choosing between X-T1 and Sony A7

Started Feb 1, 2014 | Discussions
travelinbri_74
travelinbri_74 Veteran Member • Posts: 3,102
Re: choosing between X-T1 and Sony A7

I'd wait to see how the XT1 autofocuses, the sony autofocus was a killer for me, love the sony form factor (although I actually love the Fuji form factor more) and can deal with limited lenses - if they are good (which the 35 and 55 are) - but the AF was way too slow. However, do was the AF on the XE-1 so let's see how the XT1 does.
TBri

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flbrit Veteran Member • Posts: 4,256
Your priorities are the ones that count..... for me, I'd consider....
1

the long term commitment shown by both companies. I am a long term Nikon DSLR shooter and a recent convert to the Fujifilm X (E1) and now E2 system which I shoot in addition to my Nikon DSLR stuff.

Both companies produce very capable products but for me, Fuji have shown a longer term commitment to their system compared to Sony who seem to sparkle, then on to the next great thing. (imho).

So pick your poison depending on your on going budget and desires.....

Brian

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Macintosh Sauce
Macintosh Sauce Contributing Member • Posts: 706
Re: Your priorities are the ones that count..... for me, I'd consider....

That's the same impression I get about Sony. I'm kind of leery investing my money in a company that does that.

Fujifilm, from everything I've read online, is a company that actually cares about their products and their customers. They strive for continual improvement, as evidenced by the firmware they release for their cameras/lenses. Plus, I love that they actually publish a lens roadmap, so you can plan out your lens purchases more easily.

I am buying my first digital ILC. Yep. Shot film (Fujifilm) and then moved to a digital P&S. Time to step up to a real camera. This is why I'm going to get the X-T1. Initially, I was going to get the X-E2, but the X-T1 is what I've wanted in a mirrorless camera.

So, I'm jumping into the Fujifilm camp after evaluating Micro 4/3, FF, and other APS-C cameras. Can't wait to get the X-T1!

Westmill
Westmill Senior Member • Posts: 2,106
Re: Your priorities are the ones that count..... for me, I'd consider....

Macintosh Sauce wrote:

That's the same impression I get about Sony. I'm kind of leery investing my money in a company that does that.

Fujifilm, from everything I've read online, is a company that actually cares about their products and their customers. They strive for continual improvement, as evidenced by the firmware they release for their cameras/lenses. Plus, I love that they actually publish a lens roadmap, so you can plan out your lens purchases more easily.

I am buying my first digital ILC. Yep. Shot film (Fujifilm) and then moved to a digital P&S. Time to step up to a real camera. This is why I'm going to get the X-T1. Initially, I was going to get the X-E2, but the X-T1 is what I've wanted in a mirrorless camera.

So, I'm jumping into the Fujifilm camp after evaluating Micro 4/3, FF, and other APS-C cameras. Can't wait to get the X-T1!

I can not help but agree totally here. Fujis commitment to improving even there older models is truly a breath of fresh air. I bought the E1 when it first appeared. Yet it is now twice the camera it once was. Far Far more than just ironing out bugs. The E1 has been vastly improved over time. The other thing that stands out above all others is what a sheer joy it is to use. I have had many great cameras over the years but when it comes to nothing but sheer pleasure then there has been nothing that comes close to using the Fuji. All its faults seem to have no meaning once you start using it for what its made for. Taking great images !  

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Absolutic
Absolutic Veteran Member • Posts: 5,423
Re: choosing between X-T1 and Sony A7

the 55/1.8 reviews for a Sony Zeiss, all of the sudden, made many people previously dismissing the Sony, to start looking at it again.    that and a 36MP A7r that is being sold used already for $2K (it took D800 about 2 years to get to that mark used).   Sounds good right.

Here is my analysis.   After trying it each way, I know I like my lenses to have AF.   I just do.   So far Sony came out with 28-70 which is a failure according to all reviews (Someone above me wrote all Sony lenses are Oh LA LA.   Well the 28-70 is no Oh LA LA).    So the 55 is great.   Excellent.

Do you shoot any portraits?  I do, a lot.    Today if you grab a Sony, do they have any fast AF lens in 85-135mm focal lengths?   Zero.    With Fuji at least you have 60/2.4, and the end of 18-55/ at 4, and 56/1.2 is coming soon.

AF speed.  Are you a street shooter?  The consensus seems to suggest that Fuji AF on current bodies is significantly better.   Perhaps Sony will make AF better on future bodies as well.

For me, Sony needs to show a serious commitment to actually release SEVERAL quality lenses before I start looking their way.   55 is a nice start I agree.

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a l b e r t Senior Member • Posts: 1,604
Avoid A7, it has a broken sensor
2

See this thread:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3613281

Not only you get sensor reflections on third party lenses, but it also manifests on the Sony 24-70 ZA OSS lens as well.

Seems to me Sony rushed the camera out the door without thorough testing.

Fuji replaced all X10 sensors with the orb problem.  I doubted Sony will do the same.

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kewlguy
kewlguy Senior Member • Posts: 1,943
as much as I love A7 concept
1

I can't stand Sony color and 'cooked' RAW. Hate that shutter noise, too.

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arbuz Senior Member • Posts: 2,247
Re: No good choice

Astrophotographer 10 wrote:

15. Sony has an erratic history with products in cameras. Fuji seems focused and determined to make the best.

So far Sony supports all it's users. It's siply has many product lines but none has been discontinued. Fuji has history with S5/3pro, but at least they used nikon lenses so no hard feelings. The point is that mirrorless market is very competitive. Fuji enters boldly esp. with good lens selection. But will they build volume on that so that x-system will survive (it will not on 1.4 glass only, that's icing on cake)? Sony is better brand and has better experience in consumer products and nex cameras gained a lot of popularity. Let's see. I agrre that the most sensible thing is to stay with dslr and watch. I didn't

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arbuz Senior Member • Posts: 2,247
Re: choosing between X-T1 and Sony A7
1

Westmill wrote:

I could be wrong here, but I am sure I seem to remember reading that the Sony can only shoot JPG or lossy compressed RAW ?

No one knows if it is lossy. Files are smaller thank nikon using the same sensor but quality is not worse. In the end if the difference cannot be determined and quality does not suffer then who cares? Quality is still better than Fuji;-)

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gerard boulanger Senior Member • Posts: 2,262
Re: choosing between X-T1 and Sony A7
1

Arn wrote:

distinct points on X-T1

  • direct controls with buttons and wheels, which I much prefer over menu settings.
  • I like that the wheels have locking buttons (I simply hate it with my 7D/5DII, that the wheels constantly rotate when I take the camera out of the bag). Now, I believe that A7 is not as bad as big DSLRs, which are in tight contact with the camera bag's walls, but the X-T1's solution is just perfect.
  • fast and good quality 35mm equivalent 23mm/1.4
  • pretty good quality kit zoom 18-55/2.8-4
  • also available the 56mm f/1.2 (equivalent to ~85/1.8), wide angle primes, wide angle zooms, telezooms, etc etc. All quite high quality.

distinct points on A7

  • better contrast, sharpness, noise from sensor than X-T1
  • Faster at ~50mm and better DOF control with the 55/1.8, but not with other lenses. FE 55/1.8 and X-mount 23/1.4 are equally expensice
  • overpriced 24-70 zoom and sadly not offered as a kit, people seem to say the 28-70/3.5-5.6 is not a very good lens
  • limited lens selection (just 35/2.8, 55/1.8, 28-70/3.5-5.6, 24-70/4 that does not sell as a kit and costs $1200) , more lenses coming in 1-2 years... wonder about the pricing.
  • slow and pretty expensive 35/2.8 (though the Fuji 23/1.4 is even a bit more expensive)

I actually wonder if the FE mount will ever get faster lenses than the Fujifilm X-mount and at the same time keep the lenses compact and lightweight (and reasonably priced). After all, Fuji already has fast quality lenses: 23/1.4 (~35/2.1), 35/1.4 (~52/2.1), 56/1.2 (~85/1.8). Sony FE only has the 55/1.8, which admittedly is faster than the Fuji's 35/1.8 (but only slightly) and from the testes I've seen so far produces better image quality. But there it ends at the moment.

So, the way it looks to me, the X-T1 will be probably the nicer camera to shoot with, giving a more intuitive shooting experience and the A7 will give better image quality in good light. The lack of a fast AF 35mm on FE pains me the most. It seems that in low light, Fuji's fast primes even out the sensor size advantage of the A7. Am I right or utterly mistaken? I'm keen to hear opinions. If you even managed to read this far, you have my respect.

I am biased, let face it. I like to have direct access to controls like the X family bodies, been more with the X-T1. The "PSAM" dial on the A7 is not my cup of tea.

The relatively small size of the A7/r is impressive, however fast and good lenses are obviously going to be large, heavy.

So...

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svx94 Senior Member • Posts: 2,289
Camera vs. Electronics
1

I was considering NEX 6 vs. X-E1, and the Sony feel too much of a electronics, plus the heavy handed JPG processing.  If you want the FF's DoF, then a7 is the one to go.  For people like me, I don't see great benefit of my FF outcome from my D700 compare with X-E1. I also think the Fuji has better lenses.

I guess FF will have to go for FF eventually.

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Chetan Agasthya New Member • Posts: 18
Re: choosing between X-T1 and Sony A7

Arn wrote:

I posted this also to a thread on the Sony forum, but I want to hear both sides of the story, so naturally I am also post here to hear your opinions.

I've recently gotten tired of lugging DSLR gear around and I'm intent on getting a compact mirrorless camera system that can be considered a true photographer's tool and can provide good image quality. Travel photogprahy is a high priority. I always shoot RAW. Video is something I rarely do. I only use AF lenses.

I already have an APS-C system - the Samsung NX20 with 10mm fisheye, 12-24/4.5-5.6, 30/2 (pancake), 45/1.8, 18-55/3.5-5.6 which are all pretty good quality. But I want to compliment that system with another system that has higher overall quality (mechanical and image quality) and faster lenses. My biggest gripe with Samsung NX is, is that it doesn't have a fast 35mm equivalent lens.

So, I'm trying to choose between the full frame Sony A7 and Fujifilm X-T1. Can't see much other choise than these two... (no, I absolutely do not consider micro43 a choise and I will not get the NEX-7 or 6). The X-T1 provides the best image quality from an APS-C sensor (though not as good as a FF sensor) and Fujifilm has the best lens selection with fastest primes.

My favourite single focal length is 35mm, though I shoot with anything from 15mm-300mm.

The problem with the A7 is, that I want a camera that I can fully use right now (or within the next 3 months). The only fast lens that Sony has on FE-mount, is the 55/1.8 (though it is a very high quality lens, though costs around $1000). At 35mm there is only 35/2.8 which is nicely compact (120g), but undeniably slow. In comparison, Fuji has the 23/1.4 (equivalent to ~ 35mm f/2.1) which is faster and can produce a more shallow DOF than the A7 with it's FF sensor, though it is a bit heavier.

distinct points on X-T1

  • direct controls with buttons and wheels, which I much prefer over menu settings.
  • I like that the wheels have locking buttons (I simply hate it with my 7D/5DII, that the wheels constantly rotate when I take the camera out of the bag). Now, I believe that A7 is not as bad as big DSLRs, which are in tight contact with the camera bag's walls, but the X-T1's solution is just perfect.
  • fast and good quality 35mm equivalent 23mm/1.4
  • pretty good quality kit zoom 18-55/2.8-4
  • also available the 56mm f/1.2 (equivalent to ~85/1.8), wide angle primes, wide angle zooms, telezooms, etc etc. All quite high quality.

distinct points on A7

  • better contrast, sharpness, noise from sensor than X-T1
  • Faster at ~50mm and better DOF control with the 55/1.8, but not with other lenses. FE 55/1.8 and X-mount 23/1.4 are equally expensice
  • overpriced 24-70 zoom and sadly not offered as a kit, people seem to say the 28-70/3.5-5.6 is not a very good lens
  • limited lens selection (just 35/2.8, 55/1.8, 28-70/3.5-5.6, 24-70/4 that does not sell as a kit and costs $1200) , more lenses coming in 1-2 years... wonder about the pricing.
  • slow and pretty expensive 35/2.8 (though the Fuji 23/1.4 is even a bit more expensive)

I actually wonder if the FE mount will ever get faster lenses than the Fujifilm X-mount and at the same time keep the lenses compact and lightweight (and reasonably priced). After all, Fuji already has fast quality lenses: 23/1.4 (~35/2.1), 35/1.4 (~52/2.1), 56/1.2 (~85/1.8). Sony FE only has the 55/1.8, which admittedly is faster than the Fuji's 35/1.8 (but only slightly) and from the testes I've seen so far produces better image quality. But there it ends at the moment.

So, the way it looks to me, the X-T1 will be probably the nicer camera to shoot with, giving a more intuitive shooting experience and the A7 will give better image quality in good light. The lack of a fast AF 35mm on FE pains me the most. It seems that in low light, Fuji's fast primes even out the sensor size advantage of the A7. Am I right or utterly mistaken? I'm keen to hear opinions. If you even managed to read this far, you have my respect.

I am actually trying to make the same decision myself......

for me, it all came down to making a choice between Full Frame and APSC ...

personlly I dont believe you can match the full frame asthetics with APSC + fast lens combination

if full frame is your choice go with A7 of course you will have to live with the pains , lowlight AF, and lens availability

if APSC go with Fuji X - T1 ( I would wait to compare it with the Nex-7 successor though, rumoured to be released next week) .

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Patchy Forum Member • Posts: 77
Re: choosing between X-T1 and Sony A7
1

I have the Sony RX1 for FF and will add the X-T1 with the 14mm 2.8, 56mm 1.2 and a zoom. For me this seems the best of both worlds and either camera gets the job done. FF and APS-C have their own characteristics and it is clever to use them simultaneously with two seperate bodys. Thats my conclusion of the dilema.

I heard  rumors that metabone might develop a Canon EF speedboster adapter for Fuji x-mount. This way we could use all Canon FF lenses  with there native focal lenght on the  Fuji APS-C. I hope AF-speed and IQ can hold up with such a speedbooster.

The Davinator
The Davinator Forum Pro • Posts: 20,937
Re: F2.8 is slow? who knew?
4

jamesfrmphilly wrote:

are you a vampire?

F2.8 has always been slow.  Sorry that you've had to deal with slow glass.

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Arn
OP Arn Veteran Member • Posts: 3,585
Re: Avoid A7, it has a broken sensor

a l b e r t wrote:

See this thread:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3613281

Not only you get sensor reflections on third party lenses, but it also manifests on the Sony 24-70 ZA OSS lens as well.

Seems to me Sony rushed the camera out the door without thorough testing.

Fuji replaced all X10 sensors with the orb problem. I doubted Sony will do the same.

Thanks for the tip. Looks like it's a trouble with both cameras, more with the A7 and a bit less with the A7R. The reflections seem to appear when shooting into bright light sources and stopped down to f/8 or further.

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arcaswissi99
arcaswissi99 Regular Member • Posts: 107
Re: choosing between X-T1 and Sony A7

Arn wrote:

I posted this also to a thread on the Sony forum, but I want to hear both sides of the story, so naturally I am also post here to hear your opinions.

I've recently gotten tired of lugging DSLR gear around and I'm intent on getting a compact mirrorless camera system that can be considered a true photographer's tool and can provide good image quality. Travel photogprahy is a high priority. I always shoot RAW. Video is something I rarely do. I only use AF lenses.

I already have an APS-C system - the Samsung NX20 with 10mm fisheye, 12-24/4.5-5.6, 30/2 (pancake), 45/1.8, 18-55/3.5-5.6 which are all pretty good quality. But I want to compliment that system with another system that has higher overall quality (mechanical and image quality) and faster lenses. My biggest gripe with Samsung NX is, is that it doesn't have a fast 35mm equivalent lens.

So, I'm trying to choose between the full frame Sony A7 and Fujifilm X-T1. Can't see much other choise than these two... (no, I absolutely do not consider micro43 a choise and I will not get the NEX-7 or 6). The X-T1 provides the best image quality from an APS-C sensor (though not as good as a FF sensor) and Fujifilm has the best lens selection with fastest primes.

My favourite single focal length is 35mm, though I shoot with anything from 15mm-300mm.

The problem with the A7 is, that I want a camera that I can fully use right now (or within the next 3 months). The only fast lens that Sony has on FE-mount, is the 55/1.8 (though it is a very high quality lens, though costs around $1000). At 35mm there is only 35/2.8 which is nicely compact (120g), but undeniably slow. In comparison, Fuji has the 23/1.4 (equivalent to ~ 35mm f/2.1) which is faster and can produce a more shallow DOF than the A7 with it's FF sensor, though it is a bit heavier.

distinct points on X-T1

  • direct controls with buttons and wheels, which I much prefer over menu settings.
  • I like that the wheels have locking buttons (I simply hate it with my 7D/5DII, that the wheels constantly rotate when I take the camera out of the bag). Now, I believe that A7 is not as bad as big DSLRs, which are in tight contact with the camera bag's walls, but the X-T1's solution is just perfect.
  • fast and good quality 35mm equivalent 23mm/1.4
  • pretty good quality kit zoom 18-55/2.8-4
  • also available the 56mm f/1.2 (equivalent to ~85/1.8), wide angle primes, wide angle zooms, telezooms, etc etc. All quite high quality.

distinct points on A7

  • better contrast, sharpness, noise from sensor than X-T1
  • Faster at ~50mm and better DOF control with the 55/1.8, but not with other lenses. FE 55/1.8 and X-mount 23/1.4 are equally expensice
  • overpriced 24-70 zoom and sadly not offered as a kit, people seem to say the 28-70/3.5-5.6 is not a very good lens
  • limited lens selection (just 35/2.8, 55/1.8, 28-70/3.5-5.6, 24-70/4 that does not sell as a kit and costs $1200) , more lenses coming in 1-2 years... wonder about the pricing.
  • slow and pretty expensive 35/2.8 (though the Fuji 23/1.4 is even a bit more expensive)

I actually wonder if the FE mount will ever get faster lenses than the Fujifilm X-mount and at the same time keep the lenses compact and lightweight (and reasonably priced). After all, Fuji already has fast quality lenses: 23/1.4 (~35/2.1), 35/1.4 (~52/2.1), 56/1.2 (~85/1.8). Sony FE only has the 55/1.8, which admittedly is faster than the Fuji's 35/1.8 (but only slightly) and from the testes I've seen so far produces better image quality. But there it ends at the moment.

So, the way it looks to me, the X-T1 will be probably the nicer camera to shoot with, giving a more intuitive shooting experience and the A7 will give better image quality in good light. The lack of a fast AF 35mm on FE pains me the most. It seems that in low light, Fuji's fast primes even out the sensor size advantage of the A7. Am I right or utterly mistaken? I'm keen to hear opinions. If you even managed to read this far, you have my respect.

Hi Arn,

I've tested A7r and A7 intensively and finally have decided to invest in Xt1. For me the following facts have turned the balance towards Fuji: lenses - with the recently released 56mm I can get everything what I need now! including 14mm, 23/1,4 and 55-200 ar a reasonable price in perfect quality. Sony, you can buy the 55 and hope for better times. Besides that I am still not sure if  there will be any cornersharp wide angle lenses in the future. Everything what I've seen from the 24-70 until now is disappointing. If ever lenses of the same quality will exist, you will have to pay double the price for lenses with at least one if not 2 f-stops slower. On the other hand because of the shutter you have to use faster speed not to produce blurry images. Thus I'd say with Fuji you can take Iso 200 whereas you have to take 1600 to 3200 with the a7(r). Do you believe that the result still will be better than?

The Dof advantage - and not always smaller Dof is an advantage at all! you can only have with lenses still as large as Dslr lenses costing you a small fortune and I really don't believe that within the next years there will be any change to this because of physics.

Ergonomics from the Sonys - shutter placement, menu button, menu system, shutter release and some more put me off.

Conclusion:  you are a tripod guy composing every shot and are willing to spend a lot of money in still to come lenses, with IQ the unique selling point, go with the Sony, else....

Just my 2 cts.

-- hide signature --

Erni
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bavarius6 Contributing Member • Posts: 578
Re: choosing between X-T1 and Sony A7

Westmill wrote:

I could be wrong here, but I am sure I seem to remember reading that the Sony can only shoot JPG or lossy compressed RAW ?

No one knows if it is lossy. Files are smaller thank nikon using the same sensor but quality is not worse. In the end if the difference cannot be determined and quality does not suffer then who cares? Quality is still better than Fuji;-)

This is like the film 'Ghost': "...they see what they want to see..."!

The worst person to give an opinion on any given camera/lens is one that's just spent a wheelbarrow full of their own money on one IMO.

I too read the A7 test which mentions RAW files captured at 14 bits but the file recorded appears to use around 11 bits so Sony are binning RAW information! Surely that's going to hurt the ability to recover highlight and shadow information in PP? I won't even mention the jpeg processing....

Pat

Clayton1985 Veteran Member • Posts: 7,739
Re: Avoid A7, it has a broken sensor

Arn wrote:

a l b e r t wrote:

See this thread:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3613281

Not only you get sensor reflections on third party lenses, but it also manifests on the Sony 24-70 ZA OSS lens as well.

Seems to me Sony rushed the camera out the door without thorough testing.

Fuji replaced all X10 sensors with the orb problem. I doubted Sony will do the same.

Thanks for the tip. Looks like it's a trouble with both cameras, more with the A7 and a bit less with the A7R. The reflections seem to appear when shooting into bright light sources and stopped down to f/8 or further.

I think this is (potentially) inaccurate information. The A7 seems to be the one exhibiting the problem and most theories so far point to reflections on the thin low pass filter of the A7.  This would indicate that it isn't a problem with the A7r which seems to be consistent with the example images that show the actual problem being from the A7.  Several of the posts in that thread are showing typical lens flare - I don't know that I've seen an example taken with the A7r that exhibits the specific issue that the A7 is showing.

Arn
OP Arn Veteran Member • Posts: 3,585
Re: Avoid A7, it has a broken sensor

Clayton1985 wrote:

Arn wrote:

a l b e r t wrote:

See this thread:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3613281

Not only you get sensor reflections on third party lenses, but it also manifests on the Sony 24-70 ZA OSS lens as well.

Seems to me Sony rushed the camera out the door without thorough testing.

Fuji replaced all X10 sensors with the orb problem. I doubted Sony will do the same.

Thanks for the tip. Looks like it's a trouble with both cameras, more with the A7 and a bit less with the A7R. The reflections seem to appear when shooting into bright light sources and stopped down to f/8 or further.

I think this is (potentially) inaccurate information. The A7 seems to be the one exhibiting the problem and most theories so far point to reflections on the thin low pass filter of the A7. This would indicate that it isn't a problem with the A7r which seems to be consistent with the example images that show the actual problem being from the A7. Several of the posts in that thread are showing typical lens flare - I don't know that I've seen an example taken with the A7r that exhibits the specific issue that the A7 is showing.

It does affect A7R, too. Here's a very clear sample demonstrating the problem on the FE 35: http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/53005750

I have never, ever seen a flare (spots) like that coming out of any of my cameras. But like I said, looks like you have to stop to f/8 or further to really see this effect.

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viking79
viking79 Forum Pro • Posts: 14,148
Re: choosing between X-T1 and Sony A7

I'll be honest, I didn't read all of that.
Anyway, for what it's worth, here's my take on this dilemma:
If the Sony wasn't full frame you wouldn't consider it because the system is non existent compared to Fuji.
Fuji has the better system and a camera that (on paper) will do a much better job at getting photographs.
Easy decision IMO
Cheers!
--
www.twitter.com/gavphotography

I disagree. The Sony is by far the best mirrorless to use with millions of legacy 35mm lenses. These old FD, OM, etc primes do exceptionally well on their native sensor format.

My point is it is all in your perspective, for some the Sony is best, for others the Fuji or Samsung.

To the OP, I kept the Samsung NX over my XPro1, but new X-T1 looks enticing. I wouldn't get rid of the Samsung until we see the Samsung NX1. The 30mm is maybe closer to the 35mm than you think and much faster focusing.

Eric

 viking79's gear list:viking79's gear list
Sony a7R Samsung NX1 Samsung NX 30mm F2 Pancake Samsung NX 85mm F1.4 ED SSA Samsung NX 60mm F2.8 Macro ED OIS SSA +5 more
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