re: a lot of pressure on Sony now ... part-II

Started Jan 31, 2014 | Discussions
jpr2 Forum Pro • Posts: 15,554
re: a lot of pressure on Sony now ... part-II
1

...as the part-I run into a wall of 150 posts per thread limit, due in not small degree to a myriad of one-liner posts by few users well known for such a tactic - who always try to derail threads  they don't agree with, here is the part-II.

in particular just take a peek on very many examples here,including quite well documented series of moderately fast action, where XT-1 seems to coped pretty well. Also the SOOC images are quite amazing - already with XP-1 I was smitten by such excellent IQ from a low Mpx sensor, but these look even better

jpr2

SQLGuy Veteran Member • Posts: 7,357
Re: re: a lot of pressure on Sony now ... part-II

Competition is good, and I'm happy to see Fuji continuing with X-Trans, as alternate approaches often lead to more dramatic improvements than come out of incremental refinements of known technology.

However, for me, there's not much in the X-T1 that would tempt me. Again, like the EM-1, it's as large as the A7 with a smaller sensor. I would also much rather have customizable wheels and a dedicated mode dial, than dedicated ISO and shutter speed dials; I really like the controls layout of the A7.

As long as Fuji is using Sony sensors, every Fuji sold is still a good thing for Sony, and Fuji helping to build an APS-C mirrorless market is good for NEX/Axxxx owners as well, as that still means more motivation for Zeiss, Sigma, and others to develop lenses for this market.

Especially given Fuji's current market share, I don't see this as pressure, just reaffirmation and healthy competition. Pressure would be if Canon got serious about mirrorless.

-- hide signature --

A7 with kit lens and a number of legacy lenses (mostly Canon FD)

 SQLGuy's gear list:SQLGuy's gear list
Canon PowerShot G9 Canon EOS-1D Nikon D200 Sony Alpha DSLR-A900 NEX-5T +15 more
edwardaneal
edwardaneal Veteran Member • Posts: 9,101
Re: re: a lot of pressure on Sony now ... part-II
1

jpr2 wrote:

...as the part-I run into a wall of 150 posts per thread limit, due in not small degree to a myriad of one-liner posts by few users well known for such a tactic - who always try to derail threads they don't agree with, here is the part-II.

in particular just take a peek on very many examples here,including quite well documented series of moderately fast action, where XT-1 seems to coped pretty well. Also the SOOC images are quite amazing - already with XP-1 I was smitten by such excellent IQ from a low Mpx sensor, but these look even better

jpr2

price wise the XT-1 competes with the Sony a7

seriously how can you say sony is under pressure? with the right lens the A7 should kill any APS-c camera of equal or less mp

fact is right now all of the other mirror less camera companies are the ones who have the pressure on them trying to catch up with the A7 and the A7r

as a side note I would bet my NEX-7 with my sigma 60mm f/2.8 easily out resolves anything Fuji or any other mirror less camera manufacture makes other than the A7 & A7r

 edwardaneal's gear list:edwardaneal's gear list
Sony Alpha NEX-7 Sigma 60mm F2.8 DN Art Carl Zeiss Touit 1.8/32
OP jpr2 Forum Pro • Posts: 15,554
re: the AF which delivers for a really fast action - will be the answer
4

edwardaneal wrote:

jpr2 wrote:

...as the part-I run into a wall of 150 posts per thread limit, due in not small degree to a myriad of one-liner posts by few users well known for such a tactic - who always try to derail threads they don't agree with, here is the part-II.

in particular just take a peek on very many examples here, including quite well documented series of moderately fast action, where XT-1 seems to coped pretty well. Also the SOOC images are quite amazing - already with XP-1 I was smitten by such excellent IQ from a low Mpx sensor, but these look even better

jpr2

price wise the XT-1 competes with the Sony a7

seriously how can you say sony is under pressure? with the right lens the A7 should kill any APS-c camera of equal or less mp

fact is right now all of the other mirror less camera companies are the ones who have the pressure on them trying to catch up with the A7 and the A7r

as a side note I would bet my NEX-7 with my sigma 60mm f/2.8 easily out resolves anything Fuji or any other mirror less camera manufacture makes other than the A7 & A7r.

there is one - but pretty important - area where all Sony's MILCs and cybershots consistently lag behind, namely quick and yet accurate AF for truly fast action shooting & tracking. And I've a quite a long story behind me of waiting, and waiting for a competent yet small body which delivers such a functionality:

  • ...after about two decades of shooting film Eos'es I went with a Rebel (it was 400d), and was dearly disappointed with both AF speed and accuracy;
  • few years latter the 40d followed = greatly improved accuracy but... still not enough speed;
  • then finally (slightly more than 4 years ago) the 7d arrived = a digital body I was waiting for all that time - fast and also accurate, but... by then it felt too heavy and too big ;
  • so... the N7 followed, dismally slow AF'er, and the whole cycle started to repeat itself, again - endless wait for them to do it right... arrrrgh!!

so, here we're, waiting for the Nex-7 mk-II, and keeping fingers crossed that perhaps finally it will be the NEX akin to the legendary 7d's AF'ing performance (fat chance for that of course, but... hope is free, right?? ).

The samples in the link above suggest that XT-1 might have an answer, and as for me the APS-C is the smallest sensor I'd accept, the achievements in AF by the Nikon's N1/N2 series, or from Oly's OMG line of MILCs are not tempting at, all due to their tiny sensors .

.

.

EDIT: not sure of what you might mean that XT-1 competes with the A7 price wise - after all it is 500 USD cheaper, although I agree that the current price point is to high, as well as the XT-1 is too large for what it houses inside. Be it the size of the Nex-7 and without a hump would bring me to a forefront of preorders line in a heart beat

jpr2

PS and the meantime Canon decided to screw the outstanding 7d's AF when they released 70d - supposedly with exactly the same AF hardware, but crippled in FW with several crucial AF features stripped/disabled - most importantly the spot-AF is no more present !!

stevo23 Forum Pro • Posts: 21,386
Re: re: a lot of pressure on Sony now ... part-II
3

jpr2 wrote:

...as the part-I run into a wall of 150 posts per thread limit, due in not small degree to a myriad of one-liner posts by few users well known for such a tactic - who always try to derail threads they don't agree with, here is the part-II.

in particular just take a peek on very many examples here,including quite well documented series of moderately fast action, where XT-1 seems to coped pretty well. Also the SOOC images are quite amazing - already with XP-1 I was smitten by such excellent IQ from a low Mpx sensor, but these look even better

I seriously don't think there was a concerted effort to sink your original thread, I really hope it was no "tactic". Folks are allowed to disagree and they don't have to say much. I'm not sure I see why one has to be accused of such.

Clearly you are smitten with the X-T1 and if you are after what it does, this is good news. But the point is well made by many - this isn't any more pressure on Sony than before.

 stevo23's gear list:stevo23's gear list
Fujifilm X-Pro2 Fujifilm XF 60mm F2.4 R Macro Fujifilm XF 14mm F2.8 R Fujifilm XF 27mm F2.8 Fujifilm XF 23mm F1.4 R +3 more
captura Forum Pro • Posts: 27,205
Re: re: a lot of pressure on Sony now ... part-II

SQLGuy wrote:

Competition is good, and I'm happy to see Fuji continuing with X-Trans, as alternate approaches often lead to more dramatic improvements than come out of incremental refinements of known technology.

However, for me, there's not much in the X-T1 that would tempt me. Again, like the EM-1, it's as large as the A7 with a smaller sensor. I would also much rather have customizable wheels and a dedicated mode dial, than dedicated ISO and shutter speed dials; I really like the controls layout of the A7.

As long as Fuji is using Sony sensors, every Fuji sold is still a good thing for Sony, and Fuji helping to build an APS-C mirrorless market is good for NEX/Axxxx owners as well, as that still means more motivation for Zeiss, Sigma, and others to develop lenses for this market.

Especially given Fuji's current market share, I don't see this as pressure, just reaffirmation and healthy competition. Pressure would be if Canon got serious about mirrorless.

I am not a big fan of the X-trans sensor. Sony has something similar but better in the works, which also does de-mosaicing.

I prefer Fuji's older EXP technology.

 captura's gear list:captura's gear list
Sony Alpha NEX-7 Canon EOS Rebel SL1 Sony a7 Olympus OM-D E-M10 Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM +3 more
captura Forum Pro • Posts: 27,205
Re: re: a lot of pressure on Sony now ... part-II

edwardaneal wrote:

jpr2 wrote:

...as the part-I run into a wall of 150 posts per thread limit, due in not small degree to a myriad of one-liner posts by few users well known for such a tactic - who always try to derail threads they don't agree with, here is the part-II.

in particular just take a peek on very many examples here,including quite well documented series of moderately fast action, where XT-1 seems to coped pretty well. Also the SOOC images are quite amazing - already with XP-1 I was smitten by such excellent IQ from a low Mpx sensor, but these look even better

jpr2

price wise the XT-1 competes with the Sony a7

seriously how can you say sony is under pressure? with the right lens the A7 should kill any APS-c camera of equal or less mp

fact is right now all of the other mirror less camera companies are the ones who have the pressure on them trying to catch up with the A7 and the A7r

as a side note I would bet my NEX-7 with my sigma 60mm f/2.8 easily out resolves anything Fuji or any other mirror less camera manufacture makes other than the A7 & A7r

Well the Fuji poses the question...do you really need more than 16 mp for an APS-C sized sensor?

 captura's gear list:captura's gear list
Sony Alpha NEX-7 Canon EOS Rebel SL1 Sony a7 Olympus OM-D E-M10 Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM +3 more
captura Forum Pro • Posts: 27,205
Re: re: the AF which delivers for a really fast action - will be the answer

jpr2 wrote:

edwardaneal wrote:

jpr2 wrote:

...as the part-I run into a wall of 150 posts per thread limit, due in not small degree to a myriad of one-liner posts by few users well known for such a tactic - who always try to derail threads they don't agree with, here is the part-II.

in particular just take a peek on very many examples here, including quite well documented series of moderately fast action, where XT-1 seems to coped pretty well. Also the SOOC images are quite amazing - already with XP-1 I was smitten by such excellent IQ from a low Mpx sensor, but these look even better

jpr2

price wise the XT-1 competes with the Sony a7

seriously how can you say sony is under pressure? with the right lens the A7 should kill any APS-c camera of equal or less mp

fact is right now all of the other mirror less camera companies are the ones who have the pressure on them trying to catch up with the A7 and the A7r

as a side note I would bet my NEX-7 with my sigma 60mm f/2.8 easily out resolves anything Fuji or any other mirror less camera manufacture makes other than the A7 & A7r.

there is one - but pretty important - area where all Sony's MILCs and cybershots consistently lag behind, namely quick and yet accurate AF for truly fast action shooting & tracking. And I've a quite a long story behind me of waiting, and waiting for a competent yet small body which delivers such a functionality:

  • ...after about two decades of shooting film Eos'es I went with a Rebel (it was 400d), and was dearly disappointed with both AF speed and accuracy;
  • few years latter the 40d followed = greatly improved accuracy but... still not enough speed;
  • then finally (slightly more than 4 years ago) the 7d arrived = a digital body I was waiting for all that time - fast and also accurate, but... by then it felt too heavy and too big ;
  • so... the N7 followed, dismally slow AF'er, and the whole cycle started to repeat itself, again - endless wait for them to do it right... arrrrgh!!

so, here we're, waiting for the Nex-7 mk-II, and keeping fingers crossed that perhaps finally it will be the NEX akin to the legendary 7d's AF'ing performance (fat chance for that of course, but... hope is free, right?? ).

The samples in the link above suggest that XT-1 might have an answer, and as for me the APS-C is the smallest sensor I'd accept, the achievements in AF by the Nikon's N1/N2 series, or from Oly's OMG line of MILCs are not tempting at, all due to their tiny sensors .

.

.

EDIT: not sure of what you might mean that XT-1 competes with the A7 price wise - after all it is 500 USD cheaper, although I agree that the current price point is to high, as well as the XT-1 is too large for what it houses inside. Be it the size of the Nex-7 and without a hump would bring me to a forefront of preorders line in a heart beat

jpr2

PS and the meantime Canon decided to screw the outstanding 7d's AF when they released 70d - supposedly with exactly the same AF hardware, but crippled in FW with several crucial AF features stripped/disabled - most importantly the spot-AF is no more present !!

The NEX cameras (5R, 5T, 6) had PDAF fast focus assist, and now also the Fuji XT-1. This very advanced feature has not appeared on Sony cameras since, perhaps as a cost-cutting measure and yet, is absolutely necessary. Why did you not mention it? (Exception is the A7)

 captura's gear list:captura's gear list
Sony Alpha NEX-7 Canon EOS Rebel SL1 Sony a7 Olympus OM-D E-M10 Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM +3 more
miro3 Veteran Member • Posts: 3,048
Re: re: a lot of pressure on Sony now ... part-II

stevo23 wrote:

jpr2 wrote:

...as the part-I run into a wall of 150 posts per thread limit, due in not small degree to a myriad of one-liner posts by few users well known for such a tactic - who always try to derail threads they don't agree with, here is the part-II.

in particular just take a peek on very many examples here,including quite well documented series of moderately fast action, where XT-1 seems to coped pretty well. Also the SOOC images are quite amazing - already with XP-1 I was smitten by such excellent IQ from a low Mpx sensor, but these look even better

I seriously don't think there was a concerted effort to sink your original thread,

It was not his.

It was mine!

I really hope it was no "tactic". Folks are allowed to disagree and they don't have to say much. I'm not sure I see why one has to be accused of such.

+1

Clearly you are smitten with the X-T1 and if you are after what it does, this is good news. But the point is well made by many - this isn't any more pressure on Sony than before.

I disagree here.

They'd better improve the AF speed, as well as improve the response time.

These are both not very competitive on the A7r.

captura Forum Pro • Posts: 27,205
Re: re: a lot of pressure on Sony now ... part-II

stevo23 wrote:

jpr2 wrote:

...as the part-I run into a wall of 150 posts per thread limit, due in not small degree to a myriad of one-liner posts by few users well known for such a tactic - who always try to derail threads they don't agree with, here is the part-II.

in particular just take a peek on very many examples here,including quite well documented series of moderately fast action, where XT-1 seems to coped pretty well. Also the SOOC images are quite amazing - already with XP-1 I was smitten by such excellent IQ from a low Mpx sensor, but these look even better

I seriously don't think there was a concerted effort to sink your original thread, I really hope it was no "tactic". Folks are allowed to disagree and they don't have to say much. I'm not sure I see why one has to be accused of such.

Clearly you are smitten with the X-T1 and if you are after what it does, this is good news. But the point is well made by many - this isn't any more pressure on Sony than prior and I don't see it putting them off their game at all. The few incrementally improved features of the X-T1 don't add up to enough for me. Fuji's eventually going to have to get off the 16Mp sensor to truly compete.

" The few incrementally improved features of the X-T1 don't add up to enough for me. Fuji's eventually going to have to get off the 16Mp sensor to truly compete."

I doubt that very much. The need for more megapixels is an important factor in the carefully nurtured culture of the NEX-HUMP forum, and 16 mp may really be sufficient for an APS-C sensor. Uncrowded larger pixels mean less noise than for example, a 16 mp sensor in an M43 camera.

 captura's gear list:captura's gear list
Sony Alpha NEX-7 Canon EOS Rebel SL1 Sony a7 Olympus OM-D E-M10 Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM +3 more
stevo23 Forum Pro • Posts: 21,386
Re: re: a lot of pressure on Sony now ... part-II

miro3 wrote:

stevo23 wrote:

jpr2 wrote:

...as the part-I run into a wall of 150 posts per thread limit, due in not small degree to a myriad of one-liner posts by few users well known for such a tactic - who always try to derail threads they don't agree with, here is the part-II.

in particular just take a peek on very many examples here,including quite well documented series of moderately fast action, where XT-1 seems to coped pretty well. Also the SOOC images are quite amazing - already with XP-1 I was smitten by such excellent IQ from a low Mpx sensor, but these look even better

I seriously don't think there was a concerted effort to sink your original thread,

It was not his.

It was mine!

Interesting - he spoke as if it were his. At least he took offense in such a way.

I really hope it was no "tactic". Folks are allowed to disagree and they don't have to say much. I'm not sure I see why one has to be accused of such.

+1

Clearly you are smitten with the X-T1 and if you are after what it does, this is good news. But the point is well made by many - this isn't any more pressure on Sony than before.

I disagree here.

They'd better improve the AF speed, as well as improve the response time.

These are both not very competitive on the A7r.

Suit yourself. I don't know anyone who truly needs such a thing in their daily photo activities. Seriously, we're talking about milliseconds difference. But I don't know you or your habits.

 stevo23's gear list:stevo23's gear list
Fujifilm X-Pro2 Fujifilm XF 60mm F2.4 R Macro Fujifilm XF 14mm F2.8 R Fujifilm XF 27mm F2.8 Fujifilm XF 23mm F1.4 R +3 more
captura Forum Pro • Posts: 27,205
Re: re: a lot of pressure on Sony now ... part-II

miro3 wrote:

stevo23 wrote:

jpr2 wrote:

...as the part-I run into a wall of 150 posts per thread limit, due in not small degree to a myriad of one-liner posts by few users well known for such a tactic - who always try to derail threads they don't agree with, here is the part-II.

in particular just take a peek on very many examples here,including quite well documented series of moderately fast action, where XT-1 seems to coped pretty well. Also the SOOC images are quite amazing - already with XP-1 I was smitten by such excellent IQ from a low Mpx sensor, but these look even better

I seriously don't think there was a concerted effort to sink your original thread,

It was not his.

It was mine!

I really hope it was no "tactic". Folks are allowed to disagree and they don't have to say much. I'm not sure I see why one has to be accused of such.

+1

Clearly you are smitten with the X-T1 and if you are after what it does, this is good news. But the point is well made by many - this isn't any more pressure on Sony than before.

I disagree here.

They'd better improve the AF speed, as well as improve the response time.

These are both not very competitive on the A7r.

I agree that the AF on the A7R is slow, but the A7R is a special-purpose camera, designed to produce the ultimate IQ, no-holds barred. So they left out 'stuff.'

Why the A7 is not faster considering that it has PDAF, is the real burning question in my mind.

 captura's gear list:captura's gear list
Sony Alpha NEX-7 Canon EOS Rebel SL1 Sony a7 Olympus OM-D E-M10 Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM +3 more
stevo23 Forum Pro • Posts: 21,386
Re: re: a lot of pressure on Sony now ... part-II

captura wrote:

stevo23 wrote:

jpr2 wrote:

...as the part-I run into a wall of 150 posts per thread limit, due in not small degree to a myriad of one-liner posts by few users well known for such a tactic - who always try to derail threads they don't agree with, here is the part-II.

in particular just take a peek on very many examples here,including quite well documented series of moderately fast action, where XT-1 seems to coped pretty well. Also the SOOC images are quite amazing - already with XP-1 I was smitten by such excellent IQ from a low Mpx sensor, but these look even better

I seriously don't think there was a concerted effort to sink your original thread, I really hope it was no "tactic". Folks are allowed to disagree and they don't have to say much. I'm not sure I see why one has to be accused of such.

Clearly you are smitten with the X-T1 and if you are after what it does, this is good news. But the point is well made by many - this isn't any more pressure on Sony than prior and I don't see it putting them off their game at all. The few incrementally improved features of the X-T1 don't add up to enough for me. Fuji's eventually going to have to get off the 16Mp sensor to truly compete.

" The few incrementally improved features of the X-T1 don't add up to enough for me. Fuji's eventually going to have to get off the 16Mp sensor to truly compete."

I doubt that very much.

Well, that's only me I'm talking about.

The need for more megapixels is an important factor in the carefully nurtured culture of the NEX-HUMP forum, and 16 mp may really be sufficient for an APS-C sensor. Uncrowded larger pixels mean less noise than for example, a 16 mp sensor in an M43 camera.

We want to think so. But then look at the GX7 - smaller, lighter, feather weight lenses. Why buy a heavier, bulkier camera if the resolution is basically the same? Mind you, I haven't seen reliable DR figures yet from either - (sensorgen is the only one worth looking at). But my suspicion is that the Panasonic is excellent.

But I think Fuji will have to get a bigger or higher resolution sensor to stay competitive because it seems unreasonable not to do so. I was interested in the XE1 because it was small and light, albeit the lenses were kind of heavy. But now, the XT1 is here and it's...huge. For that kind of bulk and same weight, I think I would rather the A7.

It all comes down to what you value. I don't value an extra 5 milliseconds AF speed.

 stevo23's gear list:stevo23's gear list
Fujifilm X-Pro2 Fujifilm XF 60mm F2.4 R Macro Fujifilm XF 14mm F2.8 R Fujifilm XF 27mm F2.8 Fujifilm XF 23mm F1.4 R +3 more
skookum8 Regular Member • Posts: 477
Re: re: a lot of pressure on Sony now ... part-II
1

...as the part-I run into a wall of 150 posts per thread limit, due in not small degree to a myriad of one-liner posts by few users well known for such a tactic - who always try to derail threads  they don't agree with, here is the part-II.

in particular just take a peek on very many examples here,including quite well documented series of moderately fast action, where XT-1 seems to coped pretty well. Also the SOOC images are quite amazing - already with XP-1 I was smitten by such excellent IQ from a low Mpx sensor, but these look even better

jpr2

So what would is it you expect from this forum? Not everyone' will fall in line with the same opinion.

nzmacro
nzmacro Forum Pro • Posts: 16,159
It's nice, but ;-)
2

Personal view only.

By the sound of it the EVF is superb !! Especially what its capable of, that appeals. The remote, very, very nice. Both very clever.

That's from what I've seen so far. With MF users we can swing between a lot of mirroless options, Olympus, Panasonic ..... m4/3, Fuji, Samsung, etc.

And then there's NEX What I've always wondered with these other cameras that have adopted focus peaking is, are they as versatile with FP as the Sony. Do they have similar or are they totally different. That would be a deal breaker and so would front shutter. Then we have the APS-c 24mp sensor for cropping.

Personally the NEX-7 has been far beyond its years and its going to take one heck of a camera to get some of us to change.

If I was into fast AF, it would be a DSLR or an SLT. Thank goodness that doesn't come into it and allows us to simply change to any mirrorless camera or brand. Next camera this end has to have 1/8000, I know where that can be useful. I prefer the EVF at the left and not in the centre. I know the difference and have used a centre EVF before in the Panasonic. Doesn't appeal going back to that to be honest. Rear LCD screen, well if it wasn't there it wouldn't worry me at all. Its not used.

At the end of the day, why change

All the best and yep, something special needs to get the NEX-7 away from my hands. Maybe a new version of it.

Danny.

-- hide signature --
 nzmacro's gear list:nzmacro's gear list
Sony Alpha NEX-7 Olympus E-M1 Sony a7 Olympus E-M1 II +6 more
socode Regular Member • Posts: 356
Re: re: a lot of pressure on Sony now ... part-II

captura wrote:

Well the Fuji poses the question...do you really need more than 16 mp for an APS-C sized sensor?

If APS-C will only ever be a second camera, or not for landscapers, sure. It never bothered us on film that not every shot exploited the maximum resolution of the medium, but when you need it it's better to have it, and the NEX-7 shows you can have it.

OP jpr2 Forum Pro • Posts: 15,554
Danny: yes, some pretty revolutionary design tricks

nzmacro wrote:

By the sound of it the EVF is superb !! Especially what its capable of, that appeals. The remote, very, very nice. Both very clever.

Am not sure whether Ricoh might not be having a dual display also = full view and enlarged one in the inset? Tom from AU would know, but he is pretty absent from DPR lately.

That's from what I've seen so far. With MF users we can swing between a lot of mirrorless options, Olympus, Panasonic ..... m4/3, Fuji, Samsung, etc.

alas, for me it must be APS-C or larger sensor, which leaves only few players: Samsung, Ricoh, Canon (two Eoses M & M2, but their AF is a saddest joke in industry, and alas both are VF-less - same as Ricoh), and of course Sony and Fuji

And then there's NEX What I've always wondered with these other cameras that have adopted focus peaking is, are they as versatile with FP as the Sony. Do they have similar or are they totally different. That would be a deal breaker and so would front shutter. Then we have the APS-c 24mp sensor for cropping.

indeed this is a crucial question, from what Tom says, Ricoh FP leaves all the competition socks down, but maybe Fuji managed to catch up with XT-1?

Personally the NEX-7 has been far beyond its years and its going to take one heck of a camera to get some of us to change.

indeed again - should the N7-classic be equipped with at least entry level DSLR's AF (or better still prosumer level DSLR) I'd never look for either N7 mk-II or for replacement. Instead I'd simply buy a stash of such N7's to last me till the end of my days and... stopped wasting time on the Internet

If I was into fast AF, it would be a DSLR or an SLT. Thank goodness that doesn't come into it and allows us to simply change to any mirrorless camera or brand. Next camera this end has to have 1/8000, I know where that can be useful. I prefer the EVF at the left and not in the centre. I know the difference and have used a centre EVF before in the Panasonic. Doesn't appeal going back to that to be honest. Rear LCD screen, well if it wasn't there it wouldn't worry me at all. Its not used.

yup, the 1/8000 is on a top of my list - but somehow they found it tricky to deliver, esp. together with EFC synchronization. Lets hope it will be there one day. The hump is a serious detrimental factor for me, esp. as it is completely unnecessary - perhaps (given choice) I'd prefer something completely unsymetric body-wise like the old F828 or F717 = LHC VF and all the weight going to my supporting (that is the left) arm.

At the end of the day, why change

well, this is personal of course, but mu guesstimete is that MF-only is sufficient for about 70% of all shooting opps I encounter (and we're talking of hundreds of thousands RAWs, so the missing 30% is quite substantial a number too )

All the best and yep, something special needs to get the NEX-7 away from my hands. Maybe a new version of it.

Danny.

indeed, and that "something" might be either N7- mk-II (hopefully hump-less, but with at least XT-1 class AF for dynamic targets shooting), or XT-1 (a real pity it is so huge, and... overpriced too IMO), or... an endless wait for Canon to wake up and to deliver MILC worthy their reputation and potential!!!

best,

Quercy

nzmacro
nzmacro Forum Pro • Posts: 16,159
Re: Danny: yes, some pretty revolutionary design tricks

jpr2 wrote:

nzmacro wrote:

By the sound of it the EVF is superb !! Especially what its capable of, that appeals. The remote, very, very nice. Both very clever.

Am not sure whether Ricoh might not be having a dual display also = full view and enlarged one in the inset? Tom from AU would know, but he is pretty absent from DPR lately.

That's from what I've seen so far. With MF users we can swing between a lot of mirrorless options, Olympus, Panasonic ..... m4/3, Fuji, Samsung, etc.

alas, for me it must be APS-C or larger sensor, which leaves only few players: Samsung, Ricoh, Canon (two Eoses M & M2, but their AF is a saddest joke in industry, and alas both are VF-less - same as Ricoh), and of course Sony and Fuji

And then there's NEX What I've always wondered with these other cameras that have adopted focus peaking is, are they as versatile with FP as the Sony. Do they have similar or are they totally different. That would be a deal breaker and so would front shutter. Then we have the APS-c 24mp sensor for cropping.

indeed this is a crucial question, from what Tom says, Ricoh FP leaves all the competition socks down, but maybe Fuji managed to catch up with XT-1?

Personally the NEX-7 has been far beyond its years and its going to take one heck of a camera to get some of us to change.

indeed again - should the N7-classic be equipped with at least entry level DSLR's AF (or better still prosumer level DSLR) I'd never look for either N7 mk-II or for replacement. Instead I'd simply buy a stash of such N7's to last me till the end of my days and... stopped wasting time on the Internet

If I was into fast AF, it would be a DSLR or an SLT. Thank goodness that doesn't come into it and allows us to simply change to any mirrorless camera or brand. Next camera this end has to have 1/8000, I know where that can be useful. I prefer the EVF at the left and not in the centre. I know the difference and have used a centre EVF before in the Panasonic. Doesn't appeal going back to that to be honest. Rear LCD screen, well if it wasn't there it wouldn't worry me at all. Its not used.

yup, the 1/8000 is on a top of my list - but somehow they found it tricky to deliver, esp. together with EFC synchronization. Lets hope it will be there one day. The hump is a serious detrimental factor for me, esp. as it is completely unnecessary - perhaps (given choice) I'd prefer something completely unsymetric body-wise like the old F828 or F717 = LHC VF and all the weight going to my supporting (that is the left) arm.

At the end of the day, why change

well, this is personal of course, but mu guesstimete is that MF-only is sufficient for about 70% of all shooting opps I encounter (and we're talking of hundreds of thousands RAWs, so the missing 30% is quite substantial a number too )

All the best and yep, something special needs to get the NEX-7 away from my hands. Maybe a new version of it.

Danny.

indeed, and that "something" might be either N7- mk-II (hopefully hump-less, but with at least XT-1 class AF for dynamic targets shooting), or XT-1 (a real pity it is so huge, and... overpriced too IMO), or... an endless wait for Canon to wake up and to deliver MILC worthy their reputation and potential!!!

best,

Quercy

Yeah that EVF would be fun to try. I can see that working for sure Q. Love to have a look through that with the long lenses on.

Interesting about the Ricoh focus peaking. Every time I see a new camera with FP I'm curious as to how they implemented it and if its anything like Sony's. I love it mate and hope all the others have a similar system, contrasts and low to high settings. Be nice to try them all huh

Times are really good for all of us and the future is bright in digital cameras. Would love to see a new Sony sensor in that Fuji, but I can't see that happening any time soon from Sony.

All the best Quercy, interesting camera that Fuji.

Danny.

-- hide signature --
 nzmacro's gear list:nzmacro's gear list
Sony Alpha NEX-7 Olympus E-M1 Sony a7 Olympus E-M1 II +6 more
captura Forum Pro • Posts: 27,205
Re: re: a lot of pressure on Sony now ... part-II

stevo23 wrote:

captura wrote:

stevo23 wrote:

jpr2 wrote:

...as the part-I run into a wall of 150 posts per thread limit, due in not small degree to a myriad of one-liner posts by few users well known for such a tactic - who always try to derail threads they don't agree with, here is the part-II.

in particular just take a peek on very many examples here,including quite well documented series of moderately fast action, where XT-1 seems to coped pretty well. Also the SOOC images are quite amazing - already with XP-1 I was smitten by such excellent IQ from a low Mpx sensor, but these look even better

I seriously don't think there was a concerted effort to sink your original thread, I really hope it was no "tactic". Folks are allowed to disagree and they don't have to say much. I'm not sure I see why one has to be accused of such.

Clearly you are smitten with the X-T1 and if you are after what it does, this is good news. But the point is well made by many - this isn't any more pressure on Sony than prior and I don't see it putting them off their game at all. The few incrementally improved features of the X-T1 don't add up to enough for me. Fuji's eventually going to have to get off the 16Mp sensor to truly compete.

" The few incrementally improved features of the X-T1 don't add up to enough for me. Fuji's eventually going to have to get off the 16Mp sensor to truly compete."

I doubt that very much.

Well, that's only me I'm talking about.

The need for more megapixels is an important factor in the carefully nurtured culture of the NEX-HUMP forum, and 16 mp may really be sufficient for an APS-C sensor. Uncrowded larger pixels mean less noise than for example, a 16 mp sensor in an M43 camera.

We want to think so. But then look at the GX7 - smaller, lighter, feather weight lenses. Why buy a heavier, bulkier camera if the resolution is basically the same?

Resolution is only part of the story. As I said, having the same 16 mpxls on a quarter-sensor like M43, which is half the size of the APS-C sensor, makes for pixel crowding, and smaller pixels are used. THis equates to more noise, and remedies can result in blurring. So in all, IQ isnot as high. The ability to use much smaller lenses and even bodies is the benefit, and the latest extreme example of this is the GM1. http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonic-lumix-dmc-gm1

Mind you, I haven't seen reliable DR figures yet from either - (sensorgen is the only one worth looking at). But my suspicion is that the Panasonic is excellent.

But I think Fuji will have to get a bigger or higher resolution sensor to stay competitive because it seems unreasonable not to do so.

In your mind.

I was interested in the XE1 because it was small and light, albeit the lenses were kind of heavy.

They NEED to be.

- They are APSC

- They are built for QUALITY.

But now, the XT1 is here and it's...huge. For that kind of bulk and same weight, I think I would rather the A7.

I just looked it up and it surprised me; it's about the same size as the A7. But then, so is the E-M1, The Olympus M43 camera. This is what you get when you build in the HUMPED body-style. Hopefully the upcoming NEX-7 replacement camera will be smaller and lighter.

It all comes down to what you value. I don't value an extra 5 milliseconds AF speed.

Design and execution. And this is just ME thinking. The Fuji might be better over-all than your A7. We shall see.

 captura's gear list:captura's gear list
Sony Alpha NEX-7 Canon EOS Rebel SL1 Sony a7 Olympus OM-D E-M10 Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM +3 more
captura Forum Pro • Posts: 27,205
Re: re: a lot of pressure on Sony now ... part-II

skookum8 wrote:

...as the part-I run into a wall of 150 posts per thread limit, due in not small degree to a myriad of one-liner posts by few users well known for such a tactic - who always try to derail threads they don't agree with, here is the part-II.

in particular just take a peek on very many examples here,including quite well documented series of moderately fast action, where XT-1 seems to coped pretty well. Also the SOOC images are quite amazing - already with XP-1 I was smitten by such excellent IQ from a low Mpx sensor, but these look even better

jpr2

So what would is it you expect fro m this forum? Not everyone' will fall in line with the same opinion.

Meh...Some of these are probably not camera/photography enthusiasts. They are more likely to be students from Stanford who are practicing their skills as manipulators. Or paid company shills.

 captura's gear list:captura's gear list
Sony Alpha NEX-7 Canon EOS Rebel SL1 Sony a7 Olympus OM-D E-M10 Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM +3 more
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads