The best DX camera in the world

Started Nov 28, 2013 | Discussions
Joe Porto Senior Member • Posts: 1,064
Sold my D800...keeping my D7000
2

I agree completely. FF just wasn't for me, especially with the cost of a Nikon's wide angles. And when I shoot my birds, I crop anyway.

I had a D800 and D7000, and wanted a wide angle lens. I was going to purchase the 16-35mm VR, but was having a hard time with the price. So I decided to try the 10-24mm DX, and use it on the D7000. I couldn't be happier. 15-36mm equivalent for just over $700. At that point, I came to the conclusion that my D800, and FF was unnecessary for my needs. The majority of my shooting is of small critters, so I'm always cropping anyway, and now I have true wide angle in DX format. I just need a top of the line DX camera.

I'll pass on the D7100. I'm going to hold on to the D7000 and wait it out. There IS a market for the D400. 24MP in a D800 type body with its big viewfinder (The D2 series had the big viewfinder, so it can be done). 51 point AF, usable ISO 6400, 8FPS and a BIG buffer. I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

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Graham Sp Contributing Member • Posts: 631
Re: The best DX camera in the world

I actually like the D600 focus area that covers a smaller part of the area than D7000 (I own both) for the kind of photos I take .

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toucan
toucan Regular Member • Posts: 286
changing brands is too costly

Think most people stick with what they have because it is too costly to chop and change. I gave up on Sony A77 and 70-400 combo did not cut it for bird photos (sharp enough for all other types of photography though) and their 500 f4 lens costing around 40% more than its worth. Then I switched to Nikon, bought the D7100 and 500 f4 lens (which is fabulous) but now getting held back by limitations of fps, ISO and buffer. Very frustrating.

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toucan

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WalterF Regular Member • Posts: 217
Re: The best DX camera in the world

Nikon Convert wrote:

When I moved to Nikon from Canon, I did so because of the magnificent D300, which was way ahead of the competition at the time.

Did you buy the Canon 7D MKII?
When did Canon release it?

Count Biscotti
Count Biscotti Regular Member • Posts: 152
Re: The best DX camera in the world
4

It seems to me that Nikon has already built the best DX camera in the world....and so has everybody else. The test reports you see here at dpreview show only minor differences in cameras regardless of specification or manufacturer.

Further, (if you are old enough) look back at your 35mm transparencies, and try applying the same level of critique to them. With grain and all, it is actually startling how bad those slides are in comparison!

Then compare the price/performance of a film based Nikon back then to the price/performance today compared to your take home pay. The D5200 is a steal, and comes with a zoom lens that the film cameras didn't even consider.

We have never had it so good.

Now everybody has bought one, each with probably twice the number of megapixels they really need, the manufacturers are trying to eke out a cash flow with incremental changes.

Reminds me of the CD player market of a couple of decades ago. Every manufacturer had a product line ranging to the $1000s of dollars for the right D/A converter. Now, you can't find them anymore, and when you do there is no product differentiation

What they need is something new to sell, but no one apart from Sony is taking a real stab at changing the market in the way that Sony itself did with the Walkman those many years ago...

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Dave Cruz Contributing Member • Posts: 927
Re: The best DX camera in the world
1

Eurodynamica wrote:

It seems to me that Nikon has already built the best DX camera in the world....and so has everybody else. The test reports you see here at dpreview show only minor differences in cameras regardless of specification or manufacturer.

Further, (if you are old enough) look back at your 35mm transparencies, and try applying the same level of critique to them. With grain and all, it is actually startling how bad those slides are in comparison!

Then compare the price/performance of a film based Nikon back then to the price/performance today compared to your take home pay. The D5200 is a steal, and comes with a zoom lens that the film cameras didn't even consider.

We have never had it so good.

Now everybody has bought one, each with probably twice the number of megapixels they really need, the manufacturers are trying to eke out a cash flow with incremental changes.

Reminds me of the CD player market of a couple of decades ago. Every manufacturer had a product line ranging to the $1000s of dollars for the right D/A converter. Now, you can't find them anymore, and when you do there is no product differentiation

What they need is something new to sell, but no one apart from Sony is taking a real stab at changing the market in the way that Sony itself did with the Walkman those many years ago...

I think you're right. From the D300 on, DSLRs have been good enough to make a lot of people realise they don't really 'need' further upgrades if the goal is simply to take great photographs.

The novelty of ever-evolving technology was always the marketing 'carrot', but it's effectiveness has been dissipating, thus the buying curve flattening out.

Makes one wonder what the real-world cost of designing a D300 would be today, i.e. without the competitive environment in which it evolved.

Not to mention a D400, or D500

DC

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(unknown member) Veteran Member • Posts: 4,624
Re: The best DX camera in the world

Eurodynamica wrote:

It seems to me that Nikon has already built the best DX camera in the world....and so has everybody else. The test reports you see here at dpreview show only minor differences in cameras regardless of specification or manufacturer.

Further, (if you are old enough) look back at your 35mm transparencies, and try applying the same level of critique to them. With grain and all, it is actually startling how bad those slides are in comparison!

Then compare the price/performance of a film based Nikon back then to the price/performance today compared to your take home pay. The D5200 is a steal, and comes with a zoom lens that the film cameras didn't even consider.

We have never had it so good.

Now everybody has bought one, each with probably twice the number of megapixels they really need, the manufacturers are trying to eke out a cash flow with incremental changes.

Reminds me of the CD player market of a couple of decades ago. Every manufacturer had a product line ranging to the $1000s of dollars for the right D/A converter. Now, you can't find them anymore, and when you do there is no product differentiation

What they need is something new to sell, but no one apart from Sony is taking a real stab at changing the market in the way that Sony itself did with the Walkman those many years ago...

Your comparison is valid. Only today I was thinking on some photos from the weekend and the quality is 'comparable' in aesthetic quality to ASA 100 film, great and realistic colors and clean detail.

Thing is, I have taken two years  (after starting back photography after many moons, to get here, getting color etc where I want it after my worklflow.

Thus, I have only now 'maximised' my D300 potential just recently.

But, things move along as does technology and if a camera can shoot clean ISO 3200, why should those who use Nikon not expect them to release one (like the K3).

That said, I shot and processed (not printed yet) over 250 photos at a sporting event on Saturday, which would have cost very much to process in the film says.

I appreciate digital.

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Amateur photographer. Enjoy.....believe in yourself..

Richard Murdey
Richard Murdey Senior Member • Posts: 2,879
Re: The best DX camera in the world

Nikon Convert wrote:

The D7100 is a great camera, but the extremely poor buffer is a real drawback and the smaller body size is a turn off for many.

I am absolutely certain that Nikon can no longer overlook the fact that the best DX DSLR in the world would be the most cost effective, most profit bearing and most eagerly anticipated product that they could possibly bring to the market.

Let us fantasy-design this hypothetical D400:

It looks like a D300. It has perhaps 18 or 24 megapixels, 6-7 fps, and, perhaps most importantly, a class-leading frame buffer. Dual SD slots. The usual video and liveview suspects. And while we are at it, built-in wifi and GPS.

By any credible analysis, the retail price of such a body would be $1999 US.

I'm sure some people would be interested. We can argue about whether those numbers would be bigger or smaller than the market for the Df, but I think we can all agree that the numbers would be small relative to the D600, 6D, a7. The value proposition is simply not there. I can imagine the reviews already...

It makes more sense for Nikon to come out with a D7300 with improved buffer and maybe GPS-wifi. Features which don't add much to the manufacturing costs, but would satisfy most of the remaining D400 holdouts.

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jfriend00 Forum Pro • Posts: 12,392
Re: The best DX camera in the world
2

Richard Murdey wrote:

Nikon Convert wrote:

The D7100 is a great camera, but the extremely poor buffer is a real drawback and the smaller body size is a turn off for many.

I am absolutely certain that Nikon can no longer overlook the fact that the best DX DSLR in the world would be the most cost effective, most profit bearing and most eagerly anticipated product that they could possibly bring to the market.

Let us fantasy-design this hypothetical D400:

It looks like a D300. It has perhaps 18 or 24 megapixels, 6-7 fps, and, perhaps most importantly, a class-leading frame buffer. Dual SD slots. The usual video and liveview suspects. And while we are at it, built-in wifi and GPS.

By any credible analysis, the retail price of such a body would be $1999 US.

I'm sure some people would be interested. We can argue about whether those numbers would be bigger or smaller than the market for the Df, but I think we can all agree that the numbers would be small relative to the D600, 6D, a7. The value proposition is simply not there. I can imagine the reviews already...

It makes more sense for Nikon to come out with a D7300 with improved buffer and maybe GPS-wifi. Features which don't add much to the manufacturing costs, but would satisfy most of the remaining D400 holdouts.

Not sure how you get the value proposition being lower than the D600.  Other than the high ISO performance or narrow DOF, it would have better specs than the D600 in almost every other way (build, controls, fps, buffer, etc...).  In many ways, that's much better value than the D600.  That's what DX is for - more bang for the buck for less money.  Look at the D7100 vs. D610.   You get basically the same body and features with better AF in the D7100 for $800 less. DX is where the value is.  You pay more for less with FX except for the larger sensor.

So, if you've determined that you don't need an FX sensor, then the D400 would be a way better value than the D600 - offering you a bunch of capabilities the D600 doesn't have (better AF, faster fps, larger buffer, high pixel density, etc...).

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n057 Veteran Member • Posts: 7,817
Re: The best DX camera in the world
2

Richard Murdey wrote:

Nikon Convert wrote:

The D7100 is a great camera, but the extremely poor buffer is a real drawback and the smaller body size is a turn off for many.

I am absolutely certain that Nikon can no longer overlook the fact that the best DX DSLR in the world would be the most cost effective, most profit bearing and most eagerly anticipated product that they could possibly bring to the market.

Let us fantasy-design this hypothetical D400:

It looks like a D300. It has perhaps 18 or 24 megapixels, 6-7 fps, and, perhaps most importantly, a class-leading frame buffer. Dual SD slots. The usual video and liveview suspects. And while we are at it, built-in wifi and GPS.

By any credible analysis, the retail price of such a body would be $1999 US.

I'm sure some people would be interested. We can argue about whether those numbers would be bigger or smaller than the market for the Df, but I think we can all agree that the numbers would be small relative to the D600, 6D, a7. The value proposition is simply not there. I can imagine the reviews already...

It makes more sense for Nikon to come out with a D7300 with improved buffer and maybe GPS-wifi. Features which don't add much to the manufacturing costs, but would satisfy most of the remaining D400 holdouts.

I am not sure why you come to that conclusion. We are still talking about a D300 successor, right? Why would it have to be an FX camera? Why would an FX camera sell more than the eventual top of the line DX?

I for one could not really care less for GPS or SD cards.

JC
Some cameras, some lenses, some computers

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(unknown member) Veteran Member • Posts: 4,624
Re: The best DX camera in the world
1

jfriend00 wrote:

Richard Murdey wrote:

Nikon Convert wrote:

The D7100 is a great camera, but the extremely poor buffer is a real drawback and the smaller body size is a turn off for many.

I am absolutely certain that Nikon can no longer overlook the fact that the best DX DSLR in the world would be the most cost effective, most profit bearing and most eagerly anticipated product that they could possibly bring to the market.

Let us fantasy-design this hypothetical D400:

It looks like a D300. It has perhaps 18 or 24 megapixels, 6-7 fps, and, perhaps most importantly, a class-leading frame buffer. Dual SD slots. The usual video and liveview suspects. And while we are at it, built-in wifi and GPS.

By any credible analysis, the retail price of such a body would be $1999 US.

I'm sure some people would be interested. We can argue about whether those numbers would be bigger or smaller than the market for the Df, but I think we can all agree that the numbers would be small relative to the D600, 6D, a7. The value proposition is simply not there. I can imagine the reviews already...

It makes more sense for Nikon to come out with a D7300 with improved buffer and maybe GPS-wifi. Features which don't add much to the manufacturing costs, but would satisfy most of the remaining D400 holdouts.

Not sure how you get the value proposition being lower than the D600. Other than the high ISO performance or narrow DOF, it would have better specs than the D600 in almost every other way (build, controls, fps, buffer, etc...). In many ways, that's much better value than the D600. That's what DX is for - more bang for the buck for less money. Look at the D7100 vs. D610. You get basically the same body and features with better AF in the D7100 for $800 less. DX is where the value is. You pay more for less with FX except for the larger sensor.

So, if you've determined that you don't need an FX sensor, then the D400 would be a way better value than the D600 - offering you a bunch of capabilities the D600 doesn't have (better AF, faster fps, larger buffer, high pixel density, etc...).

I would agree with that. The three 'actual imaging effect' things the 'D400' would have over say the D610 are  -pixel density, fps, focusing speed and accuracy.

The non 'imaging' advantages but advantages nonetheless are : build quality and component quality (better shutter/ mirror mechanisms, better processors, weather sealing, reliability due to the better quality, possibly better viewfinder, certainly at the DX imaging.

The ONE advantage of the D610 would be high ISO shooting. Some may claim depth of field variability/ play, but how many really usually shoot paper thing DOF , possible anyway with the right lens even on DX.

Maybe some dynamic range gain yes, but the K3/ D7100 seem to have that covered i.e. latest sensor.

Thus, if the 'D400' can shoot at ISO 3200 comfortably, it will be a winner. The D7100 /K3 may not be able to compete with the D610 there, but they are pretty good, judging from the images I have seen on this site.

But yes, if one is solely after high ISO shooting, a FF still has the advantage, but that is the only advantage.

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gustabod Senior Member • Posts: 1,469
Re: The best DX camera in the world
1

If you consider a K3, the Pentax 60-250 F4 telezoom is not bad, and you can get a good one (used) for under $1K.

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gustavo
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(unknown member) Veteran Member • Posts: 4,624
Re: The best DX camera in the world Pentax K3, stick a D444 label and F mount

Richard Murdey wrote:

Nikon Convert wrote:

The D7100 is a great camera, but the extremely poor buffer is a real drawback and the smaller body size is a turn off for many.

I am absolutely certain that Nikon can no longer overlook the fact that the best DX DSLR in the world would be the most cost effective, most profit bearing and most eagerly anticipated product that they could possibly bring to the market.

Let us fantasy-design this hypothetical D400:

It looks like a D300. It has perhaps 18 or 24 megapixels, 6-7 fps, and, perhaps most importantly, a class-leading frame buffer. Dual SD slots. The usual video and liveview suspects. And while we are at it, built-in wifi and GPS.

By any credible analysis, the retail price of such a body would be $1999 US.

I'm sure some people would be interested. We can argue about whether those numbers would be bigger or smaller than the market for the Df, but I think we can all agree that the numbers would be small relative to the D600, 6D, a7. The value proposition is simply not there. I can imagine the reviews already...

It makes more sense for Nikon to come out with a D7300 with improved buffer and maybe GPS-wifi. Features which don't add much to the manufacturing costs, but would satisfy most of the remaining D400 holdouts.

Sounds much like the Pentax K-3 (not sure about wifi and video though).

Pentax has done it for USD 1,300.

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Amateur photographer. Enjoy.....believe in yourself..

jfriend00 Forum Pro • Posts: 12,392
Re: The best DX camera in the world Pentax K3, stick a D444 label and F mount

Bajerunner wrote:

Richard Murdey wrote:

Nikon Convert wrote:

The D7100 is a great camera, but the extremely poor buffer is a real drawback and the smaller body size is a turn off for many.

I am absolutely certain that Nikon can no longer overlook the fact that the best DX DSLR in the world would be the most cost effective, most profit bearing and most eagerly anticipated product that they could possibly bring to the market.

Let us fantasy-design this hypothetical D400:

It looks like a D300. It has perhaps 18 or 24 megapixels, 6-7 fps, and, perhaps most importantly, a class-leading frame buffer. Dual SD slots. The usual video and liveview suspects. And while we are at it, built-in wifi and GPS.

By any credible analysis, the retail price of such a body would be $1999 US.

I'm sure some people would be interested. We can argue about whether those numbers would be bigger or smaller than the market for the Df, but I think we can all agree that the numbers would be small relative to the D600, 6D, a7. The value proposition is simply not there. I can imagine the reviews already...

It makes more sense for Nikon to come out with a D7300 with improved buffer and maybe GPS-wifi. Features which don't add much to the manufacturing costs, but would satisfy most of the remaining D400 holdouts.

Sounds much like the Pentax K-3 (not sure about wifi and video though).

Pentax has done it for USD 1,300.

I'd say it depends upon whether Nikon wants to match the K3 or blow it away.  A D7200 could probably match the K3 in most ways and perhaps exceed it in a few for about the same price.  A D400 could establish a new unequivocal "king of the hill" in APS-C (at a higher price point).   So, it depends entirely upon what strategy Nikon wants to deploy and probably what their revenue/profit estimates are for a separate D400 spot in the product line.  They obviously haven't been in a hurry to put a D400 into the product line so I'd say it's pretty hard to say what they are thinking in that regard.

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28to70 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,040
Re: The best DX camera in the world

Nikon Convert wrote:

Chaps,

I find my myself getting more and more frustrated with the good people at Nikon. The disasterous financial results of this week illustrate that they are perhaps not bringing out the products that people want to buy and there is a good reason for this. I am sick to the back teeth of mirrorless this and retro that - what is the point? Limited appeal and expensive development costs - not a great idea for a company needing some growth. I do have a clue for the Nikon R&D division though - bring us the best DX format DSLR in the world!

When I moved to Nikon from Canon, I did so because of the magnificent D300, which was way ahead of the competition at the time. Not all photographers desire full frame and DX much better suits their type of photography. The D7100 is a great camera, but the extremely poor buffer is a real drawback and the smaller body size is a turn off for many.

I am absolutely certain that Nikon can no longer overlook the fact that the best DX DSLR in the world would be the most cost effective, most profit bearing and most eagerly anticipated product that they could possibly bring to the market. In short, stop messing aroung and get the D400 out there and make some profit!! In view of the financial news earlier this week, you can no longer afford to delay this model any further.

Yours frustratedly

Nikon Convert

Yes there will be a D400 FX.  I have already told Nikon that the price should be $1995.00.

I also told them to have 2 CF card slots and 16 megapixels.

Patco Forum Pro • Posts: 13,819
Re: The best DX camera in the world

28to70 wrote:

Yes there will be a D400 FX. I have already told Nikon that the price should be $1995.00.

I also told them to have 2 CF card slots and 16 megapixels.

Sorry, but I've already told Nikon the FX D400 will be 56MP and have 2 SD slots. And mirrorless.

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Patco
A photograph is more than a bunch of pixels

28to70 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,040
Re: The best DX camera in the world

Patco wrote:

28to70 wrote:

Yes there will be a D400 FX. I have already told Nikon that the price should be $1995.00.

I also told them to have 2 CF card slots and 16 megapixels.

Sorry, but I've already told Nikon the FX D400 will be 56MP and have 2 SD slots. And mirrorless.

56 MP, now we are getting greedy!  I have 3 Nikons at 6, 10 and 12 Megapixels, and I'm still surprised at the D70's 30X40's I have had made.  56 megapixels will clog my I5 2500 computer with too much cholesterol. I actually prefer the heftiness of CF cards.

Patco Forum Pro • Posts: 13,819
Re: The best DX camera in the world

28to70 wrote:

Patco wrote:

28to70 wrote:

Yes there will be a D400 FX. I have already told Nikon that the price should be $1995.00.

I also told them to have 2 CF card slots and 16 megapixels.

Sorry, but I've already told Nikon the FX D400 will be 56MP and have 2 SD slots. And mirrorless.

56 MP, now we are getting greedy! I have 3 Nikons at 6, 10 and 12 Megapixels, and I'm still surprised at the D70's 30X40's I have had made. 56 megapixels will clog my I5 2500 computer with too much cholesterol. I actually prefer the heftiness of CF cards.

Didn't say I wanted 56MP - I started with Nikon with the 6MP D70 (which I used for many of my favourite pics), then bought (and still have) the 10MP D80.  I also have the higher MP P6000, at 13.5MP, but that doesn't really count.

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Patco
A photograph is more than a bunch of pixels

n057 Veteran Member • Posts: 7,817
Re: The best DX camera in the world

Patco wrote:

28to70 wrote:

Yes there will be a D400 FX. I have already told Nikon that the price should be $1995.00.

I also told them to have 2 CF card slots and 16 megapixels.

Sorry, but I've already told Nikon the FX D400 will be 56MP and have 2 SD slots. And mirrorless.

SD slots? Memory cards are so passé. Web access, no less, so images will be stored right away in "the cloud"!

JC
Some cameras, some lenses, some computers

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Frank C. Veteran Member • Posts: 6,667
Re: Shared frustration....
1

Rockwallaby wrote:

Many here share your frustration Nikon Convert.

But reality prevails. It takes money to develop a new "something special" DX. DSLR sales potential is shrinking as time passes. Some customers have already made a one way trip to FX so will not buy another DX. So to recover development costs across a smaller sales base and then add the all important profit margin that Nikon shareholders demand, the sales price of a new Nikon DX may well exceed the price that many customers are prepared to pay.

Add to this a huge decline in the once profitable point and shoot market that could prop up the DSLR development cost.

Both Nikon and Canon are in a difficult market at the moment.

up the buffer in the d7100 + 8fps + Expeed 4 + full mag body + AF-ON button... that's it!

they already have everything they need in their parts bin, now put it together already!!!

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