Nikon D3300 is $499 - how can mirrorless compete?

Started Jan 7, 2014 | Discussions
Wu Jiaqiu
Wu Jiaqiu Forum Pro • Posts: 23,892
Re: Nikon D3300 is $499 - how can mirrorless compete?
1

Digital Dick wrote:

Put a 600mm lens on it and then we'll talk.

Dick

any native 600mm lenses for the mFT?

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Wu Jiaqiu
Wu Jiaqiu Forum Pro • Posts: 23,892
Re: D3300 competes with the $349 E-PM2 (Nikon is $150 more!)

Lab D wrote:

The Nikon is a pretty stripped down budget camera. It competes with the less expensive PEN series. The only problem for the Nikon is it is not very small comapred to the PEN cameras.

As for the E-M1 with the weather sealing and faster performance, it competes more with the D7100...which is very large.

it's larger not very large, you can hold it comfortably with a 50mm/1.8 in one hand, it's smaller than a D800 and larger than the smallest mFT, it sits in the middle ground of for size of cameras

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broody Contributing Member • Posts: 674
Re: Comparing half a camera
3

zkz5 wrote:

How much does a fast, autofocus, 35mm-equivalent pancake lens weigh for the D3300?

Well, lol... There are no pancakes for the D3300. Between that and having the longest flange distance, Nikon is in dead last place for camera compactness, which is why comparing it to M43 is a terrible idea.

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Wu Jiaqiu
Wu Jiaqiu Forum Pro • Posts: 23,892
Re: How is its EVF?
2

Jim Salvas wrote:

E-M1: turn exposure compensation dial and watch as the large EVF image changes to match.

D3300: peer through OVF tunnel at reduced-size, unchanging image.

E-M1: watch as EFV compensates for dim lighting in very dark conditions.

D3300: put away your camera.

so before mirrorless and EVF's no one could take a picture in dark conditions? these remarks simply get more hilarious the mote i read this thread........i understand the benefits of mFT cameras but this is beyond pie in the sky

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Wu Jiaqiu
Wu Jiaqiu Forum Pro • Posts: 23,892
Re: Clueless?
2

Big Ga wrote:

Thorgrem wrote:

maljo@inreach.com wrote:

a pretty well spec'd camera and gives access to a huge system.

On a budget it would be hard to pick an EM1 over these cheap entry level DSLRs.

maljo

You have no clue about photography equipment or you are trolling. Which one is it?

Anyone who actually did have a clue would realise maljo makes some very valid points...

some of the comments are hilarious, it seems you can't carry a Dslr because it's too big and can't take pictures in the dark with it, they are made out of scrap plastic and you look stupid

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jim stirling
jim stirling Veteran Member • Posts: 7,356
Re: Size isn't everything

Lab D wrote:

PepsiCan wrote:

maljo@inreach.com wrote:

a pretty well spec'd camera and gives access to a huge system.

On a budget it would be hard to pick an EM1 over these cheap entry level DSLRs.

maljo

Sounds to me like you're comparing the two based on size of the camera. However, if you compare on features, the EM1 would compare more to the likes of the D7100 and Canon 70D. It then becomes a choice based on need, rather than price.

Do you need a stop advantage in Depth of Field and noise?

Check again. The difference between the EM1 and those other cameras is usually less than 1 stop for noise and DR. In real life you won't see real difference.

The D7100 and presumably the D3300 uses the same sensor .Has A full stop better DR , 1.2 stops better colour depth and .7 of a stop better high ISO than the E-M1 ,these are indeed significant numbers .Remember those heady days when the E-M5 was stated to be “vastly better” than the GH2 with its quarter stop better high ISO 

http://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare/Side-by-side/Nikon-D7100-versus-Olympus-OM-D-E-M5-versus-Panasonic-Lumix-DMC-GH2___865_793_677

I would say do you really want to have to adjust your camera for every lens in order for it to focus correctly like you do with PDAF (and it still may not be as accurate as CDAF)? Do you want a camera like the D7100 that can't focus very well during video? Do you really want to carry those large lenses everywhere?

If you have to adjust your lens it is a one time job. If you like to to take photos of moving subjects all mFT cameras suck compared to their similar priced DSLR rivals. Many of the lenses are indeed very large but they typically bring better DOF control . An F1.8 lens on Nikon APS needs an F1.2 lens on mFT to match it { same AOV, same DOF  , same total light}.

As for video mFT is a clear winner in the ergonomics stakes . Personally I would not consider using a DSLR for video anywhere other than on a tripod. Though from a straight quality point of view the results from Nikon DSLRs is pretty good. The E-M1 is a far superior camera to this low end Nikon body in every single way apart from image quality.

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jhinkey
jhinkey Senior Member • Posts: 2,813
Re: Nikon D3300 is $499 - how can mirrorless compete?
1

maljo@inreach.com wrote:

a pretty well spec'd camera and gives access to a huge system.

On a budget it would be hard to pick an EM1 over these cheap entry level DSLRs.

maljo

I would think a Panasonic G6 ($584.99 with kit lens now on B&H) would be a more appropriate comparison.

I think m43 certain can and does compete.

Around my parts here in Seattle you see Nikon ads, but hardly ever any ads for m43 and none of the people that I know that own a Nikon DX camera have ever heard of m43 - so to me it's more of a marketing budget-type of thing for competition more than price.

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Lab D Veteran Member • Posts: 6,938
Re: How is its EVF?

Wu Jiaqiu wrote:

Jim Salvas wrote:

E-M1: turn exposure compensation dial and watch as the large EVF image changes to match.

D3300: peer through OVF tunnel at reduced-size, unchanging image.

E-M1: watch as EFV compensates for dim lighting in very dark conditions.

D3300: put away your camera.

so before mirrorless and EVF's no one could take a picture in dark conditions?

Who said that?  No one.  Your remarks are plain silly.

For years though everyone has complained about cheap penta-mirrors and how they were like looking down a long dark tunnel at reduced size.  That is nothing new.  Penta-prisms and full coverage EVFs (like on the Em1) are better.

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SDPharm Regular Member • Posts: 229
Re: Nikon D3300 is $499 - how can mirrorless compete?

You are absolutely right.  The m43 camp hardly ever put out ads.  I see Nikon and Canon ads in magazine sometimes.  Very occasionally, I see Olympus.  I've never seen Panasonic.  Although print ads are old fashioned, they still work.

jhinkey wrote:

...Around my parts here in Seattle you see Nikon ads, but hardly ever any ads for m43 and none of the people that I know that own a Nikon DX camera have ever heard of m43 - so to me it's more of a marketing budget-type of thing for competition more than price.

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Wu Jiaqiu
Wu Jiaqiu Forum Pro • Posts: 23,892
Re: How is its EVF?

Lab D wrote:

Wu Jiaqiu wrote:

Jim Salvas wrote:

E-M1: turn exposure compensation dial and watch as the large EVF image changes to match.

D3300: peer through OVF tunnel at reduced-size, unchanging image.

E-M1: watch as EFV compensates for dim lighting in very dark conditions.

D3300: put away your camera.

so before mirrorless and EVF's no one could take a picture in dark conditions?

Who said that? No one. Your remarks are plain silly.

For years though everyone has complained about cheap penta-mirrors and how they were like looking down a long dark tunnel at reduced size. That is nothing new. Penta-prisms and full coverage EVFs (like on the Em1) are better.

and i quote "D3300: put away your camera" it's all above what you wrote, it's simply a falsehood like many comments in this thread

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Digital Dick Senior Member • Posts: 1,916
Re: Nikon D3300 is $499 - how can mirrorless compete?

Yes the 75-300 gives the same angle of view as a 600 on a full frame at a fraction of the size, weight and price.

Dick

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Digital Dick Senior Member • Posts: 1,916
Re: MFT: Micro Frontal Telencephalon?
2

Ford Fiestas outsell Ferraris. Go figure.

Dick

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EarthQuake Senior Member • Posts: 2,631
Re: Nikon D3300 is $499 - how can mirrorless compete?
2

maljo@inreach.com wrote:

a pretty well spec'd camera and gives access to a huge system.

On a budget it would be hard to pick an EM1 over these cheap entry level DSLRs.

maljo

lol

How can Canon compete with this either? It would be hard to pick a 5DIII over the D3300 if your only requirements are "cheap" and "takes photos".

The EM1 is in an entirely different class of cameras, with much, MUCH better controls (two dials LOL), many physical buttons/switches - most of which can be customized, weather sealing, super fast CDAF and on sensor PDAF for tracking (faster and more accurate than the cheap PDAF unit in the D3300 and every other bottom line entry level dslr), industry best IBIS that provides stabilization for *all* lenses, should I keep going?

The D3300 is a great entry level DSLR for the money. What it is not, is a competitor to the EM1, or even EM5 or GX7.

Also, size comparisons, are you guys serious? All Olympus did was put semi-pro handling into a body smaller than Nikon's smallest, most dumb-ed down entry level DSLR. Somehow this is a win for Nikon?

new boyz Regular Member • Posts: 360
Re: Nikon D3300 is $499 - how can mirrorless compete?

maljo@inreach.com wrote:

a pretty well spec'd camera and gives access to a huge system.

On a budget it would be hard to pick an EM1 over these cheap entry level DSLRs.

maljo

Sony A3000 = $399 w/ kit lens. Oh wait, what Sony and Nikon cameras are doing in m43 forum? Leave them alone man. Maybe we should stop this mirrorless vs DSLR thing.

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Wu Jiaqiu
Wu Jiaqiu Forum Pro • Posts: 23,892
Re: Nikon D3300 is $499 - how can mirrorless compete?

Digital Dick wrote:

Yes the 75-300 gives the same angle of view as a 600 on a full frame at a fraction of the size, weight and price.

Dick

but it's not a 600mm lens, and a DX camera gives you a 1.5x crop....and you can buy a 600mm lens for it that will AF

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EarthQuake Senior Member • Posts: 2,631
Re: Nikon D3300 is $499 - how can mirrorless compete?

Wu Jiaqiu wrote:

Digital Dick wrote:

Yes the 75-300 gives the same angle of view as a 600 on a full frame at a fraction of the size, weight and price.

Dick

but it's not a 600mm lens, and a DX camera gives you a 1.5x crop....and you can buy a 600mm lens for it that will AF

Even still, a 100-400mm DSLR lens is significantly larger than an Oly 75-300, or Pana 100-300.

There currently is no 450mm native mount AF lens for M43rds that would get you to 900mm equiv(as a 600mm on APS-C would). Native lenses longer than 600mm equiv is a gap in the system.

If you want to be crazy you can use the 43 300/2.8 with a 1.4x (420/4) and get basically there, the 2x gets you to 600/5.6, or 1200mm equiv. Smaller and lighter than the Nikon 600/4 as well, though I doubt AF would be comparable considering its a 43 lens with TC + adapter.

Wu Jiaqiu
Wu Jiaqiu Forum Pro • Posts: 23,892
Re: Nikon D3300 is $499 - how can mirrorless compete?

EarthQuake wrote:

Wu Jiaqiu wrote:

Digital Dick wrote:

Yes the 75-300 gives the same angle of view as a 600 on a full frame at a fraction of the size, weight and price.

Dick

but it's not a 600mm lens, and a DX camera gives you a 1.5x crop....and you can buy a 600mm lens for it that will AF

Even still, a 100-400mm DSLR lens is significantly larger than an Oly 75-300, or Pana 100-300.

There currently is no 450mm native mount AF lens for M43rds that would get you to 900mm equiv(as a 600mm on APS-C would). Native lenses longer than 600mm equiv is a gap in the system.

If you want to be crazy you can use the 43 300/2.8 with a 1.4x (420/4) and get basically there, the 2x gets you to 600/5.6, or 1200mm equiv. Smaller and lighter than the Nikon 600/4 as well, though I doubt AF would be comparable considering its a 43 lens with TC + adapter.

there is no debate that the DX system will be bigger and the telephotos considerably bigger, mFT needs a good 400mm prime or you could try and find a bigma and use the 4/3rds adapter

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P S Senior Member • Posts: 1,391
Re: D3300 = 490 grams vs EM1 = 497 grams
1

paulo79 wrote:

If only someone had pointed this out to me sooner. When I bought my EM1 the first thing I asked the guy in the shop was do you have any cameras which weigh 490g? He said no, but the EM1 was 497g, and might be a good fit for my needs. He started prattling on about things like Weather sealing, control layouts, PD focusing with 43 lens and all that crap, but to be honest that is not important to me, all I really wanted was a camera that weighed 490g, but I had to settle for 497g!

Why oh why oh why could you not have given me this wisdom sooner? You should seriously get your own newspaper or something with such brilliant insights and masterful comparisons.

LOL

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PS

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Mike Ronesia
Mike Ronesia Veteran Member • Posts: 3,043
Re: Nikon D3300 is $499 - how can mirrorless compete?
2

I'll stick with my entry level M4/3's camera, thank you very much. Even with the magnesium alloy body my GM1 is a little lighter then the (I assume) plastic 3300.  274g vs. 725g.

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Mark James
A.K.A. Mike Ronesia

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EarthQuake Senior Member • Posts: 2,631
Re: Nikon D3300 is $499 - how can mirrorless compete?

Wu Jiaqiu wrote:

EarthQuake wrote:

Wu Jiaqiu wrote:

Digital Dick wrote:

Yes the 75-300 gives the same angle of view as a 600 on a full frame at a fraction of the size, weight and price.

Dick

but it's not a 600mm lens, and a DX camera gives you a 1.5x crop....and you can buy a 600mm lens for it that will AF

Even still, a 100-400mm DSLR lens is significantly larger than an Oly 75-300, or Pana 100-300.

There currently is no 450mm native mount AF lens for M43rds that would get you to 900mm equiv(as a 600mm on APS-C would). Native lenses longer than 600mm equiv is a gap in the system.

If you want to be crazy you can use the 43 300/2.8 with a 1.4x (420/4) and get basically there, the 2x gets you to 600/5.6, or 1200mm equiv. Smaller and lighter than the Nikon 600/4 as well, though I doubt AF would be comparable considering its a 43 lens with TC + adapter.

there is no debate that the DX system will be bigger and the telephotos considerably bigger, mFT needs a good 400mm prime or you could try and find a bigma and use the 4/3rds adapter

Yeah, a 400/5.6, or even a 200-400/5.6 would be good for the system. A 400/4 would be nice as well, but probably a little excessive.

I'll take a 7/8mm 2.8/4 prime while we're at it.

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