how much zoom is too much?

Started Jan 16, 2014 | Discussions
Labe
MOD Labe Forum Pro • Posts: 11,355
how much zoom is too much?
3

zoom limits are stretching more and more. Not had much time with hs50 really but I do like the reach.

the following images were taken from a local flyover . The minster in the background is about a mile away from where I stood. I took one at 24mm, one at 1000mm and the last using 1000mm plus 2x zoom . To be fare they are quite good. Cheers Paul UK.

These are jpegs sooc by the way.

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new to technology,always learning

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Me Tarzan
Me Tarzan Senior Member • Posts: 1,392
Re: how much zoom is too much?

Looks like just the right amount of zoom to me. lol

That first shot is beautiful.

gloaming Veteran Member • Posts: 4,167
Re: how much zoom is too much?

Some will say you can never be too thin, too rich, have too many shoes or purses, or be tall enough. I get the message, even though I am not currently very thin, have few shoes, am retired on a fixed income, and was never taller than 5' 8". I also feel the same way about zoom. I know a great deal of it taxes the engineering meant to record it, at least with the current crop of pinhead sensors in some lines. I also think the current crop of super-zooms are wonderful, and that we are in a golden age that frees us from the expense and weight of DSLR's and all their accoutrements, if not their essentially unmatched IQ.

I think that, if I purchase new in the next two years, which is likely, it will be a modest megapixel chip with modest zoom, say in the 30 times range (by then), and I'll crop to get the image size I want in apparent angular size....or should that be the other way around...

Just as I know that eventually smart phones will kill the smaller camera market, they must, I know that eventually we'll figure out how to get great gobs of zoom from fized lenses on affordable cameras....the kind that 'most everyone can save up for inside of three months or so.

-Crandell

PS - Oops, I forgot to compliment you on your imagery above.  I agree, they're all revealing and very nice.

photoreddi Veteran Member • Posts: 7,973
Re: how much zoom is too much?

labe wrote:

zoom limits are stretching more and more. Not had much time with hs50 really but I do like the reach.

the following images were taken from a local flyover . The minster in the background is about a mile away from where I stood. I took one at 24mm, one at 1000mm and the last using 1000mm plus 2x zoom . To be fare they are quite good. Cheers Paul UK.

These are jpegs sooc by the way.

Impressive. You can give Gibby & Sons a call and tell them that they can save some money next time. They don't need to use such a large sign.

alexisgreat Veteran Member • Posts: 6,459
Re: how much zoom is too much?

PR, though I will say this, after getting the converter, I dont see that much size difference between 680mm and 1000mm. 680mm being the HS20 actual max EFL and 1000mm with the converter (its actually 995mm- but close enough lol- the HS50 is actually 999mm.)

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photoreddi Veteran Member • Posts: 7,973
Re: how much zoom is too much?

alexisgreat wrote:

PR, though I will say this, after getting the converter, I dont see that much size difference between 680mm and 1000mm. 680mm being the HS20 actual max EFL and 1000mm with the converter (its actually 995mm- but close enough lol- the HS50 is actually 999mm.)

If the size difference is between the HS20 with and the HS20 without the TC, then it sounds like the HS50 should give you much better max. zoom images. If so, it might be worth upgrading my broken HS10 if the price drops a little more.

KJaay Veteran Member • Posts: 7,941
Re: how much zoom is too much?
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Very nice example shots, first one beautiful.

KJ

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(unknown member) Veteran Member • Posts: 5,400
Re: how much zoom is too much?

Nice shots! Amazing range.

(unknown member) Contributing Member • Posts: 565
Re: how much zoom is too much?

I'm torn between two opinions:

The logical side of me says 1000mm is just too damn long to hand hold, you're at the mercy of atmospheric conditions, how much is IS going to really help me at this focal length, etc., . . . . .

. . . . . and the little kid in me says, 'whoo-eee, what a hoot, look at that!' . . . . . .

What are you to do ? ? ? ? ?  Though I still have a vision of CES next year with the new FinePix S2, shooting video of the ISS passing overhead, hand-held, at 2000mm.   Where does it stop ?

JW

(unknown member) Veteran Member • Posts: 5,400
Where does it stop?

Engineers and marketing dept. employees are paid to hope it will never stop! Consumers pay, but also benefit.  I'm just not buying for a while. -Too addictive.  I intend to wear out my two current cameras. That would be a new behavior.

alexisgreat Veteran Member • Posts: 6,459
Re: how much zoom is too much?

honestly for stuff beyond the atmosphere you're much better off with a telescope.

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AmirhosainD90 Forum Member • Posts: 56
Re: how much zoom is too much?

Nice shots!

Are these shots hand-held?

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Labe
OP MOD Labe Forum Pro • Posts: 11,355
Re: how much zoom is too much?

AmirhosainD90 wrote:

Nice shots!

Are these shots hand-held?

Yes , shot handheld
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PerH Contributing Member • Posts: 923
Re: how much zoom is too much?

Hi labe.

Can you do a test on maximum zoom. 30x (720mm) zoom (HS30) vs 42x (1000mm) Zoom (HS50)? Interesting to see the difference...thank´s

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/PerH

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alexisgreat Veteran Member • Posts: 6,459
Re: Where does it stop?

I wouldn't consider a 2 pound superzoom camera worth it- so it will probably stop when physical limits of image quality vs portability are reached.

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gloaming Veteran Member • Posts: 4,167
Re: how much zoom is too much?
1

A telescope that would premit the user to render a satisfying image of the same quality and magnification would probably end up costing another $1000.  You need a mount and tripod, plus camera adapters.  Not only that, but you'd need at least one ocular, say a good quality 30mm Plossl, to get the same level of magnification.   If you wanted to forego the ocular, then you'd still need tha camera adapter and a very long focal length to get the same object size.   Longer focal lengths mean longer tubes, and therefore greater instability.  It might add even more cost.

alexisgreat Veteran Member • Posts: 6,459
Re: not true
1

a superior spotting scope like the Meade ETX 90 only costs a few hundred- and the proof that its resolution fo astroimaging is MUCH higher than that of any superzoom is the fact that you can actually see surface details on planets while no superzoom camera can do that by itself.  No longer tubes necessary, I dont really use refractors or reflectors I use CATS exclusively.  The aforementioned Meade will give you an afocal focal length from 1800mm-3000mm in a package that only weighs three pounds and comes with a table top tripod.  You use a short zoom camera like the Olympus C-7070 and can use most of the zoom range of that camera by holding the camera up to the eyepiece.  I bought a camera adapter for it, its very good and only costs 10 dollars but I never need to use it.  The 32mm plossl only costs 30 dollars if that.  The meade scope is barely the length of your hand and you can even handhold it while taking pictures through your car.

a 32mm plossl can be had for pocket change, you just hold the camera up to the eyepiece.

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alexisgreat Veteran Member • Posts: 6,459
Re: not true
1

one caveat is this really isn't for fast moving objects, but its a better choice for astroimaging. To be honest, that's really the only usage I can envision for > 1,000mm fl.  Because of the way afocal imaging works, a small sensor short zoom camera is actually better for this kind of imaging than a dslr is, as small sensor means shorter exposure times and lower ISO.

http://www.jayandwanda.com/digiscope/C7070_v_E300_QC.html

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gloaming Veteran Member • Posts: 4,167
Re: not true
1

You are correct inasmuch as you are talking about a catadioptric telescope. I was thinking, admittedly in a limited way, of the same optical system as one would find in a lens on a camera, one that provides only refractive magnification. IOW, a refractor telescope. In order to get all the light wavelengths coming to a pleasing, non-fringed, focus, you must have either a long focal length or ED glass included in the objective lens, never a cheap enterprise. Even so, your ED catadioptric will necessarily have an F-10 focal ratio typically.

However, to get the same resolving power and magnification at the detector, the camera seems to do very well for much fewer coins. Once you add your ED, even if only 80 mm or so, you run into serious bucks that the camera enthusiast needn't have to pay.

For the record, I used to have a Celestron 11" SCT to which I mated a Pentax SLR using prime focus photgraphy.  THAT beast could really haul in the images because of its resolution, light gathering power (1400 times the human dark-adapted eye), and its 2.8 meter focal length.

-Crandell

alexisgreat Veteran Member • Posts: 6,459
Re: not true
1

Wow that C-11 is a beast! The largest one I have is the Nexstar 8SE and that is heavy enough for me to lug around at 30 lbs or so.

I like your set up, Pentax is one of the best (highly underrated) DSLR around. I use Olympus 4:3 so for my two CATs their native stats are:

ETX 90 Aperture 90mm FL 1250mm speed F/13.8

Nexstar 8 SE Aperture 203.2mm FL 2032mm speed F/10

with Celestron f/6.3 reducer corrector FL 1280mm speed f/6.3

using a 4:3 camera, those are all doubled- that is 2500mm F/27.6 for the ETX and 4064mm F/20 for the 8SE and with the reducer/corector it's 2560mm f/12.6

thats for prime focus but if you want to do afocal you get faster f ratios and longer focal lengths

first off here's how to calculate EFL with afocal set ups

magnification (FL telescope / FL eyepiece) * EFL of camera lens = EFL of afocal set up

and here's how to calculate f number with afocal set ups

(magnification* REAL focal length of camera lens) / aperture of telescope

the reason why you get faster f ratios with small sensor afocal set ups is because they have smaller lenses (less mm to get the same amount of zoom).

I used jayandwanda.com's digiscope calculator to generate the following results which include the smallest amount of zoom needed to get beyond vignetting with the C-7070 and either scope with a 32mm EP attached. the C-7070 has a 1/1.8" sensor (4.8x crop). Minimum zoom to get beyond vignetting is 46mm and max zoom available with the lens on this camera is 110mm, divide both by 4.8 and you get the real usable focal length range and the above formulas to get the EFL and f ratio of the afocal setup.

ETX 90 + 32mm Plossl + C-7070 camera

1800mm f/4.2 - 4320mm f/10

Nexstar 8 SE + 32mm Plossl + C-7070 camera

2920mm f/3 - 7000mm f/7.2

I have the reducer but didn't include its results as it is strictly for astro use but you can calculate that using the above formulae also.

I would use the ETX 90 up to 2880mm f/6.7 and then switch to the Nexstar 8SE

For daytime digiscoping 60x is about the maximum, and that is 3000mm (50mm is taken as unit power or 1x for optics.)

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