Anyone for separate FF & APSc DPR forums?

Started Nov 25, 2013 | Discussions
Floydsflock Forum Member • Posts: 87
Yes, Please...
1

...separate the forums.

If ever I should choose to go FF I'd know where to go for information, but as it is now I barely see any NEX related talk going on, and I don't care to read about a system that I won't be carrying now.

Dovetailing off of Henry's idea for auto bot regulation, is there any way to set these up to discriminate between mean spirited Trolls, and of those with intellectual honesty with the integrity to not come to merely tout their superiority?  I am sick to death of the m43 'gang', even when I am over on 'their' forums, as they are extremely offensive in the tone, demeanor, and Attitude that they so often display.  As it is now I feel that so many have migrated over to the Sony arena as agitators and to 'instruct us' of the superiority of m43.  Sigh...

Rob

nzmacro
nzmacro Forum Pro • Posts: 15,917
APS-C

1prime wrote:

areichow wrote:

No. Still no.

I think it would clarify things some if posters would indicate which system, FF or NEX, that they intend to or now shoot with.

And it will be APS-C for quite awhile yet. The only issue we have in here at the moment is one person I know very well from other forums here at DPR and I know how disruptive they are in forums. That won't last long at all. Heavens forbid if another one I know of similar gets their hands on an A series.

All the best and I'm for leaving it as it is as well. The A series is darn interesting in the way Sony is headed.

Danny.

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djp58 Regular Member • Posts: 351
Re: Anyone for separate FF & APSc DPR forums?

Totally agree - what about those of us who plan on keeping both FF and APSC in E-mount?  I would prefer to have all of my E-mount issues discussed in one forum.  Since purchasing my first NEX 3 years ago (NEX 3), I've learned so much from the many solid contributors on this forum, many of whom will probably not be moving to FF.

David

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OP 1prime Senior Member • Posts: 1,108
Re: it will always happen

edwardaneal wrote:

1prime wrote:

edwardaneal wrote:

1prime wrote:

edwardaneal wrote:

I want all e-mount cameras to be in a single forum - I am selfish and I dont want to have to be surfing between two different forums when I am curious about some e-mount lens that works on both full frame and APS-c cameras

personally I think the commonality of the lenses the cameras use is more important than the sensor size

Well, it seems that lens commonality is a temporary issue until Sony sees fit to produce more specific lenses for their new FF Alphas. I assume you are aware of that. And most of the E lens info has already been posted. As well as any two way working E lens will assuredly be posted in a FF forum. If you need to periodically surf, it shouldn't be that troublesome for you to go to the APSc forum for that info. At least you'd be looking for something specific.

If you consider your statement from our perspective, instead of specific "surfing" we are bombarded every day with FF posts that override and often attack our point of APSc view. Most of us NEXers just want to survive in our old thread. Do some surfing here for yourself, and you'll readily find what I'm referring to. Enjoy your new FF.

just to make it clear to you - I shoot and NEX-7 with a Sigma 30mm f/2.8 and an NEX-5 with an 18-55

I have no intention of buying a new camera until my NEX-7 dies and even thin it will most likely not be FF

as a side note - what to you mean "consider your statement from our perspective" I have been on this forum far longer than you and I have most likely been shooting with APS-c sensor cameras far longer than you

You have vastly more photographic experience than me, and I tried earlier to acknowledge that. While I respect your position here, I disagree in that this forum has just tilted too far to one side. At least that's my view. I look forward to reading your NEX insights. Thanks for replying. Don

the forum has tilted, but it hasn't tilted because full frame conflicts with APS, it has tilted because there are new cameras and everyone always wants to talk about whats new.

when the next aps-c camera comes out to finally replace the NEX-7 this place will be buried in posts about it.

but like I said the e-mount is one thing that is common about all of these cameras - I really want to hear what people think of the new 35mm f/2.8 zeiss and the 50mm f/1.8 zeiss - sure these are full frame lenses, but they are also e-mount and as such they will work on my NEX-7 in fact because they are full frame they might be even better than my current 30mm lens in the corners just because they cover a larger image circle.

I really want to see posts on these lenses all be in one place

now if they do decide to split things up then I think they need to do it like they did with the nikon forums - have separate forums for the different bodies and also a separate "lens lust" forum where all of the lens posts go

as a side note did you know that NEX was originally meant to stand for "New E-Mount Experience"

if you think about that then the A7 and A7r are in fact NEX cameras because they offer the latest E-mount experience

Very interesting, especially your NEX explanation. In some ways it's too bad they didn't continue the NEX, but perhaps they will continue it with APSc continuations.

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1prime

forpetessake
forpetessake Veteran Member • Posts: 4,954
It would be better ...
4

... for all those who feel insecure and threatened by whatever new technological development to take their anti-anxiety medication and maybe abstain from posting on the forum until the full recovery.

djp58 Regular Member • Posts: 351
No, No, & NO
2

I'll add my no to this thread as I have to others.  I think it should stay E-mount, regardless of sensor size.  Most of the posters in this forum use many different lenses including legacy full frame lenses. I have an A7R pre-ordered, but will definitely keep my NEX 7.  I plan on getting the FE70-200f4 when it comes out, but will probably use it more on the NEX 7 than the A7R.  I would definitely prefer one forum where I can follow discussion across all of the E-mount offerings and issues.

David

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OP 1prime Senior Member • Posts: 1,108
Re: Anyone for separate FF & APSc DPR forums?

captura wrote:

1prime wrote:

Paul712 wrote:

I agree to separating A mount from E mount forum. I do not agree to splitting E mount forum into APSC and FF.

I like my NEX camera and plan to use both NEX and A7, sharing lenses across both cameras regardless lens type (APSC/FF) for economy and flexibility. I am sure there are many other users who may want to keep their NEX like me. Splitting the Forum into APSC and FF will mean we will have to search in two forums instead of a single E mount forum.

Paul

Paul, If and when you go A7, the expectations are you will want to avoid the E crop if possible with the eventual Alpha lenses that Sony should develop. This current stage is almost like the early NEX stage with a paucity of lenses. Henry seems to have an idea whereby posts with dual content can be directed to a dual forum. This would seem to avoid your and others' problems with 2 or 3 forums. It might require a little homework by DPR, but I'm sure they're up to it. Even if we don't go FF, it's not as if we're out of the photography equipment market.

Just as there already exists an "Open Talk Forum," this new dual forum could be called the "Sony Open Talk Forum" for interchange of ideas and discussions about ALL Sony cameras!

What do think, Don?

Steve, If you really want my opinion, I think three forums, that is, a FF, a NEX, and the third a dual or Open Talk, will dilute the posters. Two separate should suffice, and maintain open and lively separate FF & NEX talk. But that reflects my limited technical insight. If DPR saw fit, sure, put up a third Open Talk to discuss common issues. But it seems we have to convince DPR to at least go for two.  You're more experienced than me. Have you ever seen DPR step in and make such a change?  Don

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1prime

OP 1prime Senior Member • Posts: 1,108
Re: It would be better ...
1

forpetessake wrote:

... for all those who feel insecure and threatened by whatever new technological development to take their anti-anxiety medication and maybe abstain from posting on the forum until the full recovery.

A piece of hard candy will do, thank you. And it's difficult to abstain from posting after reading slams/posts such as yours. You can attempt to define the overwhelming and suppression of NEX posting as an insecurity if you wish, but that reflects your state of mind rather than mine.

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1prime

ottonis Contributing Member • Posts: 765
Re: No, No, & NO
2

The Cybershot forum does also comprise FF (RX1/r), 1" (RX100) and all the other small-sensor compacts all in one forum and people don't really complain.
The FF and APS-C E-mount cameras have so much more in common than the different cybershots, so it would only be consistent not to split the E-mount forum.

In an ideal world, every camera model and every lens would have their own forum, but this wohld lead to a monumental number of forums with a declining user base.
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SimonOL Senior Member • Posts: 1,780
Re: no

captura wrote:

SimonOL wrote:

I can't see any reason that APS-C camera owners should feel threatened by FF - it's only natural that A7/A7R threads are taking over at the moment simply because the product is new and is attracting interest from those who aren't regular visitors to the e-mount (NEX) forum. Hopefully this initial flurry of A7/A7R posts will gradually subside and things will return to a form of 'normal'.

I look forward to seeing lots of great photos from the 2 new cameras (maybe even with lenses that I actually own or am ever likely to get); precious little so far, but plenty of comparisons and arguing.

At this time, I'm tempted to agree that a separate forum would be good just to get away from this stuff...

but this can't go on forever (I hope).

Peace

Where have you been hiding, Simon?

I've been attacked in many many ways, by both some respected members and newbie trolls, for expressing my opinions.

I back the idea of separating FF from APS-C by 100%. Never wanted them together in the first place. This combination is even worse by far than the continuous on/off dual within the M43 forum.

No peace until you do this.

LOL

Not been hiding anywhere - read a few of the ridiculous comparison threads and even replied to a couple but now decided it's just not worth the bother trying to argue with closed minds and deeply entrenched positions/prejudice.

If we didn't rise to the 'challenges', such ridiculous posts would quickly fall off the page in the same way as many NEX related threads are currently. Sometimes it's best to take a step back and leave the provocateurs unsated.

I don't have a problem with A7/A7R threads talking about the features and abilities of the cameras (maybe with some photos!) and think that the balance will soon move in favour of these types of posts.

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jpr2 Forum Pro • Posts: 15,554
Simon: exactly - the very best course = IGNORE them

SimonOL wrote:

Not been hiding anywhere - read a few of the ridiculous comparison threads and even replied to a couple but now decided it's just not worth the bother trying to argue with closed minds and deeply entrenched positions/prejudice.

If we didn't rise to the 'challenges', such ridiculous posts would quickly fall off the page in the same way as many NEX related threads are currently. Sometimes it's best to take a step back and leave the provocateurs unsated.

however, there is a little hope for that - the claims of m4/3'ers are sometimes so very outlandish, and the more this is being pointed out to them the more they insist - just look at the recent proliferation of such invasions from just one single poster ("my OMG is better than FF" and... "should you not believe it you're just a fanboi" :LOL),

but YES, the best way would be to let them sauté quickly in their own juices alone

jpr2

SimonOL Senior Member • Posts: 1,780
Re: Simon: exactly - the very best course = IGNORE them

jpr2 wrote:

SimonOL wrote:

Not been hiding anywhere - read a few of the ridiculous comparison threads and even replied to a couple but now decided it's just not worth the bother trying to argue with closed minds and deeply entrenched positions/prejudice.

If we didn't rise to the 'challenges', such ridiculous posts would quickly fall off the page in the same way as many NEX related threads are currently. Sometimes it's best to take a step back and leave the provocateurs unsated.

however, there is a little hope for that - the claims of m4/3'ers are sometimes so very outlandish, and the more this is being pointed out to them the more they insist - just look at the recent proliferation of such invasions from just one single poster ("my OMG is better than FF" and... "should you not believe it you're just a fanboi" :LOL),

Thankfully, that thread has maxed-out and is fading away - who would have thought a few shots of a catalogue could provide so much 'debate'.

It's too tempting to get sucked-in to an argument with 'fanboys' with ideas set in concrete and whose minds will never be changed. There is nothing to be achieved by this IMO - all you get is anger and frustration so you give them exactly what they're looking for.

Playground stuff!

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jpr2 Forum Pro • Posts: 15,554
re: Simon: exactly - the very best course = IGNORE them

SimonOL wrote:

jpr2 wrote:

SimonOL wrote:

Not been hiding anywhere - read a few of the ridiculous comparison threads and even replied to a couple but now decided it's just not worth the bother trying to argue with closed minds and deeply entrenched positions/prejudice.

If we didn't rise to the 'challenges', such ridiculous posts would quickly fall off the page in the same way as many NEX related threads are currently. Sometimes it's best to take a step back and leave the provocateurs unsated.

however, there is a little hope for that - the claims of m4/3'ers are sometimes so very outlandish, and the more this is being pointed out to them the more they insist - just look at the recent proliferation of such invasions from just one single poster ("my OMG is better than FF" and... "should you not believe it you're just a fanboi" :LOL),

Thankfully, that thread has maxed-out and is fading away - who would have thought a few shots of a catalogue could provide so much 'debate'.

It's too tempting to get sucked-in to an argument with 'fanboys' with ideas set in concrete and whose minds will never be changed. There is nothing to be achieved by this IMO - all you get is anger and frustration so you give them exactly what they're looking for.

Playground stuff!

alas, alas but... NO = one maxed out and faded away, only to be immediately replaced by at least two others

jpr2

flyfisher99 Regular Member • Posts: 302
Re: Anyone for separate FF & APSc DPR forums?
2

Sonyshine wrote:

Yes please!

+1

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SimonOL Senior Member • Posts: 1,780
Re: re: Simon: exactly - the very best course = IGNORE them

jpr2 wrote:

SimonOL wrote:

Thankfully, that thread has maxed-out and is fading away - who would have thought a few shots of a catalogue could provide so much 'debate'.

It's too tempting to get sucked-in to an argument with 'fanboys' with ideas set in concrete and whose minds will never be changed. There is nothing to be achieved by this IMO - all you get is anger and frustration so you give them exactly what they're looking for.

Playground stuff!

alas, alas but... NO = one maxed out and faded away, only to be immediately replaced by at least two others

jpr2

Never been a fan of the max thread count on here, but it certainly has it's uses with these threads! They'll disappear soon (maybe not soon enough).

There's always the last resort 'ignore' button

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120 to 35 Senior Member • Posts: 1,277
Re: No, No, & NO

ottonis wrote:

The Cybershot forum does also comprise FF (RX1/r), 1" (RX100) and all the other small-sensor compacts all in one forum and people don't really complain.
The FF and APS-C E-mount cameras have so much more in common than the different cybershots, so it would only be consistent not to split the E-mount forum.

In an ideal world, every camera model and every lens would have their own forum, but this wohld lead to a monumental number of forums with a declining user base.
--
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Agreed. Forum members with some technical knowledge will be less likely to follow two forums and answer questions.

I have posted answers to issues related to shutter vibration, use of fill flash, wireless flash control, use of legacy lenses, etc. in relation to both NEX and A7. The information applies equally to APS-C and full frame cameras.

A few posters said questions about the NEX do not get enough attention. I have often looked at the list of threads and there was hardly any real question left unanswered.

(unknown member) Regular Member • Posts: 327
Nikon forums, they are already split and...
1

1prime wrote:

We've just about exhausted a lively interchange between FF & APSc advocates. At risk are some recognized solid DPR contributors. That thread is almost concluding, I think, before we start throwing our cameras at each other!

1prime

Saw this in the top threads. Nice idea, but...

Exhausted?  Sony just released the FF bodies, it is just starting, LOL, go look at the Nikon forums.  Splitting FF/APC will help a bit, but you will never stop the insecure people & their lively interchanges. (I love that term!!!) The APC users come to the FF forums whining, look at my APC it is the same as your FF. You also have the FF users that spent extra $ and realize it makes no difference for posting their pics to the web, headed to the APC forums saying FF is better. Lets not forget about DOF equivalence, diffraction, Hi-ISO comparisons, etc.

Then we have our extra special Pro DX (APC) forum where, at the moment, everyone just whines where is my D400?  (Pro sports APC body)

It is fun to watch, kind of like a train wreck happening, you cannot stop watching. HA-HA!

Actually I have learned over the last year or so how to spot the treads and just move on. Remember these are not photo furums, they are gear forums and the lively interchanges will rage on.

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Jason

Mel Snyder
Mel Snyder Veteran Member • Posts: 4,088
Re: Anyone for separate FF & APSc DPR forums?

captura wrote:

Mel Snyder wrote:

1prime wrote:

captura wrote:

blue_skies wrote:

1prime wrote:

We've just about exhausted a lively interchange between FF & APSc advocates. At risk are some recognized solid DPR contributors. That thread is almost concluding, I think, before we start throwing our cameras at each other!

So I'm throwing out an old proposal: Please DPR, separate us. Give the relatively new to A7&r, enthusiastic FFers their own forum so they can learn about their new systems. Hey, I understand how they want to preen over their A7r's treatment of eyes. "Eye" would too if I ponied up a couple of grand or more. The A7&r are great Sony developments, but they're not for everyone.

At the same time, some of us orphaned Sony NEXers want to communicate and learn more about our systems without being continually put down. We'd like our thoughts and questions to carry for a few minutes on DPR before plummeting off the page with FF posts. It's been suggested we post some pics, only to watch our lesser MPed pics plummet to the bottom for a similar cause.

So DPReview, why don't you review your decision to keep us together? I initially saw your and Sony's logic that we NEXers might, and many did, jump to the new A7&r. But at this point, I really think most of us have made our decision whether to go FF or remain with our NEX systems. I respectfully recommend we have 2 forums, one for FF and one for NEX.

Yes, I agree - FF and APS-C for Sony makes sense. But it would make for four Sony forums:

  • A-mount/APS-C (SLT)
  • E-mount/APS-C (Nex)

and

  • A-mount/FF (A99 and new A-FF cameras)
  • E-mount/FF (A7/r - possibly move RX1/R here too?)

Additionally, I vote for one more option:

move all comparison posts to a 'comparison forum'. Have an autobot pick up threads that start comparisons and move them automatically.

I think you should just give the FF A7 thing over to the SLT-Alpha forum. They've been salivating over it for months, now, and that's where it belongs.

Steve, I think I'd vote your way. But we should expect a huge gust of protest. For some reason the FFers want their cake and NEX too. They don't seem to understand that the NEXers are drowning here now, and need an outstretched forum.

In many ways I like Henry's plan, but I had trouble realizing how his essential "comparison forum" would work. But Henry must be clear on his or that "autobot pick up thread." If such a thread could work and if DPR could materialize it, please excuse my tripping over your vote, but I'd have to go Henry's way. Such is inspiration.

It would be interesting if DPR would ever enter into this discussion. I'm afraid most of the "nos" represent FF users or expectant users. But we have some APSc guys wanting to stay the same. Don

I expect I will eventually go to the A7 or A7i, or some advanced version (A9?) or an APS-C version of the A7 with the new sensor from the A3000.

But right now, I love my NEX-6 and share the point that there is WAY too much A7/A7i stuff here. The camera has barely arrived in the USA - and it seems the overwhelming number of posts deal with it.

It's going to sink the forum. For the vast majority of us, the A7 is - at best - an "aspirational" product that won't be under our Christmas trees or in our Easter baskets, for years, if ever.

But you would not know that from the forum. I keep thinking that the A7 is to Sony NEX people what sex is to teenage boys - if they had to cut their sex life in half, they'd have to choose between thinking about sex and talking about sex

Mel, I suppose that means that when you cut one A7 FF camera in half you'd end up with two half-frame cameras? Hmmmm..

No, Steve, because for most forum members posting here, there's no A7 to cut in half!  1/2 x0=0

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edwardaneal
edwardaneal Veteran Member • Posts: 9,101
bet on it - NEX is only a name
1

1prime wrote:

Very interesting, especially your NEX explanation. In some ways it's too bad they didn't continue the NEX, but perhaps they will continue it with APSc continuations.

I would bet money there are going to be plenty of new E-mount APS-c cameras. the fact they won't put the "NEX" name on them is meaningless - all of the "NEX" cameras have always been branded "alpha" as well - these are just silly names and they don't matter, what is clear with the new A7 and A7r is that Sony is making a serious commitment to mirror less E-mount cameras and this is good for all of us because it pretty much guarantees a more complete line of higher quality lenses that will be usable regardless of the sensor size in the E-mount camera you happen to use.

NEX is nothing but a name - E-mount on the other hand is actually a physical thing, a lens mount design. Dropping the NEX name on future cameras change nothing that is important - we should just be very grateful that they didn't change the lens mount - - that would have really left us in the cold

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captura Forum Pro • Posts: 26,977
Re: Anyone for separate FF & APSc DPR forums?

1prime wrote:

captura wrote:

1prime wrote:

Paul712 wrote:

I agree to separating A mount from E mount forum. I do not agree to splitting E mount forum into APSC and FF.

I like my NEX camera and plan to use both NEX and A7, sharing lenses across both cameras regardless lens type (APSC/FF) for economy and flexibility. I am sure there are many other users who may want to keep their NEX like me. Splitting the Forum into APSC and FF will mean we will have to search in two forums instead of a single E mount forum.

Paul

Paul, If and when you go A7, the expectations are you will want to avoid the E crop if possible with the eventual Alpha lenses that Sony should develop. This current stage is almost like the early NEX stage with a paucity of lenses. Henry seems to have an idea whereby posts with dual content can be directed to a dual forum. This would seem to avoid your and others' problems with 2 or 3 forums. It might require a little homework by DPR, but I'm sure they're up to it. Even if we don't go FF, it's not as if we're out of the photography equipment market.

Just as there already exists an "Open Talk Forum," this new dual forum could be called the "Sony Open Talk Forum" for interchange of ideas and discussions about ALL Sony cameras!

What do think, Don?

Steve, If you really want my opinion, I think three forums, that is, a FF, a NEX, and the third a dual or Open Talk, will dilute the posters. Two separate should suffice, and maintain open and lively separate FF & NEX talk. But that reflects my limited technical insight. If DPR saw fit, sure, put up a third Open Talk to discuss common issues. But it seems we have to convince DPR to at least go for two. You're more experienced than me. Have you ever seen DPR step in and make such a change? Don

Can't say that I have, Don. Just for clarification, there are currently I believe 3 Sony-based forums so that would mean either 4 or 5, depending on how you divide it.

Steve

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