The Philosophy of Nikon Df

Started Jan 5, 2014 | Discussions
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Richard Murdey
Richard Murdey OP Senior Member • Posts: 2,113
Re: The Philosophy of Nikon Df
1

inasir1971 wrote:

You mean this:

It's an 'Owner's Bible' (says so right there) not some special issue, and your link shows it as a book on sale through Amazon for 2100 Yen.

It's in magazine format being sold on the magazine rack in bookstores, next to the regular issue of Asahi Camera magazine. And I've browsed through it. Trust me on this one: it's not an owner's manual, "owner's bible" is misleading: the best way I can think of describing the contents is "commemorative program". You might buy it if you owned the Df and wanted to read feel-good trivia about what an amazing camera it is. Or daydream about the amazing photos you will one day take with it. Need help setting up custom color profiles? Prepare to be disappointed.

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Scott McMorrow Regular Member • Posts: 366
Re: Df low light AF ability should not even be a question
1

Josh152 wrote:

Those who don't care about the retro look or need/want the D4 sensor are left scratching their heads as to why anyone would pay that price for such a low spec'd camera and those who do like the design and/or D4 sensor are left trying to justify spending that amount of money on said camera. It's a perfect recipe to keep people discussing/arguing about the camera. Almost like Nikon planed it that way lol.

It's actually brilliant brand marketing.  Talk about the Df has definitely superseded the D600 oil spot debacle.  Everyone is talking about the NIKON Df.   Therefore, everyone is comparing it to the NIKON D610 and NIKON D800.  You don't like the Df, well we have two other amazing cameras for you. One at about the same price, and one that is less expensive, you choose.  Quite frankly, today's offerings from Nikon have amazing capabilities.  Tomorrow they introduce the NIKON D3300, a 24 MP entry level DSLR without an AA-filter, and announce the next in the NIKON D4 line.

Josh152 Senior Member • Posts: 1,896
Re: Df low light AF ability should not even be a question

Scott McMorrow wrote:

Josh152 wrote:

Those who don't care about the retro look or need/want the D4 sensor are left scratching their heads as to why anyone would pay that price for such a low spec'd camera and those who do like the design and/or D4 sensor are left trying to justify spending that amount of money on said camera. It's a perfect recipe to keep people discussing/arguing about the camera. Almost like Nikon planed it that way lol.

It's actually brilliant brand marketing. Talk about the Df has definitely superseded the D600 oil spot debacle. Everyone is talking about the NIKON Df. Therefore, everyone is comparing it to the NIKON D610 and NIKON D800. You don't like the Df, well we have two other amazing cameras for you. One at about the same price, and one that is less expensive, you choose. Quite frankly, today's offerings from Nikon have amazing capabilities. Tomorrow they introduce the NIKON D3300, a 24 MP entry level DSLR without an AA-filter, and announce the next in the NIKON D4 line.

Very true.

Matt Senior Member • Posts: 2,387
Re: You are so wrong!

philharris wrote:

Matt wrote:

you clearly fail to see that just by leaving out modern electronics and controls you will be able to take much better photos!

Your landscape photos suck because you had to set the shutter speed with a little plastic wheel?

Fear no more! On the Df you can set the aperture with a large metal wheel on top of the camera and your pics will be stunning!

Your long exposures leave something to be desired and are not creative?

Worry not! By using a mechanical remote shutter wire that your grandpa used, you can now also attain the photographic perfection that a wireless remote had denied you for so many years!

-- hide signature --

Canon EOS 400D
Sigma 24-70 HF
Canon 50 f1.8

What is so wrong with having a choice? I can do either with the Df, sometimes I like to use the large metal wheel, others I like to use the little plastic wheel.

There is also something tactile about an old cable release that's rather nice to use, I know it doesn't appeal to many but it does to me, if that's ok with you of course.

There is also the chance for jerking on the camera with a cable release.

I am all up for switches and wheels (prefer Nikon over Canon in that regards) but if you take useful features away just to look retro then I find that retarded

-- hide signature --

Canon EOS 400D
Sigma 24-70 HF
Canon 50 f1.8

SonyForNow
SonyForNow Regular Member • Posts: 358
Re: around 25-30 years ago...TV was great, beer tasted better?

Simon Garrett wrote:

...

-- hide signature --

Simon

Yeah, just what I don't want...Michelob and Knight Rider.

I'll take a Grey Goose washed down with Blue Moon and watch Mad Men followed by Breaking Bad.

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webrunner5 Senior Member • Posts: 1,156
Re: around 25-30 years ago...TV was great, beer tasted better?
2

All this silly "it's too heavy" crap is just crazy. The M 4/3 and DF are all geared to 13 year old Japanese girls. Lets not sugarcoat it.

Go down to the gym and work out. Seems like a lot of girlymen on here to me.

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nunatak Senior Member • Posts: 2,736
Re: D is for Digital, F is for film.

Robin Casady wrote:

Not going to happen. Nikon has patents for a lot of things that wont ever see the light of day. In the 90's it might have made sense. Now, not so much.

-- hide signature --

Robin Casady

your entitled to your opinions, however your "engineering nightmare" was a strawman.

a D-filmback would be an innovative way to get film shooters back into buying new Nikon glass and accessories. have a little faith.

-- hide signature --

design guy

sgoldswo
sgoldswo Senior Member • Posts: 5,612
Re: The Brilliancy of the Nikon Df
3

eNo wrote:

The keenest observation about the Df is how aptly it fulfills the poser mentality that infuses forums like this one and all but obscures clear-eyed considerations about what photography is about.

As you define it. Could it just be that some people enjoy taking pictures with equipment that's fun to use (for them) and gives great results? When I read your post I'm reminded of this sketch from Blackadder :

Lady Whiteadder: Chairs! You have chairs in your House?

Blackadder: Yes, well...

[she slaps him twice]

Lady Whiteadder: Wicked Child! Chairs are the work of Belezabub! At our house Nathaneal sits on a spike!

Blackadder: And yourself?

Lady Whiteadder: I sit on Nathaneal! Two spikes would be an extravagance.

In that sense, Nikon is tapping into a real market, namely that which is sustained by utter boredom-driven search for the next latest-and-greatest gadget.

Tip: gadgets don't capture life. Hearts and vision do.
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://imagesbyeduardo.com/
Los Angeles wedding photography that seeks the heart and spirit in each image

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Dennis Watts Regular Member • Posts: 110
Re: The Philosophy of Nikon Df
2

your shot is of a "very contrasty" setting and even my old D1 would have been fine in this situation.

What has me and may others upset is we where hoping for a lot more. I'm not saying it's a bad camera it is just not a good value. its very good but very old tech, and there is NO reason it should not have the D800 AF, and shoot 7-8 FPS. It has the chip and processor to do this but Nikon chose to increase their profit margin.

I am just whining because i'm looking for a good back up and I use manual focus lenses. I would buy the DF and put up with the poor focus screen and all of the other items mentioned but not at this price, I'll get a second D800E.

I feel like Nikon is taking advantage and that is what is most disappointing. look at the sales numbers and you'll see that there are a lot of people like me.

http://petapixel.com/2013/11/08/nikon-cuts-sales-forecast-yet-dslr-sales-stall-df-preorders-come-subpar/

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RichRMA Senior Member • Posts: 4,073
Which of two situations is worse?
3

Second-guessing Nikon's marketing, or second-guessing it because you'd really LIKE a Df but can't "justify" spending $2700 on it?

brightcolours Forum Pro • Posts: 13,115
Re: The Philosophy of Nikon Df

khaledgawdat wrote:

I love and enjoy my df camera and i am using my old nikon lenses again with it.

I am using my old Nikkor lenses again too... ┬áJust with less contrived controls and without battery door falling off.

I do not need some techno freak with a biased opinion to help me make a choice. If you like it buy it, if you don't forget it.
--
K.Gawdat

sandy b
sandy b Veteran Member • Posts: 8,193
Poor focus Screen.
1

According to some it is a bit better. Thom comes to mind. Or Bjorn. But even if its not, then its the same as the one in the 3DX, D4, D3s, D800 etc. I have never heard people whining about how horrible they focus manually.

The Nikon D3x was probably overpriced by more than the total cost of the Df in my mind. Why did Nikon price it their? Because they wanted too, and the sales figures were what they were. Yet people bought it, who perceived it to be what they needed, and for the most part, people didn't really seem to mind. should be the same with the Df, considered over priced by some, and loved by others.

By the way, the D800 only does 4.5 fps. Shouldn't have Nikon made it 7 or 8 fps? For over three thousand dollars? And according to some, it doesn't AF in sports shooting as well as the D4. They have the technology on a chip to do that. Shouldn't all DSLR's do 8 fps? No, of course not. Product differentiation.

And mostly, with two dials, you can run the Df just like any other Nikon if you choose. Its called Fusion, not retro.

Nikon knew this camera would have limited market. That's how they made it. But they knew enough people like Bjorn or Thom, and some of the heavy hitters around here would buy it. And they are.

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sandy b
sandy b Veteran Member • Posts: 8,193
You don't have to use the manual controls.

For the most part with two control wheels, you can use it like any other Nikon.

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sandy b
sandy b Veteran Member • Posts: 8,193
Re: The Philosophy of Nikon Df
2

Thank god we have pros like you show up to tell us poor amateurs what to think. What ever you are, its rude.

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sandy b
sandy b Veteran Member • Posts: 8,193
If you look through the back of the Df

You can see its not an all plastic chassis.

There is no doubt in my mind for the type of shooting Nikon thinks people will do with this camera, the build is just fine, if not up to the standards of the D800 etc.

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brightcolours Forum Pro • Posts: 13,115
Re: You don't have to use the manual controls.
2

sandy b wrote:

For the most part with two control wheels, you can use it like any other Nikon.

But the only point of the camera is the old dials. Not high resolution (D800), not sports performance (D4), not affordability (D610).

enkindler
enkindler Regular Member • Posts: 167
Re: You don't have to use the manual controls.

brightcolours wrote:

sandy b wrote:

For the most part with two control wheels, you can use it like any other Nikon.

But the only point of the camera is the old dials. Not high resolution (D800), not sports performance (D4), not affordability (D610).

You forgot the reason many of the sacrifices were made (Battery size, card slot, focus system). It is the lightest and smallest full-frame DSLR on the market.

You may not see the value in that but others do.

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brightcolours Forum Pro • Posts: 13,115
Re: You don't have to use the manual controls.
2

enkindler wrote:

brightcolours wrote:

sandy b wrote:

For the most part with two control wheels, you can use it like any other Nikon.

But the only point of the camera is the old dials. Not high resolution (D800), not sports performance (D4), not affordability (D610).

You forgot the reason many of the sacrifices were made (Battery size, card slot, focus system). It is the lightest and smallest full-frame DSLR on the market.

It is just about the same size and weight as the Canon EOS 6D (really).

http://camerasize.com/compare/#495,380

Not sure what is so special about that? They should have made the Df a lot smaller to have a value size wise, the same size as the FM's and Nikkormats. Then it woud be a plus. And a control philosophy which is consistent and sensible...

I have nothing against Nikon trying something different, but they should have done it well. I do like my pre-Ai Nikkors on my Nikkormat FTn and my 6D.

You may not see the value in that but others do.

enkindler
enkindler Regular Member • Posts: 167
Re: You don't have to use the manual controls.
2

brightcolours wrote:

enkindler wrote:

brightcolours wrote:

sandy b wrote:

For the most part with two control wheels, you can use it like any other Nikon.

But the only point of the camera is the old dials. Not high resolution (D800), not sports performance (D4), not affordability (D610).

You forgot the reason many of the sacrifices were made (Battery size, card slot, focus system). It is the lightest and smallest full-frame DSLR on the market.

It is just about the same size and weight as the Canon EOS 6D (really).

http://camerasize.com/compare/#495,380

Not sure what is so special about that? They should have made the Df a lot smaller to have a value size wise, the same size as the FM's and Nikkormats. Then it woud be a plus. And a control philosophy which is consistent and sensible...

I have nothing against Nikon trying something different, but they should have done it well. I do like my pre-Ai Nikkors on my Nikkormat FTn and my 6D.

You may not see the value in that but others do.

A DSLR will never be the size of a 35mm film body, a sensor, heat spreader and LCD will always be thicker than a pressure plate. The only way to be thinner is to dump the F mount.

The 6D only has an 11 point AF system, shoots less FPS, does not have 100% frame coverage and is useless to those with an investment in Nikon glass. Why does it get a pass on your "incrementally worse in some arbitrarily picked metrics" The "only point" of the Df was not the dials, and you brushed off evidence that was only a part of their design decisions.

The DF has a higher frame rate and is lighter than the D800, has better high ISO than the D800 and D610. It is lighter and cheaper and quieter than the D4. And to top that off it is the smallest and lightest full frame DSLR on the market and the smallest and lightest Nikon by a large measure.

The Df's controls are far more usable than the Canon design decisions have ever produced.

But really all modern cameras are great... Improvements are slight between almost all models for most photos. I found a use for the Df and I am very happy with it. But cameras are just tools, nothing more.

That said size and weight were apparently the main driver on this camera. The D4/D800 AF would have made it taller, as for the price it is cheaper than the D700 was adjusted for inflation.

That said I have no real desire to convince people it is an awesome camera so have the last word while I go out and enjoy mine.

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Robin Casady Forum Pro • Posts: 12,898
Re: D is for Digital, F is for film.
3

nunatak wrote:

Robin Casady wrote:

Not going to happen. Nikon has patents for a lot of things that wont ever see the light of day. In the 90's it might have made sense. Now, not so much.

-- hide signature --

Robin Casady

your entitled to your opinions, however your "engineering nightmare" was a strawman.

a D-filmback would be an innovative way to get film shooters back into buying new Nikon glass and accessories. have a little faith.

-- hide signature --

design guy

That is like designing a car to appeal to covered wagon drivers. Film shooters are not a big enough demographic to be worth the effort.

-- hide signature --

Robin Casady
http://www.robincasady.com/Photo/index.html
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts."
— Bertrand Russell

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