If the GM-1 was sold as 'Body only' I might be tempted ...

Started Jan 11, 2014 | Discussions
ericN2
ericN2 Forum Pro • Posts: 16,871
If the GM-1 was sold as 'Body only' I might be tempted ...
2

.. but since I have my beloved GX1.. which I firmly believe is every bit as good and capable to me as the new GX7 which contains nothing extra that I feel I truly need or justifies the hugely extra cost in UK at least..  I don't like Touch Screens (which is on the GX1 anyway..but shut off now..) nor EVF's when I have no problems in fully composing all I shoot on the GX1.. this new one is again hugely expensive and over-priced in UK.

The GM-1 does have the benefit of a very small compact size but with all the general M4/3's attributes - isn't it the case that one of the main benefits of M4/3 is the capability to choose your own camera body AND lens(es) to go with it - why should we HAVE to buy a lesser quality lens on the GM-1 to acquire the Body, for the benefits that does give...

Sorry Panasonic - but I'm not a customer at this time ...

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/eric
Staffordshire, UK

Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX1 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX7
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93tracker Forum Member • Posts: 76
Re: If the GM-1 was sold as 'Body only' I might be tempted ...
1

I also have an GX1 and would like to have another camera GX7 but my GX1 is a very good ( not perfect) camera I just can't see upgrading yet...I have an EPL2 but prefer the size and feel of the Panasonic..

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arbuz Senior Member • Posts: 2,247
Re: If the GM-1 was sold as 'Body only' I might be tempted ...
2

ericN2 wrote:

.. but since I have my beloved GX1.. which I firmly believe is every bit as good and capable to me as the new GX7 which contains nothing extra that I feel I truly need or justifies the hugely extra cost in UK at least.. I don't like Touch Screens (which is on the GX1 anyway..but shut off now..) nor EVF's when I have no problems in fully composing all I shoot on the GX1.. this new one is again hugely expensive and over-priced in UK.

EVF shows it's value in bright conditions. No wonder you don't need it in UK

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Ulric Veteran Member • Posts: 4,448
Re: If the GM-1 was sold as 'Body only' I might be tempted ...

You can always get the kit and sell the lens. But the lens is pretty nice although it's slow. The size is a good fit for the body.

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photo perzon
photo perzon Veteran Member • Posts: 4,522
GM-1 lens, small, stabilized, sharp

It is a gem

Ulric wrote:

You can always get the kit and sell the lens. But the lens is pretty nice although it's slow. The size is a good fit for the body.

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JoostL Contributing Member • Posts: 714
Re: If the GM-1 was sold as 'Body only' I might be tempted ...
FrankS009
FrankS009 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,365
Re: If the GM-1 was sold as 'Body only' I might be tempted ...

We seem to have opposite philosophies. I am very tempted to buy the Panasonic 14mm for $220 US new from a local shop - with GF3 attached. The 12-32 lens seems to be a desirable lens in itself, especially with its 12 mm FL. We shall see how much it is worth - with GM1 attached - down the road.

The GM1 looks like a great cam, but for me, the lenses are the focus. That is why I would rather not buy a fixed lens camera - bodies are always obsolete before the lenses are.

F.

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When no-one else is there, the camera becomes my means...to say to a wider audience, "Did you see that?" David duChemin

Tom Axford Veteran Member • Posts: 3,644
Don't underestimate the quality of the 12-32 lens
2

ericN2 wrote:

- why should we HAVE to buy a lesser quality lens on the GM-1 to acquire the Body, for the benefits that does give...

I'm not sure how you define 'lesser quality' with respect to the kit 12-32 lens. It is certainly smaller aperture, but the image quality is excellent.

In fact, in some respects its IQ exceeds the Lumix 12-35mm f/2.8.

Coincidently, earlier today I did some quick comparisons of the 12-32 and the 12-35 for flare by shooting directly into the sun (about the worst possible situation for flare). Here are the results (the images have no pictorial merit, they were done purely to test the flare):

12-32mm f/3.5-5.6 lens at 18mm f/8

12-35mm f/2.8 lens at 18mm f/8

As you can see, the new 12-32 is remarkably free of ghost images, which are arguably more objectionable than the overall veiling effect of strong flare.

The 12-32 is a remarkably good lens, particularly for its small size.

Gravi
Gravi Senior Member • Posts: 1,537
Two options for you
3

ericN2 wrote:

.. but since I have my beloved GX1.. which I firmly believe is every bit as good and capable to me as the new GX7 which contains nothing extra that I feel I truly need or justifies the hugely extra cost in UK at least.. I don't like Touch Screens (which is on the GX1 anyway..but shut off now..) nor EVF's when I have no problems in fully composing all I shoot on the GX1.. this new one is again hugely expensive and over-priced in UK.

The GM-1 does have the benefit of a very small compact size but with all the general M4/3's attributes - isn't it the case that one of the main benefits of M4/3 is the capability to choose your own camera body AND lens(es) to go with it - why should we HAVE to buy a lesser quality lens on the GM-1 to acquire the Body, for the benefits that does give...

Sorry Panasonic - but I'm not a customer at this time ...

-- hide signature --

/eric
Staffordshire, UK

First of all, there are countries where the GM1 is sold body only. Here in the Netherlands you save 100 euro by buying the body only GM1 instead of the GM1 +12-32mm lens.

The other option is that you buy the GM1+lens, and sell the lens. I am sure that it will give you at least that 100 euro difference as a selling price, as the lens is on many peoples list, and not yet sold separately in many stores. The stores that do sell it, ask 300 euro or more. So if you are willing to take a bet, you might even end up with a cheaper body than the normal body only price...

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Regards,
Gravi

ericN2
OP ericN2 Forum Pro • Posts: 16,871
Re: If the GM-1 was sold as 'Body only' I might be tempted ...

arbuz wrote:

ericN2 wrote:

.. but since I have my beloved GX1.. which I firmly believe is every bit as good and capable to me as the new GX7 which contains nothing extra that I feel I truly need or justifies the hugely extra cost in UK at least.. I don't like Touch Screens (which is on the GX1 anyway..but shut off now..) nor EVF's when I have no problems in fully composing all I shoot on the GX1.. this new one is again hugely expensive and over-priced in UK.

EVF shows it's value in bright conditions. No wonder you don't need it in UK

Exactly !!! ... I've only ever used an EVF just once as far as I can recall...with a Samsung NX10 on what WAS quite a bright day and I had the sun (yes..ONE lovely day !!) right behind me and on the LCD..but otherwise I hate EVF's especially if they have that big chunk of info that some carry..no thanks..not for me..I'm perfectly able to use and compose on my LCDs thank you and do not wish to pay a bundle for that item...

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/eric
Staffordshire, UK

eastvillager Senior Member • Posts: 1,126
Re: Don't underestimate the quality of the 12-32 lens
2

Nice test thanks. As for the OP. If you think the GX7 is too expensive or the GM1 should come body only thats great but who really cares. This gentlemans test adds something to the mix and our understanding of photography and photography equipment. The trouble with much of this forum is it's whiners who have nothing to add to dialogue.

Tom Axford wrote:

ericN2 wrote:

- why should we HAVE to buy a lesser quality lens on the GM-1 to acquire the Body, for the benefits that does give...

I'm not sure how you define 'lesser quality' with respect to the kit 12-32 lens. It is certainly smaller aperture, but the image quality is excellent.

In fact, in some respects its IQ exceeds the Lumix 12-35mm f/2.8.

Coincidently, earlier today I did some quick comparisons of the 12-32 and the 12-35 for flare by shooting directly into the sun (about the worst possible situation for flare). Here are the results (the images have no pictorial merit, they were done purely to test the flare):

12-32mm f/3.5-5.6 lens at 18mm f/8

12-35mm f/2.8 lens at 18mm f/8

As you can see, the new 12-32 is remarkably free of ghost images, which are arguably more objectionable than the overall veiling effect of strong flare.

The 12-32 is a remarkably good lens, particularly for its small size.

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ericN2
OP ericN2 Forum Pro • Posts: 16,871
Re: If the GM-1 was sold as 'Body only' I might be tempted ...

Ulric -

As I see it..my Pancakes (20mm and 14mm) are certainly not any bigger I'm sure and I'm more than sure they're a lot better than the kit-lens.. as usual a poor f3.5 at best isn't it..and a zoom I don't want..   Frankly it looks to me very much like the old 14-42's they used to use as starters.. not very good and really very little value or attraction if you wanted to buy the kit then sell-on..I certainly wouldn't expect to get much at all for it (the lens) on the UK market.

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/eric
Staffordshire, UK

ericN2
OP ericN2 Forum Pro • Posts: 16,871
Re: Don't underestimate the quality of the 12-32 lens

Tom -

Trouble is .. it's all relative of course.. to our own desires I suppose.. but I just don't feel the 12-32 is MY sort of lens ..  and as said before..I've already got the lenses I want and find exactly right for ME..I just don't want to pay the extra price for having a kit-lens ..  it IS of course the case.. and I'm sure it applies here..kit-lenses are invariably only put on so the item makes a whole usable camera..or many would likely not buy the Body only.. In UK this GM-1 WITH the (unwanted) kit-lens is incredibly high price really.. take away the lens and maybe the 'Body only' price would be a bit more attractive...but for me right now..it just isn't .. if I HAVE to buy a chunk of what I don't want.

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/eric
Staffordshire, UK

AG
AG Regular Member • Posts: 291
Re: If the GM-1 was sold as 'Body only' I might be tempted ...

ebay : new, body ONLY USD 590 + free shipping

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ericN2
OP ericN2 Forum Pro • Posts: 16,871
Re: Don't underestimate the quality of the 12-32 lens

eastvillager wrote:

Nice test thanks. As for the OP. If you think the GX7 is too expensive or the GM1 should come body only thats great but who really cares. This gentlemans test adds something to the mix and our understanding of photography and photography equipment. The trouble with much of this forum is it's whiners who have nothing to add to dialogue.

Well..if THAT's your attitude then I've certainly nothing more to say to you..  but it SHOULD be the case that manufacturers take at least some notice of prospective buyers thoughts..  we ARE these days a lot more in a Buyers Market than probably for many earlier years..money is tighter and in UK at least, Sales have to be earned right now.. and forcing prospective Buyers to pay a very high price for something which includes a chunk of value that is NOT needed by choice..is not the best way of going about it.
You carry on with your own little World of how it should be... but very many do consider just WHAT they are getting for the price they are asked to pay - and if it's not right.. a purchase is not made.
It's NOT whining..it's constructive thoughts and hopes as a BUYER .. any Manufacturer that ignores that nowadays does so at his peril.. we are not all 'made of money' ..

Tom Axford wrote:

ericN2 wrote:

- why should we HAVE to buy a lesser quality lens on the GM-1 to acquire the Body, for the benefits that does give...

/eric
Staffordshire, UK

ericN2
OP ericN2 Forum Pro • Posts: 16,871
Re: If the GM-1 was sold as 'Body only' I might be tempted ...

AG wrote:

ebay : new, body ONLY USD 590 + free shipping

AG -

As I presume you are in US when giving that $$$ price, I have to assume that at no time have you been in the position of trying to import anything from US to UK.  I gave that idea up long ago when I wanted to buy some article from B&H...I asked the cost and the amount they were charging for post alone was almost as much as the modest price article.  It is horrendously expensive (or can be) to Import from US to UK..especially such as a camera.. which by its nature almost invariably would be caught by Customs who then add a Duty fee..PLUS some sort of Handling etc...PLUS then our also innocuous Value Added Tax of 20%...the camera can end up damn near anything from 50-75% maybe higher than the initial payment.. and likely is little difference to the price here anyway.

Sorry but the idea is just not as good as you may think.

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/eric
Staffordshire, UK

KwhyChang Veteran Member • Posts: 4,905
Re: If the GM-1 was sold as 'Body only' I might be tempted ...
1

Personally, I think you should keep the GX1, or if you must have a new cam, upgrade to the GX7.

The GM1 really doesn't add much to your GX1 except size, a new sensor, and a revised jpg engine. For me, I couldn't choose a cam limited by 1/500 sec. mechanical shutter.

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Dave

Impulses Senior Member • Posts: 6,292
Re: Two options for you

ericN2 wrote:

.. but since I have my beloved GX1.. which I firmly believe is every bit as good and capable to me as the new GX7 which contains nothing extra that I feel I truly need or justifies the hugely extra cost in UK at least.. I don't like Touch Screens (which is on the GX1 anyway..but shut off now..) nor EVF's when I have no problems in fully composing all I shoot on the GX1.. this new one is again hugely expensive and over-priced in UK.

The GM-1 does have the benefit of a very small compact size but with all the general M4/3's attributes - isn't it the case that one of the main benefits of M4/3 is the capability to choose your own camera body AND lens(es) to go with it - why should we HAVE to buy a lesser quality lens on the GM-1 to acquire the Body, for the benefits that does give...

Sorry Panasonic - but I'm not a customer at this time ...

-- hide signature --

/eric
Staffordshire, UK

First of all, there are countries where the GM1 is sold body only. Here in the Netherlands you save 100 euro by buying the body only GM1 instead of the GM1 +12-32mm lens.

The other option is that you buy the GM1+lens, and sell the lens. I am sure that it will give you at least that 100 euro difference as a selling price, as the lens is on many peoples list, and not yet sold separately in many stores. The stores that do sell it, ask 300 euro or more. So if you are willing to take a bet, you might even end up with a cheaper body than the normal body only price...

-- hide signature --

Regards,
Gravi

The GM1 must be selling well if they're only discounting 100 euro for the split kit... Or are those body only kits original from Panasonic? I'm one of those people looking for the 12-32 (for my GF6), tempted to buy it for $320 on Ebay. I'm sure if the OP sells it for slightly less than that he'd be rid of it in a matter of days and would end up with a GM1 for $450-550 (about what I paid for my GF6).

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Impulses Senior Member • Posts: 6,292
Re: If the GM-1 was sold as 'Body only' I might be tempted ...

Ulric -

As I see it..my Pancakes (20mm and 14mm) are certainly not any bigger I'm sure and I'm more than sure they're a lot better than the kit-lens.. as usual a poor f3.5 at best isn't it..and a zoom I don't want..   Frankly it looks to me very much like the old 14-42's they used to use as starters.. not very good and really very little value or attraction if you wanted to buy the kit then sell-on..I certainly wouldn't expect to get much at all for it (the lens) on the UK market.

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/eric
Staffordshire, UK

Either the UK market is very different, or you're vastly underestimating how much you can get for that 12-32mm... There IS some demand for it, just look around these forums, though if it's gone on sale by itself already in Europe you might get slightly less than you would here in the states... Even so, should still be able to get enough off it to account for a good 25% discount on the current GM1 price tho (going by US prices, not sure how much higher it's marked up in EU).

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g_r_w Regular Member • Posts: 385
The 12-32 is the perfect mate.
2

I think you would be doing the GM-1 a disservice by not having the 12-32.

The GM-1's biggest selling point is it's size and by not mating it with a similarly small lens you're pretty much shooting yourself in the foot.  You'll be wondering what the point of sacrificing handling to have a smaller body is.

I had a look at your gear list and only the 20mm makes sense - you might have an updated list?

Have you handled one in person with other lenses on it?  Even relatively compact lenses like the 25mm and Oly 9-18 are twice the size of the 12-32 when collapsed for transport.

I have the 12-35 and as a "compact" 24-70 fast lens, it looks ridiculous on the GM-1. It is actually a credit to Panasonic what they have managed to do with both the body and lens.

I don't know what your shooting style is, but I use the 12-32 mostly on the wide end, which fortunately is where it is fastest (and not that much slower than the 12-35).  It is the only collapsible lens that starts at 12mm and it makes it significantly more useful than the other kit lenses out there.

I think body only would save a few bucks, but I don't believe the saving would be worth it.

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