Dear Canon, please say something!

Started Feb 4, 2014 | Discussions
David Hull
David Hull Veteran Member • Posts: 6,023
Re: time to come back to planet Earth

John_A_G wrote:

David Hull wrote:

John_A_G wrote:

RedFox88 wrote:

DVT80111 wrote:

Not too many people will pay $1500 for a 70D with a larger and heavier magnesium body.

People lined up to pay $1700 when the 7D came out. For whatever the 70D "gained", the 7D2 will gain even more. Probably the 1-series AF, 10 fps.

Unlikely. Why in God's name would Canon want to do that? The AF system is the great hold-back for Canon - always has been. They want people to buy full frame. Such a camera would be too great an impact to the 5dIII and 1dx. You're dreamin if you think Canon is going to give you an APS-C 1dx for less than half the cost of the actual 1dx.

I get you would LIKE them to do that. But, past behavior from Canon says that's just a pipe dream.

This is pretty much what they all said about the 5DIII. Canon will never give up the AF, that is their hold back for the traditional 10 pound brick.

The D700 forced their hand. But, people tend to forget the 5dIII sells for what the 1d used to sell for.

However they di do it and put a price on it to match. I can see them doing this for the 7D as well. Pro camera at a pro price, and unfortunately, if they do that, everyone will bellyache about it.

If the price matches - yes. I think people expect that in an $1800 body. If Canon charges $3500 for the body then yes you will get it.

I would expect that thing to come in at $1800.  But then, I expected to see the 5DIII at around $3000 so what do I know

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(unknown member) Veteran Member • Posts: 4,624
Re: Dear Canon, please say something! just like Nikon

Joe Pa wrote:

Bajerunner wrote:

bruxi wrote:

It makes no sense to reveal what they are doing, and it makes no sense to reveal what they are not doing.

Quite a symbiotic relationship, just like Nikon with the D300 update (NOT).

Well, hopefully the Pentax K-3 and Fuji ST-1 will spur them on a bit....

Not likely, Fuji and Pentax have nice systems but they aren't threats to Nikon and Canon.

Maybe in volume you are right, but I have already seen two Nikon users on these forums alone, buying K-3's for their wildlife stuff, reason given = no D400.

(unknown member) Senior Member • Posts: 2,853
Grow up.
4

Ugh, these posts are awful.  Go buy a camera if you need one.  If you don't, shut your trap.  Nobody talks about ideas they are developing because the backlash would be even worse than this kind of nonsense.  The reason for the "long, frustrating silence" is because only they know what they are up to, and if that means you switching one day and then switching back the next then so be it.  Whining children throwing a hissy fit about what they want and deserve and how unfair it all is don't get attention from smart parents, only the dumb ones.

Howard wrote:

Let me say, I know there are a few people here on this and other forums who won't tolerate any criticism of Canon, that I am not an "eager upgrader" at all. In fact, both my DSLRs are obsolete models (5D II and 50D), and they are both still capable tools.

However, I have been waiting for the successor to the 7D for some time now. A better sensor (higher pixel density, better high ISO performance) and probably better AF will make it a dream machine for bird and wildlife photographers.

I find Canon's silence regarding the development (or lack there of) of this model deafening. I mean, if Canon is to discontinue this line, then say that. If they have a plan for it to come out, then tell us. Why this long, frustrating silence?

John_A_G Veteran Member • Posts: 7,614
Re: Dear Canon, please say something! just like Nikon

Bajerunner wrote:


Not likely, Fuji and Pentax have nice systems but they aren't threats to Nikon and Canon.

Maybe in volume you are right, but I have already seen two Nikon users on these forums alone, buying K-3's for their wildlife stuff, reason given = no D400.

wow, 2 is a statistically significant number.  The truth of the matter is, people switch brands every year for myriad reasons.  Now, if your statistically significant value of 2 gets 4 or 5 zeroes after it, then that will cause Canon or Nikon to change their behavior.

Of course, one might also try the other side of the ledger - how many people in Pentax bought Nikon or Canon or Sony because Pentax doesn't offer full frame?

I'm not ripping on Pentax - they make great products.  What I'm ripping on is the notion that minor amounts of switching in brands is going to affect behavior from ANY of the manufacturers.

Now, when Nikon came out with the D300, D3/s and D700 that really hit Canon and there really were a lot of defectors.  We saw the 7d, 1dx 5dIII as a result.

Unfortunately, you're not going to see a huge amount of defectors just yet to Pentax because they don't have the top notch glass with AF capability in the telephoto and super-tele range to really get people to jump - which is what we saw when Nikon released their cameras.  They had a robust sports/wildlife lens collection and people readily jumped.

elfroggio
MOD elfroggio Senior Member • Posts: 2,878
Re: Grow up.
2

howardroark wrote:

Ugh, these posts are awful. Go buy a camera if you need one. If you don't, shut your trap. Nobody talks about ideas they are developing because the backlash would be even worse than this kind of nonsense.

Relax

  1. It's not good for the blood pressure. I do some meditation and losing weight seems to work for me
  2. You do not have to participate in the awful, or even read these postings...
  3. Before buying a camera, I ask myself the question: "Is the camera better than I am a photographer or am I better photographer than the camera?" and I've found that it makes a huge difference in my decision process.
Howard
OP Howard Senior Member • Posts: 1,856
^^ you need to; you need to learn that people have different opinions than yours
2

grow up indeed

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Howard
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(unknown member) Veteran Member • Posts: 4,624
Re: Dear Canon, please say something! just like Nikon

John_A_G wrote:

Bajerunner wrote:

Not likely, Fuji and Pentax have nice systems but they aren't threats to Nikon and Canon.

Maybe in volume you are right, but I have already seen two Nikon users on these forums alone, buying K-3's for their wildlife stuff, reason given = no D400.

wow, 2 is a statistically significant number. The truth of the matter is, people switch brands every year for myriad reasons. Now, if your statistically significant value of 2 gets 4 or 5 zeroes after it, then that will cause Canon or Nikon to change their behavior.

Of course, one might also try the other side of the ledger - how many people in Pentax bought Nikon or Canon or Sony because Pentax doesn't offer full frame?

I'm not ripping on Pentax - they make great products. What I'm ripping on is the notion that minor amounts of switching in brands is going to affect behavior from ANY of the manufacturers.

Now, when Nikon came out with the D300, D3/s and D700 that really hit Canon and there really were a lot of defectors. We saw the 7d, 1dx 5dIII as a result.

Unfortunately, you're not going to see a huge amount of defectors just yet to Pentax because they don't have the top notch glass with AF capability in the telephoto and super-tele range to really get people to jump - which is what we saw when Nikon released their cameras. They had a robust sports/wildlife lens collection and people readily jumped.

Fair enough.... the point is two out of the few here... but nonetheless, point taken, albeit, more are discussing the K-3 option and doing testing, of the few who actually comment in the relevant forums.

I guess we will know in a year or two... depending...  

If Nikon and Canon do not update the D300 / 7D, I know where my bet is on.

Cheers.

seragram Regular Member • Posts: 201
All that it will have..... But....

Would it have dual card slots?

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David Hull
David Hull Veteran Member • Posts: 6,023
Re: D400 after 7D2

altair8800 wrote:

golfgti2012 wrote:

when nikon release D400, 7D2 will also be released.

Those waiting for D400 say it will be after 7D2 is released. I think they are right.

I don't think either of them has any influence on the other.  I suspect that Canon already has the 7DII designed and is in field testing with it.  If Nikon comes up with a D400, they are not going to run out and change it.

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Joe Pa Senior Member • Posts: 1,839
Re: Dear Canon, please say something! just like Nikon

Bajerunner wrote:

Fair enough.... the point is two out of the few here... but nonetheless, point taken, albeit, more are discussing the K-3 option and doing testing, of the few who actually comment in the relevant forums.

I guess we will know in a year or two... depending...

If Nikon and Canon do not update the D300 / 7D, I know where my bet is on.

Cheers.

Don't bet on Pentax against Canon and Nikon, it's a suckers bet.  It's all about the glass, and people aren't going to start over for the K-3.  Some impatient types may buy the K-3 to fill the void until Canon and Nikon release the D400 / 7DII, but they aren't switching systems.

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RedFox88 Forum Pro • Posts: 28,254
Re: time to come back to planet Earth
2

John_A_G wrote:

RedFox88 wrote:

DVT80111 wrote:

Not too many people will pay $1500 for a 70D with a larger and heavier magnesium body.

People lined up to pay $1700 when the 7D came out. For whatever the 70D "gained", the 7D2 will gain even more. Probably the 1-series AF, 10 fps.

Unlikely. Why in God's name would Canon want to do that? The AF system is the great hold-back for Canon - always has been.

Wake up dude, and see what Canon's done.  Put the 1-series AF in the 5D3, put the 7D AF in the 70D, 60D AF in the T4i/T5i.  See a pattern here?  Canon is understanding improvements and innovations are flattening out so they have to let features slip down into lower models.

They want people to buy full frame.

They want people to buy cameras and lenses.  That's what Canon wants!

RedFox88 Forum Pro • Posts: 28,254
Re: time to come back to planet Earth

Bernie_King wrote:

At this level they're more worried about losing sales to Nikon, and considering Nikon puts it's high end AF at this level, they will have to as well.

Actually nikon put their 51 pt AF in a step below the 7D/d300 into the d7100 (same as 70D).

Rexgig0 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,010
Re: All that it will have..... But...

I have stated many times I prefer dual memory card slot, and that remains my preference, but a user-friendly way of transmitting files to a second device would lessen the need to save the files to a second card within the camera. (This does not mean I demand in-built wi-fi; a pro-quality add-on device may be quite acceptable, if designed well.)

Personally, I am quite happy with my pair of 7D cameras, so do not mind being patient. I would rather the 7D's successor be a great step forward, rather than an incremental one. AF technology from the 6D, 5D3, and 1DX would be good to see, as would in-built Speedlite RT capability. (The 6D may not be seen as an AF leader, but keep in mind that the 6D's central AF point is very capable in low light, perhaps still state-of-the-art.)

If the 7D's successor is a mere incremental step forward, I may well concentrate on finding a pre-owned, gently-treated 1D Mark III or IV, or hold what I have, and continue upgrading in the directions of flashguns and lenses.

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John_A_G Veteran Member • Posts: 7,614
Re: time to come back to planet Earth

RedFox88 wrote:


They want people to buy cameras and lenses. That's what Canon wants!

They want to maximize profits like any good business.  They prefer people buy products with higher profit margins if possible.  They could easily have released the camera you are asking for but haven't.  Why?  Because the more profitable 6d and 5dIII are doing well and there is no competition pushing them to release the 7dII.  You confuse what you WANT Canon to do with what is a good business decision.

If you are a 7d owner in need of a new body, are you going to leave Canon out of spite and buy all new lenses in another system?  Or, are you going to buy either the less costly 70d or higher margin 5dIII?

Again, did we see Canon put 45 or 51 point focus in the 70d?  No, we didn't.  That's not how Canon behaves.

It would be great if Canon were to do as you want them to but as a businessman who does a lot of cost-benefit analysis for projects I really don't see the rationale behind doing so.  Unless they plan on releasing a $3000-3500 body keeping the price point up.

fishy wishy
fishy wishy Veteran Member • Posts: 7,686
Re: D400 after 7D2

David Hull wrote:
I suspect that Canon already has the 7DII designed and is in field testing with it. If Nikon comes up with a D400, they are not going to run out and change it.

If it were up to me I would keep my engineers occupied with such eventualities that might never happen, to be on the safe side. Somewhere in Canon they have probably prototyped and costed a true 7D successor scavenged from other technology in their line to have it on the shelves in six months from the time of a "D400" announcement. But nobody's moving first, presumably because they both prefer higher margin products.

Jerry-astro
Jerry-astro Forum Pro • Posts: 10,567
Sorry, not buying it
1

mikero wrote:

Or to put it another way...

No 7DII, so probably no D400.

In the meantime, little by little, people migrate to FF with higher margins for both Canon and Nikon, and the opportunity to sell a shed load of L glass.

Do you have any data to back that?  At any given price point, FF will be more costly and yield lower margins than a roughly equivalent crop camera.  People tend to target price points and buy the best they can at those price points.  As it stands, the FF option at anywhere even close to the likely (guessed, projected... pick whatever word works best for you) price for the 7DmK2 is the 6D.  I can't speak for others but in no way is that an upgrade path for me and likely anyone else interested in shooting birds, sports, or other similar subjects.

So, are you suggesting that people are readily willing to jump another $500-750, let's say, for a future FF camera more suitable for nature, sports, or other photography that is so nicely suited to crop?  Well, I'm not and I'm not seeing Canon bringing down the 5DMk3 functionality to a 6D price point anytime soon.  And if they do, that won't be a margin play, that's for sure.

FF isn't the best alternative for everything and the 7D has already proved that there remains a market for a richly featured crop camera.  I don't share the vision so forcefully pushed here by many that FF is the inevitable future, at least for a few years, and maybe quite a few.  YMMV.

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John_A_G Veteran Member • Posts: 7,614
Re: Sorry, not buying it

Jerry-astro wrote:

mikero wrote:

Or to put it another way...

No 7DII, so probably no D400.

In the meantime, little by little, people migrate to FF with higher margins for both Canon and Nikon, and the opportunity to sell a shed load of L glass.

Do you have any data to back that? At any given price point, FF will be more costly and yield lower margins

Yes - that is why you do not see full frame cameras with comparable specs to an APS-C camera priced the same as the aps-c camera.

than a roughly equivalent crop camera. People tend to target price points and buy the best they can at those price points.

I disagree with that.  People buy based on perceived value.  They bought higher MP cameras and paid more for them than they wanted because they perceive it will get them a better result.

Same with full frame.  People will pay more for a full frame because they perceive it will give them better results.

Whether or not any of these perceptions are reality for a given buy is debatable.  But price point is hardly the deciding point - especially when someone is buying their second camera.

mikero Contributing Member • Posts: 601
Re: Sorry, not buying it
1

I have one bit of evidence, and only one.  After waiting for two years to upgrade my 50D with a 7DII, and it not appearing, I bought the 5DIII, and don't regret it one bit.  And I use it for birding.

I also had to replace my EF-S zoom with an EF zoom, and I will need to find a wide angle solution some time.

So yes, by not offering me the body I originally wanted, Canon have sold a more expensive body, an expensive lens, with no doubt more to come.  They've made a lot more money out of me by not releasing a 7DII than they would if it were on the shelves.

Nikon are no doubt following the same.  The fact there is no D400 either cannot be a coincidence, can it?

Mike

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Joe Pa Senior Member • Posts: 1,839
Re: Sorry, not buying it

People get way too emotional when it comes to these discussions.  We can argue / debate all we want but Canon will release a 7DII if and when they believe there's a reason to do so.  It will have the sensor and features they deem it should based on input from their marketing team.

I personally doubt it will be FF, as I think Canon still want a links a crop sensor in their pro line.  Canon seems to be pushing out a number of EF-S lenses and people aren't going to invest much in them if the road ends at the X0D (IMO).  As I said previously, I will be totally shocked if it's MSRP isn't $1999 or higher, I'm thinking $2499 with a kit lens.

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(unknown member) Senior Member • Posts: 2,853
Here's the trick:
3

When it is your opinion that your opinion is the right one, or that complaining about how the world doesn't revolve around you, then you're going to be told to shut your trap by most of the people in the room who can spot the error in your logic.

Waste of time and space, and the post was useless too.

Howard wrote:

grow up indeed

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