choosing between X-T1 and Sony A7

Started Feb 1, 2014 | Discussions
Astrophotographer 10 Forum Pro • Posts: 10,688
Re: choosing between X-T1 and Sony A7

Of course Eric any of those lenses can equally be good on the XT1 now Fuji has fixed the focus peaking system (to be proven in real world reviews though -n the existing focus peaking is a fail).

In fact many will do better as APSc is less demanding of the lens. However you lose a fair bit of foield of view and you lose a lot of that fast speed so F1.4 legacy on Fuji is really only F2.8 compared to FF. I guess that also means an F2.8 on the XT1 will be equivalent to an F4 on the A7. Something like that anyway. See the other thread about F1.4 on the XT1 was more like F2.2 to F2.8 on a full frame with side by side photos to show it.

Again it boils down to APSc versus full frame and whether you buy into the APSc Fuji is FF quality.

Having both I don't agree with that marketing claim. Fuji APSc is superb but FF is noticeably better.

Greg.

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Donny out of Element here Contributing Member • Posts: 996
Re: choosing between X-T1 and Sony A7
1

Mike in Kansas wrote:

There should be no doubt that the X-T1 will win DPR gold award, as well as many other accolades.

Let's be honest here. We all are very excited about X-T1 and it has some very good features like large EVF and finally some descent tracking AF. However, do not hold your breath, old NEX-7 is still going to beat in pure IQ at lower ISO's. No contest there (and NEX-7 debuted back in 2011). It still has 24Mp and is still best APS-C camera when IQ is main goal (at low ISO). Now in 2014(!) where competition is tough we still have 16Mp (basically same old sensor) and that IMHO will be main issue for X-T1. Simply put dynamic range and resolution are basically same as many other 16Mp APS-C cameras out there. Now if Fuji comes out with new 20-24Mp sensor in X-Pro2 or X-T2 with better DR - then it will be a step forward. So far in terms of sensor specs we are dancing around same spot. Nevertheless X-T1 is a great camera for everything else besides sensor.

wy2lam Veteran Member • Posts: 3,195
Re: choosing between X-T1 and Sony A7
2

Donny out of Element here wrote:

Mike in Kansas wrote:

There should be no doubt that the X-T1 will win DPR gold award, as well as many other accolades.

Let's be honest here. We all are very excited about X-T1 and it has some very good features like large EVF and finally some descent tracking AF. However, do not hold your breath, old NEX-7 is still going to beat in pure IQ at lower ISO's. No contest there (and NEX-7 debuted back in 2011). It still has 24Mp and is still best APS-C camera when IQ is main goal (at low ISO). Now in 2014(!) where competition is tough we still have 16Mp (basically same old sensor) and that IMHO will be main issue for X-T1. Simply put dynamic range and resolution are basically same as many other 16Mp APS-C cameras out there. Now if Fuji comes out with new 20-24Mp sensor in X-Pro2 or X-T2 with better DR - then it will be a step forward. So far in terms of sensor specs we are dancing around same spot. Nevertheless X-T1 is a great camera for everything else besides sensor.

With IQ as the main goal, you should not compare the sensor alone.

Use both cameras and compare your keeper rate.

It also has much to do with ergonomics, processing, shutter speed, lens speed and selection, etc.

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Arn
OP Arn Veteran Member • Posts: 3,582
Re: choosing between X-T1 and Sony A7
1

wy2lam wrote:

Donny out of Element here wrote:

Mike in Kansas wrote:

There should be no doubt that the X-T1 will win DPR gold award, as well as many other accolades.

Let's be honest here. We all are very excited about X-T1 and it has some very good features like large EVF and finally some descent tracking AF. However, do not hold your breath, old NEX-7 is still going to beat in pure IQ at lower ISO's. No contest there (and NEX-7 debuted back in 2011). It still has 24Mp and is still best APS-C camera when IQ is main goal (at low ISO). Now in 2014(!) where competition is tough we still have 16Mp (basically same old sensor) and that IMHO will be main issue for X-T1. Simply put dynamic range and resolution are basically same as many other 16Mp APS-C cameras out there. Now if Fuji comes out with new 20-24Mp sensor in X-Pro2 or X-T2 with better DR - then it will be a step forward. So far in terms of sensor specs we are dancing around same spot. Nevertheless X-T1 is a great camera for everything else besides sensor.

With IQ as the main goal, you should not compare the sensor alone.

Use both cameras and compare your keeper rate.

It also has much to do with ergonomics, processing, shutter speed, lens speed and selection, etc.

I absolutely agree. These things are too often forgotten, because it's harder to do direct (numerical) comparison, especially about ergonomics in reviews. And good handling for one might be terrible for another, so it's definitely a personal thing. So yes, one shouldn't just stare at pixels and noise. Personal experience on the handling of the camera is crucial. (edit: noticed a typo

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Hwirt Forum Member • Posts: 81
Re: choosing between X-T1 and Sony A7

The sample pictures posted on DPREVIEW don't look that impressive, sharpness looks soft, shadow detail is a bit lacking and colors appear dull. The general impression is that the images just don't pop or convey a three dimensional effect. Perhaps the lens and or the JPG engine are to blame so I'll reserve final judgment until some raw processed images with prime lenses are posted. As it stands the A7/7r images, both JPG and raw are much better.

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Astrophotographer 10 Forum Pro • Posts: 10,688
Re: Avoid A7, it has a broken sensor
1

Yes more false data about the A7r on this site. Wow. Some are so happy to make data up.

A7r does not exhibit this problem that I have seen. One poster showed an extremely minor version of this problem out of 1000 photos that did not.

The issue with the A7 is probably blown out of proportion. Its not ideal for sure but I think its not that common a problem.

Greg.

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Astrophotographer 10 Forum Pro • Posts: 10,688
Re: choosing between X-T1 and Sony A7

Of course you are right but I gotta say when changing the lenses on my XE1 after changing lenses on my A7r that APSc sensor sure seems small!

Greg.

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Astrophotographer 10 Forum Pro • Posts: 10,688
Re: choosing between X-T1 and Sony A7

Funny, it must be subjective as I thought they were rather good, super sharp, lovely detail, good colour.

Part of it comes down to settings. If you use Velvia film simulation you get lovely vivid colours if that is your preference (it often is mine too).

In my opinion images from A7/r or XT1 are both going to be spectacular. I have loved using my XE1 the last year.

But I find I prefer the output of the A7r. Its even more spectacular.

Hey, size does matter!

Greg.

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Astrophotographer 10 Forum Pro • Posts: 10,688
Re: Lenses

Yeah it took me about 2 seconds. They are remakably similar in menu and operation. I prefer the ergonomics of the Sony for me (placement of dials, ease of changing ISO, manual focus is easier, easier to magnify view, change shutter speed without removing your eye from the EVF).

XT1 should be much closer in this regards due to the improved EVF and nice displays and manual focus aids. In fact it may well be the leader in ergnomics over just about any camera. That's one of Fuji's strengths - the tactile involvement of the photographer into the process of taking the image - they do it so well.

Greg.

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MrGubrz
MrGubrz Senior Member • Posts: 1,306
Re: choosing between X-T1 and Sony A7

i went to buy the a7, played with it in store... and handed it back happily.  my finger kept trying to take a picture using the front dial instead of the shutter button.  silly.. but if my finger cant find the shutter, its not going to work for me, lol.  it just felt like it was in an awkward spot.  im a m43/rx1/x100 fan.  if i dipped into apsc id only consider fuji. i love my x100, love the external dedicated dials, i love the old sensor, and ive seen good things from the new ones.  id worry about af speed on either sony or fuji systems tho.  im spoiled by the m43 cams. between the two, fuji.  if travels important, the sony lenses will still be ff sized.  just on itty bitty bodies. which, yes, decreases overall system size, but the fuji seems a better balance between iq and overall size

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Astrophotographer 10 Forum Pro • Posts: 10,688
Re: choosing between X-T1 and Sony A7

I have XE1 and A7r. Why? Do I need both - no. But I had a D800e and XE1. The XE1 took over quickly as its so handy with the smaller size.

When the Sony A7r came out I thought this was perfect for me. A D800e but small like my beloved XE1. Its worked out pretty well and it has replaced my D800e. IQ is much the same with minor preferences one way and the other. But A7r matches the D800e in the important areas. IQ is similar. I prefer the Sony colour to the D800e and prefer the Sony white balance engine. Less fiddle with the Sony compared to the D800e and can be a sophisticated semi pro camera or pretty much a high end point and shoot with intelligent auto. Not so with the D800e where I would constantly adjust everything to get it right to get the shot. I found that a bit tiresome. Sony has a bit more contrast and detail but seems a little noisier as a price. D800e was a bit cleaner and a bit more neutral and slightly less contrast but it really is simply the engineers tastes here.

XE1 is a classic camera and has definitely served me well. So well that I can see another Fuji X camera in my future. I was set on XT1. But I am now starting to get cold feet with the reality setting in its the same as the XE1 with faster AF and a better EVF and faster processor and IQ will be almost identical. XPro 2 is likely to be a huge step up. I probably will still get XT1 but I guess I have to keep in mind it will most likely plummet in value when XPro 2 is announced and I will want Xpro 2 over the XT1. So it could be very transient in that regard.

Greg.

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Daniel Lauring
Daniel Lauring Veteran Member • Posts: 9,342
Re: choosing between X-T1 and Sony A7

wy2lam wrote:

Donny out of Element here wrote:

Mike in Kansas wrote:

There should be no doubt that the X-T1 will win DPR gold award, as well as many other accolades.

Let's be honest here. We all are very excited about X-T1 and it has some very good features like large EVF and finally some descent tracking AF. However, do not hold your breath, old NEX-7 is still going to beat in pure IQ at lower ISO's. No contest there (and NEX-7 debuted back in 2011). It still has 24Mp and is still best APS-C camera when IQ is main goal (at low ISO). Now in 2014(!) where competition is tough we still have 16Mp (basically same old sensor) and that IMHO will be main issue for X-T1. Simply put dynamic range and resolution are basically same as many other 16Mp APS-C cameras out there. Now if Fuji comes out with new 20-24Mp sensor in X-Pro2 or X-T2 with better DR - then it will be a step forward. So far in terms of sensor specs we are dancing around same spot. Nevertheless X-T1 is a great camera for everything else besides sensor.

With IQ as the main goal, you should not compare the sensor alone.

Use both cameras and compare your keeper rate.

It also has much to do with ergonomics, processing, shutter speed, lens speed and selection, etc.

Agreed.  I'm waiting to see true focus performance.  That is going to be the decision point for me.  Right now, I leave the XE-2 home on occasions, in favor of the lower IQ E-M1, because it can actually track subjects somewhat reliably.

CraigArnold Contributing Member • Posts: 697
Re: choosing between X-T1 and Sony A7

To start with I have an X100, loved it from the start and still do today.

I decided to get rid of Canon 5D2 & lenses for weight saving, etc.

I was all set on the X-E2, and I am sure it would have equalled or even slightly surpassed the 5D2 in IQ for my shooting, but when I tried it out I just didn't like it. I particularly hated the EVF. I was quite upset because I expected to love it.

I tried the OMD-EM1, and that was impressive in every way except sensor size, and although with the great lenses it would have got very close to or equalled my Canon gear I wasn't totally convinced.

Finally I chose the A7R because it already had the two most important lenses for me: a compact 35 and a short tele for portraits (55 f1.8 is more than enough tele for me).

The main reason behind this was that I do sometimes like (need) to make very large prints. And although I don't really love the camera's ergonomics I find it quite pleasant to use and contrary to expectations pretty well set up out of the box. IQ wjith the A7R and Zeiss lenses has not disappointed at all, quite the opposite - it's been everything I hoped for, a huge step up from my Canon gear.

If the X-T1 had been available on the day I went to buy the X-E2 I would almost certainly have switched to Fujifilm totally and never have gone down the Sony route. If I could have a do-over knowing what I know now, and looking at the prints I'm getting, I think the A7R would still be my choice.

I wasn't tempted at all by the A7, I would rather have gone for the X-Pro1, and certainly now the X-T1.

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Fujitsu New Member • Posts: 2
Re: choosing between X-T1 and Sony A7

I was reading your concern and it is exactly what I was wondering about. A7 or X-T1. After so many webpages read, opinions etc,. I was kind of sure that Sony is the right choice. Then, some users report difficulties operating A7. Also what they complainis that almost always needs a tripod for the good image. Hend held gives blur. Then they mention problems focusing, etc... I stopped reading and almost then decided to buy Fuji. Then I went to web pages offering photos taken with both under different circumstances with all kinds of lenses from bottom to high end ones. I took a look at ISO samples of both. The noise is more visible on Fuji at Hig iso, but in general for my eye it gives a sharper image even then. Grainy only at iso 25000 and above. Which we all barely ever need...
Fuji has that old photo feel when you look at the samples. Sony has perhaps stronger a bit more vivid colors. And obviously a full frame with bugs, said by other Sony users. So, it pushed me away so fast.
At the start I was so sure I will buy Sony. now after many readings, and photo samples judgement, I will buy Fuji X-T1. Can't wait for March

rockygag Senior Member • Posts: 1,250
Re: The lenses for FF ML could be smaller than SLR's

You are right .... look at the Voigtlander line of primes for slr cameras ....Very tiny lenses.   It's the AF/IS that makes them big!

M-4/3 primes show the sensor size relationship, the have AF, and are in the same size class as LM, however, only cover the smaller sensor with all the attendant equivalency arguments.

Lenses for the A7 will always be bigger/heavier!

Dave

carlk Forum Pro • Posts: 15,940
Re: choosing between X-T1 and Sony A7

Just want to add noise should not be a concern for either cameras when you (have to) shoot on tripod.

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PrebenR Veteran Member • Posts: 3,529
Re: choosing between X-T1 and Sony A7

For the record: I don't have a Fuji or Sony camera Well my 4 year old daughter have a Fuji F31fd camera, but that should not count

I would not buy a 1st gen Sony camera that is quite experimental. Would wait for 2nd gen if you still consider it. On the other hand, the X-T1 doesn't seem to show much improvement from the other Fuji X cameras. I mean IQ wise. Qute retro, but do one really use the controls in 2014?

I'd wait for X-Pro2 or some such if I was you.

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Fujitsu New Member • Posts: 2
Re: choosing between X-T1 and Sony A7

But then we can wait for few years for maybe third generation, just to make sure..? LOL
I am fine with X type IQ. What I like about X-T1 is body looks, weather and dust proof, and a newer generation APC x sensor and developed better, is what defines XT1.
Sony does need deffinetely second generation if those bugs are truth. No matter how nice IQ they produce. Thats why Fuji probably didn't go full frame yet on any mirrorless to avoid problems.

John M Roberts Senior Member • Posts: 2,509
Re: choosing between X-T1 and Sony A7

Astrophotographer 10 wrote:

I have XE1 and A7r. Why? Do I need both - no. But I had a D800e and XE1. The XE1 took over quickly as its so handy with the smaller size.

When the Sony A7r came out I thought this was perfect for me. A D800e but small like my beloved XE1. Its worked out pretty well and it has replaced my D800e. IQ is much the same with minor preferences one way and the other. But A7r matches the D800e in the important areas. IQ is similar. I prefer the Sony colour to the D800e and prefer the Sony white balance engine. Less fiddle with the Sony compared to the D800e and can be a sophisticated semi pro camera or pretty much a high end point and shoot with intelligent auto. Not so with the D800e where I would constantly adjust everything to get it right to get the shot. I found that a bit tiresome. Sony has a bit more contrast and detail but seems a little noisier as a price. D800e was a bit cleaner and a bit more neutral and slightly less contrast but it really is simply the engineers tastes here.

XE1 is a classic camera and has definitely served me well. So well that I can see another Fuji X camera in my future. I was set on XT1. But I am now starting to get cold feet with the reality setting in its the same as the XE1 with faster AF and a better EVF and faster processor and IQ will be almost identical. XPro 2 is likely to be a huge step up. I probably will still get XT1 but I guess I have to keep in mind it will most likely plummet in value when XPro 2 is announced and I will want Xpro 2 over the XT1. So it could be very transient in that regard.

Greg.

Thanks for sharing your view and experience. I see you appreciate the smaller and lighter option enough so to moving away from the D800e. I'm curious as to what lenses you are using with the Sony, being FF do the lenses negate that advantage somewhat? The Fuji really does the trick for me as far as size, weight and compactness. Just the function gives me frustration. The X-T1 being weatherized pleases me but no lenses yet to complement that. For that reason and hearing what you expressed and what you own, I'd wait and skip that one unless the lenses appear shortly.

Astrophotographer 10 Forum Pro • Posts: 10,688
Re: choosing between X-T1 and Sony A7

I imagine full frame for Fuji is some way off. It would be a considerable expense to setup a new line of lenses. I wonder if they have started that process already with these new weather sealed lenses. Some seem quite large. Is that because they are no making them able to handle full frame and just haven't mentioned that yet?

What is a bummer here is that Fuji XF lenses or Sony FE lenses do not work on each others body.

XT1 will be a sensational camera. XPRo 2 is likely to be revolutionary.

Greg.

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