Going back to DSLR...

Started Jan 28, 2014 | Discussions
cityathrt
cityathrt Regular Member • Posts: 127
Re: Going back to DSLR...

I too went through a very similar process. I tried very, very hard to buy into the Fuji system as I loved the JPG output, really appreciated the way the company listened to the users, and the lens line up is simply terrific. I tried liking the X-Pro 1 (too big for me and felt similar to my 6D), X-E1 (low EVF resolution, comparatively speaking, really bothered me), and X100S (got driven crazy by the AF).

At the end of the day I realized that although everyone lauds the slow, deliberate way of shooting required with Fuji cameras, that method really doesn't work for me. I need a camera with fast electronics, particularly for the moments I hand my camera off to friends so I can be in a picture for once. I really like to use my legacy lenses at their intended focal length, and appreciate peaking that isn't a shimmer of white. I also like it for other programs to be able to fully read my camera's RAWs. This and other reasons were why I just couldn't get into the Fuji X system, no matter how hard I tried.

Michael Otis
Michael Otis Forum Member • Posts: 61
Re: Going back to DSLR...
1

Interesting topic on both the merits and disadvantages of both DSLR's and smaller mirrorless cameras. I put myself somewhat in the middle on this dicussion as I love my D3 and most of my FX lenses however I wouldn't mind a smaller camera I could stash in my pocket or small shoulder bag. As they say... the best camera is the one you have with you when a photo opportunity happens.

Upon futher pondering my desirde to save up for a Fugifilm X-E2 as my carry around camera I came up with another idea...  use what I have and try to adapt.  What  I mean is when I'm on assignment i obviously bring a lot of equipment along but when I'm just going about I now bring my D3 with  a Nikon 28mm f1.8 (or other small prime) The weight is a little over 3lbs.  With a good shoulder strap this is not that uncomfortable to carry around and when I do see something interesting,  i have blinding fast af, descent low light capabilities and the reassurance that I have a better chance of getting the shot I want.   This has worked for me.

Magpie

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jyhfeei Forum Member • Posts: 88
Re: Going back to DSLR...

cityathrt wrote:

I really like to use my legacy lenses at their intended focal length, and appreciate peaking that isn't a shimmer of white. I also like it for other programs to be able to fully read my camera's RAWs. This and other reasons were why I just couldn't get into the Fuji X system, no matter how hard I tried.

Using legacy lenses on a 6D?  A mirrorless crop sensor has some benefit for legacy lenses.  It crops the poor edge performance typical of the legacy film lenses.  Digital sensors do not handle angled light as well as film does.

Colored peaking is on the FW upgrade list and I would not doubt that we see it just after the X-T1 is available.

As for not reading RAWs, very old news.  DXO is the only holdout and it looks like Lightroom 5 is supposed to be upgraded for the X-trans.

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Tapper123
Tapper123 Senior Member • Posts: 1,727
kinda funny...

Are you the same guy that complained and complained about the tilt screen making X-T1 too bulky on Fujirumors?

If so, kinda funny that you're moving to a much heavier, bulkier system.

But good luck with it; Nikon is certainly a solid system.

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OP Al Downie Senior Member • Posts: 1,368
Re: kinda funny...

Tapper123 wrote:

Are you the same guy that complained and complained about the tilt screen making X-T1 too bulky on Fujirumors?

If so, kinda funny that you're moving to a much heavier, bulkier system.

But good luck with it; Nikon is certainly a solid system.

The very same! Thankfully, the D800 doesn't have a flappy screen. It arrived tonight, it's the size of a football, but at least it doesn't have a flappy screen...

Am on Chapter 217 of the Introduction.

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Gazeomon
Gazeomon Contributing Member • Posts: 552
Re: Going back to DSLR...

Cane wrote:

Yes, let's make sure we are fan boys! Have to spin Fuji as positive always, for everyone.

What is Your spin?

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Tord S Eriksson
Tord S Eriksson Forum Pro • Posts: 11,123
Re: kinda funny...

The weight of the D800, or a D600, with good, fast lenses, is awesome! Who needs a gym?!

For me, a basic mirrorless, with a handful of lenses, plus a D600 for lanscape, portraits, and BIF, is heaven! I have a Nikon MILC, and a Sony, and they are pretty awesome, but not perfect for BIF (birds in flight), landscape photography, and portraits. The rest I do just as well with my mirrorless cameras, even if they lack anti-shake system - a pity!

All my APS-C DSLRs (used to own four) have been pensioned off, or sold!

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Astrophotographer 10 Forum Pro • Posts: 12,724
Re: kinda funny...
1

I just sold my D800e for a Sony A7r and am happy with the change.

D800e is a great camera but I found I wasn't using it because of its size.

A7r IQ is much the same as the D800e perhaps a tad better. The ooc jpegs and raws are better because I prefer the Sony white balance which is very very good (almost as good as Fuji's).

I like the evf and WYSIWYG in the EVF which makes the adusting of parameters very easy and fast plus manual focus with the Sony focus peaking a snap and very fast.

I found that my D800e had a slight green bias in images sometimes. Just a bit but I am pretty sure its there. The D800e is a pro camera so it can do anything. Sometimes I found it too complex and I was forever fiddling with it instead of taking the shot. I think the Sony handles backlit subjects better than the D800e does.

Overall I jumped at the change because I got the compact size and evf I had grown to love with the XE1 but the same 36mp sensor with truly no AA instead of a self cancelling AA filter which does add a little to the IQ.

Also whilst Sony do not have many lenses for the A7 just now what they do have is sensational. The Zeiss FE35mm F2.8 is one of the sharpest lenses around. Small and light - beautiful colour - just wow.

AF is very good but the D800 would be better at sports type scenes with AF tracking. XT1 may be a match there to D800. I never had attention on AF with the D800e and I never had any left side AF issues that a lot were complaining about early on.

The FE55mm F1.8 has now just received DXOMarks highest score for an AF lens. Sharpness is on par with the Zeiss Otus 55mm which is a $4000 lens. The Zeiss 24-70 F4 is just being delivered to people now and also seems a big winner. A 70-200 is out later this month.

But there are tons of legacy lenses that make this A7r really sing. You can use lenses from anyone.

I currently love the Canon 70-200mm F4 L on the A7r. Only cost $600 as well! AF is very slow with the Metabones adapter so treat it like a manual lens and the Metabones as a way to adjust aperture really.

Contax G Zeiss 45mm F2, 90mm, Zeiss Contax Yashica are outstanding lenses. Canon FD L are popular as are Nikons with high quality adapters (Novoflex).

So the beauty of the Sony is you can get the cost of the lenses down to a fraction of new expensive Nikon lenses and choose the best from a range of manufacturers. And the Sony Zeiss lenses as they come out so far are at the best performance of any lens type category.

File sizes are smaller with A7r in RAW. It also has a tiltable screen, wifi and NFC to connect to a blue tooth phone. You can control it remotely with a smart phone if that is of interest.

All at a lower initial cost.

Basically there was very little if anything the D800e could do my A7r could not do. AF on fast moving objects probably. I have not really done a comparison as I did not use the D800e for that either. I have no attention on AF on the A7r on native lenses. That's me though. LCD is better on the A7r and I like the ability to review images on the EVF as its easier to see zoomed in than the D800 which has a relatively poor live view implementation and manual focusing is a bit slow. I installed the magnifying eyepiece on the OVF on my D800e and that was a nice upgrade. It makes a bit easier to manual focus as you can see a bit better. The green dot that shows when you are in focus is a bit old fashioned on the Nikon. The Sony is light years ahead there and the new XT1 seems likely to have taken a step forward from Sony.

Sweep panorama function is one biggie Nikon does not have that Sony and Fuji have. I use that a lot and get a beautiful wide view using a 35mm lens or a bit wider. I used that to great effect in a European holiday last year. A pano with that Zeiss 35mm is sharp as and renders a gorgeous wide angle view. Superb.

Anyway, something to consider. You stil get that awesome sensor the 36.4mp Sony Exmor that is also in the Nikon D800 but with no AA filter so its more like D800e but as I say just a tad better Video would be better with the A7r. The first time I used the D800e for video it seemed like junk.

The AF on lenses in video is very crude on the Nikon and you should just use manual focus whereas AF works perfectly on the A7r with video and video output looks super lifelike with superb stereo sound. With the Zeiss 24-70 which has optical stabilisation video is actually quite sensational on the A7r.

One little thing to that is handy is the A7r has zebra stripes so you don't overexpose skin in portraits. Useful for video and stills. Another is digital zoom so you get 3 lots of focal lengths with your full frame lens. Go to APS crop (stiill 24mp!) and from there go to digital zoom and you get an additional 2X zoom. Could be handy.

I found menus on D800e to be very good and the A7r is almost as good but not quite. Still they are very good for a Sony (not their strong point right? Have a look at menu on Nex 6 - wow, a kid could have designed better - A7r is quite good). I also find the dials and layout to be veyr well done on the A7r and ergonomically I find everything is where my fingers lie to adjust when shooting so I don't need to take my eye from the EVF (apart from the odd fumbling to hit the C1 button for magnified live view  - I'll get used to it). Its also quite customisable.

Me, I'll be ultra happy with my A7r and Zeiss lenses and an XT1 and 14,23,35,56 primes and 18-55 zoom. The best the camera world has to offer for my tastes at the moment.

Greg.

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nofumble Senior Member • Posts: 2,121
Camera is not marriage

You don't have to stuck with one, you can have many as you want, and you don't have to file a divorce.

binauralbeats Forum Member • Posts: 73
Weird buying an expensive pro system to be "less of a consumer"...

Personally, I take most of my photos on a Pentax Spotmatic F. If my Canon G9 didn't get stolen, I'd be using that too. If you are inclined to spend on gear, you're going to do it... there will always be something else that's "better/more/etc".

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Astrophotographer 10 Forum Pro • Posts: 12,724
Re: I did the same , but....

Good Post. That made me laugh - so true!

Greg.

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Astrophotographer 10 Forum Pro • Posts: 12,724
Re: Going back to DSLR...

All valid except focus peaking not white. Which DSLR has focus peaking at all? I thought you need an EVF for that? Manual focus with DSLR is simply much harder to do. You've got live view which is often hard to see clearly in bright daylight.

Greg.

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AceP Regular Member • Posts: 388
Re: I did the same , but....

topstuff wrote:

I had forgotten what it was like to be the "camera guy" that stands out in a crowd, with his big bag and foot long lens.

I don't really want to be the "camera guy" anymore. I'd rather just blend in and have a life, and take pictures as I am living my life. A hulking great camera gets in the way, somehow.

My shots are better when I am observing life, and happen to be carrying a camera. This is different to carrying a camera, and observing life, if you see what I mean.

But we are all different . YMMV.

Actually I am exactly the same way. 

arcaswissi99
arcaswissi99 Regular Member • Posts: 127
Re: Going back to DSLR...

Al Downie wrote:

With mixed feelings, I've just returned the 60mm I bought from Amazon, and will be selling the X-E1, 35mm and 18-55mm - I'll be very sorry to let it go. It's been great fun to use, and the image quality is surprisingly good, as you all know.

I've just ordered a Nikon D800 and three Nikkors (85mm f1.4G, 135mm f2DC, 16-35mm f4G) and might buy the Sigma 50mm when it's released, if the price/performance is anything like their 35mm model.

I've surprised myself to be honest - after all my bleating about how disappointing the Df is, and all the excitement about the X-T1 which is without doubt the closest thing yet to the camera I've been longing for, in the end I've given up on the small sensor and gone full-frame with a conventional DSLR that offers NO traditional controls at all. Nuts.

I love the controls on the Fujis, and the light weight and portability. Love the image quality too, as far as it goes - I've loved shooting family portraits, landscapes, travel etc with the X-E1 (and the X100). Sadly though, the AF system is just not responsive enough to make the camera completely versatile, and there are no long prime lenses on the road map, so wildlife and sports (and even hyperactive toddler life) are pretty much excluded. I also have a nagging feeling that, with Fuji, I'd become a consumer rather than a photographer. It sort-of feels like that niche of the market is still evolving too quickly, and I'll end up having (or wanting) to buy newer, better stuff all the time. Looking at Fuji forums, it seems that everyone cannot wait to replace this Fuji or that Fuji with the next Fuji, and I'm sure that there WILL be a full frame Fuji at some point, which will mean replacing all the lenses too. I can understand the attraction, but I need a bit of stability!

I'm keeping the X100 for sure; it'll remain my little carry-around camera, but I'm *so* looking forward to being back on full-frame again, with an investment in great glass that will hopefully last 10-20yrs. The D800 should be good for at least 5 years too, I think.

Best of luck to you all - hope you continue to enjoy the Fuji journey!

Al.

Hi Al,

no camera will you make a photographer. You can do better with some but finally its only the man behind the cam. As a long time Nikon photographer I can tell you that the 135DC is a great lens but with no AF! As the viewfinder of the D800 is nothing to write home about in terms of manual focusing you won´t be able to do moving objects with this lens but of course beautiful portraits. The 16-40mm is max an OK lens but by no means stellar. In this case you´d have to buy the 14-24. 85/1,4 is great. For me after more than 30 years of photography from 8x10inch to m43 I am glad to travel with small luggage but anyway I wish you much fun and strong shoulders to carry. As you miss long lenses on the Fuji you´d have to go with at least 300mm or 400mm lenses from Nikon. Besides the cost you must be aware of carrying additional 4 to 6 kg per lens.

Regards Erni

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Erni
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Tord S Eriksson
Tord S Eriksson Forum Pro • Posts: 11,123
Re: kinda funny...

Thanks, Greg, for an exhaustive reply! You just moved the big Sonys up to the top of my wanted list!

As (soon) retired that would probably fit my photography style perfect, except for maybe BIF and aerobatic aircraft!

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Tord S Eriksson
Tord S Eriksson Forum Pro • Posts: 11,123
Re: Going back to DSLR...

arcaswissi99 wrote:

Hi Al,

no camera will you make a photographer. You can do better with some but finally its only the man behind the cam. As a long time Nikon photographer I can tell you that the 135DC is a great lens but with no AF! As the viewfinder of the D800 is nothing to write home about in terms of manual focusing you won´t be able to do moving objects with this lens but of course beautiful portraits. The 16-40mm is max an OK lens but by no means stellar. In this case you´d have to buy the 14-24. 85/1,4 is great. For me after more than 30 years of photography from 8x10inch to m43 I am glad to travel with small luggage but anyway I wish you much fun and strong shoulders to carry. As you miss long lenses on the Fuji you´d have to go with at least 300mm or 400mm lenses from Nikon. Besides the cost you must be aware of carrying additional 4 to 6 kg per lens.

Well, that is a bit of an overstatement, as neither my old manual Nikon 400, nor my AF-S 80-400 VR II, weighs much over one kilo!

Stlll, lumping around even three kilos (camera + lens, and monopod) is tiring at the end of the day!

A 600/4 does come up into that weight-range, no matter what brand!

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idefixx Regular Member • Posts: 240
Re: Going back to DSLR...

Al Downie wrote:

Exactly - the last Nikon (and lenses) I bought served me well for almost 15 years! My relationship with Fuji feels like an upgrade rollercoaster. I don't have confidence that the lenses they're now charging £1,000 for will still be useful in 5 years' time.

hellocrowley wrote:

He expects the Nikon setup to last a very long time without wanting to upgrade

Just sad that newer generation Nikon lenses use lead-free solder which basically gives them a 10-year life expectancy (hence the 10 with 2 arrows on the lens). Not sure how conservative that is in practice. But it's essentially been one of the main factors that so far have kept me from making big investments in Nikon glass

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keithinmelbourne
keithinmelbourne Contributing Member • Posts: 918
Re: Going back to DSLR...

Al Downie wrote:

With mixed feelings, I've just returned the 60mm I bought from Amazon, and will be selling the X-E1, 35mm and 18-55mm - I'll be very sorry to let it go. It's been great fun to use, and the image quality is surprisingly good, as you all know.

I've just ordered a Nikon D800 and three Nikkors (85mm f1.4G, 135mm f2DC, 16-35mm f4G) and might buy the Sigma 50mm when it's released, if the price/performance is anything like their 35mm model.

I've surprised myself to be honest - after all my bleating about how disappointing the Df is, and all the excitement about the X-T1 which is without doubt the closest thing yet to the camera I've been longing for, in the end I've given up on the small sensor and gone full-frame with a conventional DSLR that offers NO traditional controls at all. Nuts.

I love the controls on the Fujis, and the light weight and portability. Love the image quality too, as far as it goes - I've loved shooting family portraits, landscapes, travel etc with the X-E1 (and the X100). Sadly though, the AF system is just not responsive enough to make the camera completely versatile, and there are no long prime lenses on the road map, so wildlife and sports (and even hyperactive toddler life) are pretty much excluded. I also have a nagging feeling that, with Fuji, I'd become a consumer rather than a photographer. It sort-of feels like that niche of the market is still evolving too quickly, and I'll end up having (or wanting) to buy newer, better stuff all the time. Looking at Fuji forums, it seems that everyone cannot wait to replace this Fuji or that Fuji with the next Fuji, and I'm sure that there WILL be a full frame Fuji at some point, which will mean replacing all the lenses too. I can understand the attraction, but I need a bit of stability!

I'm keeping the X100 for sure; it'll remain my little carry-around camera, but I'm *so* looking forward to being back on full-frame again, with an investment in great glass that will hopefully last 10-20yrs. The D800 should be good for at least 5 years too, I think.

Best of luck to you all - hope you continue to enjoy the Fuji journey!

Al.

It's always interesting to read posts such as this one. I have a pretty solid FF and APS-C system that wasn't always like that. I switched to MFT with the advent of the Olympus EM-5. I never quite came to grips with its focus or results, so I sold it. I bought a 100D for its size factor and have kept it, but I think its AF is pretty rudimentary. I bought a Canon 70D to bridge that gap and it is fantastic. I bought a Fuji 100S recently and love using it for street work, and last week I bought a Fuji x20 because I was going to a concert where DSLRs were not allowed.

I use all these cameras with varying degrees of intensity. My 1Ds3 with the 85L and 50L; the 6D with the 24-70 f2.8LII; the 70D with the Sigma 18-35 and the 100D with the 40mm f2.8 & the 85 f1.8. The two Fujis I use on the street and carry one of them all the time.

It's a crazy system but it works for me. In short, I don't believe that there is any system where one could claim that size fits all. I like to play to a camera's strengths and use it within those parameters. If I could only afford one camera it would probably be the 6D and 24-70L. The Fuji X100s would be next, because it does a bit of everything that I need. The rest are nice to haves.

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arcaswissi99
arcaswissi99 Regular Member • Posts: 127
Re:Keith you´re wrong...

keithinmelbourne wrote:

Al Downie wrote:

With mixed feelings, I've just returned the 60mm I bought from Amazon, and will be selling the X-E1, 35mm and 18-55mm - I'll be very sorry to let it go. It's been great fun to use, and the image quality is surprisingly good, as you all know.

I've just ordered a Nikon D800 and three Nikkors (85mm f1.4G, 135mm f2DC, 16-35mm f4G) and might buy the Sigma 50mm when it's released, if the price/performance is anything like their 35mm model.

I've surprised myself to be honest - after all my bleating about how disappointing the Df is, and all the excitement about the X-T1 which is without doubt the closest thing yet to the camera I've been longing for, in the end I've given up on the small sensor and gone full-frame with a conventional DSLR that offers NO traditional controls at all. Nuts.

I love the controls on the Fujis, and the light weight and portability. Love the image quality too, as far as it goes - I've loved shooting family portraits, landscapes, travel etc with the X-E1 (and the X100). Sadly though, the AF system is just not responsive enough to make the camera completely versatile, and there are no long prime lenses on the road map, so wildlife and sports (and even hyperactive toddler life) are pretty much excluded. I also have a nagging feeling that, with Fuji, I'd become a consumer rather than a photographer. It sort-of feels like that niche of the market is still evolving too quickly, and I'll end up having (or wanting) to buy newer, better stuff all the time. Looking at Fuji forums, it seems that everyone cannot wait to replace this Fuji or that Fuji with the next Fuji, and I'm sure that there WILL be a full frame Fuji at some point, which will mean replacing all the lenses too. I can understand the attraction, but I need a bit of stability!

I'm keeping the X100 for sure; it'll remain my little carry-around camera, but I'm *so* looking forward to being back on full-frame again, with an investment in great glass that will hopefully last 10-20yrs. The D800 should be good for at least 5 years too, I think.

Best of luck to you all - hope you continue to enjoy the Fuji journey!

Al.

It's always interesting to read posts such as this one. I have a pretty solid FF and APS-C system that wasn't always like that. I switched to MFT with the advent of the Olympus EM-5. I never quite came to grips with its focus or results, so I sold it. I bought a 100D for its size factor and have kept it, but I think its AF is pretty rudimentary. I bought a Canon 70D to bridge that gap and it is fantastic. I bought a Fuji 100S recently and love using it for street work, and last week I bought a Fuji x20 because I was going to a concert where DSLRs were not allowed.

I use all these cameras with varying degrees of intensity. My 1Ds3 with the 85L and 50L; the 6D with the 24-70 f2.8LII; the 70D with the Sigma 18-35 and the 100D with the 40mm f2.8 & the 85 f1.8. The two Fujis I use on the street and carry one of them all the time.

It's a crazy system but it works for me. In short, I don't believe that there is any system where one could claim that size fits all. I like to play to a camera's strengths and use it within those parameters. If I could only afford one camera it would probably be the 6D and 24-70L. The Fuji X100s would be next, because it does a bit of everything that I need. The rest are nice to haves.

there is a camera doing everything for me:

AF and overall speed of Nikon D4, the slowness of a 4x5inch, micro contrast of my DP Merrills, color of the Fujis, optical viewfinder of the Olympus OM2 (probably some of the photographers here weren´t born :)), possible switch to EVF of the Fujiy X-T1 (or something better in the future), high ISO of D4, size of a M43, handling of a D4, a display showing pro photo rgb and discreetness of a Leica M6. Did I forget something? lenses come next time

For me it took some time to see reason that there is no camera to offer everything what I want and of course I can afford.

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Tord S Eriksson
Tord S Eriksson Forum Pro • Posts: 11,123
Re: Mistake

whiteyblack wrote:

liquid stereo wrote:

I think your mistake was thinking/assuming/believing/suspecting that these mirror-less cameras can replace a DSLR for anything resembling sports, wildlife or telephoto shooting. They absolutely cannot. Not now. I'm not sure what all the full-frame nonsense is about.

The stability you speak of comes from knowing your photographic/imaging needs. Good luck with the D800.

The Nikon V1 & V2 can do sports. In spades. It's AF is absolutely DSLR-class; not quite D4 or D800, but close. It's IQ is as good as a D200. For birding it's better because you can use Nikon F-mount glass with a 2.7 crop factor. It's weakness is high ISO IQ. It's not a PRO sports camera, but it's an excellent choice for most people.

If you want ONE system to do it all, you still need a DLSR. After I experienced the V1, I knew I no longer needed my D300 (which is outdated IQ-wise anyway) so I chose Fuji for portraits, landscapes, low light, b&w, and street. And I have the V1 for action and telephoto. And I don't have to lug around a DSLR anymore.

If you don't mind the size and weight, the D800 is one of the best cameras ever built.

Agree, fully, Whiteyblack!

I do most of my photography with my V1, an excellent birding, and sports, camera, having totally replaced my APS-C DSLRs (I still have a NEX-5N, seldom used though - nice for sweep panoramas), except for landscape, and portrait, photography, and low light BIF (birds in flight). Then I use my D600!

A Fuji X-T1 would be an excellent replacement of the V1, maybe not for the D600 :-)!

Some sample images, mostly birds:

D600 can be used for birds not in flight, too!

Just seconds after sunrise (D600)

AF-S lenses on the V1 works well, but not for BIF!

V1 excels when used on static birds!

The fog closing in! Ideal for the D600!

Digiscoping with V1 and the UWA lens. Plus an old Kowa spotting scope!

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tord (at) mindless (dot) com

Mostly Nikon V1, & D600, user

 Tord S Eriksson's gear list:Tord S Eriksson's gear list
Olympus C-8080 Wide Zoom Ricoh GR Nikon 1 V1 Nikon D600 Nikon 1 V2 +25 more
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