What is your idea of "the lens gap?"

Started Feb 1, 2014 | Polls
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Tom Axford Senior Member • Posts: 2,855
Very small, but high quality lenses
1

The whole reason I moved into MFT was to reduce the size and weight of my gear.

There are a few very small lenses available such as the Lumix 12-32 and several pancake primes, but I think there is room for more very small lenses that need not be super fast. For example, I would like a good portrait lens of around 70 to 90 mm at say f/2.8 or f/3.5 that could be considerably smaller (and lighter) than the 75mm f/1.8.

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Ergo607 Senior Member • Posts: 1,256
Re: What is your idea of "the lens gap?"

I want compact constant f/4 zooms, and would be glad to pay for it...

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Mark Thornton Veteran Member • Posts: 3,423
Re: What is your idea of "the lens gap?"

the new 25mm f/1.8

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franta123 Forum Member • Posts: 71
Re: What is your idea of "the lens gap?"

Me too! Some Sigma pancakes native mft (as opposed to APS lenses like the 19 and 30) would be nice. But maybe the market isn't there for them ?

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Anybody who isn't confused does not really understand what's going on.

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jeffharris
jeffharris Veteran Member • Posts: 6,489
Re: What is your idea of "the lens gap?"

Marty4650 wrote:

Which of the following "missing lens types" would you want the most? Which would be your highest priority?

I voted for long prime telephotos. A400mm would be great! But I also agree with the 100mm-ish macro.

That said, instead of waiting for or bewailing the lack of native M4/3 lenses I'd like to see, I chose to adapt existing manual lenses. So, the lenses that I have (and actually use) in the long lens department are mainly AI-S Nikons. 105mm f2.8 macro, 200mm f4 IF macro, 300mm f4.5 EDIF. I'm actually quite happy with them. All are excellent quality. Those three together (including lens adaptors) cost less than ONE of the native "pro" zooms.

If we ever see comparable native lenses, I can always choose to sell them. OR…

Plan B is to use them with a mirrorless FF camera once a model appears that I like. I've got a bunch of primes  from 20mm to 300mm ready to go. Sony A7 v.2.0? Maybe…

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murfthesurf Contributing Member • Posts: 634
Re: What is your idea of "the lens gap?"

Mark Thornton wrote:

Agreed, I had rather hoped that it would be much closer in price to the 45mm instead of nearly twice the price.

Huh? At B&H, they are the exact same price:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1026123-REG/olympus_v311060bu000_25mm_f_1_8_m_lens.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/971404-REG/olympus_v311030bu000_m_45mm_f1_8_lens.html

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- Murf

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CharlesTokyo Contributing Member • Posts: 705
Re: What is your idea of "the lens gap?"

Marty4650 wrote:

Which of the following "missing lens types" would you want the most? Which would be your highest priority?

Thanks!

I voted for the last option. I think the m43s lineup is pretty good for me at the moment. I was waiting for a smaller/cheaper 25mm. The Oly is still a bit bigger than I was hoping for, but it works.

I guess I'd like a 10mm prime. I'm pretty happy with my 9-18mm, but I would mine a sealed wide zoom, slower aperture, but very high quality. Other than that, telephotos and teleconverters seems to be missing. 150 and 300mm lenses with 1.4x and 2x as a telephoto pro zoom would fill out a lot of the holes.

I'd like a shift lens, but I'm not as wild about the tilt part. Larger format cameras need the tilt to get more in focus which I generally don't have a problem with. I'm not so interested in make landscapes look like miniature models. I'd like to correct verticals.

An updated 20mm with faster focusing too.

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CharlesTokyo Contributing Member • Posts: 705
Re: Very small, but high quality lenses

Tom Axford wrote:

The whole reason I moved into MFT was to reduce the size and weight of my gear.

There are a few very small lenses available such as the Lumix 12-32 and several pancake primes, but I think there is room for more very small lenses that need not be super fast. For example, I would like a good portrait lens of around 70 to 90 mm at say f/2.8 or f/3.5 that could be considerably smaller (and lighter) than the 75mm f/1.8.

Agreed. Small, compact, high quality. They don't need to be fast or especially cheap. I would mind a slower 25mm if they could make it smaller. I didn't bring my 75mm on my trip because of the weight. I would of loved a slower prime in the 75-100mm length.

On a different note, I know many people have mentioned a longer macro. I'd like a 25mm macro that I can use as a normal lens.

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Jim Salvas
Jim Salvas Veteran Member • Posts: 4,449
Re: What is your idea of "the lens gap?"
1

murfthesurf wrote:

Mark Thornton wrote:

Agreed, I had rather hoped that it would be much closer in price to the 45mm instead of nearly twice the price.

Huh? At B&H, they are the exact same price:

Actually, that's the problem, regardless of what Mark said. One of these two lenses deserves to be much cheaper, if not both. Either the 25/1.8 should be priced less than the Nikon 50/1.8 G lens, or the 45 should be priced less than that. That Nikon, a very good lens, sells for a little over $200 and covers a much bigger image circle.

What is the justification for each Olympus lens costing twice as much just to cover the 4/3 sensor?

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Jim Salvas

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micksh6
micksh6 Senior Member • Posts: 2,612
Re: What is your idea of "the lens gap?"

Jim Salvas wrote:

murfthesurf wrote:

Mark Thornton wrote:

Agreed, I had rather hoped that it would be much closer in price to the 45mm instead of nearly twice the price.

Huh? At B&H, they are the exact same price:

Actually, that's the problem, regardless of what Mark said. One of these two lenses deserves to be much cheaper, if not both. Either the 25/1.8 should be priced less than the Nikon 50/1.8 G lens, or the 45 should be priced less than that. That Nikon, a very good lens, sells for a little over $200 and covers a much bigger image circle.

What is the justification for each Olympus lens costing twice as much just to cover the 4/3 sensor?

Economies of scale. Less volume - more R&D cost per unit, cost of components also decreases with super large volumes that Canon and Nikon have.

For example, Apple secures multi-billion deals in advance in order to get millions of parts cheaper than competitors, so Apple gets higher profit. Neither Olympus nor Panasonic can afford that.

Possibly miniaturization also plays some role, but it's mostly about number of units sold.

People must realize that before choosing m4/3 system, but most don't, so we have lots of price complaints and some threaten to go back to DSLR.

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Jim Salvas
Jim Salvas Veteran Member • Posts: 4,449
Re: What is your idea of "the lens gap?"

micksh6 wrote:

Jim Salvas wrote:

murfthesurf wrote:

Mark Thornton wrote:

Agreed, I had rather hoped that it would be much closer in price to the 45mm instead of nearly twice the price.

Huh? At B&H, they are the exact same price:

Actually, that's the problem, regardless of what Mark said. One of these two lenses deserves to be much cheaper, if not both. Either the 25/1.8 should be priced less than the Nikon 50/1.8 G lens, or the 45 should be priced less than that. That Nikon, a very good lens, sells for a little over $200 and covers a much bigger image circle.

What is the justification for each Olympus lens costing twice as much just to cover the 4/3 sensor?

Economies of scale. Less volume - more R&D cost per unit, cost of components also decreases with super large volumes that Canon and Nikon have.

For example, Apple secures multi-billion deals in advance in order to get millions of parts cheaper than competitors, so Apple gets higher profit. Neither Olympus nor Panasonic can afford that.

Possibly miniaturization also plays some role, but it's mostly about number of units sold.

People must realize that before choosing m4/3 system, but most don't, so we have lots of price complaints and some threaten to go back to DSLR.

You still haven't explained why the 45 and 25 are the same price. This does not happen in other formats.

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Jim Salvas

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micksh6
micksh6 Senior Member • Posts: 2,612
Re: What is your idea of "the lens gap?"

Jim Salvas wrote:

micksh6 wrote:

Jim Salvas wrote:

murfthesurf wrote:

Mark Thornton wrote:

Agreed, I had rather hoped that it would be much closer in price to the 45mm instead of nearly twice the price.

Huh? At B&H, they are the exact same price:

Actually, that's the problem, regardless of what Mark said. One of these two lenses deserves to be much cheaper, if not both. Either the 25/1.8 should be priced less than the Nikon 50/1.8 G lens, or the 45 should be priced less than that. That Nikon, a very good lens, sells for a little over $200 and covers a much bigger image circle.

What is the justification for each Olympus lens costing twice as much just to cover the 4/3 sensor?

Economies of scale. Less volume - more R&D cost per unit, cost of components also decreases with super large volumes that Canon and Nikon have.

For example, Apple secures multi-billion deals in advance in order to get millions of parts cheaper than competitors, so Apple gets higher profit. Neither Olympus nor Panasonic can afford that.

Possibly miniaturization also plays some role, but it's mostly about number of units sold.

People must realize that before choosing m4/3 system, but most don't, so we have lots of price complaints and some threaten to go back to DSLR.

You still haven't explained why the 45 and 25 are the same price. This does not happen in other formats.

It's easy to explain if you abstract from image circle that lens covers.
Nikon 35mm F1.8 (52mm in APS-C) is about $200, same price as Nikon 50mm F1.8 (75mm in APS-C). Only Canon doesn't have lens similar to 50mm F1.8 but shorter, so it can't be compared. Canon users have cheap 50mm F1.8 but it's an exception from the rule.

The image circle covered by lens is not that important considering that both Pana 20mm F1.7 and Oly 45mm F1.8 can cover APS-C image circle. See at the end of this post here.
http://m43photo.blogspot.com/2014/01/put-aps-c-sensors-in-micro-four-thirds.html

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norman shearer Regular Member • Posts: 364
Re: What is your idea of "the lens gap?"

I'd like more pancake or small primes that are geared towards good performance in a small package. I'll happily sacrifice some speed if it means the price is more competitive and the lens can fit in a pocket. Lets get a pancake replacement for the 17mm F2.8 for starters..

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Henry Richardson Forum Pro • Posts: 15,347
14.5mm f5

We have the 14mm and soon there will be a 15mm. But, where's the important 14.5mm lens??? m4/3 just will never be taken seriously unless this essential lens is available. We need a 14.5mm f5. Until we have that I will find it very hard to spend any more money on m4/3.

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Dave Lively Senior Member • Posts: 1,746
Re: What is your idea of "the lens gap?"

broody wrote:

The 25mm will come down in price soon enough... Nowadays most electronics seem to be released with an initial price hike, in anticipation of the increasingly common practice of treating online ordering services' return politicies as a 'free rental' - people who order tons of stuff from Amazon just to try it, without intention of keeping it, and return it within a month for a full refund, cost the OEMs a lot of money as the inventory of used items can only be sold significantly under MRSP...

There was a thread in the open forum a year ago about returns being sold as new.  If a lens was not returned as defective, all the packaging is present and the lens shows no wear then it is put back on the shelf and sold as new.  The B&H rep confirmed this is their practice and it sounds like it is the standard for most retailers with liberal return policies.  If all the returns were not sold as new there would be a LOT more open box and refurbished lenses for sale.  We do not pay more for liberal return policies, we might get a lightly used lens instead of one that has not been touched by human hands since it left the factory though.

The other thing to consider is a lot of camera manufacturers have minimum advertised price polices designed to protect small dealers.  To get the cameras direct from the manufacturer retailers cannot go below this price.  While they cannot compete on price they can offer things like no questions asked return policies.  If lens prices are initially high I do not think it has anything to do with the return policies.

I never buy something with the intention of returning it but I have returned things that did not perform as expected.  Last year I sent back a fairly expensive tripod because the ball head was too stiff and I was having a hard time positioning it correctly.  I think it was defective but it might have been that that is just the way it was designed.  Either way I am glad I ordered it from B&H and could return it without having to prove it was defective.

Dave Lively Senior Member • Posts: 1,746
Re: What is your idea of "the lens gap?"

Jim Salvas wrote:

You still haven't explained why the 45 and 25 are the same price. This does not happen in other formats.
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Jim Salvas

My $350 45mm is sharper wide open than my $200 Nikon 35mm f1.8 was, particularly in the corners.  Part of the extra cost goes towards a design that works better at f1.8.  The Nikon lenses would cost more than they do if they offered similar optical performance.

But I agree that it would be nice to have a $200 25mm f1.8 option.  While the 45mm may be better optically I was never disappointed with the pictures I took with the Nikon 35mm.  It was a good lens and plenty sharp enough for my purposes. It may not have been as sharp in the corners but was always more than good enough optically for what I used it for and what I would use the Olympus 25mm for.  I used it mostly indoors without a flash and when I got poor results it was due to motion blur, focus errors or pushing the ISO too high.  The subject was rarely in the corners so even if the corners were not razor sharp it did not matter.  The optical performance of the 45mm is overkill for many people.

There should have been an option for "decent f1.8 prime for $200 or less" option in the poll.  All of the SLR systems have a lens like that.  I previously owned a NEX-5N and while I was not impressed with the zooms Sony made for that system the $300 50mm f1.8 was a very good lens.  And that $300 included image stabilization.

TheEye
TheEye Veteran Member • Posts: 4,282
A rectilinear 9 or 10 mm prime is missing
2

Since they never made one for 4/3, I doubt they'll make one for m4/3.

mh2000 Senior Member • Posts: 2,776
25mm pancake len

that's it

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ernieF Senior Member • Posts: 1,591
High Quality 12-60 in native m43
3

... is sorely missing IMO.  The 12-70 and 12-80 are too short on the long end.  Canon has great EF-S 24-135 and 24-105L in FF, and Nikon a 24-120.

f2.8-3.5 or 4 would be fine with me as long as optically very good.

Cheers.  Ernie

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Alan Lai Regular Member • Posts: 289
Re: What is your idea of "the lens gap?"

Fast prime tele lenses and faster zooms without OIS. Maybe a 12-35 f/1.8 like what Sigma did with its 18-35 f1.8.

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