack, we now know the SDM lenses have their own firmware as well. Sony did lens firmware updates for the Nex series lenses, so it's not like it is something unknown to happen.

Thank you
Russell

Cane Veteran Member • Posts: 6,900
Re: CP+ Rumor Roundup.....

Does anybody want anything here other than tele converters and long lenses?

leopold Forum Pro • Posts: 14,083
Cane
1

Cane wrote:

Does anybody want anything here other than tele converters and long lenses?

It's because they are really missing in the line-up of Pentax which shouldn't be missing .

Sure faste lenses like f/1.8 are also missing but there was the FA Limited and the DA*55mm for that.

I would want a DA* 200mm Macro also

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paulkienitz
paulkienitz Veteran Member • Posts: 5,266
Re: My number one hope is for the Sigma 18-35mm to be announced available for sale in k-mount.

MightyMike wrote:

I think you're making a big stink out of nothing, what is not to work? The lens provides the camera with its FL, one assumes the TC alters the FL and therefore SR will be on par with the FL. Honestly with my testing its better to have the SR a little weaker than par with the focal length if you want more SR stops at long FLs. Its not likely AF will change, 90% of third party lenses are still screw drive, screw drive TC's still work fine, one would assume Pentax did the SDM correctly too so nothing to fail there. about the only area where things might fail is the in lens corrections but they don't even exist for third party lenses. so correct ID or not what what will go wrong that isn't already wrong before the TC is available?

The main problem with an unchipped TC isn't antishake or distortion correction, it's accurate autofocus.  Phase detect autofocus works by measuring a focus error and precalculating how far to move the lens to correct it.  Then, if necessary, it can do a second finer correction once that movement is complete.  But the main large correction is handled not by a process of moving it until it gets sharp (like contrast-detect), but by judging in advance how far it has to be moved.  With a TC on, this estimation is thrown way off.  This is why autofocusing with a TC often involves a lot of hunting, and/or prefocusing manually to get it pretty close, before it'll work.

Presumably the new one will clear this problem right up with DA* lenses, but with third-party lenses it won't be able to, so with them, the autofocus will still hunt a lot.

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"A good photograph is knowing where to stand." -- Ansel

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MightyMike Forum Pro • Posts: 37,043
Re: My number one hope is for the Sigma 18-35mm to be announced available for sale in k-mount.

paulkienitz wrote:

MightyMike wrote:

I think you're making a big stink out of nothing, what is not to work? The lens provides the camera with its FL, one assumes the TC alters the FL and therefore SR will be on par with the FL. Honestly with my testing its better to have the SR a little weaker than par with the focal length if you want more SR stops at long FLs. Its not likely AF will change, 90% of third party lenses are still screw drive, screw drive TC's still work fine, one would assume Pentax did the SDM correctly too so nothing to fail there. about the only area where things might fail is the in lens corrections but they don't even exist for third party lenses. so correct ID or not what what will go wrong that isn't already wrong before the TC is available?

The main problem with an unchipped TC isn't antishake or distortion correction, it's accurate autofocus. Phase detect autofocus works by measuring a focus error and precalculating how far to move the lens to correct it. Then, if necessary, it can do a second finer correction once that movement is complete. But the main large correction is handled not by a process of moving it until it gets sharp (like contrast-detect), but by judging in advance how far it has to be moved. With a TC on, this estimation is thrown way off. This is why autofocusing with a TC often involves a lot of hunting, and/or prefocusing manually to get it pretty close, before it'll work.

Presumably the new one will clear this problem right up with DA* lenses, but with third-party lenses it won't be able to, so with them, the autofocus will still hunt a lot.

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"A good photograph is knowing where to stand." -- Ansel

You're right and wrong... much of the hunting is due to lost contrast and altered spherical aberrations... TC's are essentially supposed to be focally corrected to infinity, if not you couldn't achieve infinity focus of proper close focus. TC's are therefore focus neutral... if your assertion was correct then all TC's for Pentax would fail, clearly there are plenty of us on the forum that have demonstrated over and over that is not the case. I've never had hunting unless the light level was low, the contrast was low on the subject or the combination of TC and lens didn't work well. Slow focusing comes with screw driven TC's as there is a gearing mechanism in them of 1:2 or 1:2.5 depending on the converter.

So if you're getting hunting and bad focus then its not the TC, nor the camera or the lens, its the combination, TC's don't throw any estimation way off.

-- hide signature --

Mike from Canada
"I am not a great photographer! God is a great creator! All I do is capture His creation with the tools He has provided me."
'I like to think so far outside the box that it would require a telephoto lens just to see the box!' ~ 'My Quote :)'
http://www.michaelfastphotography.com/galleries/VP-BDI_3a.jpg
http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?sort_order=views%20DESC&first_this_page=0&page_limit=180&&emailsearch=mighty_mike88%40hotmail.com&thumbnails=

yardcoyote Senior Member • Posts: 8,743
Re: CP+ Rumor Roundup.....

I want something different. I want a 55mm Limited-- you know, small and light, screw drive, with a modest maximum aperture.  No one can convince me that there isn't a sizable gap in the Limited range between 43mm and 70mm, and the DA*55mm is a very different kind of lens.  I just want to replace my much loved everyday film lens, the M 85mm f/2.

Note that I don't believe this is going to happen, though I do have some modest hope that a new or revised "nifty fifty" may eventually arrive to accompany the rumored FF camera. I would buy one of those so fast it would make your collective heads spin.

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cheddargav Veteran Member • Posts: 4,493
Re: fast 35mm equivalent...
2

Does anybody want anything here other than tele converters and long lenses?

Pentax is really missing something quite obvious as far as I can see: a 35mm equivalent wide apertured lens. The 23 f3.2 needs to have a faster big brother. 35mm has become huge (again) lately. Look at the Fuji 23 1.4 as a "prime" example of what I think is missing here.
Tbh, it's what stops me considering the K3, which is a shame because that camera appears to kick a...
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Michael Perham Senior Member • Posts: 1,349
Re: fast 35mm equivalent...
1

cheddargav wrote:

Pentax is really missing something quite obvious as far as I can see: a 35mm equivalent wide apertured lens. The 23 f3.2 needs to have a faster big brother. 35mm has become huge (again) lately. Look at the Fuji 23 1.4 as a "prime" example of what I think is missing here.
Tbh, it's what stops me considering the K3, which is a shame because that camera appears to kick a...
--
www.twitter.com/gavphotography

I have the Fuji X100s which has a 23mm f2.0 lens. I find the Fuji a great camera for event photography etc.,  so I would endorse a good 23 f1.4 in a K mount ...very useful focal length.

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paulkienitz
paulkienitz Veteran Member • Posts: 5,266
Re: My number one hope is for the Sigma 18-35mm to be announced available for sale in k-mount.

MightyMike wrote:

paulkienitz wrote:

MightyMike wrote:

I think you're making a big stink out of nothing, what is not to work? The lens provides the camera with its FL, one assumes the TC alters the FL and therefore SR will be on par with the FL. Honestly with my testing its better to have the SR a little weaker than par with the focal length if you want more SR stops at long FLs. Its not likely AF will change, 90% of third party lenses are still screw drive, screw drive TC's still work fine, one would assume Pentax did the SDM correctly too so nothing to fail there. about the only area where things might fail is the in lens corrections but they don't even exist for third party lenses. so correct ID or not what what will go wrong that isn't already wrong before the TC is available?

The main problem with an unchipped TC isn't antishake or distortion correction, it's accurate autofocus. Phase detect autofocus works by measuring a focus error and precalculating how far to move the lens to correct it. Then, if necessary, it can do a second finer correction once that movement is complete. But the main large correction is handled not by a process of moving it until it gets sharp (like contrast-detect), but by judging in advance how far it has to be moved. With a TC on, this estimation is thrown way off. This is why autofocusing with a TC often involves a lot of hunting, and/or prefocusing manually to get it pretty close, before it'll work.

Presumably the new one will clear this problem right up with DA* lenses, but with third-party lenses it won't be able to, so with them, the autofocus will still hunt a lot.

-- hide signature --

"A good photograph is knowing where to stand." -- Ansel

You're right and wrong... much of the hunting is due to lost contrast and altered spherical aberrations... TC's are essentially supposed to be focally corrected to infinity, if not you couldn't achieve infinity focus of proper close focus. TC's are therefore focus neutral... if your assertion was correct then all TC's for Pentax would fail, clearly there are plenty of us on the forum that have demonstrated over and over that is not the case. I've never had hunting unless the light level was low, the contrast was low on the subject or the combination of TC and lens didn't work well. Slow focusing comes with screw driven TC's as there is a gearing mechanism in them of 1:2 or 1:2.5 depending on the converter.

So if you're getting hunting and bad focus then its not the TC, nor the camera or the lens, its the combination, TC's don't throw any estimation way off.

Don't TCs sometimes change the minimum focus distance?

-- hide signature --

"A good photograph is knowing where to stand." -- Ansel

 paulkienitz's gear list:paulkienitz's gear list
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paulkienitz
paulkienitz Veteran Member • Posts: 5,266
Re: fast 35mm equivalent...
1

Michael Perham wrote:

cheddargav wrote:

Pentax is really missing something quite obvious as far as I can see: a 35mm equivalent wide apertured lens. The 23 f3.2 needs to have a faster big brother. 35mm has become huge (again) lately. Look at the Fuji 23 1.4 as a "prime" example of what I think is missing here.
Tbh, it's what stops me considering the K3, which is a shame because that camera appears to kick a...
--
www.twitter.com/gavphotography

I have the Fuji X100s which has a 23mm f2.0 lens. I find the Fuji a great camera for event photography etc., so I would endorse a good 23 f1.4 in a K mount ...very useful focal length.

Yeah, many of us have been asking for something like a 24/2 for years now.

-- hide signature --

"A good photograph is knowing where to stand." -- Ansel

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MightyMike Forum Pro • Posts: 37,043
Re: My number one hope is for the Sigma 18-35mm to be announced available for sale in k-mount.

paulkienitz wrote:

Don't TCs sometimes change the minimum focus distance?

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"A good photograph is knowing where to stand." -- Ansel

In the case of the 1.7x AFA yes but that is because it allows for a focus range

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Mike from Canada
"I am not a great photographer! God is a great creator! All I do is capture His creation with the tools He has provided me."
'I like to think so far outside the box that it would require a telephoto lens just to see the box!' ~ 'My Quote :)'
http://www.michaelfastphotography.com/galleries/VP-BDI_3a.jpg
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MightyMike Forum Pro • Posts: 37,043
Re: fast 35mm equivalent...
1

paulkienitz wrote:

Michael Perham wrote:

cheddargav wrote:

Pentax is really missing something quite obvious as far as I can see: a 35mm equivalent wide apertured lens. The 23 f3.2 needs to have a faster big brother. 35mm has become huge (again) lately. Look at the Fuji 23 1.4 as a "prime" example of what I think is missing here.
Tbh, it's what stops me considering the K3, which is a shame because that camera appears to kick a...
--
www.twitter.com/gavphotography

I have the Fuji X100s which has a 23mm f2.0 lens. I find the Fuji a great camera for event photography etc., so I would endorse a good 23 f1.4 in a K mount ...very useful focal length.

Yeah, many of us have been asking for something like a 24/2 for years now.

-- hide signature --

"A good photograph is knowing where to stand." -- Ansel

There are 2 easily available for the system (FA*24mm F2.0 and Sigma 24mm F1.8), sure one is on the used market but if you can't afford either then what makes you think you can afford a new one.

-- hide signature --

Mike from Canada
"I am not a great photographer! God is a great creator! All I do is capture His creation with the tools He has provided me."
'I like to think so far outside the box that it would require a telephoto lens just to see the box!' ~ 'My Quote :)'
http://www.michaelfastphotography.com/galleries/VP-BDI_3a.jpg
http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?sort_order=views%20DESC&first_this_page=0&page_limit=180&&emailsearch=mighty_mike88%40hotmail.com&thumbnails=

Chris Mak Senior Member • Posts: 1,808
Re: fast 35mm equivalent...

MightyMike wrote:

paulkienitz wrote:

Michael Perham wrote:

cheddargav wrote:

Pentax is really missing something quite obvious as far as I can see: a 35mm equivalent wide apertured lens. The 23 f3.2 needs to have a faster big brother. 35mm has become huge (again) lately. Look at the Fuji 23 1.4 as a "prime" example of what I think is missing here.
Tbh, it's what stops me considering the K3, which is a shame because that camera appears to kick a...
--
www.twitter.com/gavphotography

I have the Fuji X100s which has a 23mm f2.0 lens. I find the Fuji a great camera for event photography etc., so I would endorse a good 23 f1.4 in a K mount ...very useful focal length.

Yeah, many of us have been asking for something like a 24/2 for years now.

-- hide signature --

"A good photograph is knowing where to stand." -- Ansel

There are 2 easily available for the system (FA*24mm F2.0 and Sigma 24mm F1.8), sure one is on the used market but if you can't afford either then what makes you think you can afford a new one.

Still, not everyone wants to venture into the used market for lenses, with all the possible hassle to deal with. My approach, has been to go for the Zeiss ZK lenses while they were still available, the 28/2 and the 35/2 as wide, fast options, and wait for the Pentax FF, although it is now most likely going to be the Sony A7 with the cosina made matching adapter. This really only illustrates that there are holes in the Pentax lens offerings. I do have to say though, that I would personally not want a 24/2 apsc option, but greatly prefer 35/2 FF.

So I would say that Pentax has to build a new lens catalogue based on FF, because that is where fast wide primes are in demand

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Pentax K-3 Sony Alpha a7R II Carl Zeiss Distagon T* 2/25 Pentax HD DA 560mm F5.6 ED AW Zeiss Loxia 35
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