nodal points for the kit zoom 18-55

Started Jan 20, 2014 | Discussions
Christof21 Veteran Member • Posts: 3,623
nodal points for the kit zoom 18-55

Hi,

Does anybody know where they are (for the different focal lenghts) ?

Thanks a lot,

Christophe

nixda Veteran Member • Posts: 5,515
Re: nodal points for the kit zoom 18-55

Christof21 wrote:

Hi,

Does anybody know where they are (for the different focal lenghts) ?

Thanks a lot,

Christophe

Determining absolute values is a bit difficult, because it's not quite clear (to me, anyway) where the sensor plane is. So, please take the following values with a grain of salt and confirm with your own setup.

focal length: mm from middle of back

18: 69
23: 62
35: 52
55: 42

 nixda's gear list:nixda's gear list
Fujifilm X-E1 Fujifilm XF 14mm F2.8 R Fujifilm XF 18-55mm F2.8-4 R LM OIS Fujifilm XF 55-200mm F3.5-4.8 R LM OIS Fujifilm XF 27mm F2.8 +1 more
Red G8R
Red G8R Senior Member • Posts: 1,801
Re: nodal points for the kit zoom 18-55

Christof21 wrote:

Hi,

Does anybody know where they are (for the different focal lenghts) ?

Thanks a lot,

Christophe

Nodal points? Please explain and what's its use.

-- hide signature --

Peter
Ontario, Canada

 Red G8R's gear list:Red G8R's gear list
Nikon D4 Fujifilm X-T1 Nikon D500 Fujifilm X-T2 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR +16 more
Mike Guffin
Mike Guffin Regular Member • Posts: 494
Re: nodal points for the kit zoom 18-55

Red G8R wrote:

Christof21 wrote:

Hi,

Does anybody know where they are (for the different focal lenghts) ?

Thanks a lot,

Christophe

Nodal points? Please explain and what's its use.

The measurement from the film plane (or the sensor plane) to the spot in the lens where the parallax effect is eliminated when shooting panoramas... I think... yea, that's it...

 Mike Guffin's gear list:Mike Guffin's gear list
Fujifilm X-H1 Fujifilm XF 56mm F1.2 R Fujifilm 16-55mm F2.8R LM WR Fujifilm XF 35mm F2 R WR
OP Christof21 Veteran Member • Posts: 3,623
Re: nodal points for the kit zoom 18-55

nixda wrote:

Christof21 wrote:

Hi,

Does anybody know where they are (for the different focal lenghts) ?

Thanks a lot,

Christophe

Determining absolute values is a bit difficult, because it's not quite clear (to me, anyway) where the sensor plane is. So, please take the following values with a grain of salt and confirm with your own setup.

focal length: mm from middle of back

18: 69
23: 62
35: 52
55: 42

Thanks for sharing

I can not confirm now, I am investigating on buying a pano head (maybe Ninja mkII) but I will confirm when I have the gear.

Which pano head do you have ?

viking79
viking79 Forum Pro • Posts: 14,151
Re: nodal points for the kit zoom 18-55
1

The easy way to estimate the point of no parallax is to look in the front of the lens and they are where the aperture appears to be (complicated to put into words).

The aperture in reality is somewhere in the middle of the lens, but when you look in through the front of the lens it will appear to be somewhere other than where it is physically located.  If you pinch the side of the lens with your fingers where the aperture appears to be, this is the no parallax point.

Eric

 viking79's gear list:viking79's gear list
Sony a7R Samsung NX1 Samsung NX 30mm F2 Pancake Samsung NX 85mm F1.4 ED SSA Samsung NX 60mm F2.8 Macro ED OIS SSA +5 more
Astrophotographer 10 Forum Pro • Posts: 12,157
Re: nodal points for the kit zoom 18-55

My understanding is the nodal point is where the aperture is. That does not vary with focal length in a zoom (or does it  I am assuming it does not move).

So look inside the lens and get a feel for it. I imagine also that would line up with the aperture ring most likely. Perhaps there is a mark on the lens where the aperture iris is located.

Greg.

 Astrophotographer 10's gear list:Astrophotographer 10's gear list
Sony a7R II Sony a7R III Sony FE 55mm F1.8 Zeiss Batis 85mm F1.8 Zeiss Loxia 21mm F2.8 +1 more
nixda Veteran Member • Posts: 5,515
Re: nodal points for the kit zoom 18-55
2

Astrophotographer 10 wrote:

My understanding is the nodal point is where the aperture is. That does not vary with focal length in a zoom (or does it I am assuming it does not move).

So look inside the lens and get a feel for it. I imagine also that would line up with the aperture ring most likely. Perhaps there is a mark on the lens where the aperture iris is located.

Greg.

Nothing beats actually determining the nodal points

Here is what I do:

  1. I put two thin, vertical objects (woodworkers' tri-squares, in my case) on our dining table, one at the front, one at the back. Distance is about 5 feet.
  2. The camera is mounted on a nodal slide on a tripod about 3 feet away from the front object and leveled.
  3. I align everything such that the two vertical objects are on top of each other and in the center of the LCD screen on the camera
  4. I rotate the camera left and right, using greatest possible digital zoom to get a good view of the objects (move the focus box to get the objects on the screen when they are at the far left or right). Use a small aperture to get everything sharp.
  5. Then I slide the camera back and forth and find the distance on the nodal slide where the objects stay on top of each other throughout the entire rotation range, from left to right. That's the nodal point for a given focal length.
  6. I then repeat steps 4-5 for every focal length I am interested in.

That's how I got my numbers for the FUJINON XF 18-55mm f/2.8-4 OIS Zoom Lens for Fujifilm X-Mount System Cameras.

 nixda's gear list:nixda's gear list
Fujifilm X-E1 Fujifilm XF 14mm F2.8 R Fujifilm XF 18-55mm F2.8-4 R LM OIS Fujifilm XF 55-200mm F3.5-4.8 R LM OIS Fujifilm XF 27mm F2.8 +1 more
AlbertTheLazy
AlbertTheLazy Veteran Member • Posts: 7,493
Re: nodal points for the kit zoom 18-55

nixda wrote:

Nothing beats actually determining the nodal points

Here is what I do:

  1. I put two thin, vertical objects (woodworkers' tri-squares, in my case) on our dining table, one at the front, one at the back. Distance is about 5 feet.
  2. The camera is mounted on a nodal slide on a tripod about 3 feet away from the front object and leveled.
  3. I align everything such that the two vertical objects are on top of each other and in the center of the LCD screen on the camera
  4. I rotate the camera left and right, using greatest possible digital zoom to get a good view of the objects (move the focus box to get the objects on the screen when they are at the far left or right). Use a small aperture to get everything sharp.
  5. Then I slide the camera back and forth and find the distance on the nodal slide where the objects stay on top of each other throughout the entire rotation range, from left to right. That's the nodal point for a given focal length.
  6. I then repeat steps 4-5 for every focal length I am interested in.

That's how I got my numbers for the FUJINON XF 18-55mm f/2.8-4 OIS Zoom Lens for Fujifilm X-Mount System Cameras.

That's a fair bit of effort. Out of interest, how much difference does it make to the results of shooting panoramas where the subject plane (or arc ?) is more than a few meters (yards) away from the camera? Say the ceiling of a church or maybe a streetscape.

Genuine question. I've only ever done basic panoramas either hand held or with the camera on a bog standard p/t head without fore and aft adjustments.

-- hide signature --

Albert
Every photograph is an abstraction from reality.
Most people are more interested in the picture than the image.

 AlbertTheLazy's gear list:AlbertTheLazy's gear list
Canon PowerShot G15 Fujifilm X-T1 Sigma 70-300mm F4-5.6 APO DG Macro Fujifilm XF 18mm F2 R Fujifilm XF 35mm F1.4 R +4 more
Astrophotographer 10 Forum Pro • Posts: 12,157
Re: nodal points for the kit zoom 18-55

That's  great system. I'll copy this post for future reference. Thanks for posting your technique.

Greg.

 Astrophotographer 10's gear list:Astrophotographer 10's gear list
Sony a7R II Sony a7R III Sony FE 55mm F1.8 Zeiss Batis 85mm F1.8 Zeiss Loxia 21mm F2.8 +1 more
nixda Veteran Member • Posts: 5,515
Re: nodal points for the kit zoom 18-55

AlbertInFrance wrote:

nixda wrote:

Nothing beats actually determining the nodal points

Here is what I do:

  1. I put two thin, vertical objects (woodworkers' tri-squares, in my case) on our dining table, one at the front, one at the back. Distance is about 5 feet.
  2. The camera is mounted on a nodal slide on a tripod about 3 feet away from the front object and leveled.
  3. I align everything such that the two vertical objects are on top of each other and in the center of the LCD screen on the camera
  4. I rotate the camera left and right, using greatest possible digital zoom to get a good view of the objects (move the focus box to get the objects on the screen when they are at the far left or right). Use a small aperture to get everything sharp.
  5. Then I slide the camera back and forth and find the distance on the nodal slide where the objects stay on top of each other throughout the entire rotation range, from left to right. That's the nodal point for a given focal length.
  6. I then repeat steps 4-5 for every focal length I am interested in.

That's how I got my numbers for the FUJINON XF 18-55mm f/2.8-4 OIS Zoom Lens for Fujifilm X-Mount System Cameras.

That's a fair bit of effort. Out of interest, how much difference does it make to the results of shooting panoramas where the subject plane (or arc ?) is more than a few meters (yards) away from the camera? Say the ceiling of a church or maybe a streetscape.

Genuine question. I've only ever done basic panoramas either hand held or with the camera on a bog standard p/t head without fore and aft adjustments.

It's just a few minutes of tinkering, so I don't think it's much effort at all, given the results.

But I've shot panoramas without equipment too, with very mixed results, until I decided to get dedicated panorama setups (the latest of which I just recently described here). I do print my best panoramas, and that's where I don't want any of the typical artifacts.

No special equipment is needed when there are no foreground objects. The farther away the scene, the easier it becomes. But, when shooting handheld, or otherwise rigged, it may not be possible to keep the camera level in all images, or have perfect overlaps between them, in which case one loses some of the portions on top and bottom of the final panoramas. The wider the panoramas, the more one loses, usually.

I generally try to include foreground objects in my panoramas to give the scene a sense of spatial relationship, so I do need dedicated equipment.

 nixda's gear list:nixda's gear list
Fujifilm X-E1 Fujifilm XF 14mm F2.8 R Fujifilm XF 18-55mm F2.8-4 R LM OIS Fujifilm XF 55-200mm F3.5-4.8 R LM OIS Fujifilm XF 27mm F2.8 +1 more
stulevine
stulevine Regular Member • Posts: 213
Re: nodal points for the kit zoom 18-55

Christof21 wrote:

Hi,

Does anybody know where they are (for the different focal lenghts) ?

Thanks a lot,

Christophe

It depends on the camera and lens. And to determine the sensor plane of the camera, look for the theta like symbol ϴ on top of the camera (most cameras have this symbol including X cameras).

And, it is, as was mentioned here, the point from the sensor to the convergence point in the lens is where your tripod rotation point lies. The best explanation/tutorial I've found online for this is on the Reall Right Stuff web site:

http://www.reallyrightstuff.com/s.nl/it.I/id.31/.f

Here they explain how you can use visual cues to determine, rather precisely, the nodal point of the lens (either prime or zoom).  I've use this same method several times after purchasing their Pano Elements package several years ago.

 stulevine's gear list:stulevine's gear list
Fujifilm X-T2 Fujifilm XF 35mm F1.4 R Fujifilm XF 60mm F2.4 R Macro Fujifilm XF 14mm F2.8 R Fujifilm XF 18-55mm F2.8-4 R LM OIS +19 more
nixda Veteran Member • Posts: 5,515
Re: nodal points for the kit zoom 18-55

stulevine wrote:

Christof21 wrote:

Hi,

Does anybody know where they are (for the different focal lenghts) ?

Thanks a lot,

Christophe

It depends on the camera and lens. And to determine the sensor plane of the camera, look for the theta like symbol ϴ on top of the camera (most cameras have this symbol including X cameras).

And, it is, as was mentioned here, the point from the sensor to the convergence point in the lens is where your tripod rotation point lies. The best explanation/tutorial I've found online for this is on the Reall Right Stuff web site:

http://www.reallyrightstuff.com/s.nl/it.I/id.31/.f

Here they explain how you can use visual cues to determine, rather precisely, the nodal point of the lens (either prime or zoom). I've use this same method several times after purchasing their Pano Elements package several years ago.

Now, if only they could put the sensor plane indicator somewhere on the side of the body. It's difficult for me to exactly project that indicator onto the nodal slide. That's why I usually use some other reference point, such as the center of the body as there often is a seam in the housing.

 nixda's gear list:nixda's gear list
Fujifilm X-E1 Fujifilm XF 14mm F2.8 R Fujifilm XF 18-55mm F2.8-4 R LM OIS Fujifilm XF 55-200mm F3.5-4.8 R LM OIS Fujifilm XF 27mm F2.8 +1 more
stulevine
stulevine Regular Member • Posts: 213
Re: nodal points for the kit zoom 18-55

nixda wrote:

stulevine wrote:

Christof21 wrote:

Hi,

Does anybody know where they are (for the different focal lenghts) ?

Thanks a lot,

Christophe

It depends on the camera and lens. And to determine the sensor plane of the camera, look for the theta like symbol ϴ on top of the camera (most cameras have this symbol including X cameras).

And, it is, as was mentioned here, the point from the sensor to the convergence point in the lens is where your tripod rotation point lies. The best explanation/tutorial I've found online for this is on the Reall Right Stuff web site:

http://www.reallyrightstuff.com/s.nl/it.I/id.31/.f

Here they explain how you can use visual cues to determine, rather precisely, the nodal point of the lens (either prime or zoom). I've use this same method several times after purchasing their Pano Elements package several years ago.

Now, if only they could put the sensor plane indicator somewhere on the side of the body. It's difficult for me to exactly project that indicator onto the nodal slide. That's why I usually use some other reference point, such as the center of the body as there often is a seam in the housing.

Interesting.  Since my nodal slide has marking on top, it's rather easy for me use a top view to set the nodal point for the lens.

 stulevine's gear list:stulevine's gear list
Fujifilm X-T2 Fujifilm XF 35mm F1.4 R Fujifilm XF 60mm F2.4 R Macro Fujifilm XF 14mm F2.8 R Fujifilm XF 18-55mm F2.8-4 R LM OIS +19 more
nixda Veteran Member • Posts: 5,515
Re: nodal points for the kit zoom 18-55

stulevine wrote:

nixda wrote:

stulevine wrote:

Christof21 wrote:

Hi,

Does anybody know where they are (for the different focal lenghts) ?

Thanks a lot,

Christophe

It depends on the camera and lens. And to determine the sensor plane of the camera, look for the theta like symbol ϴ on top of the camera (most cameras have this symbol including X cameras).

And, it is, as was mentioned here, the point from the sensor to the convergence point in the lens is where your tripod rotation point lies. The best explanation/tutorial I've found online for this is on the Reall Right Stuff web site:

http://www.reallyrightstuff.com/s.nl/it.I/id.31/.f

Here they explain how you can use visual cues to determine, rather precisely, the nodal point of the lens (either prime or zoom). I've use this same method several times after purchasing their Pano Elements package several years ago.

Now, if only they could put the sensor plane indicator somewhere on the side of the body. It's difficult for me to exactly project that indicator onto the nodal slide. That's why I usually use some other reference point, such as the center of the body as there often is a seam in the housing.

Interesting. Since my nodal slide has marking on top, it's rather easy for me use a top view to set the nodal point for the lens.

Setting the lens to the nodal point is not the problem. Communicating to others what the exact distances are is. It's bout ±1mm in my hands with my X-E1, but I'm sure I could be more precise if I used calipers or something. Just haven't done it.

 nixda's gear list:nixda's gear list
Fujifilm X-E1 Fujifilm XF 14mm F2.8 R Fujifilm XF 18-55mm F2.8-4 R LM OIS Fujifilm XF 55-200mm F3.5-4.8 R LM OIS Fujifilm XF 27mm F2.8 +1 more
OP Christof21 Veteran Member • Posts: 3,623
Re: nodal points for the kit zoom 18-55

nixda wrote:

Christof21 wrote:

Hi,

Does anybody know where they are (for the different focal lenghts) ?

Thanks a lot,

Christophe

Determining absolute values is a bit difficult, because it's not quite clear (to me, anyway) where the sensor plane is. So, please take the following values with a grain of salt and confirm with your own setup.

focal length: mm from middle of back

18: 69
23: 62
35: 52
55: 42

Hi,

I have just checked . Very accurate indeed !! I can not be as precise as you are.

The 23mm f1.4 is about 50, if you have something more accurate, I will be interested.

What about the 55-200 ?

Thanks again for sharing,

Christophe

nixda Veteran Member • Posts: 5,515
Re: nodal points for the kit zoom 18-55

Christof21 wrote:

nixda wrote:

Christof21 wrote:

Hi,

Does anybody know where they are (for the different focal lenghts) ?

Thanks a lot,

Christophe

Determining absolute values is a bit difficult, because it's not quite clear (to me, anyway) where the sensor plane is. So, please take the following values with a grain of salt and confirm with your own setup.

focal length: mm from middle of back

18: 69
23: 62
35: 52
55: 42

Hi,

I have just checked . Very accurate indeed !! I can not be as precise as you are.

The 23mm f1.4 is about 50, if you have something more accurate, I will be interested.

What about the 55-200 ?

Thanks again for sharing,

Christophe

I only have the 18-55mm and the 14mm, sorry.

 nixda's gear list:nixda's gear list
Fujifilm X-E1 Fujifilm XF 14mm F2.8 R Fujifilm XF 18-55mm F2.8-4 R LM OIS Fujifilm XF 55-200mm F3.5-4.8 R LM OIS Fujifilm XF 27mm F2.8 +1 more
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