Nikon D3300 is $499 - how can mirrorless compete?

Started Jan 7, 2014 | Discussions
Guy Parsons
Guy Parsons Forum Pro • Posts: 31,855
Re: Nikon D3300 is $499 - how can mirrorless compete?
1

new boyz wrote: .... Maybe we should stop this mirrorless vs DSLR thing.

Never, this war will go on until the very last DSLR is squashed under foot.

Viva M4/3 !

Regards..... Guy

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Mike Ronesia
Mike Ronesia Veteran Member • Posts: 3,043
Re: Nikon D3300 is $499 - how can mirrorless compete?

Guy Parsons wrote:

new boyz wrote: .... Maybe we should stop this mirrorless vs DSLR thing.

Never, this war will go on until the very last DSLR is squashed under foot.

Viva M4/3 !

Regards..... Guy

LOL, boys and their toys, as my wife would say. Of course she got a compound miter saw for Christmas.

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Mark James
A.K.A. Mike Ronesia

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dennis tennis Veteran Member • Posts: 3,783
Re: Nikon D3300 is huge
7

As an ex Green Beret/Delta Force, Seal Team Six, and current CIA operative, I can tell you that the D3300 is too large and heavy for me.

I can swin the Bering Sea, buck naked, in the winter time, while towing a dead polar bear but I can't physically handle walking the streets of NYC strapped down with that D3300. You can water board me for a year and I won't carry it ever again.

On my last mission, we were forced by Nikon to bring along the D3300.  It slowed us down so much that I was the "Lone survivor".  Damn you Nikon D3300!  I lost my brothers because of you!

If you want to support America, be sure to buy to correct Japanese camera brand!  (Heroically posing)

SDPharm Regular Member • Posts: 229
Re: Nikon D3300 is huge

Well, whatever it is, the D3300 certainly brings good natured humor out of people.  There are a couple of gems in this thread already.

dennis tennis wrote:

As an ex Green Beret/Delta Force, Seal Team Six, and current CIA operative, I can tell you that the D3300 is too large and heavy for me.

I can swin the Bering Sea, buck naked, in the winter time, while towing a dead polar bear but I can't physically handle walking the streets of NYC strapped down with that D3300. You can water board me for a year and I won't carry it ever again.

On my last mission, we were forced by Nikon to bring along the D3300. It slowed us down so much that I was the "Lone survivor". Damn you Nikon D3300! I lost my brothers because of you!

If you want to support America, be sure to buy to correct Japanese camera brand! (Heroically posing)

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photodog25 Regular Member • Posts: 412
Re: Nikon D3300 is $499 - how can mirrorless compete?

AFAIK the D3300 is not currently available without a kit lens. The kit will run you $650.

Jim Salvas
Jim Salvas Veteran Member • Posts: 5,650
Re: How is its EVF?
2

Wu Jiaqiu wrote:

Lab D wrote:

Wu Jiaqiu wrote:

Jim Salvas wrote:

E-M1: turn exposure compensation dial and watch as the large EVF image changes to match.

D3300: peer through OVF tunnel at reduced-size, unchanging image.

E-M1: watch as EFV compensates for dim lighting in very dark conditions.

D3300: put away your camera.

so before mirrorless and EVF's no one could take a picture in dark conditions?

Who said that? No one. Your remarks are plain silly.

For years though everyone has complained about cheap penta-mirrors and how they were like looking down a long dark tunnel at reduced size. That is nothing new. Penta-prisms and full coverage EVFs (like on the Em1) are better.

and i quote "D3300: put away your camera" it's all above what you wrote, it's simply a falsehood like many comments in this thread

I meant exactly what I said. A couple of nights ago, I was shooting in a dark park, in the fog, at 2am. With my D300, I would not have been able to see well enough to compose the shots. The EVF in my E-M1 made some pretty good shots possible. Like this one, which I could see in the WYSIWYG viewfinder pretty much just like this before shooting it.

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Jim Salvas

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Ontario Gone
Ontario Gone Veteran Member • Posts: 4,183
Re: Nikon D3300 is $499 - how can mirrorless compete?
1

I don't care what the price is, the 24mp filterless sensor will be nice im sure, but it still has a mirror producing vibrations, it still has no built in IBIS, it cannot except adapters for any lens i want to use, and it still has a TINY VF. I want wifi without a "special" adapter. I want focus peaking in the LCD and VF, i want a full electronic shutter so i can shoot as many time lapses as i want. I want peaking during video recording, not to mention video that i can see through the VF. You can make a DSLR as good as you want, but the R part (reflex) will always make it worse in certain areas. Those areas i care about, hence i will not be buying the D3300 or any other DSLR.

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MT Senior Member • Posts: 1,943
Re: Nikon D3300 is $499 - how can mirrorless compete?
1

On a budget, it would be hard to pick a EM1 over a PM2 which has the same sensor and can be had for $200 in the used market. And produce similar shots for the most part if one knows how to handle the PM2.

MTMT

maljo@inreach.com wrote:

a pretty well spec'd camera and gives access to a huge system.

On a budget it would be hard to pick an EM1 over these cheap entry level DSLRs.

maljo

MrGubrz
MrGubrz Senior Member • Posts: 1,351
Re: Nikon D3300 is $499 - how can mirrorless compete?

maljo@inreach.com wrote:

a pretty well spec'd camera and gives access to a huge system.

On a budget it would be hard to pick an EM1 over these cheap entry level DSLRs.

maljo

I'd say the Nikon is aimed at people who don't know a photographer friend that has a mirror less cam

i just can't imagine anyone I know going for a dslr after trying some mirrorless cams, unless they do sports mebbe

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Jim Salvas
Jim Salvas Veteran Member • Posts: 5,650
Re: Nikon D3300 is $499 - how can mirrorless compete?
1

MT wrote:

On a budget, it would be hard to pick a EM1 over a PM2 which has the same sensor and can be had for $200 in the used market. And produce similar shots for the most part if one knows how to handle the PM2.

MTMT

maljo@inreach.com wrote:

a pretty well spec'd camera and gives access to a huge system.

On a budget it would be hard to pick an EM1 over these cheap entry level DSLRs.

maljo

I have both an M1 and a PM2. I would give up the PM2 first, because giving up the M1 would mean giving up too many useful tools.

At one time, almost every camera had the same sensor, 35mm film. It was still worthwhile to spend much more on top of line equipment, because you got better tools.

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Jim Salvas

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zkz5
zkz5 Contributing Member • Posts: 665
Re: Comparing half a camera

broody wrote:

zkz5 wrote:

How much does a fast, autofocus, 35mm-equivalent pancake lens weigh for the D3300?

Well, lol... There are no pancakes for the D3300. Between that and having the longest flange distance, Nikon is in dead last place for camera compactness, which is why comparing it to M43 is a terrible idea.

There are a few I can think of, actually:

  • Voigtlander 20/3.5
  • Voigtlander 40/2
  • Nikon 45/2.8

But none of these meet my description and are all MF.

antoineb Veteran Member • Posts: 6,650
Same thing the other way around :-)
2

maljo@inreach.com wrote:

a pretty well spec'd camera and gives access to a huge system.

On a budget it would be hard to pick an EM1 over these cheap entry level DSLRs.

maljo

Interesting.

You pick a high-end large m43 camera, to compare it w a D3300.

Ever used one of those entry-level DSLRs?  I have.  Their positives are the good IQ and the relatively small size.  Their negatives are the tiny viewfinder, the limited AF (better than many mirrorless for action, but precision can't compete with CDAF), and the very limited controls.

So funnily enough I'm reading this the other way around:  Nikon HAVE TO price the D3300 very low just so that people will take a look!  For most casual users, this is a lot of money when you consider that you already own a camera that came for free with your smartphone.  Not to mention that you would now have to carry a dedicated camera, its charger and so on.

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Wu Jiaqiu
Wu Jiaqiu Forum Pro • Posts: 24,078
Re: How is its EVF?

Jim Salvas wrote:

Wu Jiaqiu wrote:

Lab D wrote:

Wu Jiaqiu wrote:

Jim Salvas wrote:

E-M1: turn exposure compensation dial and watch as the large EVF image changes to match.

D3300: peer through OVF tunnel at reduced-size, unchanging image.

E-M1: watch as EFV compensates for dim lighting in very dark conditions.

D3300: put away your camera.

so before mirrorless and EVF's no one could take a picture in dark conditions?

Who said that? No one. Your remarks are plain silly.

For years though everyone has complained about cheap penta-mirrors and how they were like looking down a long dark tunnel at reduced size. That is nothing new. Penta-prisms and full coverage EVFs (like on the Em1) are better.

and i quote "D3300: put away your camera" it's all above what you wrote, it's simply a falsehood like many comments in this thread

I meant exactly what I said. A couple of nights ago, I was shooting in a dark park, in the fog, at 2am. With my D300, I would not have been able to see well enough to compose the shots. The EVF in my E-M1 made some pretty good shots possible. Like this one, which I could see in the WYSIWYG viewfinder pretty much just like this before shooting it.

i disagree with you

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marike6 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,088
Re: Same thing the other way around :-)

antoineb wrote:

So funnily enough I'm reading this the other way around: Nikon HAVE TO price the D3300 very low just so that people will take a look!

To get people to take a look???  The D3000 series is one of the best selling cameras of all time.

D3100, D3200, Rebel T3i/550 -- you are getting a remarkable amount of camera capabilities and IQ for a relatively small amount of money.  $500 and you essentially have the same IQ, and with the D3300, 1080p60 HD video found in the higher end, top-of-the-line APS-C cameras.

Almost every schmo with a YouTube channel has one of these cameras for their videos, and most of them look great.  And no, those smartphones that already have cameras on them, cannot compete with either moving or still images from this class of camera in any way.

I do agree that the comparison to the high end EM-1 kind of misses the fact that the EM1 has much higher grade build quality.   On IQ and specs alone,  the D3300 class of camera competes with tons of other more expensive cameras.

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digifan Senior Member • Posts: 2,332
Re: EVF much better than OVF!
1

And I disagree with you.

I have had and still sometimes rent a DSLR, and can assure you that it's impossible to frame and focus in the dark with an OVF, because you see exactly through the lens as what you see not using a camera when you use a graet pentaprism camera. With an entry level the picture is even darker.

An EVF camera can enhance the light of the EVF so you can actually see what will be in the frame.

So no an OVF isn't better than an EVF in dim conditions!

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PerL Forum Pro • Posts: 14,039
Re: Size isn't everything
1

jim stirling wrote:

Though from a straight quality point of view the results from Nikon DSLRs is pretty good. The E-M1 is a far superior camera to this low end Nikon body in every single way apart from image quality.

Of course the EM-1 has far better build, weather sealing etc.

It would be interesting though as an experiment to compare the AF-C and action shooting performance. I believe the D3300 has the AF from Nikon D200 coupled with the faster processor. Will the new on-sensor PDAF of the EM-1 beat the traditional basic PDAF of the little 5 fps Nikon coupled to a fast focusing AF-S lens? Anybodys guess, I guess...

Sean Nelson
Sean Nelson Forum Pro • Posts: 13,130
Re: Nikon D3300 is $499 - how can mirrorless compete?

maljo@inreach.com wrote:

On a budget it would be hard to pick an EM1 over these cheap entry level DSLRs.

Obviously the people who are choosing the EM1 aren't on a budget.  Kind of like the people who buy Lexus cars.

Maybe the question you need to ask yourself is this:  how is it that Olympus is able to set the price of cameras like the EM1 and the EM5 so high and still manage to see the darn things?

I think you'll find that the answer to that one is also the answer to your original question.

Josegaut Senior Member • Posts: 1,257
Similar question :

A BMW 3-Series cost $$$, a Ferrari costs $$$$. How can a Ferrari compete ?

Or

An apple costs x, a banana costs y. How can a banana compete ?

etc.

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agentul Contributing Member • Posts: 619
Re: Similar question :
1

Josegaut wrote:

A BMW 3-Series cost $$$, a Ferrari costs $$$$. How can a Ferrari compete ?

i have no idea how they compete against my Mazda 6. i mean, i can fit 4-5 adults in it and it was cheaper than both. why are BMW and Ferrari still in business?

Jeff Tokayer Veteran Member • Posts: 6,287
How can the D7100 compete?
2
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