Sigma 50mm f1.4 ART

Started Jan 6, 2014 | Discussions
turbsy
turbsy Contributing Member • Posts: 905
Re: Sigma 50mm f1.4 ART
1

HBowman wrote:

We can compare a 58mm lens to a 50mm lens but bear in mind that if the Nikkor 58mm do have a better bokeh, it is in part due to the extra 8mm ... it is part of the Nikon trick.

That said, the optical formula of the upcoming SIGMA 50mm ART is brand new and kind of complicated. It is not the same as the Otus but it come close in term of complications. The size and the extensive use of special glass in the Otus justifies his price by himself : 6 huge special glass elements VS 3 moderate sized elements in the SIGMA.

However, you need to know that SIGMA changed drastically his trajectory since Kasuto San took the control, and this is only the start. The main weapon, beside the lens engineering, is their A1 machine to control the lenses. The new lenses should resolve WO the Merrill sensor and that is not an easy task. It also need to circumvent the color aberrations of the Merrill sensor and that too... is not an easy task. Before this machine, they measured the lenses with a Zeiss MTF machine. The A1 machine is far superior and they now calculate the lenses to match this superiority thus the excellence of the new lenses.

Add a wonderful construction and noble materials ... and you have some very serious glass in your bag for a very correct price. SIGMA Art lenses are more close to Zeiss quality than Nikon quality, period, in term of performance and build construction.

SIGMA is independent and do not joke, at all. This is only the start. Having used lately the 58 f1.4... well, ya know ... it is not a serious lens. Only on paper and propaganda. I returned it and I'm more satisfied with my 50f1.2, every day.

It's not for me but why isn't it a serious lens?   I've seen some amazing photos shot with the 58mm.  It might not be for you either but calling it Propaganda is silly.

So now, be sure that the upcoming reviews and tests will absolutely not disappoint you. Even DxO will rate it high, much that what you can expect if you are sceptical.

This is the best 50mm after the Otus. For the price (who will be under 1000$), it will be ranked among the best actual lenses at all levels (performance, build, price...) ... in the 50mm range of course... just wait the upcoming 85 ...

where are you getting your information from.  I haven't seen a price or anything that suggests that it will be the Best 50mm.  I hope your right I love my 35mm Art but I will wait to see some samples to see if  it lives up to your  made up comments.

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HBowman
HBowman Senior Member • Posts: 1,237
Re: Sigma 50mm f1.4 ART
1

This is precognition. Some PPL are more sensible to the Force than other.

Future will tell (and many already know that it will be excellent, deep in their soul).

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HBowman
HBowman Senior Member • Posts: 1,237
Re: Sigma 50mm f1.4 ART
1

For the 58f1.4, It is a big chunk of plastic with few elements in it, warped in a lamentable marketing campaign and ... a golden ring. Poor engineer who was forced to churn out a whole blabla on the "subjectivity" ... the artistic "thing" of this lens ... "It is not that sharp but... ya know ... this is a character lens ... well ... humm ... should I write about any more boss ??? "

A 30 years old 50 f12 is sharp at F1.2 and have character. Nobody can come here, pompous, to say that this 58mm oddity is the pinnacle of the 50mm lens line. Ridiculous.

Who the hell can swallow this ?? In his correct mind I mean !!

Like the DF ... poor camera seriously.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHNm54U1nQ4

(and I tested it !!!).

And don't be fooled !! I love Nikon and use Nikon every day. They are absoluttely not what they used to be, period.

SIGMA is on fire but more than that : They provide to the public what the public want.

Nikon provide to the public some things that the public do not really want after all. Go fork out 1700 US$ for the plastic fantastic 58mm if it please you.

We both know that SIGMA gain and will gain far more credit and popularity, big time. No need precognition for that, just common sens.

Nikon users wait many lenses and camera since along time, like the D400, and AS-G 135 f2 optimized for portrait for exemple... and many more... or a D4 sensor in a D800 body ...

They can but they don't. Forums and unpopularity are the reflect of the last years Nikon move.

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bogrod Forum Member • Posts: 58
Re: Sigma 50mm f1.4 ART

t.c. marino wrote:

nikon is not giving us their best effort,the 58mm 1.4 is overpriced and comes up a bit short..especially wide open.. one would expect better from a $1,500 dollar plus lens ..very soft wide open and at close focus distances,did you read the lack luster review on this site? i'm a big fan of nikon,their loyal customers deserve better.

As noted, if the only or primary concern is sharpness, then yes you need to move onto something else.  If, however, you're into visually striking images, then there's something to be had.

I also don't know how you've summarily concluded that Nikon has not given us their best effort.  If you're a lens designer and you have conclusive proof that Nikon has somehow cheated us, and the optical formula that they created could have had increased sharpness (keeping every other aspect of the lens performance the same) I'd be more than happy to learn.

Scott McMorrow Regular Member • Posts: 366
Re: Side by side MTF plots of Nikon 50mm f/1.8G vs Sigma 50mm f/1.4 Art

Bostjan

Those plots came from this page.  It could be for the Art, but there's nothing that indicates that on the page.

http://www.sigma-photo.co.jp/english/new/new_topic.php?id=409

turbsy
turbsy Contributing Member • Posts: 905
Re: Sigma 50mm f1.4 ART

HBowman wrote:

This is precognition. Some PPL are more sensible to the Force than other.

Future will tell (and many already know that it will be excellent, deep in their soul).

So you don't know what your talking about then?  Sorry but I will wait for the review I'm just not that strong with the force.

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turbsy
turbsy Contributing Member • Posts: 905
Re: Sigma 50mm f1.4 ART

HBowman wrote:

For the 58f1.4, It is a big chunk of plastic with few elements in it, warped in a lamentable marketing campaign and ... a golden ring. Poor engineer who was forced to churn out a whole blabla on the "subjectivity" ... the artistic "thing" of this lens ... "It is not that sharp but... ya know ... this is a character lens ... well ... humm ... should I write about any more boss ??? "

Yes you should try to make some point.  if all you care about is sharpness wide open then good luck with your photos.

A 30 years old 50 f12 is sharp at F1.2 and have character. Nobody can come here, pompous, to say that this 58mm oddity is the pinnacle of the 50mm lens line. Ridiculous.

Who said it was?  It's obviously not for you.  I tend to like what I've seen from it but it's not for me either.

Who the hell can swallow this ?? In his correct mind I mean !!

Like the DF ... poor camera seriously.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHNm54U1nQ4

(and I tested it !!!).

And don't be fooled !! I love Nikon and use Nikon every day. They are absoluttely not what they used to be, period.

SIGMA is on fire but more than that : They provide to the public what the public want.

Nikon provide to the public some things that the public do not really want after all. Go fork out 1700 US$ for the plastic fantastic 58mm if it please you.

Some people seem to like it so your wrong.

We both know that SIGMA gain and will gain far more credit and popularity, big time. No need precognition for that, just common sens.

I agree sigma is on a role with the Art lenses.

Nikon users wait many lenses and camera since along time, like the D400, and AS-G 135 f2 optimized for portrait for exemple... and many more... or a D4 sensor in a D800 body ...

They can but they don't. Forums and unpopularity are the reflect of the last years Nikon move.

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Scott McMorrow Regular Member • Posts: 366
Re: Side by side MTF plots of Nikon 50mm f/1.8G vs Sigma 50mm f/1.4 Art

Bostjan,

Looking at the plot in more detail, it may very well be the 50mm Art lens.  MTF plot looks similar to the 35mm Art.  Here are the plots for the Nikon 50mm f/1.4G, Nikon 58mm f/1.4G, Nikon 50mm f/1.8G, Sigma50mm f/1.4 Art, Zeiss Otus 55mm f/1.4, and Sigma 35mm f/1.4 Art

If this is truly the MTF plot for the new Sigma lens, then it crushes all of the other Nikon lenses at f/1.4, and even equals the 50mm f/1.8G wide open.

The Zeiss Otus is just in another league.

sgoldswo
OP sgoldswo Veteran Member • Posts: 5,717
Re: Sigma 50mm f1.4 ART

HBowman wrote:

For the 58f1.4, It is a big chunk of plastic with few elements in it, warped in a lamentable marketing campaign and ... a golden ring. Poor engineer who was forced to churn out a whole blabla on the "subjectivity" ... the artistic "thing" of this lens ... "It is not that sharp but... ya know ... this is a character lens ... well ... humm ... should I write about any more boss ??? "

A 30 years old 50 f12 is sharp at F1.2 and have character. Nobody can come here, pompous, to say that this 58mm oddity is the pinnacle of the 50mm lens line. Ridiculous.

Nasim over at photography life seems to like it: http://photographylife.com/reviews/nikon-58mm-f1-4g

Who the hell can swallow this ?? In his correct mind I mean !!

Like the DF ... poor camera seriously.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHNm54U1nQ4

(and I tested it !!!).

and I own it and it's great - I appreciate you don't like it but there's no need to trash it on the lens forum.

And don't be fooled !! I love Nikon and use Nikon every day. They are absoluttely not what they used to be, period.

SIGMA is on fire but more than that : They provide to the public what the public want.

Agree, but while I love the 35, it still has some character. It would be nice if the 50 could match that.

Nikon provide to the public some things that the public do not really want after all. Go fork out 1700 US$ for the plastic fantastic 58mm if it please you.

We both know that SIGMA gain and will gain far more credit and popularity, big time. No need precognition for that, just common sens.

Nikon users wait many lenses and camera since along time, like the D400, and AS-G 135 f2 optimized for portrait for exemple... and many more... or a D4 sensor in a D800 body ...

I think a small minority want a D400. The days of APS-C pro-spec cameras have sadly passed

They can but they don't. Forums and unpopularity are the reflect of the last years Nikon move.

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bogrod Forum Member • Posts: 58
Re: Sigma 50mm f1.4 ART

I've owned bot the 50mm f/1.2 and t he new 58 f/1.4. I took some terrific shots with the 50 1.2, including one image that i think is one of the best I've ever made. However, the lens was about as soft as a cloud wide open, huge light falloff, and sometimes really distracting bokeh. the new 58 suffers from none of those factors.

The fact that you'd call this a lens that is not serious says it all.

AWG_Pics Senior Member • Posts: 1,164
I am buying more Sigma glass lately

Somewhat to my surprise I now have the Sigma 35 Art, the 18-35 and the 150-500 and I use them all. This 50 is very tempting since I have a couple of not as inspiring as I had hoped nikon 50's -- including the old 50 f1.2 manual -- but if this new Sigma 50 is as good as the 35 sigma then I guess I am sold.

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windsprite
windsprite Senior Member • Posts: 2,554
Re: Sigma 50mm f1.4 ART

bogrod wrote:

I've owned bot the 50mm f/1.2 and t he new 58 f/1.4. I took some terrific shots with the 50 1.2, including one image that i think is one of the best I've ever made. However, the lens was about as soft as a cloud wide open, huge light falloff, and sometimes really distracting bokeh.

Getting a little off topic here, but --

I don't disagree about the light falloff and sometimes distracting bokeh on the 50/1.2, but if your copy is "soft as a cloud" wide open, then there's something wrong.  Unless maybe you're talking edge performance.  There is definitely a loss of contrast, and you have to really nail the focus, but otherwise I've found it pretty sharp wide open.

Julie

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thelenspainter Senior Member • Posts: 1,894
Re: Sigma 50mm f1.4 ART

windsprite wrote:

Getting a little off topic here, but --

I don't disagree about the light falloff and sometimes distracting bokeh on the 50/1.2, but if your copy is "soft as a cloud" wide open, then there's something wrong. Unless maybe you're talking edge performance. There is definitely a loss of contrast, and you have to really nail the focus, but otherwise I've found it pretty sharp wide open.

Julie

Agreed - my 50/1.2 is the same. Very low contrast at the maximum aperture, but plenty of sharpness and detail near the centre of the frame at f/1.2, especially once the focus distance is more than two feet or so.

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windsprite
windsprite Senior Member • Posts: 2,554
Re: Sigma 50mm f1.4 ART

thelenspainter wrote:

windsprite wrote:

Getting a little off topic here, but --

I don't disagree about the light falloff and sometimes distracting bokeh on the 50/1.2, but if your copy is "soft as a cloud" wide open, then there's something wrong. Unless maybe you're talking edge performance. There is definitely a loss of contrast, and you have to really nail the focus, but otherwise I've found it pretty sharp wide open.

Julie

Agreed - my 50/1.2 is the same. Very low contrast at the maximum aperture, but plenty of sharpness and detail near the centre of the frame at f/1.2, especially once the focus distance is more than two feet or so.

Yup! 

Julie

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Zvonko
Zvonko Regular Member • Posts: 341
Re: Sigma 50mm f1.4 ART... miss the point
2

I don't read charts. Isn't it simple?? I'd like a really good 50ish mm for a decent price. I have the current Sigma, it's very good. I was gonna buy the new Nikkor Noct but this new Sigma may be a better bargain. Rounded blades, cheaper than an owl. What's the problem??

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AZ Steve Regular Member • Posts: 282
Re: Sigma 50mm f1.4 ART

My Sigma 35mm is a bit soft at the edges at infinity at f/5.6, less so at f/8, just a bit worse than the center.  The center I'm pretty sure is sensor-limited on the D800E.  Tim Ashley's postings from his 4th (!) copy look a lot like mine.  Is this consistent with your experience?

A couple of Nikkor 50mm f/1.4s of differing age seem to have edges at f/5.6 almost as good as the center, certainly not softened as much as the Sigma.  This sounds vague because it is.

Maybe we could all get together and fund a Mt-Rushmore-sized resolution target.

anotherMike Veteran Member • Posts: 9,167
Re: Sigma 50mm f1.4 ART
10

I don't at all disagree with you that Sigma is on a roll; 2-3 years ago I wouldn't take a Sigma if you gave me one, and I include their current (earlier) 50 and 85 F/1.4 designs in that statement. But when the son took over and they came out with the Sigma 35/1.4 Art, I was impressed.
 It's my most used lens in the studio for full length artistic fashion, as the lenses strength is close to moderate range sharpness, where it has no peers from anyone else, Nikon, Zeiss or Samyang included.

However, at the same time, Sigma hasn't found the secret to breaking the laws of physics either, and given no lens is perfect, while it performs quite well at landscape distances, I have to be honest and say that while it still is my landscape 35mm of choice, that I tend to reach for the Nikon 28/1.8G instead for things distant.

As for the 58/1.4 - the designer is Haruo Sato, who you seem to speak so ill of. I can assure you that if Haruo wanted to, he could have designed a 50mm lens that would blow your socks off on the test charts and in terms of sharpness. Might I remind you that he was heavily involved with this sorta well known for sharpness lens called the 14-24/2.8 zoom - you know - the lens that except for a few specific cases is as sharp or sharper than many primes. But if you study his work and writings (I have), you'll come to see that he's not one to think ONLY in terms of test chart performance and sharpness. I honestly think, given he's a senior designer now (and one of their two very good wide angle designers - Hiroki Harada being the other and possibly the best wide angle designer of the whole bunch), that the 58 was a personal "pet project" for him - sometimes Nikon has allowed designers/engineers to go do their thing as opposed to just doing what everyone else would do (design a test chart lens), so Haruo went and designed a 58mm lens with a very distinct flavor and rendering meant for specific tasks as opposed to doing a generalist 50 that would excel at many tasks. I've shot with the 58 twice and while I was very impressed with it's subjective rendering, given my needs for a 50ish range lens include landscape distances with good corner performance, it didn't quite pass muster for me, so I'm not a buyer - I'm much more likely to look at the Sigma, but at the same time, I'm not going to go out and slam the 58 just because it didn't win the test chart battles. Yea, I am a bit disappointed in the 58 because I would have bought it myself IF the corner performance at F/11 at landscape distances was better, but apparently he can't get around the myriad of tradeoffs involved in lens design either, so it remains a lens that I could see wedding shooters and portrait specialists absolutely loving, even if it's not for me.

The point of this is that one has, I think, look at lenses more with an eye to "suitability to task" as opposed to "test chart winner". Since no lens (at least in wides and normals) is even close to perfect - not the Sigma, not the Nikon, not the Zeiss, etc (OTUS I suppose an exception, but it's way out of the range price wise) - one has to be AWARE of where the lenses are strong, and where they are weak. The Sigma 35/1.4 is stunning, amazing, at closer to moderate distances, but only "very good" but not "astonishing" at landscape. It's my choice because for what *I* do, I require a 35mm lens to shine at the distance range and usage types the Sigma nails and others sadly miss. I'll take a look at the new Sigma 50, but it will need to pass my "corners at long subject distances at F/9" test for me to be interested, even if it's staggeringly sharp in the closer ranges, which I expect it to be - because my needs for a 50 are different than my needs for a 35. And so on. If I shot weddings (I don'), theater (rarely), or event (never), I'd be all over the Nikon 58 because in those scenarios, there simply ISN'T that much super fine detail that requires maximum lp/mm resolution, and hell, if you're shooting on the run, handheld in lousy light with the ISO cranked, you're not even remotely going to be using the resolution capacity of the lens. So the lens is specialist - nothing at all wrong with that. It's good to have choices, even some of the choices don't align well with what you or I (or others) always shoot.

Off my soapbox...

-m

bogrod Forum Member • Posts: 58
Re: Sigma 50mm f1.4 ART

windsprite wrote:

bogrod wrote:

I've owned bot the 50mm f/1.2 and t he new 58 f/1.4. I took some terrific shots with the 50 1.2, including one image that i think is one of the best I've ever made. However, the lens was about as soft as a cloud wide open, huge light falloff, and sometimes really distracting bokeh.

Getting a little off topic here, but --

I don't disagree about the light falloff and sometimes distracting bokeh on the 50/1.2, but if your copy is "soft as a cloud" wide open, then there's something wrong. Unless maybe you're talking edge performance. There is definitely a loss of contrast, and you have to really nail the focus, but otherwise I've found it pretty sharp wide open.

Julie

In the center of the image, it's acceptably good - no question. At least with my sample wide open (which I bought new) it had performance (in multiple categories) that fell off rapidly away from the center. Stopped down to f/2, its performance across the entire frame was raised substantially.

Granted, I deliberately took advantage of the image rendering wide open n many photographic situations.

I still have an extreme fondness for the 50 f/1.2, and I was quick to defends its strengths when a lot of people trashed it for being a "soft" lens.

bogrod Forum Member • Posts: 58
Re: Sigma 50mm f1.4 ART

Actually Mike, your post summed up many things that I agree with completely.

Sadly (and yes this is a SAD fact) some people only want to see the MTF figures. They only care about that - they can't see beyond that, and perhaps most importantly - they refuse to even take a picture with a lens (even one borrowed from a moment over a counter at a camera store) before passing judgment.

They may also dismiss a beautiful photo - even one taken by a respected pro (only when they learn what lens it was that it was shot with) and not the merits of the image itself.

Maybe all of this is making me realize that I am far less of a gearhead than I am use to. Or, maybe it's because I'm starting to view lens critieria from a broader perspective than I use to. In any case, I feel I am better off.

thelenspainter Senior Member • Posts: 1,894
Re: Sigma 50mm f1.4 ART... miss the point

Zvonko wrote:

I don't read charts. Isn't it simple?? I'd like a really good 50ish mm for a decent price. I have the current Sigma, it's very good. I was gonna buy the new Nikkor Noct but this new Sigma may be a better bargain. Rounded blades, cheaper than an owl. What's the problem??

I suspect you meant to reply to a different post...

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