Please help me to stay with Pentax!

Started Jan 5, 2014 | Discussions
Jim in Hudson Senior Member • Posts: 2,051
Re: Please help me to stay with Pentax!

JimBim wrote:

MightyMike wrote:

Shoot RAW and learn how to WB properly, no camera can ever truly get WB perfect, many can come close in many situations but some fall short. I assure you even Nikon falls short. I never trust AWB to get it right, I expect it to come close most of the time but i know how to WB many scenarios either by choosing a neutral white/grey patch or by understanding what WB values are right for sunny, cloudy, shade, and such situations. So consider WB your next target to learn in photography, you'll be amazed at how much better photos will look with the WB set right.

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Mike from Canada
"I am not a great photographer! God is a great creator! All I do is capture His creation with the tools He has provided me."
'I like to think so far outside the box that it would require a telephoto lens just to see the box!' ~ 'My Quote :)'
http://www.michaelfastphotography.com/galleries/VP-BDI_3a.jpg
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Thank you Mike.

I look at this different. I do WB manually on my K20. Because this is an old stuff I'm forgiving. Today, when I have to pay my money I want to do my life easier. For me K3 looks like music instrument made from high end material, well built, but tuning must be done with everyone yourself. I can produce excellent pictures with my istDL in manual mode. And I do. But if I pay money, I expect something what would made my life easier: decent AWB, good jpg quality directly from camera, fast autofocus and so on. And there is not a big difference in price between K3 and 6D or D610.

Audrius

Nothing wrong with those expectations.  One thing to keep in mind is no camera will provide the fully desired output 100% of the time.  Since you only had the opportunity to do one shot, it's hard to make a conclusion.  For example, if you did three other very different shots you may have found the K-3 provided the best result on those.

As for shooting JPEG images of dogs, you shouldn't have any problem with a Pentax.  Either switch to Natural or lower saturation in Bright to -1 and avoid shooting any dogs that are of a very strong red color and you will be pleased.  

 Jim in Hudson's gear list:Jim in Hudson's gear list
Pentax K-3 Olympus E-M1 Pentax smc DA 18-135mm F3.5-5.6ED AL [IF] DC WR Sigma 10-20mm F4-5.6 EX DC HSM Sigma 17-70mm F2.8-4 DC Macro OS HSM | C +4 more
starjedi Forum Member • Posts: 96
Re: Please help me to stay with Pentax!

The equilvalent focus length for K3 is 75mm here. It is not surprising to find the difference in AWB and exposure comparing to D610 and 6D due to different field view and DOF. A more unbias comparision should be using 35mm in K3 vs 50mm in D610 and 6D if you are more concerning about those automatical stuffs.

Here is my thought: What bother you in the photos are in fact minor issues  (which comes from one "biased" test). K3/D610/6D all are good cameras. In some situations/functionality, K3 will apparently win and in some situation, D610/6D will surely some advantage (eg: 2/3-1 stop better low light ISO sensitivity).  Anyway, you can have amazing pictures for either of the three cameras and will not be wrong to choose any of them.

Just my 2 cents

flektogon
flektogon Senior Member • Posts: 2,115
Re: Please help me to stay with Pentax!
1

I think that if you plan to shoot a lot at high ISO, then the K-3 is not for you. The K-5(II/IIs) are a little bit better. But the same problem (i.e. the picture noise) very likely you will encounter at any FF camera having 36 Mp sensor. If you really want a (almost) noise-free camera, then look at the latest Nikon Df, which has only a 16 Mp sensor.

James O'Neill Veteran Member • Posts: 4,346
Re: Please help me to stay with Pentax!
2

JimBim wrote:

James O'Neill wrote:

JimBim wrote:

I’m comming to conclusion to upgrade my gear. Since 1997 I’m with Pentax. This time I decided to look to other land, specifically C, N. I see by testing those cameras inside dealer shop, that pictures from D610 and 6D are better compare to K3. What is your oppinion - might be I’m doing something wrong? Or this is because C and N are FF. Might be lens? All shoots are at ISO1600, AWB, F2.8; lens 50mm F1.4. I cropped C and N pictures to fit Pentax sensor size. No PP, jpg output, hands held, luminescent lighting.

I know that some of you complemented Pentax system with N or C. Can you share your experience? I’m really trying to find arguments to stay with Pentax!

That's your comparison ? How much do you shoot at ISO 1600 ?

I have to say there's not much difference between the pictures, the Pentax looks to have its JPEG contrast set higher, and have the option to leave tungsten light slightly warm in AWB selected. My hunch is if you optimized the JPG settings they'd look even closer.

If you're weighing up which of 3 very capable cameras to buy, go for the one which feels best and most natural when you come to shoot with it. Suppose the Canon produces very slightly better images; I can't get on with Canon controls, so if I bought one it would stay on the shelf rather than go out shooting. The best camera is the one you go and shoot with . You also need to take into account the cost of changing lenses and accessories if you switch systems.

If you like using the Canon or Nikon more and the cost of changing systems isn't prohibitive, CHANGE. No one will hate you, no need to feel guilty. If you like using the Pentax more, stay. Don't expect other people to make your decision,

Sounds like if you are not praying for Pentax - go out! By the way, when I'm going for a trip I grab my istDL and I'm happy with output (in normal day light). But I'm doing a lot of shooting inside and have to use flash. These days ISO1600 is normal, I'm not talking about 3000 and above.

Not quite sure what you mean.  You are comparing 3 state of the art cameras, in a not very realistic test. Any of those cameras will take great pictures.

Don't stay with Pentax if you would be happier with another makers cameras in your hands - a miserable Pentax user is no use to anyone and it's not our job to persuade you to be one. Better that you go off and become a happy Nikon user in that case.

If you are happy  using Pentax, take a little time to get the JPG settings right, and then don't agonize whether something else might have been a hairs breadth better when you stare at pixels long enough. The fact is you might not have taken the picture at all if you had a camera you don't like. In that case buy the Pentax and don't look back.

 James O'Neill's gear list:James O'Neill's gear list
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MightyMike Forum Pro • Posts: 36,568
Re: Please help me to stay with Pentax!

JimBim wrote:

MightyMike wrote:

Shoot RAW and learn how to WB properly, no camera can ever truly get WB perfect, many can come close in many situations but some fall short. I assure you even Nikon falls short. I never trust AWB to get it right, I expect it to come close most of the time but i know how to WB many scenarios either by choosing a neutral white/grey patch or by understanding what WB values are right for sunny, cloudy, shade, and such situations. So consider WB your next target to learn in photography, you'll be amazed at how much better photos will look with the WB set right.

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Mike from Canada
"I am not a great photographer! God is a great creator! All I do is capture His creation with the tools He has provided me."
'I like to think so far outside the box that it would require a telephoto lens just to see the box!' ~ 'My Quote :)'
http://www.michaelfastphotography.com/galleries/VP-BDI_3a.jpg
http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?sort_order=views%20DESC&first_this_page=0&page_limit=180&&emailsearch=mighty_mike88%40hotmail.com&thumbnails=

Thank you Mike.

I look at this different. I do WB manually on my K20. Because this is an old stuff I'm forgiving. Today, when I have to pay my money I want to do my life easier. For me K3 looks like music instrument made from high end material, well built, but tuning must be done with everyone yourself. I can produce excellent pictures with my istDL in manual mode. And I do. But if I pay money, I expect something what would made my life easier: decent AWB, good jpg quality directly from camera, fast autofocus and so on. And there is not a big difference in price between K3 and 6D or D610.

Audrius

It takes me anywhere from 0.5sec to 5sec to set the WB in RAW depending on how finicky I'm being... it takes me 3-6 minutes to edit an image completely, i don't open nor do i edit every RAW photo i take, just the ones i think are good enough to go into a gallery and never duplicates unless the series is significant and even in that case i can just edit 1 and apply that edit to the rest.

0.5sec to 5sec is hardly an inconvenience when one considers how much the right WB can go towards making a great photo.

I also say there is no such thing as decent AWB! to anyone who has looked into this carefully they know AWB regardless of the system gets things right maybe 5-10% of the time. however if you're happy with close and sometimes way off then sure enjoy what AWB has to offer.

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Mike from Canada
"I am not a great photographer! God is a great creator! All I do is capture His creation with the tools He has provided me."
'I like to think so far outside the box that it would require a telephoto lens just to see the box!' ~ 'My Quote :)'
http://www.michaelfastphotography.com/galleries/VP-BDI_3a.jpg
http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?sort_order=views%20DESC&first_this_page=0&page_limit=180&&emailsearch=mighty_mike88%40hotmail.com&thumbnails=

JimBim OP Regular Member • Posts: 221
Re: Please help me to stay with Pentax!

MightyMike wrote:

JimBim wrote:

MightyMike wrote:

Shoot RAW and learn how to WB properly, no camera can ever truly get WB perfect, many can come close in many situations but some fall short. I assure you even Nikon falls short. I never trust AWB to get it right, I expect it to come close most of the time but i know how to WB many scenarios either by choosing a neutral white/grey patch or by understanding what WB values are right for sunny, cloudy, shade, and such situations. So consider WB your next target to learn in photography, you'll be amazed at how much better photos will look with the WB set right.

-- hide signature --

Mike from Canada
"I am not a great photographer! God is a great creator! All I do is capture His creation with the tools He has provided me."
'I like to think so far outside the box that it would require a telephoto lens just to see the box!' ~ 'My Quote :)'
http://www.michaelfastphotography.com/galleries/VP-BDI_3a.jpg
http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?sort_order=views%20DESC&first_this_page=0&page_limit=180&&emailsearch=mighty_mike88%40hotmail.com&thumbnails=

Thank you Mike.

I look at this different. I do WB manually on my K20. Because this is an old stuff I'm forgiving. Today, when I have to pay my money I want to do my life easier. For me K3 looks like music instrument made from high end material, well built, but tuning must be done with everyone yourself. I can produce excellent pictures with my istDL in manual mode. And I do. But if I pay money, I expect something what would made my life easier: decent AWB, good jpg quality directly from camera, fast autofocus and so on. And there is not a big difference in price between K3 and 6D or D610.

Audrius

It takes me anywhere from 0.5sec to 5sec to set the WB in RAW depending on how finicky I'm being... it takes me 3-6 minutes to edit an image completely, i don't open nor do i edit every RAW photo i take, just the ones i think are good enough to go into a gallery and never duplicates unless the series is significant and even in that case i can just edit 1 and apply that edit to the rest.

0.5sec to 5sec is hardly an inconvenience when one considers how much the right WB can go towards making a great photo.

I also say there is no such thing as decent AWB! to anyone who has looked into this carefully they know AWB regardless of the system gets things right maybe 5-10% of the time. however if you're happy with close and sometimes way off then sure enjoy what AWB has to offer.

-- hide signature --

Mike from Canada
"I am not a great photographer! God is a great creator! All I do is capture His creation with the tools He has provided me."
'I like to think so far outside the box that it would require a telephoto lens just to see the box!' ~ 'My Quote :)'
http://www.michaelfastphotography.com/galleries/VP-BDI_3a.jpg
http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?sort_order=views%20DESC&first_this_page=0&page_limit=180&&emailsearch=mighty_mike88%40hotmail.com&thumbnails=

Thank you Mike! I like your ideas.

Audrius

 JimBim's gear list:JimBim's gear list
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Wanganuilad
Wanganuilad Senior Member • Posts: 2,210
Re: Please help me to stay with Pentax!

JimBim wrote:

.... I see by testing those cameras inside dealer shop,

None of those cameras are doing that woman any justice, she looks realy crook

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K-5 K-01 some Len

jackdan Contributing Member • Posts: 896
Re: Please help me to stay with Pentax!

It is not clear to me. Did you or did you not turn auto NR off on the K3?

kenyee Senior Member • Posts: 1,522
Why do you feel they're better?

JimBim wrote:

I’m comming to conclusion to upgrade my gear. Since 1997 I’m with Pentax. This time I decided to look to other land, specifically C, N. I see by testing those cameras inside dealer shop, that pictures from D610 and 6D are better compare to K3.

Out of curiosity, what do you see is better?  It would help w/ recommendations.

Color?  Sharpness? focusing?  WB?

They all look a little bit different to me.  Did you get a chance to try the Olympus EM-1 while you were there as well?

For dog show shots, you probably want better focusing and fast lenses would be my guess.  The least expensive entry is probably the D7100 because the AF module is best at the price point you're looking at.  The D610 has the D7000's old AF module which is a lot weaker but I'm not sure if the 6D's AF is better.  FF has narrower DOF, so you might have a harder time keeping enough of the dog in focus.

As for the K-3, best bet would be for you to try it at a dog show...rent it for a weekend the next show and use whatever lens you're using w/ your istD.  If you think it's better, buy it.  If not, try another camera to see if it's better.

I doubt you're blowing up your images to 20x30" resolution, so honestly anything w/ at least 16MP is fine.

 kenyee's gear list:kenyee's gear list
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dave
dave Senior Member • Posts: 1,340
Re: Please help me to stay with Pentax!

Get a Sony A7 with Pentax adapter if you want FF. It will have excellent results and you can keep your excellent Pentax lenses.

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Pentax K5ii Canon 5D

 dave's gear list:dave's gear list
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citrontokyo Contributing Member • Posts: 812
Re: No!
1

newmikey wrote:

Besides that, I couldn't care a horse's behind whether or not you or anyone else stays with Pentax, not even whether I myself will. A camera is a tool and as long as it does what I want/need it'll be my tool.

Speaking of tools... 

Seriously, if you didn't care, why does it show in your message that you really do?

How sweet!

 citrontokyo's gear list:citrontokyo's gear list
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JeffAHayes
JeffAHayes Senior Member • Posts: 1,968
Re: Please help me to stay with Pentax!
2

JimBim wrote:

MightyMike wrote:

Shoot RAW and learn how to WB properly, no camera can ever truly get WB perfect, many can come close in many situations but some fall short. I assure you even Nikon falls short. I never trust AWB to get it right, I expect it to come close most of the time but i know how to WB many scenarios either by choosing a neutral white/grey patch or by understanding what WB values are right for sunny, cloudy, shade, and such situations. So consider WB your next target to learn in photography, you'll be amazed at how much better photos will look with the WB set right.

-- hide signature --

Mike from Canada
"I am not a great photographer! God is a great creator! All I do is capture His creation with the tools He has provided me."
'I like to think so far outside the box that it would require a telephoto lens just to see the box!' ~ 'My Quote :)'
http://www.michaelfastphotography.com/galleries/VP-BDI_3a.jpg
http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?sort_order=views%20DESC&first_this_page=0&page_limit=180&&emailsearch=mighty_mike88%40hotmail.com&thumbnails=

Thank you Mike.

I look at this different. I do WB manually on my K20. Because this is an old stuff I'm forgiving. Today, when I have to pay my money I want to do my life easier. For me K3 looks like music instrument made from high end material, well built, but tuning must be done with everyone yourself. I can produce excellent pictures with my istDL in manual mode. And I do. But if I pay money, I expect something what would made my life easier: decent AWB, good jpg quality directly from camera, fast autofocus and so on. And there is not a big difference in price between K3 and 6D or D610.

Audrius

It would SEEM that should be the case, Audrius, BUT spending MORE money on a camera DOES NOT mean it will be EASIER to use or "make your life easier." A case in point (and this point has ALSO been made by the experts in photo magazines), although it's a VERY SAFE BET that all the serious, full-time professional photographers who pay MANY THOUSANDS of dollars for cameras such as the Canon EOS-1D X or the Nikon D4 (or the very popular Canon 5D Mark III) that they would LIKE to have a built-in flash like the rest of us do, that feature ISN'T included on those cameras, for whatever reason(s). So when one of those pros, who may have paid as much as $6,800 just for the camera BODY, needs even only a LITTLE flash for fill, he or she has no choice but to put something in the hot shoe or use some other form of external lighting or strobe.

Also, the more pro-level cameras tend to have many more options on them in the way of customization, such that the shooter can essentially control everything the camera does. The K-3 leans in that direction more than ANY APS-C camera in history, which is a big part of why it's gotten as many great reviews as it has. In addition to major improvements in both autofocus and metering, this became the first-ever camera to have NO AA filter, but a technological way to SIMULATE the AA filter. But it also has a variety of of features that can affect sharpness and other things, such as High-ISO Noise Reduction, which is too aggressive on AUTO and needs to be set to CUSTOM, and told to NOT kick in until about ISO 3200. Leaving the AA simulator off gives yet another level of sharpness. The K-3 comes with BOTH of these things turned ON.

And there are A NUMBER of other areas in which settings can be "tweaked" to improve the camera to an individual user's tastes. Sharpness can be set to several different levels, for instance. One may ask WHY would anyone want the sharpness setting on anything but FINE to begin with... Well, what if you WANT a "dreamy," sort of blurry looking photo. There's a bit of an option there. There are so many different options on this camera that it takes some time to sit down and go through the menus and learn them. And NEVER assume it came from the factory set up how you WANT it set up. That may be true for one shooter in 20, if that.

Go to the Ricoh website and download the manual for the K-3 and read through it. It's not that long -- just a bit more than 100 pages. It won't cover all the menu items in detail, but it will give you a taste of what's there.

Jeff

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A word is worth 1/1000th of a picture... Maybe that's why I use so many words!

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geo444
geo444 Regular Member • Posts: 482
D600+Samy35/1.4 = hand-held Night-Shots at iso100-200
1
Petroglyph
Petroglyph Veteran Member • Posts: 5,706
Re: Please help me to stay with Pentax!

Wow,  The K3 really nailed the red in the shirt on that mannequin!  Looks like the WB on the other two must have been off to get that orange-washed out-red.  I'd be workin' on that in post if it was me.  Looks like spot metering on the K3 but still plenty of details remain in the face - easy to adjust and wouldn't require much.  Great cameras - what's the issue?

Cheers.

 Petroglyph's gear list:Petroglyph's gear list
Pentax K-1 Sony Alpha 7R II Sony FE 90mm F2.8 macro Sony 16-35mm F2.8 ZA SSM Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* Pentax smc FA 77mm 1.8 Limited +4 more
awaldram
awaldram Forum Pro • Posts: 12,721
Re: D600+Samy35/1.4 = hand-held Night-Shots at iso100-200

Sorry I;m missing something.

iso 100-200 and f3.5 I don't see anything that impressive.

There not bad but any modern camera even a P+S would deliver similar images, neither perceived resolution nor sharpness are exceptional.

Some of the images seem a little noisy given the low ISO used though maybe jpeg artifacts.

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Pentax Q Pentax K-3 Pentax Q7 Pentax K-x Pentax smc DA 40mm F2.8 Limited +15 more
klavrack Contributing Member • Posts: 691
Re: Please help me to stay with Pentax!

Given how you want to use the camera, I think a k-5ii would be by a fair margin better for you than any of the 3 you tried.

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Pentax K-1 Pentax K-3 Nikon D5600
geo444
geo444 Regular Member • Posts: 482
Re: D600+Samy35/1.4 = hand-held Night-Shots at iso100-200

awaldram wrote:

Sorry I'm missing something.

iso 100-200 and f/2.5-3.5 I don't see anything that impressive.

each shot is 1-3 Ev Underexposed... else no hand-held = no freedom is possible !

There not bad but any modern camera even a P+S would deliver similar images, neither perceived resolution nor sharpness are exceptional.

so, we can conclude : IQ in low-light depends first... on The Lens Used ?

thank's to the Samyang 35mm f/1.4 : Sharp from corner to corner from f/2 to f/11

+ thank's to the Sony Exmor sensor inside the D600 : very low Noise at iso 100-200
so you can push the shadows... Even on the Low-Quality JPGs embedded in NEFs !
this would not at all be feasible with my Canon Eos 5d (iso 800-1600 mandatory)

Some of the images seem a little noisy given the low ISO used though maybe jpeg artifacts.

it's the Low-Quality JPGs embedded in NEFs... I will pp the NEF files as soon as possible...

brandagnostickk
brandagnostickk Junior Member • Posts: 30
stay with what you like, not a brand

Why dont you just add up the pros and cons and then choose. A "brand" is not worthy of "staying" there. Only the joy of using a certain equipment combo is, regardless of the brand tag on it.

And once you are clear on this, you will not need any decision help.

awaldram
awaldram Forum Pro • Posts: 12,721
Re: stay with what you like, not a brand

Hi Brandagostickk

Welcome to Dpreview and particularly the Pentax forums.

I'm curious on the agnostic front, We have many members with similar monickers such as anybrand or a mess of sonikax  it immediately screams to me 'body+kit,PS owner' and chip on shoulder.

I have yet to find any serious/professional photographer who is brand agnostic , This is just not possible if you have many £1000's invested in the system.

Professionals tend not to 'ram it down your face' as their brand is just the manufacturers of the tools they happen to use, But they have a vested interest in their chosen company.

So in short most member with names such as yours have one intent and that is to cause trouble in all forums, I hope this isn't true for you and if not apologize.

 awaldram's gear list:awaldram's gear list
Pentax Q Pentax K-3 Pentax Q7 Pentax K-x Pentax smc DA 40mm F2.8 Limited +15 more
Ian Stuart Forsyth
Ian Stuart Forsyth Senior Member • Posts: 2,781
Re: Please help me to stay with Pentax!

First I would have to know what you like shooting

From your site it looks as if landscape & travel play major role in your photography.

If the size of the D610 is not too large for you many find additional DR beneficial to your work, paired with some nice primes you may find they can keep the size down. the 20 F2.8, 28g F1.8 I like and if zooms are to your liking the new 18-35 is something worth looking at.

If you what fast wide angle that doesn’t break the bank you can get the tokina 16-28 F2.8 for under $800 at times but it’s not small, for the price I don’t think you can find a better lens in its performance range.

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