Anyone for separate FF & APSc DPR forums?

Started Nov 25, 2013 | Discussions
captura Forum Pro • Posts: 26,978
Re: Yes, yes and YES!

ottonis wrote:

The Cybershot forum does also comprise FF (RX1/r), 1" (RX100) and all the other small-sensor compacts all in one forum and people don't really complain.
The FF and APS-C E-mount cameras have so much more in common than the different cybershots, so it would only be consistent not to split the E-mount forum.

In an ideal world, every camera model and every lens would have their own forum, but this wohld lead to a monumental number of forums with a declining user base.
--
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The Cybershot forum consists of nothing else but Point 'n Shoots, so therefore... all the bliss 'n harmony!

The fullframe Sony's have absolutely nothing in common with the Nexie apsc's. Even the lenses, although interchangeable, are not practically applicable.

What would make more sense would be to dump the A7's and the RX1's into the same hamper.

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captura Forum Pro • Posts: 26,978
Re: Yes, Yes & YES.

"The FF and APS-C E-mount cameras have so much more in common than the different cybershots, so it would only be consistent not to split the E-mount forum."

- what do they have in common? I see nothing!

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OP 1prime Senior Member • Posts: 1,108
Re: Yes, yes and YES!...and the "big stinky pile"
1

captura wrote:

ottonis wrote:

The Cybershot forum does also comprise FF (RX1/r), 1" (RX100) and all the other small-sensor compacts all in one forum and people don't really complain.
The FF and APS-C E-mount cameras have so much more in common than the different cybershots, so it would only be consistent not to split the E-mount forum.

In an ideal world, every camera model and every lens would have their own forum, but this wohld lead to a monumental number of forums with a declining user base.
--
www.flicker.com/davidsphotoblog777

The Cybershot forum consists of nothing else but Point 'n Shoots, so therefore... all the bliss 'n harmony!

The fullframe Sony's have absolutely nothing in common with the Nexie apsc's. Even the lenses, although interchangeable, are not practically applicable.

What would make more sense would be to dump the A7's and the RX1's into the same hamper.

Thanks Steve. Now I get it!!! It's just like my better 1/2 keeps telling me. "Put them in the right hamper. No, the reds over here!" Hey, wouldn't it be great if DPR would just give us one more hamper. Or better yet, let us keep our old musty E hamper, and let them start up their own new one. When I think of it, the FFers are sort of like my son when he was a teenager. His mom would put up with things from him like just throwing all his multi-colored stinky laundry in the same pile. And that's how some of us NEXers feel. We've been reduced to post in one big stinky pile. That's a measurable fact and not merely, as some FFers here would like to portray in this thread...not simply some psychologically induced insecurity on the part of APS-Cers. Don

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1prime

OP 1prime Senior Member • Posts: 1,108
Re: bet on it - NEX is only a name

edwardaneal wrote:

1prime wrote:

Very interesting, especially your NEX explanation. In some ways it's too bad they didn't continue the NEX, but perhaps they will continue it with APSc continuations.

I would bet money there are going to be plenty of new E-mount APS-c cameras. the fact they won't put the "NEX" name on them is meaningless - all of the "NEX" cameras have always been branded "alpha" as well - these are just silly names and they don't matter, what is clear with the new A7 and A7r is that Sony is making a serious commitment to mirror less E-mount cameras and this is good for all of us because it pretty much guarantees a more complete line of higher quality lenses that will be usable regardless of the sensor size in the E-mount camera you happen to use.

NEX is nothing but a name - E-mount on the other hand is actually a physical thing, a lens mount design. Dropping the NEX name on future cameras change nothing that is important - we should just be very grateful that they didn't change the lens mount - - that would have really left us in the cold

Good points.

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1prime

navierb Regular Member • Posts: 102
Re: Anyone for separate FF & APSc DPR forums?
2

E-Mount is E-Mount, no matter which Sensor Size has

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PVCdroid
PVCdroid Veteran Member • Posts: 4,381
Re: Anyone for separate FF & APSc DPR forums?
2

blue_skies wrote:

1prime wrote:

We've just about exhausted a lively interchange between FF & APSc advocates. At risk are some recognized solid DPR contributors. That thread is almost concluding, I think, before we start throwing our cameras at each other!

So I'm throwing out an old proposal: Please DPR, separate us. Give the relatively new to A7&r, enthusiastic FFers their own forum so they can learn about their new systems. Hey, I understand how they want to preen over their A7r's treatment of eyes. "Eye" would too if I ponied up a couple of grand or more. The A7&r are great Sony developments, but they're not for everyone.

At the same time, some of us orphaned Sony NEXers want to communicate and learn more about our systems without being continually put down. We'd like our thoughts and questions to carry for a few minutes on DPR before plummeting off the page with FF posts. It's been suggested we post some pics, only to watch our lesser MPed pics plummet to the bottom for a similar cause.

So DPReview, why don't you review your decision to keep us together? I initially saw your and Sony's logic that we NEXers might, and many did, jump to the new A7&r. But at this point, I really think most of us have made our decision whether to go FF or remain with our NEX systems. I respectfully recommend we have 2 forums, one for FF and one for NEX.

Yes, I agree - FF and APS-C for Sony makes sense. But it would make for four Sony forums:

  • A-mount/APS-C (SLT)
  • E-mount/APS-C (Nex)

and

  • A-mount/FF (A99 and new A-FF cameras)
  • E-mount/FF (A7/r - possibly move RX1/R here too?)

Additionally, I vote for one more option:

move all comparison posts to a 'comparison forum'. Have an autobot pick up threads that start comparisons and move them automatically.

Thoroughly agree and it's not just NEX vs. full frame. There is a huge influx of MFT posts attacking the new A7/R on this forum. It's getting worse daily and most pre-orders haven't even been received yet. Any serious NEX discussion threads are buried quickly here. I count 10 anti A7/R pro MFT threads currently on our front page. There are no pro Sony, NEX or A7/R threads on the MFT forum. It's out of control.

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sean lancaster
sean lancaster Veteran Member • Posts: 7,360
Re: Anyone for separate FF & APSc DPR forums?

D Cox wrote:

No.

There is not enough difference between the NEX cameras and the A7(r) to justify two forums, in my opinion.

This is absolutely the case if dpreview was willing to throw the RX1/R in with all other Cybershot cameras. Much bigger difference there than here.

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120 to 35 Senior Member • Posts: 1,277
Re: bet on it - NEX is only a name

1prime wrote:

edwardaneal wrote:

1prime wrote:

Very interesting, especially your NEX explanation. In some ways it's too bad they didn't continue the NEX, but perhaps they will continue it with APSc continuations.

I would bet money there are going to be plenty of new E-mount APS-c cameras. the fact they won't put the "NEX" name on them is meaningless - all of the "NEX" cameras have always been branded "alpha" as well - these are just silly names and they don't matter, what is clear with the new A7 and A7r is that Sony is making a serious commitment to mirror less E-mount cameras and this is good for all of us because it pretty much guarantees a more complete line of higher quality lenses that will be usable regardless of the sensor size in the E-mount camera you happen to use.

NEX is nothing but a name - E-mount on the other hand is actually a physical thing, a lens mount design. Dropping the NEX name on future cameras change nothing that is important - we should just be very grateful that they didn't change the lens mount - - that would have really left us in the cold

Good points.

NEX stands for Next E-mount Experience. The name did make sense for one generation of different camera models but looks a bit dated after a few years. What do you call the next thing after the last next thing?  Future E-mount models just using the general Alpha brand with model numbers sounds more up-to-date.

captura Forum Pro • Posts: 26,978
Re: Yes, yes and YES!...and the "big stinky pile"

1prime wrote:

captura wrote:

ottonis wrote:

The Cybershot forum does also comprise FF (RX1/r), 1" (RX100) and all the other small-sensor compacts all in one forum and people don't really complain.
The FF and APS-C E-mount cameras have so much more in common than the different cybershots, so it would only be consistent not to split the E-mount forum.

In an ideal world, every camera model and every lens would have their own forum, but this wohld lead to a monumental number of forums with a declining user base.
--
www.flicker.com/davidsphotoblog777

The Cybershot forum consists of nothing else but Point 'n Shoots, so therefore... all the bliss 'n harmony!

The fullframe Sony's have absolutely nothing in common with the Nexie apsc's. Even the lenses, although interchangeable, are not practically applicable.

What would make more sense would be to dump the A7's and the RX1's into the same hamper.

Thanks Steve. Now I get it!!! It's just like my better 1/2 keeps telling me. "Put them in the right hamper. No, the reds over here!" Hey, wouldn't it be great if DPR would just give us one more hamper. Or better yet, let us keep our old musty E hamper, and let them start up their own new one. When I think of it, the FFers are sort of like my son when he was a teenager. His mom would put up with things from him like just throwing all his multi-colored stinky laundry in the same pile. And that's how some of us NEXers feel. We've been reduced to post in one big stinky pile. That's a measurable fact and not merely, as some FFers here would like to portray in this thread...not simply some psychologically induced insecurity on the part of APS-Cers. Don

You got it. And when I think about it, they have us in a really stinky mess, too! A camera series which may not exist anymore. And not knowing that makes matters even worse, for everyone3. Imagine needing to abandon one's house because of a flood and then never being allowed to visit again to see if it's still there?

And them making you a refuge in some huge temporary shelter with a lot of peop0le who you never really want to associate with, some of whom are continuously rude to you? You get the picture.

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captura Forum Pro • Posts: 26,978
Re: Anyone for separate FF & APSc DPR forums?

navierb wrote:

E-Mount is E-Mount, no matter which Sensor Size has

That's like saying we all breathe oxygen.

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captura Forum Pro • Posts: 26,978
Re: Anyone for separate FF & APSc DPR forums?

PVCdroid wrote:

blue_skies wrote:

1prime wrote:

We've just about exhausted a lively interchange between FF & APSc advocates. At risk are some recognized solid DPR contributors. That thread is almost concluding, I think, before we start throwing our cameras at each other!

So I'm throwing out an old proposal: Please DPR, separate us. Give the relatively new to A7&r, enthusiastic FFers their own forum so they can learn about their new systems. Hey, I understand how they want to preen over their A7r's treatment of eyes. "Eye" would too if I ponied up a couple of grand or more. The A7&r are great Sony developments, but they're not for everyone.

At the same time, some of us orphaned Sony NEXers want to communicate and learn more about our systems without being continually put down. We'd like our thoughts and questions to carry for a few minutes on DPR before plummeting off the page with FF posts. It's been suggested we post some pics, only to watch our lesser MPed pics plummet to the bottom for a similar cause.

So DPReview, why don't you review your decision to keep us together? I initially saw your and Sony's logic that we NEXers might, and many did, jump to the new A7&r. But at this point, I really think most of us have made our decision whether to go FF or remain with our NEX systems. I respectfully recommend we have 2 forums, one for FF and one for NEX.

Yes, I agree - FF and APS-C for Sony makes sense. But it would make for four Sony forums:

  • A-mount/APS-C (SLT)
  • E-mount/APS-C (Nex)

and

  • A-mount/FF (A99 and new A-FF cameras)
  • E-mount/FF (A7/r - possibly move RX1/R here too?)

Additionally, I vote for one more option:

move all comparison posts to a 'comparison forum'. Have an autobot pick up threads that start comparisons and move them automatically.

Thoroughly agree and it's not just NEX vs. full frame. There is a huge influx of MFT posts attacking the new A7/R on this forum. It's getting worse daily and most pre-orders haven't even been received yet. Any serious NEX discussion threads are buried quickly here. I count 10 anti A7/R pro MFT threads currently on our front page. There are no pro Sony, NEX or A7/R threads on the MFT forum. It's out of control.

The m43 forum is very admiring of the RX1. So it's strange how hateful they are of the Sony FF cameras. Not just your influx posters but within their own forum. They have "pixel envy" I guess. But they have been even more suspicious and hateful of "APS-C" which I used to think meant NEX but now I realize includes the Canikon entry-cameras. It's quite strange, but I need to emphasize that this is just a vocal minority of M43 posters.

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djp58 Regular Member • Posts: 351
Re: Yes, Yes & YES.
1

captura wrote:

- what do they have in common? I see nothing!

...hmmmmm.  Let me think for a minute here.  Oh yeah - they have E-MOUNT in common.  The ONLY thing they do not have in common is sensor size.

David

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sportyaccordy Forum Pro • Posts: 13,702
Re: Anyone for separate FF & APSc DPR forums?

I don't see the issue. In time, the A7/A7R posts will subside. Whenever there is a new release discussions shift towards that.

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captura Forum Pro • Posts: 26,978
Re: bet on it - NEX is only a name

120 to 35 wrote:

1prime wrote:

edwardaneal wrote:

1prime wrote:

Very interesting, especially your NEX explanation. In some ways it's too bad they didn't continue the NEX, but perhaps they will continue it with APSc continuations.

I would bet money there are going to be plenty of new E-mount APS-c cameras. the fact they won't put the "NEX" name on them is meaningless - all of the "NEX" cameras have always been branded "alpha" as well - these are just silly names and they don't matter, what is clear with the new A7 and A7r is that Sony is making a serious commitment to mirror less E-mount cameras and this is good for all of us because it pretty much guarantees a more complete line of higher quality lenses that will be usable regardless of the sensor size in the E-mount camera you happen to use.

NEX is nothing but a name - E-mount on the other hand is actually a physical thing, a lens mount design. Dropping the NEX name on future cameras change nothing that is important - we should just be very grateful that they didn't change the lens mount - - that would have really left us in the cold

Good points.

NEX stands for Next E-mount Experience. The name did make sense for one generation of different camera models but looks a bit dated after a few years. What do you call the next thing after the last next thing? Future E-mount models just using the general Alpha brand with model numbers sounds more up-to-date.

We all get it. Why keep repeating the same thing, over and over. But no one KNOWS if there will be APS-C rangefinders in our future, DO they?

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Annex Regular Member • Posts: 194
Re: Anyone for separate FF & APSc DPR forums?
1

captura wrote:

navierb wrote:

E-Mount is E-Mount, no matter which Sensor Size has

That's like saying we all breathe oxygen.

So, essentially true?

E-mount *is* emount and there is more shared between the FF & APS-C than that which differs. Why would it be good to split? Just so people feel better for 2-3 weeks?

Just let the furor pass and it will be fine for both camps.

We are in a ridiculously heightened state atm where both sets of users feel marginalised and are fighting for no good reason, this is purely due to the change effect. Lets things settle, stop shouting and pointing fingers and discussions/decisions will be FAR more sane.

I'm an APS-C and FF user, both in e-mount and other systems, both sony systems share vastly more than they differ despite the calls for segregation. People need to calm down and stop the histrionics, its seriously lame and is becoming a major spoiler to these forums.

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120 to 35 Senior Member • Posts: 1,277
Re: bet on it - NEX is only a name

captura wrote:

120 to 35 wrote:

NEX stands for Next E-mount Experience. The name did make sense for one generation of different camera models but looks a bit dated after a few years. What do you call the next thing after the last next thing? Future E-mount models just using the general Alpha brand with model numbers sounds more up-to-date.

We all get it. Why keep repeating the same thing, over and over. But no one KNOWS if there will be APS-C rangefinders in our future, DO they?

It is the first time I have mentioned this point about the NEX name.

BTW, you seem to think you speak for more than one person when you say "we all get it".

OP 1prime Senior Member • Posts: 1,108
Re: Yes, yes and YES!...and the "big stinky pile"
1

captura wrote:

1prime wrote:

captura wrote:

ottonis wrote:

The Cybershot forum does also comprise FF (RX1/r), 1" (RX100) and all the other small-sensor compacts all in one forum and people don't really complain.
The FF and APS-C E-mount cameras have so much more in common than the different cybershots, so it would only be consistent not to split the E-mount forum.

In an ideal world, every camera model and every lens would have their own forum, but this wohld lead to a monumental number of forums with a declining user base.
--
www.flicker.com/davidsphotoblog777

The Cybershot forum consists of nothing else but Point 'n Shoots, so therefore... all the bliss 'n harmony!

The fullframe Sony's have absolutely nothing in common with the Nexie apsc's. Even the lenses, although interchangeable, are not practically applicable.

What would make more sense would be to dump the A7's and the RX1's into the same hamper.

Thanks Steve. Now I get it!!! It's just like my better 1/2 keeps telling me. "Put them in the right hamper. No, the reds over here!" Hey, wouldn't it be great if DPR would just give us one more hamper. Or better yet, let us keep our old musty E hamper, and let them start up their own new one. When I think of it, the FFers are sort of like my son when he was a teenager. His mom would put up with things from him like just throwing all his multi-colored stinky laundry in the same pile. And that's how some of us NEXers feel. We've been reduced to post in one big stinky pile. That's a measurable fact and not merely, as some FFers here would like to portray in this thread...not simply some psychologically induced insecurity on the part of APS-Cers. Don

You got it. And when I think about it, they have us in a really stinky mess, too! A camera series which may not exist anymore. And not knowing that makes matters even worse, for everyone3. Imagine needing to abandon one's house because of a flood and then never being allowed to visit again to see if it's still there?

And them making you a refuge in some huge temporary shelter with a lot of peop0le who you never really want to associate with, some of whom are continuously rude to you? You get the picture.

Steve, Their (FF) persistence seems to require such fundamental metaphors to get our point across. But the real question is if DPR actually reads these posts? And even more significant, will they act on them?

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1prime

OP 1prime Senior Member • Posts: 1,108
Re: Yes, Yes & YES.
1

djp58 wrote:

captura wrote:

- what do they have in common? I see nothing!

...hmmmmm. Let me think for a minute here. Oh yeah - they have E-MOUNT in common. The ONLY thing they do not have in common is sensor size.

David

Come on David, we know just how E their E is and will be in the future.

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1prime

OP 1prime Senior Member • Posts: 1,108
Re: bet on it - NEX is only a name

120 to 35 wrote:

captura wrote:

120 to 35 wrote:

NEX stands for Next E-mount Experience. The name did make sense for one generation of different camera models but looks a bit dated after a few years. What do you call the next thing after the last next thing? Future E-mount models just using the general Alpha brand with model numbers sounds more up-to-date.

We all get it. Why keep repeating the same thing, over and over. But no one KNOWS if there will be APS-C rangefinders in our future, DO they?

It is the first time I have mentioned this point about the NEX name.

BTW, you seem to think you speak for more than one person when you say "we all get it".

120, I suggest you look up captura's record on DPR.  He has been a leader, a coach, a real helper to me and others, and often a spokesman for NEXers.  Yes, we all get pigeon-holed from time to time and captura is no exception, mainly because he is not afraid to say what needs to be said. He has the respect of his fellow very senior posters here. So I'd also be careful how you blithely take exception to him. Maybe some self-reflection is needed on your part 120.

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1prime

moimoi
moimoi Veteran Member • Posts: 4,713
YES!!!!!!
1

ABSOLUTELY!

It has always been my belief that Sony FF users have their own forums.

The way I would do it is rather simple:

* FF cameras: a850/a900/a99/rx1 series/a7 series
* APS-C SLR/SLT/NEX
* Cybershot

It would be much clearer, and much more organized.

Dpreview has not moved forward thus far. The Canikon forums are better to read IMO.

Cheers,

Moimoi
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Photography is about time, space, expression, and - ultimately - capturing light. This formula may sound easy, but actually capturing the "ideal" photograph is far more complex to accomplish as our own perceptions and responses vary according to each individual. Photography is inherently driven by human subjectivity, but the general feeling is that a superb photograph is widely appreciated, as it commonly depicts a striking and universal concept. I believe this process should be sought by many of us, who deeply enjoy capturing and sharing photographs that embrace life and depict what we are.

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