Is SLT dead or alive ?

Started Jan 17, 2014 | Discussions
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phototherapy Contributing Member • Posts: 863
Is SLT dead or alive ?
VirtualMirage
VirtualMirage Veteran Member • Posts: 3,660
Re: Is SLT dead or alive ?
1

It could be similar to how the on sensor PDAF on the A99 works, which is used as an assist to the main PDAF sensor when using settings such as AF-D.

If so, it would be nice if they managed to improve upon it further where it wasn't lens specific limited.  It would also be nice if could be used as an always on, 2-step focus confirmation for quicker, more accurate focus lock-ons (ie, a step beyond MFA) when used in conjunction with the dedicated PDAF sensor.

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Paul

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(unknown member) Forum Member • Posts: 73
Re: Is SLT dead or alive ?

Dead or alive? The answer to that is 'maybe'.

One rumour says the A77 successor will have on-sensor PDAF, another says the SLT mirror is being improved to reduce light loss.  These may be contradicting, or they may not. Or maybe it's the nature of rumour websites that they have to generate traffic to bring in advertising revenue, so accuracy is not necessarily the first priority.

In my view the important thing is that these are rumours and therefore totally worth ignoring.

DT200 Contributing Member • Posts: 835
flip-up mirror would be awesome
2

Mirror down when you need real pdaf and mirror up when you want more light!

nandbytes Senior Member • Posts: 5,579
Re: Neither, its an undead!!! /nt
1

No text.

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LeicaBOSS
LeicaBOSS Regular Member • Posts: 432
Re: Is SLT dead or alive ?
1

I'm not an Autofocus elitist - so nearly imperceptible differences in AF "speed" are meaningless to me. For this reason, I'd be more than happy to trade in a millisecond or two on the AF side to have a great Sony A mount camera without the stupid SLT mirror.

I also like the accuracy better with cameras like the A7 and A7r - none of this shift error with fast lenses.

-B

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Alan_S
Alan_S Senior Member • Posts: 1,664
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doctorxring Senior Member • Posts: 1,332
Re: Is SLT dead or alive ?
2

.

SLT has been dying since it first hit the market.

Never was intended to live forever.

Just a matter of time.

I'm happy with my two SLT's. But I guess I will be happier with whatever Sony comes up with to replace them.

.

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Seeky Contributing Member • Posts: 770
Re: Is SLT dead or alive ?
4

Well, I switched my A57 on today, and behold! upon pressing the shutter button I felt a heartbeat... The sensor was given light... an image was formed... and life was fixed in a tangible form... proof of it couldn't be overseen...

All philosophy aside, the A99 already has PDAF on sensor (Dual AF), and from what I'm seeing, OSPDAF only has nowhere near the capability of dedicated PDAF. In the A99, it cleverly assist PDAF and provide depth information to the AF system.

I don't care what technology is dead or alive, only if it works, and provide the convenience I'm accustomed to nowadays. It seems the A77 successor also gets OSPDAF, which may be a good sign, if only the AF point spread could be a little bit wider...

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tbcass
tbcass Forum Pro • Posts: 23,908
Re: Is SLT dead or alive ?
3

That is not good news if true because with the A7 the on sensor PDAF is significantly inferior to the AF of the SLTs. For me fast AF is much more important than gaining a measly 1/2 stop of light.

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Tom
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K E Hoffman
K E Hoffman Senior Member • Posts: 4,832
Probably NOT!!
1

I think the same site told us the new cameras would have an SLT with 80% light transmission vs the current 70%?  And if you read this.. its about hits.. the actual rumor is a YAWWWN

Breaking News "New camera will have same technology in older cameras like A99 and A7"

The patent is filed. For a mirror-less DSLR format camera. does not mean it is ready to be a product.

SONY as of yet has not made the onsensor PD focus as good as the SLT

HOWEVER  the A99 already has this feature of hybrid focus.. so it isn't even really a rumor that the A77 replacement would probably have it.

SO NO  not DEAD until Sony can do a full a-mount that can AF as fast as the A77.

phototherapy wrote:

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr4-a77-successor-has-on-sensor-pdaf/

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K.E.H. >> Shooting between raindrops in WA<<
Don't Panic!.. these are just opinions... go take some pictures..

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tbcass
tbcass Forum Pro • Posts: 23,908
Re: Is SLT dead or alive ?
3

LeicaBOSS wrote:

I'm not an Autofocus elitist - so nearly imperceptible differences in AF "speed" are meaningless to me. For this reason, I'd be more than happy to trade in a millisecond or two on the AF side to have a great Sony A mount camera without the stupid SLT mirror.

I also like the accuracy better with cameras like the A7 and A7r - none of this shift error with fast lenses.

The difference in AF speed is much more than a millisecond or two. It's big enough that it can make or break getting an in focus shot for sports or children playing. In low light the speed difference is quite obvious. The focusing accuracy with my 35mm f1.8 wide open is very good with both my A65 and A77. All in all my experience tells me you are incorrect on every one of your points. IMO the SLT is great and the 1/2 stop of light loss is insignificant and below iso 1600 has no effect on IQ.

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Tom
Look at the picture, not the pixels
------------
Miss use of the ability to do 100% pixel peeping is the bane of digital photography because it causes people to fret over inconsequential issues.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/63683676@N07/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/25301400@N00/

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LeicaBOSS
LeicaBOSS Regular Member • Posts: 432
Re: Is SLT dead or alive ?
1

...but you haven't missed those shots with an A7 or A7r, for example?  Or a NEX-7? Right?

I've shot birds in flight with a Canon EOS-M, baseball and indoor dodgeball with a NEX-7, fast-paced street with an A7r. Never had significant miss rates with any of these. I also have an A77. I like it, too - but I'd be crazy to say that one should get significantly more shots in focus with it.

Just even a tiny bit of skill and technique, and nobody should be missing shots with any of these.

So, I'd hate to put it this way, but if you really can't nail nearly all of your shots with on-chip PDAF - as good as it is now - take the 1/2 stop and just practice just a little harder.

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From time to time, I point my camera at the right things. This is generally when I forget everything I've learned.

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K E Hoffman
K E Hoffman Senior Member • Posts: 4,832
Re: Is SLT dead or alive ?
1

LeicaBOSS wrote:

...but you haven't missed those shots with an A7 or A7r, for example? Or a NEX-7? Right?

I've shot birds in flight with a Canon EOS-M, baseball and indoor dodgeball with a NEX-7, fast-paced street with an A7r. Never had significant miss rates with any of these. I also have an A77. I like it, too - but I'd be crazy to say that one should get significantly more shots in focus with it.

Just even a tiny bit of skill and technique, and nobody should be missing shots with any of these.

So, I'd hate to put it this way, but if you really can't nail nearly all of your shots with on-chip PDAF - as good as it is now - take the 1/2 stop and just practice just a little harder.

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From time to time, I point my camera at the right things. This is generally when I forget everything I've learned.

There are lots of techniques for shooting even manual focus.. So because some are able to get all their shots in manual.. Sony should just move to manual focus for all?  since it works mostly for some?

E-mount is about size... Focus will get better.. IBIS will not come anytime soon if ever because the size increase

SLT is about AF performance.. and IBIS easy control layouts.

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K.E.H. >> Shooting between raindrops in WA<<
Don't Panic!.. these are just opinions... go take some pictures..

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Lucas_
Lucas_ Veteran Member • Posts: 3,018
Re: Is SLT dead or alive ?
1

Well, it doesn't move on my one year old A99, so it's hard to say if it's alive...! Anyway, it seems to work very well without any slapping noise or vibration and the so-called "light loss" is so negligible that It never bothered me. Can I live without it? Sure, when Sony comes up with an on-sensor PDAF design performing at least as well as the SLT design does ( please Sony, never go back to stone-age slapping mirror and OVF...)

... Lucas

Always having fun with photography
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seilerbird666
seilerbird666 Senior Member • Posts: 1,101
Re: Is SLT dead or alive ?
2

tbcass wrote:

LeicaBOSS wrote:

I'm not an Autofocus elitist - so nearly imperceptible differences in AF "speed" are meaningless to me. For this reason, I'd be more than happy to trade in a millisecond or two on the AF side to have a great Sony A mount camera without the stupid SLT mirror.

I also like the accuracy better with cameras like the A7 and A7r - none of this shift error with fast lenses.

The difference in AF speed is much more than a millisecond or two. It's big enough that it can make or break getting an in focus shot for sports or children playing.

My a55 focuses almost instantly, I can't imagine wanting something that focuses faster. And I love the "stupid" SLT mirror.

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kartikjayaraman
kartikjayaraman Contributing Member • Posts: 563
Re: Is SLT dead or alive ?

tbcass wrote:

The difference in AF speed is much more than a millisecond or two. It's big enough that it can make or break getting an in focus shot for sports or children playing. In low light the speed difference is quite obvious. The focusing accuracy with my 35mm f1.8 wide open is very good with both my A65 and A77. All in all my experience tells me you are incorrect on every one of your points. IMO the SLT is great and the 1/2 stop of light loss is insignificant and below iso 1600 has no effect on IQ.

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Tom
Look at the picture, not the pixels
------------
Miss use of the ability to do 100% pixel peeping is the bane of digital photography because it causes people to fret over inconsequential issues.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/63683676@N07/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/25301400@N00/

I was guessing this was going to happen. I think the reason is Sony is selling far more mirrorless cameras and users want image quality over other things. Now its not like the mirrorless camera AF is bad, its just slow as you mentioned so Sony might provide an SLT adapter for sports/action photography (like they do for the A7 which adds the SLT and PDAF)...and that should make both kinds of customers happy. Of course I don't know how they will do a A to A mount SLT addition...that would be interesting.

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Gary Waugh Senior Member • Posts: 1,612
Only Sony knows for sure. n/t
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LeicaBOSS
LeicaBOSS Regular Member • Posts: 432
Re: Is SLT dead or alive ?

I have an A77 as well. I like it, and understand your A65 is just as good - but the SLT is kind of a stop-gap. They needed to do something different (because they were getting destroyed by everyone else) and the market rewarded the SLT with a tiny 1-3% market share.

It's the SLT mirror, dude - most people don't trust it. They don't like it. It's got to go!

And it will go as soon as they fine tune the on-chip AF.

-B

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From time to time, I point my camera at the right things. This is generally when I forget everything I've learned.

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tbcass
tbcass Forum Pro • Posts: 23,908
Re: Is SLT dead or alive ?

LeicaBOSS wrote:

...but you haven't missed those shots with an A7 or A7r, for example? Or a NEX-7? Right?

I've shot birds in flight with a Canon EOS-M, baseball and indoor dodgeball with a NEX-7, fast-paced street with an A7r. Never had significant miss rates with any of these. I also have an A77. I like it, too - but I'd be crazy to say that one should get significantly more shots in focus with it.

Just even a tiny bit of skill and technique, and nobody should be missing shots with any of these.

So, I'd hate to put it this way, but if you really can't nail nearly all of your shots with on-chip PDAF - as good as it is now - take the 1/2 stop and just practice just a little harder.

Every single review I've read and the user reports say that the A7 autofocus is on the slow side. It may be accurate but what good is accuracy if it is too slow to acquire focus in the first place. I have tried out a NEX7 and found it's AF too slow for Soccer and Basketball.

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Tom
Look at the picture, not the pixels
------------
Miss use of the ability to do 100% pixel peeping is the bane of digital photography because it causes people to fret over inconsequential issues.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/63683676@N07/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/25301400@N00/

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