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NX300 early impressions

Started Jan 23, 2014 | Discussions
pixelpushing
pixelpushing Veteran Member • Posts: 3,279
NX300 early impressions
3

Not that anyone should particularly care, but since I've had a rather chaotic slew of cameras since around 2007 and have been particularly interested (and invested) in Samsung gear in recent years, I figured I'd chime in with my 2,000 Yuan on this currently-latest model.

Please excuse the Wall of Text, I'm using 'big paragraph' mode.

What impressed me most about the NX100 was its basement bargain price and IQ far better than some critics and forum types would have had us believe. In fact, some of my best shots were with my NX100, and I was quite happy with it after I got over my fear of the 'awful styling' (which wound up being very cool and comfortable with a Horus Bennu case). I found a few neat old Konica Hexanon lenses and got an adapter, further enhancing the flexibility and fun with MF vintage glass. JPEG processing at higher ISO was terrible, though, and the operating speed was mediocre. The hard plastic build (there are grades of plastic, to be sure, but this was slippery and felt a bit cheap) was to be expected for the price, but still not ideal. Controls and ergonomics were really nice, though - control wheel and top wheel plus iFn made for more EV adjustments on the fly than I could use without growing more fingers. No DSLR I've ever used was easier to do quick on the fly fine tuning in M mode. Opted for the 20-50, which at the time seemed the IQ champ compared to the OIS 18-55.

When the NX200 dropped to a low mark after the NX210 was announced, I made the jump and my concerns about 20.3MP high ISO noise were laid to rest. Chroma performance was very easily mitigated in LR with the slightest bump of the NR slider, and I still say the 20.3 is one of the best imaging sensors available, even today. Razor sharp, lovely evocative tones and the shadow range just goes on forever, pullable to the nth degree, when needed. Highlights tended to have a sharp peak, which some felt meant the DR was too limited, but I never had too much problem there as long as I exposed a bit to the left and was always able to bring up the shadows when needed. The built of the camera was light years better than the NX100. And again, the EV wheels and controls where great. Top and back wheels with iFn to round it all off. It just took forever to clear the buffer, and the buffer was very small. I wound up getting the fastest SD card at the time and that helped, but if I wanted to take more than a couple of shots in quick succession, the lockup was annoying.

Then the NX300 was released, and while at the time I was very happily married to my A57, I kept my eye on it and when Sony finally annoyed me to the point of defecting, I had a brief liaison with a 60D (plastic, no micro-adjust for focus, somewhat cheap vs. the 7D) and then jumped on an eBay deal and this time chose the 18-55 OIS III, which by now seems to be considered a wash vs. the 20-50 (plus IS). Here's my thoughts after having mine a few days.

PROS: I went with brown, and it's an attention-grabber. Not as sleek or cool as the all black metal NX200, mind you. But the modernized look with a hint of retro with faux leather wrap is eye-catching. The metal top is uncluttered and thoughtfully arranged. The 18-55 OIS III is surprisingly small and light after coming from Sony SLT and Canon SLR land, and it's very quick and relatively quiet. It has some issue with CA even in corrected JPEGs at certain spots, and I've yet to determine what that's all about, but for now I'm glad I picked it. The images are nice and detailed, a bit neutral and have a slightly more realistic hue than the NX200 did, which always struck me as very slightly cool to the green side of things. Operationally, the speed is improved, though the buffer performance can't even approach the speed demon that was my A57 SLT. Nice to see very slight on the fly RAW compression finally make the scene. That was an issue with the NX200... And WiFi on this camera is quite nice. I had an RX100mk2 for a few weeks and the NFC/WiFi on that thing is a cruel joke by comparison. I've already found myself emailing and uploading pics to FB and email direct from the camera. Hopefully, Dropbox will make the scene as soon as the NX30 shows up. Lastly, AMOLED is great as always, and now it tilts up (and flips over if you get the selfie-friendly 'M' model) and the touch function is welcome, though I'm still acclimating.

CONS: I'm starting to think the NX300 gives up a smidge of sharpness to the previous gen model(s). I have another thread on this subject so I won't go into it too much, except to say that's disappointing given my expectations having come from the NX200. Also, the build, while neat with the molded brown plastic on the back, leather strip and big tilting screen, is surprisingly a step back vs. the jet fighter semi-matte stealthy metal body of the NX200. The buffer speed is certainly improved lags my former A57 and 60D. HOWEVER, it does keep up with the likes of the Fuji X100 series, so when comparing like systems, you don't see a huge difference. Even the Sony A7 has been dinged by critics for its buffer performance... On the minor quibble side of things, I do think it's time we saw an integrated pop-up flash with the NXx00 line and the UI could be more intuitively laid out. EVF, eh. I used to hate this omission, but now I can live with it. I used EVF and OVF rarely enough on my cameras that its absence is not really noted.

OK, that's my take!

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simontramper
simontramper Senior Member • Posts: 2,405
Re: NX300 early impressions
1

Great post and a good read enjoyed it.
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/simon-nx/
Trying to capture the images i see around me.

 simontramper's gear list:simontramper's gear list
Samsung NX200 Samsung Galaxy NX Samsung NX1 Samsung NX 20-50mm F3.5-5.6 ED Samyang 8mm F3.5 Aspherical IF MC Fisheye +10 more
NewForce Senior Member • Posts: 1,263
Re: NX300 early impressions

Yupp, I agreed with Simon, a great written post and nice to read.

Thank you for sharing your objectivity impression about NX300.

We certainly need more Samsung NX cameras lover than hater here.

-- hide signature --

Kenny

arbuz Senior Member • Posts: 2,247
Re: NX300 early impressions

pixelpushing wrote:

CONS: I'm starting to think the NX300 gives up a smidge of sharpness to the previous gen model(s).

I like your review. Regarding above - I must say I have sometimes similar impression. I shot both NX30 and NX300 and occasionally I think low ISO is better on NX20. I have never done any test though so I cannot confirm. certainly noise reduction on high ISO has different patter on these both cameras.

 arbuz's gear list:arbuz's gear list
Nikon D600 Samsung NX300 Panasonic Lumix DMC-G6 Samsung NX30 Panasonic Lumix G Vario 14-45mm F3.5-5.6 ASPH OIS +14 more
tecnoworld
tecnoworld Veteran Member • Posts: 7,232
Re: NX300 early impressions
1

Actually, we need objective users. Haters won't waste their time to write about something they hate and surely they won't buy.

If one bought, spending her money, it's because she does not hate a product. After using it, if she's objective and above all technically skilled, she can draw her objective observations about the camera. She paid for it and has the right to be as objective as possible about it.

This is not a samsung fanclub, so we don't need any blind lovers. No more than we have already (most of which arrived in few months, with very similar profile), for sure.

If you want to see many loving post and no objective (sometimes critic) post, please create a fanclub.

 tecnoworld's gear list:tecnoworld's gear list
Samsung TL500 Samsung NX100 Samsung NX200 Samsung NX300 Samsung NX1 +15 more
carlgt1 Senior Member • Posts: 1,152
fair 'nuff - I'm surprised buffers are still an issue....
1

...not just with nx300 but any camera these days -- I mean a JPG+RAW is maybe 50MB a shot, tops, and RAM is pretty cheap so a 2GB buffer should be pretty cheap to add and would give 40 continuous shots at the very least.....

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tecnoworld
tecnoworld Veteran Member • Posts: 7,232
Re: fair 'nuff - I'm surprised buffers are still an issue....

Especially for a memory manufacturer that sells it to anybody else.

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tjobbe
tjobbe Senior Member • Posts: 1,430
Re: NX300 early impressions
1

arbuz wrote:

pixelpushing wrote:

CONS: I'm starting to think the NX300 gives up a smidge of sharpness to the previous gen model(s).

I like your review. Regarding above - I must say I have sometimes similar impression. I shot both NX30 and NX300 and occasionally I think low ISO is better on NX20. I have never done any test though so I cannot confirm. certainly noise reduction on high ISO has different patter on these both cameras.

the measurements of the NX200 indicates that they oversharpend the JPEG way more than in the NX20 and NX300 hence he impression is backed up by facts.

Nevertheless oversharpening is artificial and if you really liked the look of the NX200 you need to shoot raw and push the slider in LR

I personally develop my RAW's in LR as well with some oversharping but mainly for edges only

 tjobbe's gear list:tjobbe's gear list
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pixelpushing
OP pixelpushing Veteran Member • Posts: 3,279
Re: fair 'nuff - I'm surprised buffers are still an issue....

Well, we're talking about a very small computing device that needs to be highly power efficient and handle quite a bit of image processing and hardware actuating (servo motors, etc.) in a very short amount of time. As I pointed out, buffer issues are not exactly exclusive to Samsung. Even the X100 I had a brief dalliance with had leisurely shooting, and that after extensive FW updating and much outcry among Fuji fans.

I know some here seem to think Samsung should be the master of all trades since they have a hand in various product lines and such, but it's not really that simple. One division can't necessarily walk over to the other and grab 100,000 processors, solder them directly into their own product and have it all run smoothly from there.

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pixelpushing
OP pixelpushing Veteran Member • Posts: 3,279
Re: NX300 early impressions

tjobbe wrote:

arbuz wrote:

pixelpushing wrote:

CONS: I'm starting to think the NX300 gives up a smidge of sharpness to the previous gen model(s).

I like your review. Regarding above - I must say I have sometimes similar impression. I shot both NX30 and NX300 and occasionally I think low ISO is better on NX20. I have never done any test though so I cannot confirm. certainly noise reduction on high ISO has different patter on these both cameras.

the measurements of the NX200 indicates that they oversharpend the JPEG way more than in the NX20 and NX300 hence he impression is backed up by facts.

Nevertheless oversharpening is artificial and if you really liked the look of the NX200 you need to shoot raw and push the slider in LR

I personally develop my RAW's in LR as well with some oversharping but mainly for edges only

Where did you see measurements that implicated the sharpening of the prior models' JPEG engine? I'd be interested to check that out.

Agreed that oversharpening is typically lossy in nature and often abused. Sometimes, to increase perceived sharpness in an image, I apply heavy sharpening (avoiding the granular artifacts as much as possible) and then resample at lower MP using a method that accentuates edges.

 pixelpushing's gear list:pixelpushing's gear list
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arbuz Senior Member • Posts: 2,247
Re: NX300 early impressions

tjobbe wrote:

arbuz wrote:

pixelpushing wrote:

CONS: I'm starting to think the NX300 gives up a smidge of sharpness to the previous gen model(s).

I like your review. Regarding above - I must say I have sometimes similar impression. I shot both NX30 and NX300 and occasionally I think low ISO is better on NX20. I have never done any test though so I cannot confirm. certainly noise reduction on high ISO has different patter on these both cameras.

the measurements of the NX200 indicates that they oversharpend the JPEG way more than in the NX20 and NX300 hence he impression is backed up by facts.

Nevertheless oversharpening is artificial and if you really liked the look of the NX200 you need to shoot raw and push the slider in LR

I personally develop my RAW's in LR as well with some oversharping but mainly for edges only

I never shot jpg (ok, once or twice because I wanted to capture panorama). I usually see pictures in faststone.

 arbuz's gear list:arbuz's gear list
Nikon D600 Samsung NX300 Panasonic Lumix DMC-G6 Samsung NX30 Panasonic Lumix G Vario 14-45mm F3.5-5.6 ASPH OIS +14 more
tjobbe
tjobbe Senior Member • Posts: 1,430
Re: NX300 early impressions
1

pixelpushing wrote:

Where did you see measurements that implicated the sharpening of the prior models' JPEG engine? I'd be interested to check that out.

finally found the one I was searching for related to the oversharpening on NX200

  • Format JPEG RAW
  • LP/BH / LP/BH / – / V/N / Ble LP/BH / LP/BH / – / V/N / Ble
  • ISO100 Auflösung/DL/Kurtosis/Rauschen/Dynamik 1972 / 963 / 0,7 / 0,8 / 9,7 1837 / 613 / 0,3 / 0,8 / 10,0
  • ISO400 Auflösung/DL/Kurtosis/Rauschen/Dynamik 1803 / 672 / 1,3 / 1,0 / 9,3 1866 / 494 / 0,3 / 1,0 / 9,0

you can see that the measured in camera JPEG ISO100 resolution is higher than the one developed out of a flat RAW one (its from a german magazin...)

 tjobbe's gear list:tjobbe's gear list
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tecnoworld
tecnoworld Veteran Member • Posts: 7,232
Re: fair 'nuff - I'm surprised buffers are still an issue....

Comperitors have at least 2x the buffer depth of nx300. I posted numbers way back. Now, finally it seems that nx30 will fill this gap but barely (and late).

 tecnoworld's gear list:tecnoworld's gear list
Samsung TL500 Samsung NX100 Samsung NX200 Samsung NX300 Samsung NX1 +15 more
digitalcuriosity Senior Member • Posts: 1,169
Re: NX300 early impressions

I am a long time Canon user with a 50D 60D 70D and 7D. Since buying a Samsung phone and two Samsung tablets,i noticed for the first time the Samsung cameras in their new space at my local Best Buy.

I was impressed with the cool and great builds of these cameras. Now I am reading this Samsung forum, and am thinking of getting the Samsung package (Samsung NX300 20.3MP Compact System Camera with 18-55mm Lens - Brown & Extra 50-200mm Lens) What do you other readers think?

Dave Gibbs Regular Member • Posts: 438
Re: fair 'nuff - I'm surprised buffers are still an issue....

carlgt1 wrote:

...not just with nx300 but any camera these days -- I mean a JPG+RAW is maybe 50MB a shot, tops, and RAM is pretty cheap so a 2GB buffer should be pretty cheap to add and would give 40 continuous shots at the very least.....

when camera is in raw+jpeg mode does it take a raw then make a jpeg copy in camera...

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pixelpushing
OP pixelpushing Veteran Member • Posts: 3,279
Some context: Buffer numbers.
3

tecnoworld wrote:

Comperitors have at least 2x the buffer depth of nx300. I posted numbers way back. Now, finally it seems that nx30 will fill this gap but barely (and late).

Since I can continue to shoot before the buffer fully purges, I don't really have a huge problem with it. More depth would be better, definitely, but I wouldn't say 'all' competitors have 'at least 2x' buffer size, because they don't. Samsung isn't exactly leading the pack in buffer size, but they're not bringing up the rear, either.

Imaging-Resource tests on mirrorless models (with a 60D in there for fun):

Camera_          _    Time to Purge (sec)_        RAW+JPEG Buffer (pics)

Samsung NX300          18* (11)                             5
Fuji X100                    25                                     8
Fuji X100S                  11                                     8
Ricoh GR (V)               3                                      4
Sigma DP2M                44                                    7
Canon EOS-M              4                                      3
Canon G1-X                 4                                      6
Canon 60D                  27                                    7
Sony NEX-6                 12                                    9
Sony NEX-5N               7                                      5
Sony A3000                8                                      5
Nikon Coolpix A            10                                    10

...firmware revs can change these times, for example my NX300 running second to latest FW purges 5 RAW+JPEG in about 10.5 seconds, not 18.

Out of the APS-C mirrorless compact cameras shown here, the NX300 buffer size matches two (Sony) and bests two (Ricoh and Canon). The mean average of these, including the $1100 Coolpix A and $1300 X100S, is 6.41. I think it bears noting that the street price for a full kit NX300 is currently below $500, which puts it in the bottom two or three cheapest models, here.

So while I think you have a valid complaint that the NX300 is indeed somewhat below average for this segment in terms of buffer size, maybe we should remember that NO camera can be the best at everything: Cheapest, fastest, best built, best looking, smallest, best features, best accessories, best IQ, etc. etc.

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pixelpushing
OP pixelpushing Veteran Member • Posts: 3,279
Re: NX300 early impressions

digitalcuriosity wrote:

I am a long time Canon user with a 50D 60D 70D and 7D. Since buying a Samsung phone and two Samsung tablets,i noticed for the first time the Samsung cameras in their new space at my local Best Buy.

I was impressed with the cool and great builds of these cameras. Now I am reading this Samsung forum, and am thinking of getting the Samsung package (Samsung NX300 20.3MP Compact System Camera with 18-55mm Lens - Brown & Extra 50-200mm Lens) What do you other readers think?

It depends on your needs, but if you keep your 70D and/or 7D (assuming that's where you're at right now), the NX300 would be an excellent supplement. As a standalone, it's less capable by comparison as a do-it-all system, but it can still, in fact, do almost all. Just with a few caveats, as detailed in this forum.

But I've been overall quite pleased with the NX line, so I encourage getting into it. The 18-55 and 50-200 should be good, to that I might suggest adding the 10mm fisheye or 30mm f2.

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tecnoworld
tecnoworld Veteran Member • Posts: 7,232
Re: Some context: Buffer numbers.

Where are fuji x-a1 (and brothers) and the older nex7? I don't consider fixed lens cameras to be competitors to nx.

For me everything below 8-9 frames in raw is very poor. For you it may be different and I don't want to change your mind.

And, given the sales, if samsung does not get the best in everything (and by a large margin) they won't ever sell decently.

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Samsung TL500 Samsung NX100 Samsung NX200 Samsung NX300 Samsung NX1 +15 more
digitalcuriosity Senior Member • Posts: 1,169
Re: NX300 early impressions

pixelpushing wrote:

digitalcuriosity wrote:

I am a long time Canon user with a 50D 60D 70D and 7D. Since buying a Samsung phone and two Samsung tablets,i noticed for the first time the Samsung cameras in their new space at my local Best Buy.

I was impressed with the cool and great builds of these cameras. Now I am reading this Samsung forum, and am thinking of getting the Samsung package (Samsung NX300 20.3MP Compact System Camera with 18-55mm Lens - Brown & Extra 50-200mm Lens) What do you other readers think?

It depends on your needs, but if you keep your 70D and/or 7D (assuming that's where you're at right now), the NX300 would be an excellent supplement. As a standalone, it's less capable by comparison as a do-it-all system, but it can still, in fact, do almost all. Just with a few caveats, as detailed in this forum.

But I've been overall quite pleased with the NX line, so I encourage getting into it. The 18-55 and 50-200 should be good, to that I might suggest adding the 10mm fisheye or 30mm f2.

Thank you for the reply, and your advice.

ttbek Veteran Member • Posts: 4,869
Re: fair 'nuff - I'm surprised buffers are still an issue....

pixelpushing wrote:

Well, we're talking about a very small computing device that needs to be highly power efficient and handle quite a bit of image processing and hardware actuating (servo motors, etc.) in a very short amount of time. As I pointed out, buffer issues are not exactly exclusive to Samsung. Even the X100 I had a brief dalliance with had leisurely shooting, and that after extensive FW updating and much outcry among Fuji fans.

I know some here seem to think Samsung should be the master of all trades since they have a hand in various product lines and such, but it's not really that simple. One division can't necessarily walk over to the other and grab 100,000 processors, solder them directly into their own product and have it all run smoothly from there.

True enough, which is why I don't have any major complaints about the NX300.  If the NX1 though is really going to be pro level though, it will be held to much more exacting standards, so I'm hoping they go more along the lines of make it do everything and throw in a huge battery on a huge camera rather than try to make too many compromises by aiming at small and cheap.

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