re: a lot of pressure on Sony now ... part-II

Started Jan 31, 2014 | Discussions
captura Forum Pro • Posts: 26,988
Re: Danny: yes, some pretty revolutionary design tricks

I am hoping that fast AF will finally arrive with the NEX-7 replacement camera. But please make it the small brick shape!

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socode Regular Member • Posts: 356
Re: re: a lot of pressure on Sony now ... part-II

captura wrote:

Meh...Some of these are probably not camera/photography enthusiasts. They are more likely to be students from Stanford who are practicing their skills as manipulators. Or paid company shills.

If you're paranoid and delusional, don't worry. We know where you are, and will beam you up to the mother ship soon.

quezra Veteran Member • Posts: 3,915
Re: re: a lot of pressure on Sony now ... part-II

socode wrote:

captura wrote:

Meh...Some of these are probably not camera/photography enthusiasts. They are more likely to be students from Stanford who are practicing their skills as manipulators. Or paid company shills.

If you're paranoid and delusional, don't worry. We know where you are, and will beam you up to the mother ship soon.

Lol first we're paid shills now we're Stanford students.  Alternatively we're dumb as nuts.  What next, Nobel prize winners? Angry housewives?  Who knows where the next accusation will lead! Stay tuned folks!

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parallaxproblem Veteran Member • Posts: 5,335
Re: re: a lot of pressure on Sony now ... part-II
2

jpr2 wrote:

...as the part-I run into a wall of 150 posts per thread limit, due in not small degree to a myriad of one-liner posts by few users well known for such a tactic - who always try to derail threads they don't agree with, here is the part-II.

Yes, there are very clear attempts to derail and fill up threads which are considered 'dangerous' by a small number of people posting here

Compare with this following thread which is basically a 'love-in' for the faux-DSLR which *may* be the new Sony design standard and which a number of us dislike:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/52922223

There was not a single negative or disruptive posting... not one. These guys were left in peace to discuss what they liked

Compare and contrast with the behaviour of many of the same individuals in these other threads against something they disagreed with and wanted to 'go away':

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/52891098

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/52906322

Draw your own conclusions concerning the motivations behind such behaviour...

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GaryW Veteran Member • Posts: 8,935
Re: re: a lot of pressure on Sony now ... part-II

Maybe we're merely fanboys who think we've gotten nice cameras.  Why not be excited?  Sony is just killing it with IQ in these sensors.  What's your priority?  AF speed over IQ?  That's valid, but because others value IQ first doesn't make them "paid shills".  And, IMO, AF speed really isn't the problem with my Nex-6 -- if anything, it's accuracy, although I'm not sure that that's all that much worse than other cameras.  Tracking might be particularly poor, although I have not really gotten a good real-world test.

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Gary W.

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quezra Veteran Member • Posts: 3,915
Re: re: a lot of pressure on Sony now ... part-II

GaryW wrote:

Maybe we're merely fanboys who think we've gotten nice cameras. Why not be excited? Sony is just killing it with IQ in these sensors. What's your priority? AF speed over IQ? That's valid, but because others value IQ first doesn't make them "paid shills". And, IMO, AF speed really isn't the problem with my Nex-6 -- if anything, it's accuracy, although I'm not sure that that's all that much worse than other cameras. Tracking might be particularly poor, although I have not really gotten a good real-world test.

If I was waiting for the N7 successor, I would not be worried about AF speed at all. A7 knocked it out the park for AF speed in my opinion.  If you're coming from pre-PDAF NEX cameras, you will feel the difference like night and day.  Not sure how a NEX-6 user will feel about it, but everything I've read says it's faster than the 6 by a noticeable amount too.

Now as for why Sony should be worried when it's occupying uncontested turf at the top of the pile when it comes to IQ, I have no clue. X-T1 would have interested me 7 months ago before the A7 rumors picked up steam. Now, not so much.  I'm sure the blazing fast AF grinds down pretty fast in low light just the same way OMDs and A7s and all the others do - it's not the first time Fuji claimed they had blinding AF speeds (remember the claims about X20? lol?).

The one thing Sony don't look like covering will be weather sealing, since if you wanted that on APS-C you'd need to use FE lenses.  Not sure the strictly-APS-C people will like that, having decided they're being neglected if they are offered FE lenses.  And I doubt Sony are going to come up with a weather-sealed APS-C lens lineup for some time - or we'd have heard about a new roadmap by now.  Fuji are struggling to come out with an entirely new weather-sealed lineup of lenses, and mostly in their top end zooms, so those are going to be expensive and heavy.

FWIW I doubt the NEX IBIS rumors are true - would be great but I think it's simply a communication screw up between marketing and R&D.

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GaryW Veteran Member • Posts: 8,935
Re: re: a lot of pressure on Sony now ... part-II

parallaxproblem wrote:

jpr2 wrote:

...as the part-I run into a wall of 150 posts per thread limit, due in not small degree to a myriad of one-liner posts by few users well known for such a tactic - who always try to derail threads they don't agree with, here is the part-II.

Yes, there are very clear attempts to derail and fill up threads which are considered 'dangerous' by a small number of people posting here

Compare with this following thread which is basically a 'love-in' for the faux-DSLR which *may* be the new Sony design standard and which a number of us dislike:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/52922223

There was not a single negative or disruptive posting... not one. These guys were left in peace to discuss what they liked

I did post that I preferred my Nex-6, although I can see where some might prefer the hump-EVF. I even mentioned that for ultimate portability, I'd prefer my Nex-5 and no EVF.  So, they weren't left completely without any contradictory views, but no one really took me up on my disagreements.  I wasn't that disagreeable,though.  

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/52891098

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/52906322

OH good, I'm not on either of these threads.  Pshew!

Draw your own conclusions concerning the motivations behind such behaviour...

Why wouldn't it simply be typical fanboy behavior?  It doesn't have to be a bigger conspiracy -- there are always those who will champion their favorite cause, sometimes without giving any merit to alternative views.

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Gary W.

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parallaxproblem Veteran Member • Posts: 5,335
Re: re: a lot of pressure on Sony now ... part-II

jpr2 wrote:

...as the part-I run into a wall of 150 posts per thread limit, due in not small degree to a myriad of one-liner posts by few users well known for such a tactic - who always try to derail threads they don't agree with, here is the part-II.

in particular just take a peek on very many examples here,including quite well documented series of moderately fast action, where XT-1 seems to coped pretty well. Also the SOOC images are quite amazing - already with XP-1 I was smitten by such excellent IQ from a low Mpx sensor, but these look even better

jpr2

The hump on the XT-1 is certainly a disappointment, but having said that it does seem to be well-executed and the camera has a lot of exciting features and the AF does appear to have made a lot of progress

IQ of the sample images do look good, but then I think IQ from the Sony sensors is pretty good as well and I have no complaints there

The Fuji lens range is much more interesting than the Sony one and seems better matched to their cameras than some of the rather odd decisions concerning the NEX lenses, though there are currently no long focal-lengths in the Fuji range (pencilled-in for 2015), which is a shame as part of the benefits of fast AF would be for telephoto action shots!

XT-1 is big again, the hump makes it the same width and height as a small DSLR...  if they pack the same tech into a brick shaped XP-1 replacement then it would be very interesting

If the Sony NEX-7 replacement does offer build-quality, a 'brick' type rangefinder body format and much improved AF then we can breath easy...   if it doesn't offer these things then I suspect a lot of the higher-end NEX-7 users will be heading in the direction of Fuji rather than the A7

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OP jpr2 Forum Pro • Posts: 15,554
re: yep, I've noticed that too - the MODs say that the best...

parallaxproblem wrote:

jpr2 wrote:

...as the part-I run into a wall of 150 posts per thread limit, due in not small degree to a myriad of one-liner posts by few users well known for such a tactic - who always try to derail threads they don't agree with, here is the part-II.

Yes, there are very clear attempts to derail and fill up threads which are considered 'dangerous' by a small number of people posting here

Compare with this following thread which is basically a 'love-in' for the faux-DSLR which *may* be the new Sony design standard and which a number of us dislike:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/52922223

There was not a single negative or disruptive posting... not one. These guys were left in peace to discuss what they liked

Compare and contrast with the behaviour of many of the same individuals in these other threads against something they disagreed with and wanted to 'go away':

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/52891098

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/52906322

Draw your own conclusions concerning the motivations behind such behaviour...
DUMP the HUMP! Campaign for *REAL* NEX replacement bodies

...way to deal with the apparent collusion of mass disruptors is either just to ignore them = left to themselves they will either got bored or stew in their own company, or... to file a formal complaint (which I'd hate to waste my time on, so the I-st option is simpler),

jpr2

GaryW Veteran Member • Posts: 8,935
Re: re: a lot of pressure on Sony now ... part-II

quezra wrote:

GaryW wrote:

Maybe we're merely fanboys who think we've gotten nice cameras. Why not be excited? Sony is just killing it with IQ in these sensors. What's your priority? AF speed over IQ? That's valid, but because others value IQ first doesn't make them "paid shills". And, IMO, AF speed really isn't the problem with my Nex-6 -- if anything, it's accuracy, although I'm not sure that that's all that much worse than other cameras. Tracking might be particularly poor, although I have not really gotten a good real-world test.

If I was waiting for the N7 successor, I would not be worried about AF speed at all. A7 knocked it out the park for AF speed in my opinion. If you're coming from pre-PDAF NEX cameras, you will feel the difference like night and day. Not sure how a NEX-6 user will feel about it, but everything I've read says it's faster than the 6 by a noticeable amount too.

Why are there so many posts implying that the A7 has poor AF?  I think "AF speed" is notoriously difficult to measure.  On my DSLR, it varies greatly depending on the lens.

Now as for why Sony should be worried when it's occupying uncontested turf at the top of the pile when it comes to IQ, I have no clue. X-T1 would have interested me 7 months ago before the A7 rumors picked up steam. Now, not so much. I'm sure the blazing fast AF grinds down pretty fast in low light just the same way OMDs and A7s and all the others do - it's not the first time Fuji claimed they had blinding AF speeds (remember the claims about X20? lol?).

From many reviewers and posts, the Nikon 1 series did manage to have fast hybrid PDAF.  If that was the  most important feature, shouldn't it have done better?  Perhaps the Fuji can bridge the gap between the two, but I'm not convinced that my Nex-6 AF is so bad....

The one thing Sony don't look like covering will be weather sealing, since if you wanted that on APS-C you'd need to use FE lenses. Not sure the strictly-APS-C people will like that, having decided they're being neglected if they are offered FE lenses. And I doubt Sony are going to come up with a weather-sealed APS-C lens lineup for some time - or we'd have heard about a new roadmap by now. Fuji are struggling to come out with an entirely new weather-sealed lineup of lenses, and mostly in their top end zooms, so those are going to be expensive and heavy.

FWIW I doubt the NEX IBIS rumors are true - would be great but I think it's simply a communication screw up between marketing and R&D.

Yeah, I wouldn't hold my breath on this one.

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Gary W.

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parallaxproblem Veteran Member • Posts: 5,335
Re: re: a lot of pressure on Sony now ... part-II

GaryW wrote:

parallaxproblem wrote:

jpr2 wrote:

...as the part-I run into a wall of 150 posts per thread limit, due in not small degree to a myriad of one-liner posts by few users well known for such a tactic - who always try to derail threads they don't agree with, here is the part-II.

Yes, there are very clear attempts to derail and fill up threads which are considered 'dangerous' by a small number of people posting here

Compare with this following thread which is basically a 'love-in' for the faux-DSLR which *may* be the new Sony design standard and which a number of us dislike:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/52922223

There was not a single negative or disruptive posting... not one. These guys were left in peace to discuss what they liked

I did post that I preferred my Nex-6, although I can see where some might prefer the hump-EVF. I even mentioned that for ultimate portability, I'd prefer my Nex-5 and no EVF. So, they weren't left completely without any contradictory views, but no one really took me up on my disagreements. I wasn't that disagreeable,though.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/52891098

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/52906322

OH good, I'm not on either of these threads. Pshew!

Draw your own conclusions concerning the motivations behind such behaviour...

Why wouldn't it simply be typical fanboy behavior? It doesn't have to be a bigger conspiracy -- there are always those who will champion their favorite cause, sometimes without giving any merit to alternative views.

I've already told you that you aren't in the list of 'perpetrators' of this kind of thing (just the fact that I can read and reply to your messages should indicate this)

Do you deliberately fill up threads? No

Do you attack the messagner rather than the message? Not normally

Do you deliberately play dumb to try to draw the people out into either a protracted discussion which bores everybody else sensless or worse a mud-slinging match in which the original point gets forgotton and the OP becomes discredited? No

Do you use 'lawyers tricks' and 'debating tactics' (circular arguments, strawmen and other logical fallacies etc) to lay traps or discredit the other person? No

Have you changed your opinion on the 'hump' as it becomes more likely that we might (note 'might, not 'will' as I don't know the future) see it on all future Sony EVF cameras? No

I have no problem with straightforward 'fanboys' (don't really like that term as it seem insulting, though like 'nerd' appears to have been adopted by the targets) who like their cameras and 'support' their brand. Everybody is entitled to their own opinion

What we have seen happen in some cases goes way beyond that, however

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quezra Veteran Member • Posts: 3,915
Re: re: a lot of pressure on Sony now ... part-II

GaryW wrote:

quezra wrote:

GaryW wrote:

Maybe we're merely fanboys who think we've gotten nice cameras. Why not be excited? Sony is just killing it with IQ in these sensors. What's your priority? AF speed over IQ? That's valid, but because others value IQ first doesn't make them "paid shills". And, IMO, AF speed really isn't the problem with my Nex-6 -- if anything, it's accuracy, although I'm not sure that that's all that much worse than other cameras. Tracking might be particularly poor, although I have not really gotten a good real-world test.

If I was waiting for the N7 successor, I would not be worried about AF speed at all. A7 knocked it out the park for AF speed in my opinion. If you're coming from pre-PDAF NEX cameras, you will feel the difference like night and day. Not sure how a NEX-6 user will feel about it, but everything I've read says it's faster than the 6 by a noticeable amount too.

Why are there so many posts implying that the A7 has poor AF? I think "AF speed" is notoriously difficult to measure. On my DSLR, it varies greatly depending on the lens.

Trolls know if they repeat it often enough, it will stick, whether or not it is true. So they repeat it every chance they get, even if they've never handled the camera. They also try to confuse A7 and A7R which have different AF performances. But just to repeat this till it sticks: A7 has blazing fast AF in good light. NEX-7II will have blazing fast AF in good light. It may even hold up better into lower light than the A7 because smaller sensors with wider DoFs tend to.

Now as for why Sony should be worried when it's occupying uncontested turf at the top of the pile when it comes to IQ, I have no clue. X-T1 would have interested me 7 months ago before the A7 rumors picked up steam. Now, not so much. I'm sure the blazing fast AF grinds down pretty fast in low light just the same way OMDs and A7s and all the others do - it's not the first time Fuji claimed they had blinding AF speeds (remember the claims about X20? lol?).

From many reviewers and posts, the Nikon 1 series did manage to have fast hybrid PDAF. If that was the most important feature, shouldn't it have done better? Perhaps the Fuji can bridge the gap between the two, but I'm not convinced that my Nex-6 AF is so bad....

I am sure Fuji's is fast. I'm just not sure it's fast enough to notice a performance difference with Sony's current generation of hybrid system or be a compelling reason to jump systems. And Sony have been confident enough to keep with CDAF on their NEX-3 series, which sells pretty well too.. which goes to show you how much the 'mass' market really cares about it.

There are those who are getting fed up waiting for Sony's new line (despite, funny enough, their cameras being NEX-5 series, not top of the lines) and are trying to force a narrative of Sony users being fed up with Sony. It may be true of themselves, but it's not true of a lot of people, hence their threads getting to hundreds of posts because people (shockingly) disagree with them. Then they cry conspiracy as if their view is the consensus and it's a tiny minority disagreeing with them.  Even when new posters without previous experience arguing with them continuously reach the same disagreements. The much simpler explanation is that lots of people actually do disagree with them, and fewer people disagree with the people who are getting plenty of satisfaction out of their Sony cameras.

The one thing Sony don't look like covering will be weather sealing, since if you wanted that on APS-C you'd need to use FE lenses. Not sure the strictly-APS-C people will like that, having decided they're being neglected if they are offered FE lenses. And I doubt Sony are going to come up with a weather-sealed APS-C lens lineup for some time - or we'd have heard about a new roadmap by now. Fuji are struggling to come out with an entirely new weather-sealed lineup of lenses, and mostly in their top end zooms, so those are going to be expensive and heavy.

FWIW I doubt the NEX IBIS rumors are true - would be great but I think it's simply a communication screw up between marketing and R&D.

Yeah, I wouldn't hold my breath on this one.

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Gary W.

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OP jpr2 Forum Pro • Posts: 15,554
Gary: Nik's N-1, S's N6 vs. F's XT-1 for action shooting/tracking

GaryW wrote:

From many reviewers and posts, the Nikon 1 series did manage to have fast hybrid PDAF. If that was the most important feature, shouldn't it have done better? Perhaps the Fuji can bridge the gap between the two, but I'm not convinced that my Nex-6 AF is so bad....

...the Nikon's N1/N2 series indeed show pretty good AF'ing esp. in the tracking context, however, their tiny sensors put that class of 1" cameras firmly outside of my interest. There already are some samples of action type shootouts... with the XT-1. Not very stringent or extremely ambitious in my book, but in the past I took part in many mixed gear gatherings (mostly BIFs, some falconry shows, acrobatics, etc. the usual kind of events where one can expect a good mix of photogs in some informal settings = conductive to info exchanges), usually inclusive of some Nex-6 or Nex-5R shooters, and with no exception they were able to capture at best few keepers, whereas all others captured dozens if not hundreds of keepers .

So... pretty lenient settings - any DSLR will cope with this with no problems, yet it seemed beyond hope for any APS-C sensored MILC before the XT-1:

Fujifilm X-T1, XF56mmF1.2 R (pre-production), SOOC JPEG

jpr2

GaryW Veteran Member • Posts: 8,935
Re: re: a lot of pressure on Sony now ... part-II

parallaxproblem wrote:

I've already told you that you aren't in the list of 'perpetrators' of this kind of thing (just the fact that I can read and reply to your messages should indicate this)

Do you deliberately fill up threads? No

Okay!  Thanks for the support.  

...I have no problem with straightforward 'fanboys' (don't really like that term as it seem insulting, though like 'nerd' appears to have been adopted by the targets) who like their cameras and 'support' their brand. Everybody is entitled to their own opinion

Well, it is intended as an insult usually, but then again, it is rather descriptive.   I agree with you that as long as people are at least being genuine and not simply debating (although I do like a good debate), I don't have a problem with most discussions.  If nothing else, we can see where people have differences in their preferences and opinions, and occasionally we learn something.

What we have seen happen in some cases goes way beyond that, however

Hmm....

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socode Regular Member • Posts: 356
Re: re: a lot of pressure on Sony now ... part-II

parallaxproblem wrote:

I've already told you that you aren't in the list of 'perpetrators' of this kind of thing (just the fact that I can read and reply to your messages should indicate this)

Do you use 'lawyers tricks' and 'debating tactics' (circular arguments, strawmen and other logical fallacies etc) to lay traps or discredit the other person? No

Physician heal thyself. All anyone can judge is whether or not you seem interested at all in taking on board other views.

It's a debating tactic to accuse people of using debating tactics when you don't want to respond, and I've seen you do that.

socode Regular Member • Posts: 356
Re: re: the AF which delivers for a really fast action - will be the answer

captura wrote:

The NEX cameras (5R, 5T, 6) had PDAF fast focus assist, and now also the Fuji XT-1. This very advanced feature has not appeared on Sony cameras since, perhaps as a cost-cutting measure and yet, is absolutely necessary. Why did you not mention it? (Exception is the A7)

If they're selling cameras like hotcakes without PDAF, it can't be "absolutely necessary" even if it would be nice.

GaryW Veteran Member • Posts: 8,935
Re: Gary: Nik's N-1, S's N6 vs. F's XT-1 for action shooting/tracking

jpr2 wrote:

GaryW wrote:

From many reviewers and posts, the Nikon 1 series did manage to have fast hybrid PDAF. If that was the most important feature, shouldn't it have done better? Perhaps the Fuji can bridge the gap between the two, but I'm not convinced that my Nex-6 AF is so bad....

...the Nikon's N1/N2 series indeed show pretty good AF'ing esp. in the tracking context, however, their tiny sensors put that class of 1" cameras firmly outside of my interest.

Yeah, there's a clear tradeoff -- smaller sensor, but better AF tracking.  The prices were still kind of high originally, as I recall.

There already are some samples of action type shootouts... with the XT-1. Not very stringent or extremely ambitious in my book, but in the past I took part in many mixed gear gatherings (mostly BIFs, some falconry shows, acrobatics, etc. the usual kind of events where one can expect a good mix of photogs in some informal settings = conductive to info exchanges), usually inclusive of some Nex-6 or Nex-5R shooters, and with no exception they were able to capture at best few keepers, whereas all others captured dozens if not hundreds of keepers .

I find BIF to be notoriously difficult, an edge-case if you will.  I'm not sure I had a lot of keepers with my DSLR, but I never went out of my way to just do "birding", so I have not really thought through the settings.  The last time I made an attempt, the birds were too dark and blurred, even though I had raised the EV and used 1/400 shutter -- I notice that some people use 1/4000!  Next time, I'll try to make that change....

So... pretty lenient settings - any DSLR will cope with this with no problems, yet it seemed beyond hope for any APS-C sensored MILC before the XT-1:

Fujifilm X-T1, XF56mmF1.2 R (pre-production), SOOC JPEG

Yeah, I saw this sequence.  Looks promising. I think this is as much as most people would want/need.

I'd really like to try this with my Nex-6.  Not sure what settings to use -- speed priority?  And AEL with Shutter set to off.

jpr2

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Gary W.

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parallaxproblem Veteran Member • Posts: 5,335
Re: re: a lot of pressure on Sony now ... part-II

GaryW wrote:

I don't have a problem with most discussions. If nothing else, we can see where people have differences in their preferences and opinions, and occasionally we learn something.

Oh, I've learnt a lot from five different people that argued with me in the last month.  In each case I stopped arguing when I realised they had a point and knew their subject, and I started asking questions and learning instead

As you say, if both parties are genuine and at least one party knows something useful and wants to share then we can benefit from discussions...   though those are the qualifying requirements, which unfortunately too often aren't met

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quezra Veteran Member • Posts: 3,915
Re: re: a lot of pressure on Sony now ... part-II
1

socode wrote:

parallaxproblem wrote:

I've already told you that you aren't in the list of 'perpetrators' of this kind of thing (just the fact that I can read and reply to your messages should indicate this)

Do you use 'lawyers tricks' and 'debating tactics' (circular arguments, strawmen and other logical fallacies etc) to lay traps or discredit the other person? No

Physician heal thyself. All anyone can judge is whether or not you seem interested at all in taking on board other views.

It's a debating tactic to accuse people of using debating tactics when you don't want to respond, and I've seen you do that.

This very thread kicks off with personal attacks in the OP. These hypocrites can accuse people of being shills in one post and in the next accuse those 'shills' of using 'debating tactics' etc.  Are you really surprised it turns out thus?

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OP jpr2 Forum Pro • Posts: 15,554
re: pls. note that was 15 consecutive frames at 8 FPS = almost exactly 2 secs.

GaryW wrote:

jpr2 wrote:

GaryW wrote:

From many reviewers and posts, the Nikon 1 series did manage to have fast hybrid PDAF. If that was the most important feature, shouldn't it have done better? Perhaps the Fuji can bridge the gap between the two, but I'm not convinced that my Nex-6 AF is so bad....

...the Nikon's N1/N2 series indeed show pretty good AF'ing esp. in the tracking context, however, their tiny sensors put that class of 1" cameras firmly outside of my interest.

Yeah, there's a clear tradeoff -- smaller sensor, but better AF tracking. The prices were still kind of high originally, as I recall.

There already are some samples of action type shootouts... with the XT-1. Not very stringent or extremely ambitious in my book, but in the past I took part in many mixed gear gatherings (mostly BIFs, some falconry shows, acrobatics, etc. the usual kind of events where one can expect a good mix of photogs in some informal settings = conductive to info exchanges), usually inclusive of some Nex-6 or Nex-5R shooters, and with no exception they were able to capture at best few keepers, whereas all others captured dozens if not hundreds of keepers .

I find BIF to be notoriously difficult, an edge-case if you will. I'm not sure I had a lot of keepers with my DSLR, but I never went out of my way to just do "birding", so I have not really thought through the settings. The last time I made an attempt, the birds were too dark and blurred, even though I had raised the EV and used 1/400 shutter -- I notice that some people use 1/4000! Next time, I'll try to make that change...

yes, 1/400 is about 3-4 times too slow for a BIF to be a success. As Danny wrote in his generous tips three factors are crucial for a BIF attempt to yield a keeper: [a] good light and in good position too (behind or at least sideways to a shooter and target), [b] short enough SS, I'd try to use at least 1/1250-1/1600 sec; [c] long enough FL in a bright prime (or zoom, but not many are of sufficiently fast aperture, and quick enough AF hardware+firmware combo), f/4-f/5.6 are usually a good compromise in 300-400 mm range (with 300mm being a bit on a short end);

So... pretty lenient settings - any DSLR will cope with this with no problems, yet it seemed beyond hope for any APS-C sensored MILC before the XT-1:

Fujifilm X-T1, XF56mmF1.2 R (pre-production), SOOC JPEG

pls. note that was 15 consecutive frames at 8 FPS = almost exactly 2 secs. of action The kid is not exactly of BIF level of difficulty = much slower a movement; a larger target; shorter FL (which means a lot thicker a DOF); but... it already attests to the XT-1 being at least sufficient to attempt more ambitious tasks EDIT: I've only now checked the EXIFs - this series was done at... f/1.4 and 1/4000 sec, which of course does change one's outlook on things !!

Yeah, I saw this sequence. Looks promising. I think this is as much as most people would want/need.

I'd really like to try this with my Nex-6. Not sure what settings to use -- speed priority? And AEL with Shutter set to off.

if there is a focus priority on N6 I'd personally avoid it as nothing is more frustrating than a frozen shutter button due to a wait for focus confirm. If there is a maximum ISO on Auto and in Manual mode, then setting the lens wide open and SS not less than 1/1250 might be a good starting point. AFIK the N6's 16Mpx sensor can go to 3200 without getting excessively noisy in a good outdoor light (golden hours at dawn or dusk are usually the best, esp. as wildlife gets quite active and already is either still present or gathers in their preferred sleeping quarters),

jpr2

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